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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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BobNintendofan said:
This is if you compare the switch itself to a PS4 which I don't. I compare it to the PS3, which it is much more similar to in power. This is essentially going from a beefier PS3 to a somewhat weaker PS5, when you would normally expect beefier ps3 to beefier ps4.
Click to expand...
Woah, reel it back in.

This isn’t a “somewhat weaker PS5” lol

Waayyyy below that
 
Glio said:
I honestly don't think "Look, this game you can buy on Switch 1 now you can play it better on Switch 2 too" is the kind of ad to build hype with a new console. They need some new games exclusive for Switch 2, even if there is a long crossgen period.
Click to expand...
True I believe but never said the opposite?
 
0
metonight said:
Comparing a what will be a ~15W console to a ~200W console is not a really fair comparison.
Click to expand...
Well it's more like a ~15-30W console (if they compensate for the EU's USB PD regulations it would need to be upwards of 20W), versus the <100W Series S for native performance.

Which in that case it's a far more fair comparison because Drake can hit similar CPU processing power for fractions of the Wattage because it's on ARM versus Zen2-x86

Which opens up more GPU wattage to up the clock depending on which process node Drake is on
 
Alovon11 said:
Well it's more like a ~15-30W console (if they compensate for the EU's USB PD regulations it would need to be upwards of 20W), versus the <100W Series S for native performance.

Which in that case it's a far more fair comparison because Drake can hit similar CPU processing power for fractions of the Wattage because it's on ARM versus Zen2-x86

Which opens up more GPU wattage to up the clock depending on which process node Drake is on
Click to expand...
so what you're saying is, Nintendo will hobble Drake in order to spite the EU. got it
 
0
Glio said:
Yeah, but what I'm trying to say is that crossgen games by Nintendo have been positioned by their new features, not graphics
Click to expand...
Trying to remember because it's been ages since I touched the game. Was BOTW switch given any specific new features over the WiiU version, or was it just better performance?
 
RailWays said:
Trying to remember because it's been ages since I touched the game. Was BOTW switch given any specific new features over the WiiU version, or was it just better performance?
Click to expand...

900p instead of 720p. More stable framerates. And apparently higher quality sound
 
YolkFolk said:
I’d buy BotW2 on Switch 2 for 4K visuals and silky smooth frame rate. Things impossible on current Switch.
Click to expand...
IMHO Nintendo's counting on a lot of people doing this. I feel BOTW2 will be a cross gen Switch 2/Pro/4K launch window title. They don't have to do much, just advertise the improved performance and IQ. And it serves to address their existing market while appealing to power users. It's the best ace they have.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
4K in the way the PS4 Pro did 4K and other times used techniques to resolve a 4K image. CBR was mentioned.

This isn’t semantics, this is literally just wrong 😭
Click to expand...
For what its worth. Your example would have been an awesome true pro model.
My Tulpa said:
No…MS stopped manufacturing all previous models even BEFORE the Series SX launched. Sony stopped manufacturing all previous models (except ps4 slim) BEFORE the ps5/DE launched.

The plan was to stop ps5 slim production all together a year after the ps5 launch. (They only decided to re start ps4 production for 2022 because of the ps5 stock issues)

So, it’s not the same as the iterative iPhone model.

MS and Sony have iterative hardware technically, but they don’t have the full iterative model philosophy yet.

They still made and sold various Xbox Ones and ps4 models during the lifespan of the One X and Pro….they aren’t doing that at all during the lifespan of the Series SX and ps5. They are diverting all their software and services to the new model.

Certainly, in 2022/2023 with the success and longevity left in the current Switch models, Nintendo will treat the Drake more like an iPhone 4s than like a ps5
Click to expand...
PS5 Slim huh. ._.
metonight said:
that would definitely be a game that would take advantage of a better hardware, tried Bayo 2 recently and was shocked to see how the game is both smooth and without framedrops. The resolution also doesn't seem to be set too low.
Click to expand...
Bayo 1 and 2 are both 720p 60fps on handheld and docked on switch. Framerates hold up better in docked mode. Wii U bayonetta games are 720p and target 60fps, but the performance is worse than the switch games. Not exactly that impressive to me.

I'm pretty much expecting the same from bayo 3 on switch as bayo 2 performed on wiii u. 720p and 40-60fps in docked mode.

Mr Doggo said:
Im looking forward to 4k on botw2 than more fps tbh.
Click to expand...
Would be cool if Nintendo had multiple modes.
4k 30fps
1440p 60fps resolution performance
or 1080 30-60fps with ray tracing on/off Drake.
 
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ShadowFox08 said:
For what its worth. Your example would have been an awesome true pro model.

PS5 Slim huh. ._.

Bayo 1 and 2 are both 720p 60fps on handheld and docked on switch. Framerates hold up better in docked mode. Wii U bayonetta games are 720p and target 60fps, but the performance is worse than the switch games. Not exactly that impressive to me.

I'm pretty much expecting the same from bayo 3 on switch as bayo 2 performed on wiii u. 720p and 40-60fps in docked mode.


Would be cool if Nintendo had multiple modes.
4k 30fps
1440p 60fps resolution performance
or 1080 30-60fps with ray tracing on/off Drake.
Click to expand...
Nintendo just began adding sound options to their games, we will need anither decade before they do that lmao

Fr tho, it cooould happen but im not betting much on it. If the next console ca indeed do 4k and rt then it might be possible.

Retro Studios is the one at nintendo im betting will let you toggle.
 
Mr Doggo said:
Nintendo just began adding sound options to their games, we will need anither decade before they do that lmao

Fr tho, it cooould happen but im not betting much on it. If the next console ca indeed do 4k and rt then it might be possible.

Retro Studios is the one at nintendo im betting will let you toggle.
Click to expand...
Another decade before what? Performance and quality modes? If the Drake is backwards compatible, then by default they will have more profiles to work with on Drake. But yeah I would be more surprised if Nintendo didn't have multiple modes for select 1st party Switch games, now that we have DLSS an ray tracing and higher than full hd possible. 1440p or 4k resolution mode, a quality mode that does ray tracing (reflections and shadows). They don't need to necessairly have more clock speed profiles either for Drake. DLSS will take care of things, if they invest in it.

Switch games can target 720p-1080p 30-60fps. While Drake ports can target 1080-1440p 60fps by default.
 
BobNintendofan said:
This is if you compare the switch itself to a PS4 which I don't. I compare it to the PS3, which it is much more similar to in power. This is essentially going from a beefier PS3 to a somewhat weaker PS5, when you would normally expect beefier ps3 to beefier ps4.
Click to expand...

Oh wow. I think literally every word of this is wrong?

I don't think anyone will disagree with a xbone being in the ballpark of a ps4. And the math on a lot of aspects makes for an easy clean comparison. The shader count is an easy representative display of this. 256 shaders 4GB ram on switch, 768 Shaders 8GB ram on Durango.

A ps3 has 24 pixel shaders and 8 vertex shaders (because they weren't even unified) and 256 MB of RAM.

A ps3 has 1/10th the shader cores of a switch and 1/16th the ram of a switch.

Before we even move onto the wrong of 'a slightly weaker ps5', (we are looking in the ballpark of a PS4) how do you resolve the massive difference between this reality and your claim of a 'beefier ps3'?
 
Crusters said:
Oh wow. I think literally every word of this is wrong?

I don't think anyone will disagree with a xbone being in the ballpark of a ps4. And the math on a lot of aspects makes for an easy clean comparison. The shader count is an easy representative display of this. 256 shaders 4GB ram on switch, 768 Shaders 8GB ram on Durango.

A ps3 has 24 pixel shaders and 8 vertex shaders (because they weren't even unified) and 256 MB of RAM.

A ps3 has 1/10th the shader cores of a switch and 1/16th the ram of a switch.

Before we even move onto the wrong of 'a slightly weaker ps5', (we are looking in the ballpark of a PS4) how do you resolve the massive difference between this reality and your claim of a 'beefier ps3'?
Click to expand...
You are blatantly cherrypicking. While gflops is obviously not a perfect comparison of power and I know you are going to say that, it is a much better comparison than shaders.
PS3: 170gflops
Switch: 390gflops
Ps4: 1.84 tflops

And again yes I know you are going to pull the very infantile "gflops is not comparable across different architectures", I know that. But it is still the best comparison you can make between GPU performance, even though it is itself somewhat flawed.


As for it being closer to a PS5 than a PS4, this is obviously factoring in DLSS. Without DLSS it will obviously be closer to a PS4, but you can not in good faith ignore increasing the resolution from 1080p to 4k, of course you are not operating in good faith.
 
BobNintendofan said:
You are blatantly cherrypicking. While gflops is obviously not a perfect comparison of power and I know you are going to say that, it is a much better comparison than shaders.
PS3: 170gflops
Switch: 390gflops
Ps4: 1.84 tflops

And again yes I know you are going to pull the very infantile "gflops is not comparable across different architectures", I know that. But it is still the best comparison you can make between GPU performance, even though it is itself somewhat flawed.


As for it being closer to a PS5 than a PS4, this is obviously factoring in DLSS. Without DLSS it will obviously be closer to a PS4, but you can not in good faith ignore increasing the resolution from 1080p to 4k, of course you are not operating in good faith.
Click to expand...
The Switch is using hardware close to a decade newer than a PS3. It is, for all practical purposes, more of a weaker PS4 than a strong PS3.
 
BobNintendofan said:
Of course it will be. DLSS alone is a larger improvement over the switch than the PS5 was over the PS4, but the thing will be at least 6x stronger on top of that. Nintendo is effectively skipping a generation from what we've seen of the leaked hardware.
Click to expand...
Sorry I've been out of the loop, have there been more hardware leaks in the past month or so?
 
bellydrum said:
Sorry I've been out of the loop, have there been more hardware leaks in the past month or so?
Click to expand...
No. As far as I know, all of the talks specifically about Nintendo's new hardware thus far has been based on the illegal Nvidia leaks.
 
What if the confusion over the date of this Direct is because there are actually two. A hardware reveal event and then a third party Direct a day later showing some of the games coming exclusively to the new hardware?
 
Skittzo said:
What if the confusion over the date of this Direct is because there are actually two. A hardware reveal event and then a third party Direct a day later showing some of the games coming exclusively to the new hardware?
Click to expand...
I think there will be a second presentation, but not that soon after. I’m thinking July or August. I feel like the mini next week is due to contract obligations and knowing they can’t wait 5-6 months after the February Direct to put out a Direct of some kind.

It would make sense why we haven’t seen any first party stuff in a big presentation in a while. I’m thinking maybe first week of August as a guess, so just after XB3 and just before a potential Splatoon 3 Direct.

Edit: oh and like Jeff said, smaller Twitter drops and info until then, like MK DLC and N64 games, etc.
 
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fwd-bwd said:
To take my mind off the supreme court absurdity (and it's not only RvW), I looked at Nintendo's shareholder disclosures (source) for clues to the next Switch model's production and release window. Below is the unconsolidated inventory data from the Switch era (FY03/18 to FY03/22), and I highlighted the outlying numbers for further discussion:

qMCUB4C.png

  • The finished goods at the end of 03/2018 was high because of the 3DS stock.
  • At the end of 03/2019, the raw materials and work in progress were both elevated, possibly to ramp up the early product of Lite and v2 Switch. As you may recall, the Lite backplate was leaked in 04/2019.
  • Due to COVID factory shutdown, the finished goods and work in progress at the end of 03/2020 were both at the lowest levels.
  • The strong demands stemmed from shelter-in-place resulted in a low finished goods (stock turning over quickly) and high work in progress (mass production to meet demands) at the end of 03/2021.
  • Things are getting interesting this year. As one'd notice immediately, Nintendo is stockpiling raw materials for no apparent reason, while the finished goods and work in progress remain stable.
  • The money tied up in the raw materials is about twice as much as in 03/2019, back when Nintendo was ramping up the Lite and v2 production. Are they preparing to start manufacturing a new model that would cost much more than the Lite and v2? (Yes, there's inflation going on, but that alone doesn't explain the 2x increase.)
  • Note that the work in progress level is not elevated. It seems to indicate that at least at the end of 03/2022, the production of this new model had not been commenced.
Tl;dr, at the end of 03/2022, Nintendo's raw material inventory was at the highest level since the Switch was introduced. The previous peak (03/2019) was for the Lite and v2 production. If this is a precursor of the next Switch model, the work in progress inventory level suggests that the manufacturing of said model had not yet begun by March.

Disclaimer: I'm not a financial analyst. Vash and other experts probably can shed more light on this.
Click to expand...
Very interesting, is it possible to see this same table for 2016, the year prior to the Switch launching?
 
mariodk18 said:
I think there will be a second presentation, but not that soon after. I’m thinking July or August. I feel like the mini next week is due to contract obligations and knowing they can’t wait 5-6 months after the February Direct to put out a Direct of some kind.

It would make sense why we haven’t seen and first party stuff in a big presentation in a while. I’m thinking maybe first week of August as a guess, so just after XB3 and just before a potential Splatoon 3 Direct.
Click to expand...

Assuming hardware is coming this year, this is my sentiment as well. Although I'd have thought they'd need to have something in July, not August. They're running out of time to market any additional major titles launching before October.
 
karmitt said:
Assuming hardware is coming this year, this is my sentiment as well. Although I'd have thought they'd need to have something in July, not August. They're running out of time to market any additional major titles launching before October.
Click to expand...
Yeah I could see it going either way. First week of August would be the latest though for a launch this holiday and that’s only because I’m taking precaution for their two first party releases. The other reason I say august is possible is because Nintendo announced the N3DS August 29th for an October release, but I’m not sure if they’d wait that long for Drake.
 
fwd-bwd said:
To take my mind off the supreme court absurdity (and it's not only RvW), I looked at Nintendo's shareholder disclosures (source) for clues to the next Switch model's production and release window. Below is the unconsolidated inventory data from the Switch era (FY03/18 to FY03/22), and I highlighted the outlying numbers for further discussion:

qMCUB4C.png

  • The finished goods at the end of 03/2018 was high because of the 3DS stock.
  • At the end of 03/2019, the raw materials and work in progress were both elevated, possibly to ramp up the early product of Lite and v2 Switch. As you may recall, the Lite backplate was leaked in 04/2019.
  • Due to COVID factory shutdown, the finished goods and work in progress at the end of 03/2020 were both at the lowest levels.
  • The strong demands stemmed from shelter-in-place resulted in a low finished goods (stock turning over quickly) and high work in progress (mass production to meet demands) at the end of 03/2021.
  • Things are getting interesting this year. As one'd notice immediately, Nintendo is stockpiling raw materials for no apparent reason, while the finished goods and work in progress remain stable.
  • The money tied up in the raw materials is about twice as much as in 03/2019, back when Nintendo was ramping up the Lite and v2 production. Are they preparing to start manufacturing a new model that would cost much more than the Lite and v2? (Yes, there's inflation going on, but that alone doesn't explain the 2x increase.)
  • Note that the work in progress level is not elevated. It seems to indicate that at least at the end of 03/2022, the production of this new model had not been commenced.
Tl;dr, at the end of 03/2022, Nintendo's raw material inventory was at the highest level since the Switch was introduced. The previous peak (03/2019) was for the Lite and v2 production. If this is a precursor of the next Switch model, the work in progress inventory level suggests that the manufacturing of said model had not yet begun by March.

Disclaimer: I'm not a financial analyst. Vash and other experts probably can shed more light on this.
Click to expand...
because I did this for era. dating back to 2015

Finished GoodsWork in ProgressRaw Materials and Supplies
june 201524,019 million yen671 million yen2,649 million yen
june 20162,951 million yen21 million yen2,761 million yen
june 20174,528 million yen117 million yen2,169 million yen
june 20184,486 million yen63 million yen10,336 million yen
june 20193,175 million yen795 million yen32,432 million yen
june 20201,370 million yen19 million yen12,448 million yen
june 20211,680 million yen3,718 million yen9,553 million yen
june 20222,778 million yen69 million yen66,517 million yen
 
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Dmax3901 said:
Tis a beautiful thing:
Click to expand...

I'd play Breath of the Wild for a third time if they released a patch for it this holiday. Or maybe I'd just work on 100%-ing my Master Mode file (sans Korok seeds). Regardless I'd be stuck right back in :-]

ILikeFeet said:
because I did this for era. dating back to 2015

Finished GoodsWork in ProgressRaw Materials and Supplies
june 201524,019 million yen671 million yen2,649 million yen
june 20162,951 million yen21 million yen2,761 million yen
june 20174,528 million yen117 million yen2,169 million yen
june 20184,486 million yen63 million yen10,336 million yen
june 20193,175 million yen795 million yen32,432 million yen
june 20201,370 million yen19 million yen12,448 million yen
june 20211,680 million yen3,718 million yen9,553 million yen
june 20222,778 million yen69 million yen66,517 million yen
Click to expand...

Yeah I've no idea how to read the 2015-2017 situation, even with @fwd-bwd 's previous analysis.
 
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Speaking of enhancement patches, I hope most of them do more than just a res bump, I‘d like to see pushed out draw distance/LODs, higher res and or better filtered shadows and better AO.
 
BobNintendofan said:
You are blatantly cherrypicking. While gflops is obviously not a perfect comparison of power and I know you are going to say that, it is a much better comparison than shaders.
PS3: 170gflops
Switch: 390gflops
Ps4: 1.84 tflops

And again yes I know you are going to pull the very infantile "gflops is not comparable across different architectures", I know that. But it is still the best comparison you can make between GPU performance, even though it is itself somewhat flawed.


As for it being closer to a PS5 than a PS4, this is obviously factoring in DLSS. Without DLSS it will obviously be closer to a PS4, but you can not in good faith ignore increasing the resolution from 1080p to 4k, of course you are not operating in good faith.
Click to expand...
Its '211 Gflops' for a ps3
(550MHz x 24 Shaders x 16 ops per clock per cycle)

('250 Gflops' if you include the vertex shaders and their 40 Gflops'.)

That's also pretty nonsense in the real world with real world occupancy.... It's more shaking out like..... 2 operations per pipeline a cycle. Maybe 3 out of 5 operations used on sunny days.

Why don't you apply that old vliw theoretical flops formula to the vliw GPU Wii u and stand by it lol.

Wii u: 550MHz x 160 Shaders x 16 ops per clock per cycle= 1.41 TFlops!

Oh snap. Did anyone else know the Wii u's been tailgating the PS4 this whole time?
 
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0
ShadowFox08 said:
For what its worth. Your example would have been an awesome true pro model.
Click to expand...
It’s what they honestly should have done if they wanted a Pro device. Could have been enough.

Mr Doggo said:
Nintendo just began adding sound options to their games, we will need anither decade before they do that lmao

Fr tho, it cooould happen but im not betting much on it. If the next console ca indeed do 4k and rt then it might be possible.

Retro Studios is the one at nintendo im betting will let you toggle.
Click to expand...
If I’m not mistaken, but some 3DS titles let the user swap between one mode or another mode by holding down a button.

I think it was DS games on 3DS you can play it at the pixel fit of the DS and not at all stretched.

BobNintendofan said:
You are blatantly cherrypicking. While gflops is obviously not a perfect comparison of power and I know you are going to say that, it is a much better comparison than shaders.
PS3: 170gflops
Switch: 390gflops
Ps4: 1.84 tflops

And again yes I know you are going to pull the very infantile "gflops is not comparable across different architectures", I know that. But it is still the best comparison you can make between GPU performance, even though it is itself somewhat flawed.


As for it being closer to a PS5 than a PS4, this is obviously factoring in DLSS. Without DLSS it will obviously be closer to a PS4, but you can not in good faith ignore increasing the resolution from 1080p to 4k, of course you are not operating in good faith.
Click to expand...
This is a pretty cherry picked example. The user you quoted used the whole technological aspect of it but you ignored it and used GFLOPs and even admitted it isnt the best for comparison.

Comparing the GFLOPS Of the PS3 that used a different paradigm to the GFLOPS of the Switch that uses a completely different and much more modern paradigm is setting up a terrible comparison point.

The PS3 didn’t even solely use the GPU, it used the CELL and the RSX helped along with it. Comparing that to the switch is quite literally comparing oranges to apples.

As pokemaniac put it, the switch is more like a scaled down PS4 than some scaled up PS3. PS3 are farther apart than PS4 and PS3 or PS4 and Switch.

It just does not work here.


They don’t even process the GFLOP the same way.

RSX (strictly the GPU) vs the TX1 GPU would get blown out of the water hands down.


Also even with DLSS, let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
 
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ILikeFeet said:
the only way I can see that is if it's a game like Pokemon, Splatoon 3 and Xenoblade 3 as they have ongoing support
Click to expand...
I don’t see why an older game that would already be getting an enhancement patch would be less likely to have some settings changes. A lot of them would kinda need it, for instance if XB DE and XB2 got patches they’d need draw distance tweaks to go along with the higher resolution.
 
Skittzo said:
What if the confusion over the date of this Direct is because there are actually two. A hardware reveal event and then a third party Direct a day later showing some of the games coming exclusively to the new hardware?
Click to expand...
or maybe there's really one direct next week. The first rumor was 29th, but there could easily mean Japan time in the morning, while it would be 28th in NA in the afternoon/evening.

But perhaps we'll get another and main direct after 🤔. Really hoping for RDR1 reveal on switch next week
 
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Dmax3901 said:
Very interesting, is it possible to see this same table for 2016, the year prior to the Switch launching?
Click to expand...
ILikeFeet said:
Finished GoodsWork in ProgressRaw Materials and Supplies
june 201524,019 million yen671 million yen2,649 million yen
june 20162,951 million yen21 million yen2,761 million yen
june 20174,528 million yen117 million yen2,169 million yen
june 20184,486 million yen63 million yen10,336 million yen
june 20193,175 million yen795 million yen32,432 million yen
june 20201,370 million yen19 million yen12,448 million yen
june 20211,680 million yen3,718 million yen9,553 million yen
june 20222,778 million yen69 million yen66,517 million yen
Click to expand...
karmitt said:
Yeah I've no idea how to read the 2015-2017 situation, even with @fwd-bwd 's previous analysis.
Click to expand...
Thanks @ILikeFeet. This is very helpful. BTW, I believe that you meant to write "March" instead of "June".

The data from 03/2015 to 2017 is difficult to interpret because Nintendo didn't break out Wii U, 3DS, and Switch numbers, but I'll try:
  • In 03/2015 Nintendo was sitting on a large number of unsold finished goods, and we all know why. The work in progress level was also elevated, possibly due to the production of New 3DS, which was being rolled out globally.
  • Things looked bleak in 03/2016. Everything was low.
  • Due to the combined stock of 3DS and Switch (not sure if any Wii U stock remained), in 03/2017 the finished goods level was high. In Nintendo's earning release, they stated that the demand for Switch was higher than their forecast; that explained the relatively high work in progress number.
  • I've given my comments on the 2018-2022 numbers in my previous post. Again, the inventory of raw materials (as of 03/2022) is at the highest level in many years, and it's not even close. Nintendo may be stockpiling materials either to combat supply chain issues, or to prepare for a new hardware launch.
 
BobNintendofan said:
This is essentially going from a beefier PS3 to a somewhat weaker PS5, when you would normally expect beefier ps3 to beefier ps4.
Click to expand...
I think Nintendo's new hardware, in the absolute best case scenario, is going to be around the Xbox One X in terms of GPU performance after enabling DLSS, which I believe is still pretty far away from being relatively close to the PlayStation 5.
Here's an interesting article from Angstronomics discussing the difference between TSMC's projected theoretical transistor density vs the actual transistor density of TSMC's N5 process node family.
www.angstronomics.com

The TRUTH of TSMC 5nm

Claimed Density vs Reality
www.angstronomics.com www.angstronomics.com
 
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bixente said:
I'd love to play RDR1 as well. But apparently there's something about the code that makes porting it extremely difficult.
Click to expand...
So like GTA4, chaotic development led to an absolute mess in the code. Which is why it was never ported natively to any newer console.
 
0
Dakhil said:
I think Nintendo's new hardware, in the absolute best case scenario, is going to be around the Xbox One X in terms of GPU performance after enabling DLSS, which I believe is still pretty far away from being relatively close to the PlayStation 5.
Click to expand...
Well, it primarily depends on the node/clock IMHO.

If they can get the GPU to Series S level, then it likely would shoot to being a fair bit ahead of the One X and right behind the PS5.

Something I feel people need to remember is the cost for resolution and RT at higher resolutions are more exponential rather than linear.

It takes more than double the processing power when GPU is bound to get the same framerate at the same quality settings when going from 1080p to 1440p, 4K .etc, because any resolution dependant effect scales up as well, even with Quarter/Half Res implementations, the effect resolution is increasing.

And the Series S|X and PS5 are in an even worse-off scenario versus Drake in that regard as not only does their potential counter to that exponential cost also run on the shader cores (and seemingly can cause very weird issues like in Tiny Tina's Wonderlands having 4K run better than 1440p), a lot of the shader cores for those systems has to go to compensating the feeble RT performance the systems have when devs want to use RT.

That exponential cost to increase resolution at the same framerate when GPU bound is what makes DLSS so impressive as it sort of dodges most of that or all of it if there is enough Tensor Cores/The algorithm is optimized enough because the workload is parallelized, allowing the shader cores to run as if they were just at their lower resolution.

Not to mention NVIDIA's uArch pipeline and the RT cores themselves are upwards of 3 times more powerful than the Infinity-Cache-less Ray Accelerators in the Seires S|X/PS5. Also ditto on BVH Traversal which saves on CPU and Shader resources which the RDNA2 RA's lack entirely.\

It's very much a case of how much can you achieve out of hardware by working smarter rather than harder.
We don't know that as we don't know how smartly Nintendo and NVIDIA will apply the potential that a 12SM Ampere+ (As it does have access to L3 Cache so it should be better per-FLOP than Destkop Ampere) GPU should have.
 
Alovon11 said:
Well, it primarily depends on the node/clock IMHO.

If they can get the GPU to Series S level, then it likely would shoot to being a fair bit ahead of the One X and right behind the PS5.

Something I feel people need to remember is the cost for resolution and RT at higher resolutions are more exponential rather than linear.

It takes more than double the processing power when GPU is bound to get the same framerate at the same quality settings when going from 1080p to 1440p, 4K .etc, because any resolution dependant effect scales up as well, even with Quarter/Half Res implementations, the effect resolution is increasing.

And the Series S|X and PS5 are in an even worse-off scenario versus Drake in that regard as not only does their potential counter to that exponential cost also run on the shader cores (and seemingly can cause very weird issues like in Tiny Tina's Wonderlands having 4K run better than 1440p), a lot of the shader cores for those systems has to go to compensating the feeble RT performance the systems have when devs want to use RT.

That exponential cost to increase resolution at the same framerate when GPU bound is what makes DLSS so impressive as it sort of dodges most of that or all of it if there is enough Tensor Cores/The algorithm is optimized enough because the workload is parallelized, allowing the shader cores to run as if they were just at their lower resolution.

Not to mention NVIDIA's uArch pipeline and the RT cores themselves are upwards of 3 times more powerful than the Infinity-Cache-less Ray Accelerators in the Seires S|X/PS5. Also ditto on BVH Traversal which saves on CPU and Shader resources which the RDNA2 RA's lack entirely.\

It's very much a case of how much can you achieve out of hardware by working smarter rather than harder.
We don't know that as we don't know how smartly Nintendo and NVIDIA will apply the potential that a 12SM Ampere+ (As it does have access to L3 Cache so it should be better per-FLOP than Destkop Ampere) GPU should have.
Click to expand...

Drake is going to be in a unique neat position. But it's only going to be a one time deal, for a limited period of time, before competitive solutions saturate the market.
 
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