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StarTopic Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST3| Speculate Chronicles 3

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It's a miracle Star Fox Adventures turned out as well as it did given its developmental issues and how rushed it was. What's interesting is that with the late N64 build leak, we see that the final game is not terribly different from the original design, and that some issues people had (especially the General Scales fake out fight) are in the original game as well. In fact, iirc, Scales has more screentime in Adventures than he did in Dinosaur Planet.

The biggest loss with Dinosaur Plant's transition into Adventures is that they made Krystal into a damsel instead of a co-protagonist. She should've been Fox's partner throughout the whole game. Another letdown is that David Wise didn't re-use this amazing DKC-style atmospheric track in Adventures:

 
Dardan Sandiego said:
PKBkf86.jpg


never forget what nintendo took from us
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One of the worst rebrandings ever. This series could have been something special. Even though I think the game still came out well enough they clearly set the game up to fail with peoples expectations going into it. It should never have had the star Fox brand attached to it at all. As a young kid I remember getting frustrated and dropping it because “you aren’t allowed to use your blaster Fox because reasons“ annoyed me so much.
 
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Was Star Fox Adventures really set up for failure? I actually how successful or unsuccessful the game was in terms of sales. Most of the criticisms I've read about the game isn't because it wasn't a great Star Fox game oddly enough, it was because it was an inferior Zelda game. I don't think the branding of Dinosaur Planet would have helped from a gameplay standpoint.
 
HockeyBird said:
Was Star Fox Adventures really set up for failure? I actually how successful or unsuccessful the game was in terms of sales. Most of the criticisms I've read about the game isn't because it wasn't a great Star Fox game oddly enough, it was because it was an inferior Zelda game. I don't think the branding of Dinosaur Planet would have helped from a gameplay standpoint.
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Right but instead of just thinking “how do we make this the best Zelda clone ever“ they had to think every step of the way “how do we make this work somewhat as a Starfox game” which was a completely unnecessary burden on the devs that I can’t imagine is something they were super thrilled about having to go through based on the main character looking somewhat like Fox.
 
HockeyBird said:
Was Star Fox Adventures really set up for failure? I actually how successful or unsuccessful the game was in terms of sales. Most of the criticisms I've read about the game isn't because it wasn't a great Star Fox game oddly enough, it was because it was an inferior Zelda game. I don't think the branding of Dinosaur Planet would have helped from a gameplay standpoint.
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It was the 11th or 13th best selling game on the GameCube with close to 2million units sold. And no, it wasn’t set up for failure. It just wasn’t developed as a Starfox game initially and once the change was made to SF at the suggestion of Miyamoto, a lot of things had to be changed and things were added in like the Arwing segments and… well the ending lol

It does serve though as a pretty good “Zelda clone” imo. Not the best, but not bad either for it being Rare’s first (and only) attempt at it. Had it remained as Dinosaur Planet and that extra time and resources poured into that as opposed to the new Starfox stuff, it could have easily been amongst Rare’s all-time greats.
 
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I will also go to bat and say I thought Star Fox Assault was a good game that could have led to an excellent sequel if they refined the formula. Instead we got whatever in God's name Command was which iced the series for a decade.
 
Miraj said:
It's a miracle Star Fox Adventures turned out as well as it did given its developmental issues and how rushed it was. What's interesting is that with the late N64 build leak, we see that the final game is not terribly different from the original design, and that some issues people had (especially the General Scales fake out fight) are in the original game as well. In fact, iirc, Scales has more screentime in Adventures than he did in Dinosaur Planet.

The biggest loss with Dinosaur Plant's transition into Adventures is that they made Krystal into a damsel instead of a co-protagonist. She should've been Fox's partner throughout the whole game. Another letdown is that David Wise didn't re-use this amazing DKC-style atmospheric track in Adventures:

Click to expand...


Most of the wistful thoughts about Dinosaur Planet are based on having played Star Fox Adventures, remembering what kinds of games Rare used to do back in the day and thinking "what if?". Seeing as Banjo-Kazooie, their take on "Mario", turned out fantastic, it's easy to imagine their take on Zelda being similarly great. But alas, reality is often disappointing (like Star Fox Adventures).
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
Most of the wistful thoughts about Dinosaur Planet are based on having played Star Fox Adventures, remembering what kinds of games Rare used to do back in the day and thinking "what if?". Seeing as Banjo-Kazooie, their take on "Mario", turned out fantastic, it's easy to imagine their take on Zelda being similarly great. But alas, reality is often disappointing (like Star Fox Adventures).
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I don't think Adventures was disappointing. I got it and Metroid Prime with my Gamecube for Christmas in 2002 and loved the hell out of both of them. I also wasn't an N64 kid, so I didn't have this strong attachment to Rare or Star Fox 64 that a lot of people had. Sure, I played some of those games (especially Goldeneye) at friend's houses, but I was a Playstation owner primarily. Adventures was also called a Zelda clone, but at the time it was the only Ocarina of Time-style game I can think of (Wind Waker came out afterwards), so I was fine with it scratching that Zelda itch in the meantime. The team that made it was also effectively a B-Team at Rare made up of younger inexperienced staffers (asides from Bayliss and Wise), from what I recall.
 
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OK

After wishing on a Monkey's Paw for a full Metroid Prime remake to release this year, Miyamoto appears to you in the night. He tells you that, for your wish to come true, you must make a choice, and that if you refuse to choose, the game will be cancelled. Whichever choice you choose will be implemented into the game forever.

These are the two choices:

A
Changing beams can only be done by doing the associated hand gesture under the Joy-Con's infra-red sensor
Shooting missiles can only be done by drawing a line (touch in handheld, motion in docked) from the end of Samus' gun to the thing you want to shoot
The morph ball is controlled like the rolling ball from Super Mario Galaxy

B
All music tracks have the 'BAH BAH!' sounds from the New Super Mario Bros. series play
Samus literally says "pew pew," when she shoots her weapon
Every single asset has had a Borderlands-esque outline drawn around it
 
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Star Fox Adventures sold 1.8m which is a decline from SF64's 4m and SF1's 3m sales. But I think that can be explained by Gamecube software not selling as well as software on N64 and SNES.

Star Fox Assault in comparison didn't reach the million mark although we don't know how far away it was. The game released in early 2005 though which by that point the Gamecube was losing steam.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
PKBkf86.jpg


never forget what nintendo took from us
Click to expand...
I’m not entirely convinced that Miyamoto forced Rare to StarFoxify the game, rather that Rare might’ve thought that it would probably sell more.

So many things had to be cut. I remember back in the N64 era, Rare said that the game would take around 40 to 50 hours to 100% complete and when StarFox Adventures came, it took me 12 hours to 100%, I was so disappointed (and young so I didn’t knew Dinosaur Planet had so much more content than the final game).

The Dinosaur Planet community restored so much of the game with patches, extraction, even made a complete 3D world map to freely explore in your browser (and yep, it is BIG). How big ? Well, a massive part of the game is in one giant map.

I’ve said it before but the amount of cut content cannot be overstated, especially when Krystal was the main character and Fox / Sabre died during the story (he comes back thanks to time travel but still, he dies). There was also religious themes, a bad ending and lots and lots of other things (Drakor actually talks, have motivations, a background and a boss battle that isn’t « shoot till he’s dead ».




Drakor’s Boss Theme in Dinosaur Planet (keep in mind that he wasn’t the final boss)
 
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Plum said:
OK

After wishing on a Monkey's Paw for a full Metroid Prime remake to release this year, Miyamoto appears to you in the night. He tells you that you must make a choice, and that if you do not choose the game will be cancelled. Whichever choice you choose will be implemented into the game forever.

These are the two choices:

A
Changing beams can only be done by doing the associated hand gesture under the Joy-Con's infra-red sensor
Shooting missiles can only be done by drawing a line (touch in handheld, motion in docked) from the end of Samus' gun to the thing you want to shoot
The morph ball is controlled like the rolling ball from Super Mario Galaxy

B
All music tracks have the 'BAH BAH!' sounds from the New Super Mario Bros. series play
Samus literally says "pew pew," when she shoots her weapon
Every single asset has had a Borderlands-esque outline drawn around it
Click to expand...
The practical part of me would just cancel the whole project. The fun part of me wants to see the absolute nightmare that would come from Option B.
 
Plum said:
OK

After wishing on a Monkey's Paw for a full Metroid Prime remake to release this year, Miyamoto appears to you in the night. He tells you that you must make a choice, and that if you do not choose the game will be cancelled. Whichever choice you choose will be implemented into the game forever.

These are the two choices:

A
Changing beams can only be done by doing the associated hand gesture under the Joy-Con's infra-red sensor
Shooting missiles can only be done by drawing a line (touch in handheld, motion in docked) from the end of Samus' gun to the thing you want to shoot
The morph ball is controlled like the rolling ball from Super Mario Galaxy

B
All music tracks have the 'BAH BAH!' sounds from the New Super Mario Bros. series play
Samus literally says "pew pew," when she shoots her weapon
Every single asset has had a Borderlands-esque outline drawn around it
Click to expand...
I don't know why Miyamoto is responsible for this but I'll go with B because at least it wouldn't be physically painful to play.
 
Plum said:
OK

After wishing on a Monkey's Paw for a full Metroid Prime remake to release this year, Miyamoto appears to you in the night. He tells you that, for you wish to come true, you must make a choice, and that if you refuse to choose, the game will be cancelled. Whichever choice you choose will be implemented into the game forever.

These are the two choices:

A
Changing beams can only be done by doing the associated hand gesture under the Joy-Con's infra-red sensor
Shooting missiles can only be done by drawing a line (touch in handheld, motion in docked) from the end of Samus' gun to the thing you want to shoot
The morph ball is controlled like the rolling ball from Super Mario Galaxy

B
All music tracks have the 'BAH BAH!' sounds from the New Super Mario Bros. series play
Samus literally says "pew pew," when she shoots her weapon
Every single asset has had a Borderlands-esque outline drawn around it
Click to expand...
based soulful motion controls vs cringe soulless audiovisual experience. A easily
 
Soul Skater said:
Right but instead of just thinking “how do we make this the best Zelda clone ever“ they had to think every step of the way “how do we make this work somewhat as a Starfox game” which was a completely unnecessary burden on the devs that I can’t imagine is something they were super thrilled about having to go through based on the main character looking somewhat like Fox.
Click to expand...

It's been a long time since I played Star Fox Adventures and I was just burrowing it from a friend for a few days but I don't recall it trying to be overtly a Starfox game in terms of gameplay. You had a few on rails sections Arwing and that was basically it. Everything else was purely a Zelda-style adventure. Basically a 95% to 5% split between adventure and traditional Star Fox.

I'm just not convinced that the game being Dinosaur Planet would have ultimately changed the reception to the game. People also forget that Rare at the time was already being drained of its top talent. The games they made were Grabbed by the Ghoulies, a remake of Conker, Kameo, and Perfect Dark Zero. None of these were critical darlings. I think people like to put the blame on Nintendo for making it a Star Fox game but it didn't change the fact that the developer making the game was bleeding talent and on the tail end of its golden age.
 
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If we only get the direct next week, I wouldn't mind getting an indie world in the meantime. I'm still midly bothered we have seemingly lost the "April-August-December" yearly pattern.
 
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Rare themselves actually were on-board with the decision to combine Star Fox and Dinosaur Planet ftr



Miyamoto didn't force it on them, he just gave them an offer and they said yes. Again, the problem is that the game was already going through a grueling development cycle and the Microsoft buyout forced them to rush it out.

Joe said:
I will also go to bat and say I thought Star Fox Assault was a good game that could have led to an excellent sequel if they refined the formula. Instead we got whatever in God's name Command was which iced the series for a decade.
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Command really didn't ice Star Fox lol. A Star Fox game didn't happen on Wii because Miyamoto/Nintendo didn't have enough ideas for it or whatever. As I posted some pages back, Nintendo also originally wanted to produce an all new Star Fox game on 3DS, it just ended up becoming a simple remake of 64 because the higher ups wanted something that'd release very quickly in the 3DS' launch year.

iwataasks.nintendo.com

Iwata Asks - Nintendo 3DS - Page 6

Read the in-depth interview conducted by former Nintendo Global President Satoru Iwata.
iwataasks.nintendo.com iwataasks.nintendo.com
0nglg3t0ggl91.png

As as mentioned in the first link above, Zero happened because Miyamoto was experimenting with prototypes to justify the Wii U gamepad and he came up with the two screens shooting gimmick, and he thought Star Fox was a good fit for it.

That's the type of franchise Star Fox really is lmao
 
Plum said:
OK

After wishing on a Monkey's Paw for a full Metroid Prime remake to release this year, Miyamoto appears to you in the night. He tells you that, for you wish to come true, you must make a choice, and that if you refuse to choose, the game will be cancelled. Whichever choice you choose will be implemented into the game forever.

These are the two choices:

A
Changing beams can only be done by doing the associated hand gesture under the Joy-Con's infra-red sensor
Shooting missiles can only be done by drawing a line (touch in handheld, motion in docked) from the end of Samus' gun to the thing you want to shoot
The morph ball is controlled like the rolling ball from Super Mario Galaxy

B
All music tracks have the 'BAH BAH!' sounds from the New Super Mario Bros. series play
Samus literally says "pew pew," when she shoots her weapon
Every single asset has had a Borderlands-esque outline drawn around it
Click to expand...
Cancel It. Burn it, even. Throw it all away. It's not worth it. Not for this.
 
Plum said:
OK

After wishing on a Monkey's Paw for a full Metroid Prime remake to release this year, Miyamoto appears to you in the night. He tells you that, for you wish to come true, you must make a choice, and that if you refuse to choose, the game will be cancelled. Whichever choice you choose will be implemented into the game forever.

These are the two choices:

A
Changing beams can only be done by doing the associated hand gesture under the Joy-Con's infra-red sensor
Shooting missiles can only be done by drawing a line (touch in handheld, motion in docked) from the end of Samus' gun to the thing you want to shoot
The morph ball is controlled like the rolling ball from Super Mario Galaxy

B
All music tracks have the 'BAH BAH!' sounds from the New Super Mario Bros. series play
Samus literally says "pew pew," when she shoots her weapon
Every single asset has had a Borderlands-esque outline drawn around it
Click to expand...
I don't know why you wouldn't want Samus going "pew pew" every time she used her weapon.
 
JetstreamRorschach said:
Funny thing is, that's pretty much what I said when I made this.

Now it feels like it was ages ago, but the wait was well worthwhile as Dread was incredible.

If only the same could be said about Castlevania...
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Thank you for making such an amazing picture. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of it.
 
Plum said:
OK

After wishing on a Monkey's Paw for a full Metroid Prime remake to release this year, Miyamoto appears to you in the night. He tells you that, for you wish to come true, you must make a choice, and that if you refuse to choose, the game will be cancelled. Whichever choice you choose will be implemented into the game forever.

These are the two choices:

A
Changing beams can only be done by doing the associated hand gesture under the Joy-Con's infra-red sensor
Shooting missiles can only be done by drawing a line (touch in handheld, motion in docked) from the end of Samus' gun to the thing you want to shoot
The morph ball is controlled like the rolling ball from Super Mario Galaxy

B
All music tracks have the 'BAH BAH!' sounds from the New Super Mario Bros. series play
Samus literally says "pew pew," when she shoots her weapon
Every single asset has had a Borderlands-esque outline drawn around it
Click to expand...
Option C:

Only controller option is ring fit. Literally have to somersault to use the morphball and every shot is a squeeze on the ring con.
 
Magic-Man said:
Real talk though, if a new 3D Mario isn't at least teased during this Direct I highly doubt the next game will come to Switch. We're running out of time.
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at this point I'd go as far as to say that a 3D Mario on Switch would be a misstep

Mario moves hardware
 
Raccoon said:
than raccoons? yeah, I'd say so. they're a lot less meddlesome in people's lives lol

having a tanuki in your house is a very different experience than having a raccoon in your house

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I shit you not, this is the ad I got with that video:
zBHgs4I.png

@Derachi do you work for the youtubs or something?
 
Joe said:
I was thinking that it would be great to have a general Metroid thread on Famiboards.

Metroid just might be my favorite game series to dsicuss.
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I coulda sworn we had a general Metroid ST but I just searched and we don't.

I'm kinda shocked about that.
 
Soul Skater said:
Right but instead of just thinking “how do we make this the best Zelda clone ever“ they had to think every step of the way “how do we make this work somewhat as a Starfox game” which was a completely unnecessary burden on the devs that I can’t imagine is something they were super thrilled about having to go through based on the main character looking somewhat like Fox.
Click to expand...
Probably they didn't have faith in the devs and said: How we can achieve more sales with low effort? The microsof already bought them, they didn´t have a lot of time to fix the game. The change of ip was benefetial for Nintendo too, they can keep the characters created there.
 
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