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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Sadly enough I’m starting to doubt a 2022 and early 2023 reveal and release of Drake.

I think it makes most sense for Nintendo to do a July reveal and release it in august next year.
It’s going to be the exact same as the current Switch playbook. Reveal in January. Release with BotW 2 in March. Many 4K patches to older games throughout the year (which I think will be marketed as ‘premium upgrades’ and be tied to the full price online service). New 3D Mario in October.
 
Just a minor quibble, and not to do with your overall point -- there was no "NSO" in the sense of classic games and other perks, but online play was free until those happened. Also not sure I agree about the launch lineup/"no major exclusives" part. BotW might as well be exclusive since Wii U was a branded failure, and several other major games including Splatoon 2 and Odyssey were already announced in January before launch.
Zelda was enough for me day one because I hadn't owned a Nintendo console since the DS Lite. But I think Nintendo early adopters were almost by definition people who bought the Wii U and got burned, so the fact it was available on that console mattered quite a bit.

Fair point on the rest though
 
It’s going to be the exact same as the current Switch playbook. Reveal in January. Release with BotW 2 in March. Many 4K patches to older games throughout the year (which I think will be marketed as ‘premium upgrades’ and be tied to the full price online service). New 3D Mario in October.

If it’s ‘the same playbook’, the early reveal is due this year :]
 
It’s going to be the exact same as the current Switch playbook. Reveal in January. Release with BotW 2 in March. Many 4K patches to older games throughout the year (which I think will be marketed as ‘premium upgrades’ and be tied to the full price online service). New 3D Mario in October.
We got the switch reveal in October 2016.
 
Zelda was enough for me day one because I hadn't owned a Nintendo console since the DS Lite. But I think Nintendo early adopters were almost by definition people who bought the Wii U and got burned, so the fact it was available on that console mattered quite a bit.

Fair point on the rest though
Yeah this was true for most of the 3 million day 1 March launch people, Zelda was/is amazing. But there was good solid support early on. Youtube algorithm was feeding me early Switch DF analysis and I was shocked at how much content they covered on Switch, and by extension how much good stuff got released early on
 
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Oh no! Watch out! I’m moving the goal posts of a 22 reveal 😂

I wouldn’t have personally guessed they’d do a reveal in 2022 without launching before /during the holidays, but if it happens it happens. There’d be some sound business angle to the decision based on data they have. It goes back to my post earlier about giving up on the idea of trying to state what does or doesn’t make sense …

Just hoping we aren’t waiting too much longer for news at this point
 
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In tech, "early adopter" and "later adopter" are more about risk thresholds than cost thresholds.
Cheers, "risk threshold" is a cogent way to frame it. ☕

That can be used w/ eg smartphone adoption as well. Iphones have only gotten more expensive, but it took time to get "late adopters" on board and willing to pay that relatively high price as the value proposition was clearly established.

===

It gets me thinking: The introduction of the new Switch is a potentially sticky situation.

The early adopters (which is what, perhaps 14-20million, including all of us here) are raring for it. The value prop, enhanced fidelity, is a strong selling point for us.

But what about the next 80 million in potential sales after that? Will the new Switch clearly do something novel enough or better enough than the current Switch to convince the later adopters?

If e.g. Mario Kart 9 is "cross-gen" and turns out to be pretty-dang-good-enough 1080p/60 on current Switch, does this impede overall adoption of the new system?
 
But what about the next 80 million in potential sales after that? Will the new Switch clearly do something novel enough or better enough than the current Switch to convince the later adopters?

If e.g. Mario Kart 9 is "cross-gen" and turns out to be pretty-dang-good-enough 1080p/60 on current Switch, does this impede overall adoption of the new system?
It's going to need exclusives, and they'll have to be exciting. The next Mario Kart would be a perfect choice, especially given how much support it's gotten at this standard of fidelity
 
Cheers, "risk threshold" is a cogent way to frame it. ☕

That can be used w/ eg smartphone adoption as well. Iphones have only gotten more expensive, but it took time to get "late adopters" on board and willing to pay that relatively high price as the value proposition was clearly established.

===

It gets me thinking: The introduction of the new Switch is a potentially sticky situation.

The early adopters (which is what, perhaps 14-20million, including all of us here) are raring for it. The value prop, enhanced fidelity, is a strong selling point for us.

But what about the next 80 million in potential sales after that? Will the new Switch clearly do something novel enough or better enough than the current Switch to convince the later adopters?

If e.g. Mario Kart 9 is "cross-gen" and turns out to be pretty-dang-good-enough 1080p/60 on current Switch, does this impede overall adoption of the new system?

I’d think eventually new exclusive software will be the reason to move over. You could ask the same thing about PS5 or XSX this generation, as there was hardly a reason buy in at launch for most consumers. Next year might be the first year where that value prop is evident - Starfield, FFXVI, etc.
 
Cheers, "risk threshold" is a cogent way to frame it. ☕

That can be used w/ eg smartphone adoption as well. Iphones have only gotten more expensive, but it took time to get "late adopters" on board and willing to pay that relatively high price as the value proposition was clearly established.

===

It gets me thinking: The introduction of the new Switch is a potentially sticky situation.

The early adopters (which is what, perhaps 14-20million, including all of us here) are raring for it. The value prop, enhanced fidelity, is a strong selling point for us.

But what about the next 80 million in potential sales after that? Will the new Switch clearly do something novel enough or better enough than the current Switch to convince the later adopters?

If e.g. Mario Kart 9 is "cross-gen" and turns out to be pretty-dang-good-enough 1080p/60 on current Switch, does this impede overall adoption of the new system?
I still believe that's where third parties will come in. if a million people bought the witcher 3, I think a million will go out to pick up games like FF7, Elden Ring, and the like
 
It gets me thinking: The introduction of the new Switch is a potentially sticky situation.

The early adopters (which is what, perhaps 14-20million, including all of us here) are raring for it. The value prop, enhanced fidelity, is a strong selling point for us.

But what about the next 80 million in potential sales after that? Will the new Switch clearly do something novel enough or better enough than the current Switch to convince the later adopters?
Substitute “next console” for “Switch” here and you have the problem every manufacturer has had every generation and there is no rock solid answer for it. Most people own one console, and when their current console outlives its life for them and they want to play more games they aren’t in the market for the next version of that console, but any video game device, up to and including their phones and PCs.

It's not clear to me that Nintendo does want to sell 100 million of the next Switch, however, depending on your definition of "next Switch." If you mean "Switch Pro" the device most commonly speculated about here in this thread, then 20 million might be "wildly successful". Sony didn't want to sell 100 million PS4 Pros, after all - in fact the success of the PS4Pro is almost a problem for them. The goal might just be "extend the viable lifespan of the Switch for an extra 2 years."

The other possibility, often talked about is that the Switch is a platform like the iPhone. If that is Nintendo's plan, then they also never want to sell 100 million units. If they can just convince 15-20% of their user base to upgrade every year, and the rolling platform keeps software sales high, then they could ride that for a long time with no single edition of the device hitting 100 million units. Switch '23 sells 15 million units over 3 years. In 2026, Switch '26 is introduced, Switch '17 is retired, no longer supported with first party games or updates. Switch '23 sells another couple million units as the cheap model, Switch '26 does it's 15 million, and in 2029, Switch '23 is retired and so on.

I'm not saying they will do this or they should do this, but it is possible. Users would still get their 6-7 year "generation" of support, enthusiasts could get on the latest and greatest train early, and Nintendo doesn't have to worry about a failed generation bankrupting the company.
 
If one sees Drake as 'The Next Generation' for Nintendo with a target of 100 million units over its lifetime? IMO, on top of being 'the premium way to play cross-gen', the first 2-3 years would probably have to be carried mainly by 3rd parties with a smattering of 1st party games here and there demoing Drake's capabilities. The cycle for Nintendo's major 1st party stuff would probably kick in for the big time exclusives in years 4-5?
 
It's going to need exclusives, and they'll have to be exciting. The next Mario Kart would be a perfect choice, especially given how much support it's gotten at this standard of fidelity
Selfishly as a Certified Early Adopter, if they could utilize the extra power of the new machine to deliver something current Switch cannot I'd like to see them make it a new system exclusive. "Sorry current switch owners, but to create 'Mario Kart 9 Double Dash Triple Trouble' we needed ALL of the power!"

Practically however, I am expecting them to make it a "cross-gen" title to leverage that tremendous user-base into massive game sales right off the bat. Also admittedly, I don't think Mario Kart is the type of game that they necessarily need more power than the current Switch to deliver something overall awesome. Caveat being I have no idea what inventive concept they are cooking up to adequately differentiate from 8's already incredible offering.

The other possibility, often talked about is that the Switch is a platform like the iPhone.
Honestly, I thought years back that is the angle they were taking. Man do I wish they started that approach w/ the Mariko variant! Imagine 75% of the userbase today being able to enjoy solidly enhanced fidelity and smoother performance.

But if they were taking this approach, wouldn't they have released product that was marketed as more powerful by now?

One point that I assume is a major stumbling block to the above is how daunting it must be to support more and more "performance profiles" for a single game. Correct me if I am wrong, but current Switch developers have to carefully balance between two profiles. Every new hardware that is billed as a performance leap would then necessarily introduce two additional profiles to support if you ultimately want to target the entire user base?

I imagine if so, there is a point where that wide-ranging support becomes prohibitive and perhaps that projected added development burden would be the deciding factor against more/shorter iterations?
 
I've said it before, but Mario Kart is the perfect title for Nintendo's first exclusive. There's not going to be any "lost sales" with a MK title. Whether it needs to be exclusive for power reasons is irrelevant, that's not really how it works most of the time, obviously Mario Kart is feasible at almost any power level.
 
One point that I assume is a major stumbling block to the above is how daunting it must be to support more and more "performance profiles" for a single game. Correct me if I am wrong, but current Switch developers have to carefully balance between two profiles. Every new hardware that is billed as a performance leap would then necessarily introduce two additional profiles to support if you ultimately want to target the entire user base?

I imagine if so, there is a point where that wide-ranging support becomes prohibitive and perhaps that projected added development burden would be the deciding factor against more/shorter iterations?
"Power profiles" are in a sense so baked into game development practices at this point that it's by far the exception that a dev team wouldn't be on top of them. already. If you want a multiplat, you have multiple hardware targets. Even if it's a current gen Xbox exclusive, you have multiple hardware targets. If it's on Steam, you have infinite hardware targets. Game engines are built to be scalable and configurable, and when it comes to targeting multiple platforms in the same family, most of it should just be tweaking knobs.
 
With how long Nintendo is supporting MK8 DX with DLC well into 2024 I wouldn't be surprised if MK8 DX is patched for Drake and then in 2025/2026 MK9 launches as a Drake exclusive.

Nintendo will show little consideration for current standard switch owners, they have already had 7/8 years of mk8 support at this point. Nintendo will not hamstring mk9 just for the sake of customer sentiment when a new, bigger and better Mario Kart absolutely is one of the biggest system sellers they have. BOTW2 is different as its always been promised as a Switch 1 title, I suspect it will be heavily enhanced for Drake.

The timeline works as well, by 2025 Drake has hopefully been on the market for a couple years, production volumes will be much higher and Nintendo will be ready to move people over to that platform if it is indeed a new generation. As such, launching a new Mario Kart title that takes full advantage of the hardware and brings the series forward will really drive sales and adoption of the new device.
 
Sony just increased the PS5 price and there are likely still some people here that think they will get Drake for 349 or less lol.
When SteamDeck, a device without OLED, detachable controllers or Dock can barely be sold for 400 in the base version.

Preparing for 449 with a game for now.
 
Sony just increased the PS5 price and there are likely still some people here that think they will get Drake for 349 or less lol.
When SteamDeck, a device without OLED, detachable controllers or Dock can barely be sold for 400 in the base version.

Preparing for 449 with a game for now.
I honestly think 449 without a game is to be expected. Might even do a SKU with larger storage for 500. 128gb for 449 and 512gb for 500.
 
I honestly think 449 without a game is to be expected. Might even do a SKU with larger storage for 500. 128gb for 449 and 512gb for 500.

I’m ready to pay also 500, but right now I would be happy also for a fall 2023 release.
The later, the better in this moment (especially if it’s a new gen)
 
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450 is ... okay. I mean, i'm a cheap arse, so the less money i'd have to pay the better. But for what the rumored device is, i'd say 450 is okay.

500 is already stretching it. I would pay it cause i like my shiny new toys, but man i wouldn't be happy at all.
 
It's really hard for me to imagine Nintendo, with the cheapest consoles on sale right now (200€ for the "entry" version", 350€ for the "premium" version) going 450-500€. If drake is a hybrid, that amount of money is going to be very difficult to justify. Many people have switch as a secondary console after all.
 
It's really hard for me to imagine Nintendo, with the cheapest consoles on sale right now (200€ for the "entry" version", 350€ for the "premium" version) going 450-500€. If drake is a hybrid, that amount of money is going to be very difficult to justify. Many people have switch as a secondary console after all.
If it's the "ultra premium Switch" then I don't see a problems with it. The price is one of the main reasons I can't see it being marketed as a Switch 2.

It'll be "hey enthusiasts, here's a Switch version that will play your games in 4k! It's expensive but it's quite an upgrade!"
 
I know I will get it, the price point will only determine how far down the line. But after always getting the system at launch and then be drooling at the special editions I can’t bring myself to buy because I hate the process of selling stuff…

This time, I’m gonna wait for the first special edition. Fortunately, I enjoy most of Nintendo main franchises, so I won’t have to wait too long.
 
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If it's the "ultra premium Switch" then I don't see a problems with it. The price is one of the main reasons I can't see it being marketed as a Switch 2.

It'll be "hey enthusiasts, here's a Switch version that will play your games in 4k! It's expensive but it's quite an upgrade!"
Yeah, that'll have to be it. Then again, I do feel like a "switch 4K" in 2023 (or 2024) is a bit of a gamble. It's going to be a premium product (so no "need" to upgrade) for a select few enthusiasts in a time of economic uncertainty, and for a very high price. The precedent for a Nintendo Premium console SKU is... the Panasonic GameCube?
 
Cheers, "risk threshold" is a cogent way to frame it. ☕

That can be used w/ eg smartphone adoption as well. Iphones have only gotten more expensive, but it took time to get "late adopters" on board and willing to pay that relatively high price as the value proposition was clearly established.

===

It gets me thinking: The introduction of the new Switch is a potentially sticky situation.

The early adopters (which is what, perhaps 14-20million, including all of us here) are raring for it. The value prop, enhanced fidelity, is a strong selling point for us.

But what about the next 80 million in potential sales after that? Will the new Switch clearly do something novel enough or better enough than the current Switch to convince the later adopters?

If e.g. Mario Kart 9 is "cross-gen" and turns out to be pretty-dang-good-enough 1080p/60 on current Switch, does this impede overall adoption of the new system?
Does it need to? In all honesty, if it allows a larger pool of software to be played on it all the while keeping backwards compatibility with older software, does it even matter? The demand is clearly there.
 
If it's the "ultra premium Switch" then I don't see a problems with it. The price is one of the main reasons I can't see it being marketed as a Switch 2.

It'll be "hey enthusiasts, here's a Switch version that will play your games in 4k! It's expensive but it's quite an upgrade!"
I think over its life cycle it could be both the premium option and a switch 2.

Soft launch in 2023 as premium model with 450 price tag and continue to support base switch.

Launch Drake lite in 2025 as support for original switch ends, stop production of OG models, price drop Drake to 400, have Drake lite sit at 250 and announce all this in a general direct. Actually if they market it right they don't even need to announce anything later in its life outside of the stopping production of original switches. When they announce Drake they can say its a new system in the switch family that plays your current games better, it may have exclusives and you tell if it's exclusive as the box will have this branding. Then in two years they just drop the other models and all games released have the Drake branding on the box.

Allows Nintendo to account for increased costs over time and shift their brand image from cheap option to premium experience with the added benefit of mobility.

The gamble here is if there is enough adoption of Drake when marketing it as a premium option to transition to it as the primary platform. But the OLED model may be them testing the waters in that respect and they have enough data by now to suggest this strategy could work.
 
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It's really hard for me to imagine Nintendo, with the cheapest consoles on sale right now (200€ for the "entry" version", 350€ for the "premium" version) going 450-500€. If drake is a hybrid, that amount of money is going to be very difficult to justify. Many people have switch as a secondary console after all.
People were willing to spent more for a Switch than for a PS4/Xbox One.
There is a large portion of the market that considers a Hybrid to be an actual upgrade compared to stationary consoles, with the added value it provides while you are painting it as something of inferior value.

Many people also have their PS, Xbox, Phone or whatever as a secondary gaming systems - that doesnt mean Sony is gonna sell their PS5 for 300 bucks or nVidia their latest GPU for 200 bucks.

Expecting this kind of hardware jump to cost more or less the same as the OG Switch isnt realistic, especially when new non Series S consoles are pretty much 500 as the baseline.
 
Is there not an expectation for third parties to be enticed to put new games on this thing? Not convinced it can achieve all these aims as a $500 premium offering. There is always the prospect of releasing a home only version and hybrid version simultaneously though.
 
Is there not an expectation for third parties to be enticed to put new games on this thing? Not convinced it can achieve all these aims as a $500 premium offering. There is always the prospect of releasing a home only version and hybrid version simultaneously though.
It can have new games and also be a premium upgrade. Just like all of Nintendo's past premium upgrades.

Regardless of the price it will sell out instantly for the first few months, it would be silly for third parties not to try and capitalize on those early adopters at the very least.
 
I am ready and willing to spend like $500 USD / $600 Canadian for a premium Switch. I play the thing literally every day. I spend more time actively using it than I use my well-over $1000 smartphone. $600 CAD would be a bargain IMO
 
People were willing to spent more for a Switch than for a PS4/Xbox One.
There is a large portion of the market that considers a Hybrid to be an actual upgrade compared to stationary consoles, with the added value it provides while you are painting it as something of inferior value.

Many people also have their PS, Xbox, Phone or whatever as a secondary gaming systems - that doesnt mean Sony is gonna sell their PS5 for 300 bucks or nVidia their latest GPU for 200 bucks.

Expecting this kind of hardware jump to cost more or less the same as the OG Switch isnt realistic, especially when new non Series S consoles are pretty much 500 as the baseline.

NSW was more expensive than those consoles at launch, yes, and people bought it because of the hybrid concept. However, it did not launch at the same price as a PS4 or an XBone.

We were also discussing the pricing if Drake was marketed as "switch pro/4K" and not as a full successor, which I think would make it a harder sell for many users ("play the same games now in 4K" is a decent sell for the enthusiast, not sure about the regular folk). This is why I think the price being 450-500€ is a gamble, depending on what Nintendo envisions for the console. If it's a premium model for enthusiasts, with them intending to keep OLED as the "main" model that drives sales, then it shouldn't be a problem to have fewer sales. If they sell it for 500€ as a successor, that is where I see the issue.

Nintendo has, since the Wii and DS, sold their consoles for less than the competition. I don't see them selling a successor at 500€, and if they sell it as a premium switch, I think it will have a limited appeal.
 
Portability costs a premium, we know this already with laptops and phones, its why comparisons to the PS5/XSX pricing don't gel with me. It will definitely be more expensive than the Series S despite the power difference, the OLED already is. I don't think it'll be 500 though, maybe an sku with more storage.

I'm thinking 450, 50 more than the cheapest Steam Deck. And the Deck doesn't include a dock. Imo, that sounds good from the perspective of a tech enthusiast who wants a suped up hybrid.

A ps4+ level portable with an oled screen and DLSS just sounds expensive.
 
Cheers, "risk threshold" is a cogent way to frame it. ☕

That can be used w/ eg smartphone adoption as well. Iphones have only gotten more expensive, but it took time to get "late adopters" on board and willing to pay that relatively high price as the value proposition was clearly established.

===

It gets me thinking: The introduction of the new Switch is a potentially sticky situation.

The early adopters (which is what, perhaps 14-20million, including all of us here) are raring for it. The value prop, enhanced fidelity, is a strong selling point for us.

But what about the next 80 million in potential sales after that? Will the new Switch clearly do something novel enough or better enough than the current Switch to convince the later adopters?

If e.g. Mario Kart 9 is "cross-gen" and turns out to be pretty-dang-good-enough 1080p/60 on current Switch, does this impede overall adoption of the new system?
Eventually around end of 2024 or so, I'd imagine first party games will only be made for the new model. And I anticipate many 3rd party AAA games that couldn't run on Switch will be ported over. Having stuff like RDR2, Cyberpunk 2077, Assassin's Creed Valhalla, on the go, natively, would be enticing. Being the only place you can get Mario Kart 9, Pikmin 4, etc helps.
 
However, If it's a Delux/Premium model I see less and less the potential for exclusives.

They will have base switch versions in this case.
 
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Exclusives (features,gmes,etc.) is what will determine how next gen this system is perceived to be. MK9 in late 2024 is a great first exclusive title because of the legs and it will be a great game to get people to want to upgrade.
 
PS5 is going up in price and people here are clutching at pearls about a potential high price point for Switch 2.

The problem won't be the price if it comes in around $400 to $500 range. The hardware itself would have to be unappealing with no games for it to suffer.
 
I am expecting Nintendo to continue producing the current Switch and the Lite for a few years after the Switch 2 is out.

That way, the entry barrier into the ecosystem should stay approachable.

And that's why I am not expecting many exclusives from Nintendo in the platform's first 2 years. Except for hardcore games.
 
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I honestly dont care for nintendo exclusives,a s long as they use the power to push the visuals.
just look at BotW. It feels like it has more intereactivity than many games with way stronger processors.
And looking at Smash and Mario Kart and Bayonetta... i dont see a reason for a game design change for first party imediatly.
Just give me higher framerates, resolution (TEXTURES to...),
and a highere LoD / Drawdistance.


Third parties on the other hand are a different topic...
 
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I could be wrong, but I don't think Switch Drake will be above $400 (in the US). Isn't that already more than any console in Nintendo's history? I think they learned their lesson with the 3DS and don't want to have to drop the price if it's not selling like OG Switch did.
 
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SIE's decision to increase the price of the PS5 in most of its more competitive regions is a good thing for Nintendo. Drake's possible $450 USD price tag (doubt it will be that high) could only benefit as a result.
 
Do we have any idea of how Denuvo for Switch works and if will it compromise BC?
Nope, nothing uses it yet and they're unsurprisingly not forthcoming about how it works. Definitely a lot of potential to do dumb crap that messes with BC, though. That said, I imagine their development license would probably be on pretty thin ice if that actually came to pass.
 
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SIE's decision to increase the price of the PS5 in most of its more competitive regions is a good thing for Nintendo. Drake's possible $450 USD price tag (doubt it will be that high) could only benefit as a result.
Yup. Makes these next 6 months perfect to announce/release it. People won’t be opposed to the price at all in the aftermath of the SIE decision. An to cap it off with BOTW2 would hit hard tbh.
 
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Im very curious to see what Nintendo does w/r to pricing and offering of the existing Switch models. . . Given the new box for the non-OLED model I'm more convinced the plan is to keep the older models around and actually support both for a good period of time. I would normally expect a price drop, but that may or may not be feasible if component costs haven't come down in 3+ years. Still, a Switch offering at $150 would move additional units for more price conscious customers.
 
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Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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