YolkFolk
Tingle
If they can get the GPU to Series S level, then it likely would shoot to being a fair bit ahead of the One X and right behind the PS5.
If they can get the GPU to Series S level, then it likely would shoot to being a fair bit ahead of the One X and right behind the PS5.
No, literally no. STOPWell, it primarily depends on the node/clock IMHO.
If they can get the GPU to Series S level, then it likely would shoot to being a fair bit ahead of the One X and right behind the PS5.
Something I feel people need to remember is the cost for resolution and RT at higher resolutions are more exponential rather than linear.
It takes more than double the processing power when GPU is bound to get the same framerate at the same quality settings when going from 1080p to 1440p, 4K .etc, because any resolution dependant effect scales up as well, even with Quarter/Half Res implementations, the effect resolution is increasing.
And the Series S|X and PS5 are in an even worse-off scenario versus Drake in that regard as not only does their potential counter to that exponential cost also run on the shader cores (and seemingly can cause very weird issues like in Tiny Tina's Wonderlands having 4K run better than 1440p), a lot of the shader cores for those systems has to go to compensating the feeble RT performance the systems have when devs want to use RT.
That exponential cost to increase resolution at the same framerate when GPU bound is what makes DLSS so impressive as it sort of dodges most of that or all of it if there is enough Tensor Cores/The algorithm is optimized enough because the workload is parallelized, allowing the shader cores to run as if they were just at their lower resolution.
Not to mention NVIDIA's uArch pipeline and the RT cores themselves are upwards of 3 times more powerful than the Infinity-Cache-less Ray Accelerators in the Seires S|X/PS5. Also ditto on BVH Traversal which saves on CPU and Shader resources which the RDNA2 RA's lack entirely.\
It's very much a case of how much can you achieve out of hardware by working smarter rather than harder.
We don't know that as we don't know how smartly Nintendo and NVIDIA will apply the potential that a 12SM Ampere+ (As it does have access to L3 Cache so it should be better per-FLOP than Destkop Ampere) GPU should have.
I don't expect Nintendo to have the CPU and GPU on Drake run at aggressively high frequencies.Well, it primarily depends on the node/clock IMHO.
I've provided links to that info in the OP.do any of you have a link to the drake leak info and the chip specs?
No, literally no. STOP
Back I say
I said get BACK
I don't expect this. a lot of PS5/Series X games are starting from higher input resolutions before hitting 4K. and if Drake were to get the same games, the input res would also be lower. best we could hope for in this case would be 1440p output to Series X/PS5's 4KThere's no reason why Drake won't have better image quality than Series S and potentially PS5 in certain multiplatform games due to 4k DLSS actually having better IQ than native 2160p (which PS5 rarely hits nevermind Series S which floats between 900p-1440p in most games).
Their reasons for struggling to hit a target resolution are more mixed. Series S is more memory bandwidth limited here while PS5 is GPU limited I’d wager. While switch 2 will have a trick up it’s sleeve to be able to handle higher resolutions, the switch first has to be able to properly render some of these games That are targeting a resolution above 1080p. So, for conversation sake let’s put it into more context:There's no reason why Drake won't have better image quality than Series S and potentially PS5 in certain multiplatform games due to 4k DLSS actually having better IQ than native 2160p (which PS5 rarely hits nevermind Series S which floats between 900p-1440p in most games).
The RT in Drake cannot be compared to the pitifully awful RT in the other consoles. It’s apples to oranges there.I don't expect much RT performance from Drake though. Developers will be using every grain of performance just getting exclusive Series S/X + PS5 games to run on it nevermind using RT. I think we might get 1/4 reflections or RT AO in select games. Metro Exodus does do a great job at limited RT on Steam Deck though I suppose so anything is possible.
I just want to play Breath of the Wild and Metroid Dread in 1080p 60FPS at the very leastAs long as Switch 2 reaches/exceeds PS4 Pro resolution through DLSS while producing better graphics than Pro/One X with stable frames I’m good
For botw 2, I could see Nintendo letting 4k be the only option even though the hardware could easily do 60fps at lower res.I just want to play Breath of the Wild and Metroid Dread in 1080p 60FPS at the very least
Also Three Hopes updates
good news, Three Hopes won't need an update for 60fpsI just want to play Breath of the Wild and Metroid Dread in 1080p 60FPS at the very least
Also Three Hopes updates
This is sort of where I'm at. When I first started hearing about the new hardware all I was thinking was "please something that'll get Xenoblade up to 1080p and sustain it during weather effects" like that's really all I ask. The leak and the specs that go higher than initially expected and all that are just a cherry on top. I'd likely be happy with the absolute lowest this hardware is potentially capable of.I just want to play Breath of the Wild and Metroid Dread in 1080p 60FPS at the very least
Also Three Hopes updates
Their reasons for struggling to hit a target resolution are more mixed. Series S is more memory bandwidth limited here while PS5 is GPU limited I’d wager. While switch 2 will have a trick up it’s sleeve to be able to handle higher resolutions, the switch first has to be able to properly render some of these games That are targeting a resolution above 1080p. So, for conversation sake let’s put it into more context:
Series S|X and PS5 internally are rendering graphics at say 1440p but outputting at 2160p to display for the latter 2. That is to say, the quality they have is suitable for a 1440p display. Series S is limited and why it struggles to maintain it. PS5 and SX can do 1440p, but are pushed beyond that and show that they struggle.
Switch 2 games will get downgraded versions of the Series S version that is suitable for a 1080p, and go up from there. But it will not really be “right behind the PS5”
It’s just not realistic.
Like Dakhil said, One X with DLSS is a very good point of comparison to look at imo.
The RT in Drake cannot be compared to the pitifully awful RT in the other consoles. It’s apples to oranges there.
NVidia’s implementation is way ahead of the AMDs.
RDNA2 RT performance factors in things such as the Infinity cache which the consoles completely lack, so their RT is even worse than RDNA2, which is already worse than Ampere in RT.
We will have to wait and see first how it truly pans out for Drake before drawing a hasty conclusion that “because this can’t do it well, this for sure will not do it” since it’s more nuanced than that.
That said, the reason for my other post simply put is that setting expectations so high will just lead you to disappointment and sets others who are not tech literate enough to this unrealistic standard. No one in the thread was really saying that the switch was going in that direction before, but Alovon with his insane optimism that isn’t realistic here at all put the performance of it so high that it should be called out before others actually believe it non-ironically. It’s not good.
Like, the next switch will be a big improvement over the current switch, but let’s not put some unrealistic expectations into peoples heads. This is still a portable device that will be powered by a battery and by a tiny fan when it is docked to cool it. Sure it will use more efficient architecture, and will also have tricks up its sleeve, but not at all in any facet will it be able to compete with the highest and gaming consoles, period.
And the highest end are: PS5 + Series X
Let us not forget that this is a very technical thread, so what you say here people will assume it is how it is. We have people that read the thread left and right, even though most of them don’t comment in this thread. They may not understand everything, but they do understand the words “right behind the PS5“, you don’t have to be technically literate to understand what those words mean.
Already had someone that attempted to use Gflops as a comparison point between the switch, the PS3 and PS4 when the switch is closer to the PS4 then it is to the PS3 regardless of how you slice it. So the information they were comparing it to was completely wrong and misguided while also being misattributed.
Let’s not forget the cross-gen period, either. Even if the NuSwitch we’re spec-for-spec identical to a PS4Pro, we shouldn’t expect the same kind out output. A mature platform pushed forward by cross-gen with its successor will not look the same as a new platform in cross-gen with its predecessor.Like, the next switch will be a big improvement over the current switch, but let’s not put some unrealistic expectations into peoples heads. This is still a portable device that will be powered by a battery and by a tiny fan when it is docked to cool it. Sure it will use more efficient architecture, and will also have tricks up its sleeve, but not at all in any facet will it be able to compete with the highest and gaming consoles, period.
Can't wait for fanboys to declare Drake is PS4 tech unironically like they routinely compare the X1 to the ancient PS3 and 360Let’s not forget the cross-gen period, either. Even if the NuSwitch we’re spec-for-spec identical to a PS4Pro, we shouldn’t expect the same kind out output. A mature platform pushed forward by cross-gen with its successor will not look the same as a new platform in cross-gen with its predecessor.
Non-technical folk often mix up feature sets with raw power. Drake is an odd piece of hardware - as a feature set it represents a real leap over current-gen hardware, taking RT and adding Tensor cores. But it is likely more like last gen in terms of power/clocks - this isn’t “because Nintendo” but “because miniaturization.”
NO!We have been talking about graphics for literally years while what we should ask for is anything that ensures day 1 versions of next gen games.
Even if Nintendo made a system that was better than series s in every way, it wouldn’t ensure that.We have been talking about graphics for literally years while what we should ask for is anything that ensures day 1 versions of next gen games.
Like i said, whatever the reason Series S exists, it's a very convenient lower bound for the next Switch's ports.Even if Nintendo made a system that was better than series s in every way, it wouldn’t ensure that.
gpu core counts are the only think we know. for what you want, we need a leak on the cpu and memory. the bare minimum is achievable for nintendo though, so it's a matter of how high are they willing to goWe have been talking about graphics for literally years while what we should ask for is anything that ensures day 1 versions of next gen games.
I’ve heard the underlined so many times that I’ve lost count now. I expect much the same as with the current Switch: indies, mobile, mid tier, past gen games, & a spattering of current gen. There will always be reasons why 3rd party companies don’t bring their games over regardless of if they are missing money or being a no brainer.Like i said, whatever the reason Series S exists, it's a very convenient lower bound for the next Switch's ports.
Unless there are technical or business reasons (e.g. bought exclusives), i suspect most games will get ported. 3rd parties don't want to turn down money, and the extent so many have gone to get a piece of the Switch pie is proof of that. A successor iterative platform to one of the best selling consoles is a no brainer.
It's not just a technical problem.We have been talking about graphics for literally years while what we should ask for is anything that ensures day 1 versions of next gen games.
Are you talking about before or after DLSS is enabled?Everyone suggesting a Drake within the ballpark of an Xbox One X or higher is fucking with you.
Yeah. And that's what matters. We don't need posts that hype up a ubermachine that will not exist anyway in any shape or form.gpu core counts are the only think we know. for what you want, we need a leak on the cpu and memory. the bare minimum is achievable for nintendo though, so it's a matter of how high are they willing to go
Bingo. We should talk more about the non-hardware side of things as well when we talk about the successor to the Switch. Personally, I would like to see clues about the support of Nanite, UE5, or any new tech used by next gen consoles (variable shades, fast I/O, etc)It's not just a technical problem.
Are you talking about before or after DLSS is enabled?
Sorry to disappoint but it doesn't really matter, actually.Are you talking about before or after DLSS is enabled?
literally who? what are you even talking about? you keep talking about something in vague terms but you don't actually quote this ubermachine you claim people are referencingYeah. And that's what matters. We don't need posts that hype up a ubermachine that will not exist anyway in any shape or form.
DLSS has better performance and lower power draw than native as well as great (sometimes better than native) IQ…Sorry to disappoint but it doesn't really matter, actually.
DLSS and reconstructive technics in general are a trade-off between performance and IQ. If you want more of former, you may choose to not use it. If you want more IQ, you add it in. Is it a game changer? In my opinion no, because you are still bound to the basic limitations of rasterization. Why not then use the unit's soc real estate and power for purely drawing pixels?
Personally, I am not convinced of DLSS relevance at the power draws (and hence frame rates) we are discussing. And a low engraving node would not change that. Any game going for it would run at 30 FPS or 40 FPS at best. To me, it's simply a waste if the screen can't refresh at 120 Hz and its divisors. That's a lot of ifs for it to be relevant.
Turns out Apple being one of the world's most valuable and richest companies has perks, such as being able to pay to have temporary, exclusive access to TSMC's newest process node before other companies, have priority for materials, etc.people: you can't launch during a component shortage
apple: hold my beer
Report: Apple is gearing up to launch a ‘flood’ of new devices starting this fall
New iPhones, Macs, Watches, and more.www.theverge.com
Yes there will be some devs/pubs/games that miss the console, but it all comes down to pipeline and ease of conversion. Thats what I mean by devs don't like to turn down money.I’ve heard the underlined so many times that I’ve lost count now. I expect much the same as with the current Switch: indies, mobile, mid tier, past gen games, & a spattering of current gen. There will always be reasons why 3rd party companies don’t bring their games over regardless of if they are missing money or being a no brainer.
Again we’ve heard that line about Switch. I’m not expecting it to change much for the Drake. More pipelines could be started now to get ready for an eventual new machine suet they aren’t. Politics always gets in the way even if the work were easy.Yes there will be some devs/pubs/games that miss the console, but it all comes down to pipeline and ease of conversion. Thats what I mean by devs don't like to turn down money.
Having support of the biggest game engines out there helped Switch out a ton. If 3rd parties can easily take their work and convert to Switch 2/4K/Pro they will do it.
Regardless the conversations will be much more interesting once we see actual Drake exclusive games and release dates.Again we’ve heard that line about Switch. I’m not expecting it to change much for the Drake. More pipelines could be started now to get ready for an eventual new machine suet they aren’t. Politics always gets in the way even if the work were easy.
Ultimately we’ll see but I remain skeptical considering what we have seen from 3rd parties historically & just from this gen alone.
it's easy to say that, but we can point to every other product that launched in the past year as well. products that start production will launch, shortages be damned. it'll just take longer to fulfill demandTurns out Apple being one of the world's most valuable and richest companies has perks, such as being able to pay to have temporary, exclusive access to TSMC's newest process node before other companies, have priority for materials, etc.
effectively switch 2. what they actually call it is up for discussionI feel like I ask this every so often; so what's the current consensus? Switch 2 or Switch Pro in the same vein as the PS4 Pro and the XBOX One X?
Both. The hardware is next-gen on paper, but most of us don’t think Nintendo will advertise it that way…at least not at first. The first two years will have cross-gen games, so don’t expect Nintendo Drake exclusives until 2024 at the earliest. By then they might ramp up marketing and discontinue one of the OG models.I feel like I ask this every so often; so what's the current consensus? Switch 2 or Switch Pro in the same vein as the PS4 Pro and the XBOX One X?
Biggest difference is buy-in. Switch started with tepid 3rd party support, so it missed out on a lot of multiplats during the peak years of the PS4/XONE era, or the games that could make it were put into production after they had released so fans like us put them into the 'late port' category. or as surprise 'impossible ports' while hand wrining about certain specific games not making it. There's certainly a bit of not appreciating what we did get as well.Again we’ve heard that line about Switch. I’m not expecting it to change much for the Drake. More pipelines could be started now to get ready for an eventual new machine suet they aren’t. Politics always gets in the way even if the work were easy.
Ultimately we’ll see but I remain skeptical considering what we have seen from 3rd parties historically & just from this gen alone.
people: you can't launch during a component shortage
apple: hold my beer
Report: Apple is gearing up to launch a ‘flood’ of new devices starting this fall
New iPhones, Macs, Watches, and more.www.theverge.com
BothI feel like I ask this every so often; so what's the current consensus? Switch 2 or Switch Pro in the same vein as the PS4 Pro and the XBOX One X?
There is a user who loves using bullet points. He is not the only one though.literally who? what are you even talking about? you keep talking about something in vague terms but you don't actually quote this ubermachine you claim people are referencing
This is a misconception. DLSS has a fixed cost that is tied to the output resolution. Depending on how many tensor cores you have, the cost is more or less high. In the case of a portable console like the Switch, Alex Battaglia has estimated that applying DLSS would eat up around 10 ms in each frame, leaving a paltry 6 ms to render the game at base resolution (in this case, the former would be 4k and the latter 1080p).DLSS has better performance and lower power draw than native as well as great (sometimes better than native) IQ…
A lot of games will be 30fps, but that’s already true on Switch. A lot 60fps games will probably go for a lower output, like 1440p, which is still clean as hell.
For the reason above. DLSS is simply not a net gain for all usages.Why are you saying DLSS doesn’t matter