60 fps is a big one also.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
- Start date
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Would be surprised if Totk doesnt get better draw distance, lighting, shadows and textures as well on Drake.
I could see extra graphical features on Drake versions of Nintendo games,
I really like the idea of bringing camera and mic features back to the console as well, maybe then we can get a proper WarioWare game.
I would also really like them to work out a way to bring Nintendoland back, a way to have the switch show on the TV without needing to dock it.
I really like the idea of bringing camera and mic features back to the console as well, maybe then we can get a proper WarioWare game.
I would also really like them to work out a way to bring Nintendoland back, a way to have the switch show on the TV without needing to dock it.
Simba1
Bob-omb
True, but I personally dont expecting 60 FPS.
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also nintendogs
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I’d see them hitting 4K/60fps before I see them doing anything else to the visuals for TotK. I won’t be shocked if they can’t hit it, but I am expecting it.
Simba1
Bob-omb
Everything is possible with new much stronger and more technically advance hardware, compared to base Switch games,
but Nintendo usually not pushing 60 FPS with new Zelda games.
Cuzizkool
Shriekbat
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YES! Since cameras/mics have been around since the DSi and even the WiiU, I thought all Nintendo products would have them from then on. But Switch bucked the trend.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
Yes, that's true. But my point was that BOTW was made with Wii U hardware in mind, so the entire engine was made for Wii U. This will be improved in ToTK for Switch and Drake of course but the game will not look drastically different on Switch or Drake was my point. Yes, better draw distance, textures etc. but the main game will still keep the same overall look, I have no doubt that it will still look very good on base Switch. And for the Zelda delay and Drake launch, I still don't really think these two things are tied together as much as people thing. If ToTK was planned for 2022 and Drake was 2023 for a while? I can't imagine a scenario when OLED launched and just a year later a wastly upgraded model is released.
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They’ve literally never been in this position for a new Zelda title tho. Cross-gen releases like Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild couldn’t hit 60fps on Wii and Switch respectively.
They do see value in hitting 60fps at Nintendo. Skyward Sword HD is 60fps, Link’s Awakening Remake is mostly 60fps - plenty of other titles target it as well. You’re right in that new Zelda releases tend to prioritize resolution, and we’re seeing that with TotK inevitably targeting 1080p/30fps on Switch. But this new hardware is providing them a unique opportunity to hit those higher performance targets on day 1 on top of the existing visuals.
Just my two cents.
Simba1
Bob-omb
That true, but my point still stands, and yes Nintendo always prioritize visuals (not resolution only) with new Zelda games compared to frame rate.
But like I wrote, everything is possible with new much stronger and more technically advance hardware, compared to base Switch game,
but I personally dont expecting 60 FPS (like be to be wrong).
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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We do, it’s on the 8nm node from Samsung.
But the thing at 15 watts only has 4 cores clocked to 1.4GHz and only 4SMs (2TPCs) online clocked to 624MHz along with a couple other automotive stuff on, others off.
Just wanted to say thank you to @oldpuck for the excellent summary post. Really helped me get my head around what all the numbers mean.
You know, I honestly don't think they do. Especially if the plan is to treat the Switch ecosystem more like iOS than like classical discrete gaming generations. They could probably say "Yo here's the next Switch! It's called Switch Ultra, games run better, some exclusives, out next month preorder now." Not sure about the logistics of that in terms of leaks and supplies and so on; but in terms of getting the message to people who might buy one I don't see why it wouldn't work.
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It does work. The PS4 Pro was announced in September and released in November. Of course, we all (meaning us nerds on the internet who follow this stuff) knew it was coming ahead of time, in the same way we know the new Switch hardware is coming now.
The fastest turnarounds ever I think are for the DSi and DSi LL. The DSi was announced October 2 and released November 1. The DSi LL was announced October 29 the following year, and released November 21. It’s hard to imagine a much faster turnaround than that. I’m expecting a little bit more time between the new Switch hardware announcement and its release – it’ll be an international launch and they’ll also want to announce it a little further out to avoid leaks – but two months or so seems doable.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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I think even if they announce this thing only two or three months ahead of time they're going to sell every single one they ship. The question mark is how much of an impact it'll have on the rest of the line-up. I'm sure they've modeled the hell out of it internally.
Right, in that case I expect they'll do that then. This isn't an end Wii U situation, where they urgently need to drum up attention for the Switch. Unless there's no backwards compatibility and they're launching a whole new brand, they can probably just keep the momentum rolling.
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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If you really want to get more technical about this reveal to release cadence with successors, Nintendo revealed the Nintendo Switch officially October 2016 and released it officially March 2017. That is only six months of reveal to release, but they started doing the mass advertising somewhere in between that period I think, someone correct me if I’m wrong. I suppose the initial reveal was the mass advertising? Who knows?
If anyone thinks that Nintendo needs a year, a year, to announce the product, advertise it and release it needs to get with the program.
It’s 2022 not 2002.
What worked for the DS to 3DS (plot twist: it almost didn’t) ain’t gonna work here.
The Nintendo Wii U was revealed E3 2011, and released end of 2012. That’s overkill.
If anyone thinks that Nintendo needs a year, a year, to announce the product, advertise it and release it needs to get with the program.
It’s 2022 not 2002.
What worked for the DS to 3DS (plot twist: it almost didn’t) ain’t gonna work here.
The Nintendo Wii U was revealed E3 2011, and released end of 2012. That’s overkill.
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I'm a bit pessimistic, too, but using 60 as a selling point for Skyward Sword HD, when they couldn't be bothered to for WW or TP, is a step in the right direction.
Link_enfant
Fashion Dreamer
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3 months would feel right imo, between reveal and release. Maybe slightly more or less but they need a bit of time to market it properly, and let people know it's not "another Switch version" but a real upgrade, whether they choose to present it as a "pro" or a "successor", and even with a possible gimmick, they can't avoid that imo.
And that's why I'm so impatient for a reveal, cause it's been so long since Nintendo announced a new console by focusing - at least to some degree - on power.
And that's why I'm so impatient for a reveal, cause it's been so long since Nintendo announced a new console by focusing - at least to some degree - on power.
mjayer
Moblin
Assuming production started after the release of BOTW, they’ve been working on this new one for 5 years. They use their own custom game engines for Zelda and with 5 years of working on the game I’m guessing the engine resembles little of what it did when it was built for Wii U, which likely took less time. Also considering what fan community has down emulating the game it doesn’t seem unreasonable to expect Nintendo to do cool things with it on drake.
I guess your right in that it will look similar with the same art style but that says little about how hard it will push drake. 720/30 vs 4K/60 is a pretty big deal. Better draw distances, and perhaps better lighting/shadows too. It may not be a night and day difference to most but I think those with an eye for it will say differently.
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Didn't they talk as early as 2015 about working on a new system with the NX codename?
Yeah, it was at the press conference when they announced DeNA partnership and their mobile games finally coming.
But if was more in a "see, we're not leaving dedicated gaming hardware and going full mobile" kind of way
A Link Between Worlds was also 60fps.
If Nintendo-s new console is half of what people expect it to be, not having a 60fps mode for Zelda TikTok would be a damn shame.
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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I said officially revealed, you had no idea what NX was until they showed you it in 2016
It’s like using project codenames that Microsoft has such Belfry mentioned in 2017 and the game ends up being something called Extreme MotherShip Blasters 12 shown in 2021 E3 and released Q1 2022.
And then saying “this was revealed in 2017”
Like no it wasn’t, no one knew what Belfry even was.
It was revealed in 2021 and released in 2022.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
I think it would be a better idea to launch this in late 2023 with a new 3D Mario game.
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Easy easy, i was just asking because i thought to remember that they were talking pretty early on about working on new hardware, which was unusual for them iirc. ^^
Z0m3le
Bob-omb
Why do you think that?
Personally, I feel like they should have had this and zelda ready for holiday 2021, which could have helped them avoid the decline in sales that happened last year going from nearly 28M units to 23M and then this year targeting 21M and generally believing they will fall short of that.
ShaunSwitch
Moblin
I don't imagine a lot of people will agree with me here but I think Nintendo may even have added RTXGI to the Drake version of ToTK.
I know many of you have seen unnoficial CEMU RTX patches for BOTW and how they utterly transform the game. Now imagine the contrast between the Mariko and Drake versions of this new title if Nintendo internal studios implement Ray tracing.
It would be such a massive difference when shown side by side combined with DLSS that I think everyone who sees it will want the new hardware as soon as possible.
What better way to launch your new powerful hardware? The only question is whether they could achieve it in the time frame given. Zelda has had several delays, maybe one was for this purpose and they ring fenced a team to work on this aspect. Who knows? But a fan can dream and if I really wanted to land my new console with a huge impact and have everyone chomping at the bit for one, this is exactly how I would do it.
I know many of you have seen unnoficial CEMU RTX patches for BOTW and how they utterly transform the game. Now imagine the contrast between the Mariko and Drake versions of this new title if Nintendo internal studios implement Ray tracing.
It would be such a massive difference when shown side by side combined with DLSS that I think everyone who sees it will want the new hardware as soon as possible.
What better way to launch your new powerful hardware? The only question is whether they could achieve it in the time frame given. Zelda has had several delays, maybe one was for this purpose and they ring fenced a team to work on this aspect. Who knows? But a fan can dream and if I really wanted to land my new console with a huge impact and have everyone chomping at the bit for one, this is exactly how I would do it.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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I do think a large part of that is just the result of bonkers pandemic sales leveling out as things begin to open up, and chip shortages and shipping troubles hurting manufacturing output. The demand is still there. Those numbers are, objectively, extremely good.
Z0m3le
Bob-omb
Absolutely, but Drake would be a whole new product line, so Nintendo could produce millions of more Switches, they'd be able to still produce those 23M TX1 Switch units, but an additional 5M+ Drake units could have also launched last holiday, could have also really helped Pokemon Legends look much better (4K emulation does improve the image quality of the textures dramatically in that game).
Drake has been in development for over 3 years at this point, there should have been plenty of time to add graphical features to TotK, in fact original BotW took about 50 months of full time development, from Jan 2013 to March 2017, meanwhile TotK started as BotW DLC in 2017 and is going to take around 70 months to complete development. That is built on top of a lot of BotW systems, frankly this is the biggest development cycle we have ever seen for a Zelda game I think, so graphical upgrades should be expected IMO.
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Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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do you really???? it's a hybrid
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The yellow Switch lite is so cute tho <3
Don’t judge me. It was yellow. We yellow fans never get yellow systems
Since the OLED came out I’ve put the Lite on the shelf, though. The OLED screen is just too nice, even if it is heavier.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Switch Lite is for bus commutes.
Switch is for train and plane commutes.
Steam Deck is when I'm transported as cargo for the war effort.
It's all about the aesthetic.
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Draw distance is a big one. Imagine how much better it could look when you're jumping through the clouds and first see Hyrule below
Mr.Gamerson
Octorok
Nintendo knows the crazies will be ready to purchase the system as soon a legitimate leak comes out, and those are the people likely to snatch up a pre-order anyway. It doesn't matter if a more casual user only has small window to know of the system, since they likely won't go through the trouble of getting a system day one. Most of us who really want a system day one already has some money stashed away or are saving for a potential 2023 H1 release.
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"See that mountain over there? You can jump from the sky and land there!"
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Exactly! The Switch Lite is
aestheticIf I want to take my Switch with me in my froggy ita bag I have to take the joy-cons off to make it fit (gross!). But the Switch Lite is like a little clutch, it fits in anything. Okay, ironically not that froggy ita bag. But anything else!
All this conversation is doing is making me want to switch back to my Switch Lite.
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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Oh I wasn’t trying to be rude, this is just how I talk
[insert smiling discord emote here]
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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I see what you're saying now. Agreed!
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ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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HOW DARE YOU
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HOW DARE YOU
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
I don’t think this follows.
Nintendo clearly wanted this out earlier or they wouldn’t have announced in 2019. The length of the development cycle doesn’t say there is plenty of time to do an upgraded port to new hardware in parallel with development of the primary game. It implies the opposite - that the dev team has been fully on simply delivering the base game.
Nintendo announced for this year. They were likely intending to launch pre-Drake, which would have given the dev team time to do an upgrade while working on DLC. But they didn't make it, again, implying that they dev team is busy making the game itself. The last time Zelda was delayed again and again until it bumped up against a new hardware release was... Breath of the Wild, which has nearly imperceptible improvements on Switch.
Which is not to say that graphical upgrades aren't possible - just that the lengthy development cycle in the face of a global pandemic doesn't say we should expect it. As you point out, this is following on from a Wii U game, down to the assets, and a perceptible graphical upgrade will likely take asset work in addition to engine development
Yuzu and Ryujinx both support anisotropic filtering up to 16x. Increasing the resolution scale to 4k or higher doesn't improve the in-game textures.
AF is what's responsible for this trickery AND most likely, what you saw was someone using a texture pack replacing the awful textures in that game (which people also did for sword and shield).
Here's a good comparison (scroll down for images):
Progress Report March 2020 · yuzu
How are you doing in this quarantine, yuzu fans? We hope you are all staying in your homes safe and sound. Today, we are bringing you a report on a few changes from the past month for both the Early Access and regular Mainline versions of yuzu.
This is ridiculously underwhelming, specially for a recent ARM SoC. The automotive-related components must be utilizing a good chunk of that power limit budget...
I think this has been discussed a couple pages ago but anyways:
How likely is this upcoming device to support not gigabit ethernet (let's be real here) but at the very least, ~200MBit/s+ down wifi (which most phones nowadays already do when connected to a 5GHz wifi network).
Also, how likely is nintendo to actually ship the thing with new firmware instead of re-utilizing the current switch's ?
Hopefully they finally fix that miserable networking. It's 2022, I shouldn't be setting up DMZ for a wireless device, let alone messing with ports.
How likely is this upcoming device to support not gigabit ethernet (let's be real here) but at the very least, ~200MBit/s+ down wifi (which most phones nowadays already do when connected to a 5GHz wifi network).
Also, how likely is nintendo to actually ship the thing with new firmware instead of re-utilizing the current switch's ?
Hopefully they finally fix that miserable networking. It's 2022, I shouldn't be setting up DMZ for a wireless device, let alone messing with ports.
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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If you go into the link and see, you can see that some of them are disabled, and even the increase in power from enabling some of them relative to the whole thing doesn’t seem to be that much. This is why I have doubts that this is on the 8 nm because the performance profile just does not line up correctly.
For example, the 15W config has 4C + 4SMs online, 1DLA and 0 PVA cores. But it has the Falcon core, the PVA VPS and PVA AXI cores enabled.
The DLA core is clocked to 614MHz in both the 20 and 15W mode. So this probably didn’t increase it by much.
The 20W has the PVA VPS, Falcon and AXI increase in clock frequency by a noticeable degree, but they aren’t contributing to a lot in the watts it seems as it only increased by 5W for the whole 20W config.
Said config does have 6 CPU cores and 8SMs on though
Again, on the 8nm node.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
I ran through the Orin docs and did some back of the envelope math. The ARM cores in Orin are Cortex-A878AE, the automotive variant, and essentially have twice the power draw of the basic variant. The DLA and PVA eat maybe a third of that 15W budget, and then the rest is the TPCs.
This is what convinced me that Drake couldn't be Samsung 8nm.
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