StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[bmfrosty]

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[darthdiablo]

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[Steve]

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I would expect 15-20 million console throughout the year at the
Most, since the switch as skyrocketed games sells, like TOTK sold 10 million copies in only 3-6 days.

And if Nintendo are able to advertise their system right, especially with a new ground breaking 3D mario, the their golden and that doesn’t include their other secret games. Like I can see a new 3D Kirby releasing next year, same goes for Mario kart and Metroid prime 4. Also other ports, like especially Xenoblade X.

Plus we sadly don’t know what’s the future of their online infrastructure will be. (High Copium. GameCube and Wii on NSO in launch)

 

[Giancarlo]

Continuing to piss off 3rd parties is a great way to discourage them from developing for your platform.

well you dont bite the hand that feed you(if Nintendo want third-parties that up to date/day one on Switch sucessor, they need to treat well the third-parties, unless Nintendo want, Capcom, Square Enix and many more avoid it next console like a plague, oh you want Monster Hunter Wild/Resident Evil 9, Dragon Quest 12, GTAVI on Switch sucessor, too bad to you, you mistreated us, here your rewards, no suport for us)

 

[Giancarlo]

There's also COVID to unfortunately factor in, for a game launching in fall 2024, these days it probably would have to have begun development around 2020/2021, which is smack dab in the middle of offices being shut down.

That probably unfortunately played a role as Nintendo didn't have their dev teams in their offices working how they normally would work and for a critical generational leap, that probably didn't help at all. The early stages of Switch 2 software development was likely impacted and given Nintendo was probably already looking at some time period to adjust to a big jump in performance, all of that could easily have put them behind 8-12+ months.

i fear that due to the pandemic, this might impact Nintendo plans to do a consistent cadence of releasing on it next hardware

 

[bmfrosty]

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[bmfrosty]

well you dont bite the hand that feed you(if Nintendo want third-parties that up to date/day one on Switch sucessor, they need to treat well the third-parties, unless Nintendo want, Capcom, Square Enix and many more avoid it next console like a plague, oh you want Monster Hunter Wild/Resident Evil 9, Dragon Quest 12, GTAVI on Switch sucessor, too bad to you, you mistreated us, here your rewards, no suport for us)

I won't support Switch even if it means being fired for refusing and neglecting my fiduciary duties!

I think if Switch 2 is capable of taking PS4 ports, it's going to get every new game that's capable of being supported on PS4 unless there's some contractual reason (sony/square cough) that they can't.

 

[darthdiablo]

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[bmfrosty]

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[Rogue Agent]

You are not missing anything.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Steve]

well you dont bite the hand that feed you

I mean… Nintendo mostly feed themself. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if game studios are 50/50 with them either understanding or slightly annoyed. Because most people won’t buy a switch 2 to play third party games. If a 4-6 month delay means a higher likelihood on success then it’s understandable.

Like Nintendo once relied on third party support, when the Wii U launched and most of them straight up lied and gave up. Like Ubisoft ported rayman legend when they said It’ll be a exclusives

It’s not like Sony and Microsoft since they heavily relies on third parties, meanwhile Nintendo relies on themself.

 

[Goodtwin]

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[seyfeselassie]

 

[omniryu]

I'm doubtful that they can.

Honestly, I think their plans involve a lot of gamecube, DS, Wii, and 3DS remasters as filler content. We kinda have it now with another code, paper mario, etc.

 

[bmfrosty]

Honestly, I think their plans involve a lot of gamecube, DS, Wii, and 3DS remasters as filler content. We kinda have it now with another code, paper mario, etc.

I think there's quite a list to be made of games starting with GameCube that Nintendo could port to the Switch. I can think of 5 zelda, 3 metroid, and 3 new super mario titles off the top of my head.

 

[omniryu]

I think there's quite a list to be made of games starting with GameCube that Nintendo could port to the Switch. I can think of 5 zelda, 3 metroid, and 3 new super mario titles off the top of my head.

yeah, I can see it too. I am thinking we might have two more remaster for the Switch and everything else will be a focus Switch 2. Now that I think about it. This is how we will get our 4K 60 games quota filled faster, that and indie games.

 

[AxkilAvenger]

Honestly, I think their plans involve a lot of gamecube, DS, Wii, and 3DS remasters as filler content. We kinda have it now with another code, paper mario, etc.

F Zero GX Remastered would carry me till 2026.
That’s all I have to add

 

[Maxrunner]

Can’t read the Darknut’s post. Seems like you need to have made a 1000 posts to read it. Insane!

Who's darknut?

 

[Hajeman]

Pretty much why the most successful ports for the Switch were competently made, like Skyrim, Witcher 3, Doom and Nier automata and dragon quest 11

If studios only want to develop lazily made ports, then people won’t want to buy and get the game. It’s as simple as that. So hopefully this time around developers won’t force a port and for example dragon dogma 2 isn’t possible, then that’s that.

But maybe I’m miss reading your statement since English is my third language sadly.

I'm really hope that DD2 find it's way to Switch 2 next year. I bought DDDA $5 for Switch Lite two weeks ago and I'm really likes it's so much. Already at L39 Magick Archer

 

[SnowydayUK]

Nintendo is strange that Brazil guy said we are getting a Indie Direct in March

 

[Maxrunner]

"Dragon's Dogma 2 also offers ray tracing as a graphics option, but other than mildly improving the ambient lighting, the hit to the performance isn't really worth it. For example, with the RTX 4070 Ti, the average fps drop was around 20% without any upscaling, which is pretty good and it's a smaller drop in the city area, but you'll probably not want to bother with it."

Another game with no interesting use of RT.

Dragon's Dogma 2 performance analysis: It'll take everything your PC has and still want more

I hope you have a top-end CPU and GPU because you're really going to need them.

www.pcgamer.com

Overall, assuming that the MH Wilds trailer is accurate for being an open world game with many monsters on screen with AI routines, it's not looking good for the Switch 2.

i thought the new monster hunter trailer was a bit meh but maybe its just me.

 

[KarlRemarx]

Honestly, I think their plans involve a lot of gamecube, DS, Wii, and 3DS remasters as filler content. We kinda have it now with another code, paper mario, etc.

The requirements to bring games of those generations to modern standards for a remaster don't really make them "filler" content to round out a schedule. You could maybe get away with some 3DS stuff ported over with HD assets added (e.g. the Kirby 3DS games), but there is no "remastering" a DS game, it requires assets rebuilt from scratch, at which point Nintendo would wonder why they're devoting resources to that instead of new software with a higher market potential. We've already seen what Nintendo thinks about gamecube/wii software - they either get significant work done to improve assets or add content (Metroid Prime Remastered, Kirby RtD Deluxe, Paper Mario TTYD), or they are ported over as-is with no remastering and either heavily discounted or bundled (Pikmin 1 and 2, Mario 3D All-Stars).

Switch was a relatively unique situation in terms of being a great candidate for re-releasing a generation of HD-ready games from 1 generation prior that had criminally undersold. It'll be harder to do that again because they would need to look at older software that requires more resources to bring to a reasonable standard.

 

[lattjeful]

Since I know it's frequently discussed here in relation to Switch 2, here's the Fortnite portion of the Unreal Engine 5.4 talks from State of Unreal:



Lots of cool changes, but interesting to note is that VRS for Nanite is now a thing, there are lightweight Niagara emitters, instance culling has been improved, and parallelism in the renderer has also been improved. Those four in particular could be a pretty nice boon for clawing back some image quality and performance boosts for Switch 2.

 

[ziggyrivers]

 

[omniryu]

but there is no "remastering" a DS game, it requires assets rebuilt from scratch, at which point Nintendo would wonder why they're devoting resources to that instead of new software with a higher market potential

While that's very true, a lot of people forget that even remaking a game like another code is that a lot of time is still being saved. Pre-production time is reduced since you already have the concept down. Story and dialogue are already there. Even if you have to rebuild assets, you're going to get a short production time than a brand new game.

 

[fwd-bwd]

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[CypressFX]

@NateDrake

Hey Nate, this is the 2nd episode without answering StreamLabs questions?

Whats the matter with those (I submitted a question months ago…)

 

[ziggyrivers]

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Nintendo is strange that Brazil guy said we are getting a Indie Direct in March

That's speculation. Not sure.

 

[KarlRemarx]

While that's very true, a lot of people forget that even remaking a game like another code is that a lot of time is still being saved. Pre-production time is reduced since you already have the concept down. Story and dialogue are already there. Even if you have to rebuild assets, you're going to get a short production time than a brand new game.

For sure, stuff where you can just drop in new assets will continue to be good candidates for rereleases (F-Zero GX, Kirby, Kid Icarus, Punch Out Wii etc are all great because they would still be considered mostly content complete in the current market, so aside from initial engineering work to deliver the game logic on better hardware, most of the requirements are new art assets). My concern is more that Nintendo will have to think a bit harder about the resource cost of e.g. assigning artists in their studios to a remaster project vs something brand new that tends to have a higher sales potential. With WiiU to Switch it was obviously a no-brainer.

 

[bmfrosty]

The requirements to bring games of those generations to modern standards for a remaster don't really make them "filler" content to round out a schedule. You could maybe get away with some 3DS stuff ported over with HD assets added (e.g. the Kirby 3DS games), but there is no "remastering" a DS game, it requires assets rebuilt from scratch, at which point Nintendo would wonder why they're devoting resources to that instead of new software with a higher market potential. We've already seen what Nintendo thinks about gamecube/wii software - they either get significant work done to improve assets or add content (Metroid Prime Remastered, Kirby RtD Deluxe, Paper Mario TTYD), or they are ported over as-is with no remastering and either heavily discounted or bundled (Pikmin 1 and 2, Mario 3D All-Stars).

Switch was a relatively unique situation in terms of being a great candidate for re-releasing a generation of HD-ready games from 1 generation prior that had criminally undersold. It'll be harder to do that again because they would need to look at older software that requires more resources to bring to a reasonable standard.

It doesn't require assets built from scratch, if it's a port. GameCube on and DS on if it's a port. Emulate anything previous. I'd say emulate GameCube if it weren't for the controller.

Make them discount titles to fill in the transition time.

 

[Concernt]

It doesn't require assets built from scratch, if it's a port. GameCube on and DS on if it's a port. Emulate anything previous. I'd say emulate GameCube if it weren't for the controller.

Make them discount titles to fill in the transition time.

While I think Wii, 3DS and Wii U are inevitably only coming from ports, I still think we'll get a DS NSO app due to how small the games are, how simple the emulation is (relatively speaking), and how good it works on a single screen. I didn't use the "Top Screen TV, Touch Screen GamePad" on DS VC on Wii U, I used the single screen options and the games are still great.

 

[bmfrosty]

While I think Wii, 3DS and Wii U are inevitably only coming from ports, I still think we'll get a DS NSO app due to how small the games are, how simple the emulation is (relatively speaking), and how good it works on a single screen. I didn't use the "Top Screen TV, Touch Screen GamePad" on DS VC on Wii U, I used the single screen options and the games are still great.

It's an interesting thought. It becomes really interesting if there's some sort of screen casting available - at least for games where the action is on the top screen and menus are on the bottom screen.

 

[Kevin]

Marvel 1942: Rise of Hydra, a game from Amy Henning which I hear is a fully single player game with gameplay elements similar to the Uncharted series. The game was shown at the Unreal Engine 5.4 event today. Everything shown is real-time in-engime and they mentioned no trickery. Basically what you see is what you get:

Trailer:



Tech presentation:



This looks absolutely freaking crazy gorgeous. Damn near real life visuals. Nintendo with these visuals is probably 30 years out at this point but damn can I dream of seeing Metroid with these visuals or Star Fox or how crazy Zelda or Mario could look (with their own art styles of course).

Tech has come a long way and I got to say, Nintendo is feeling archaic as hell these days. I know I know, we've all been wanting anything new from Nintendo as this point. Really hope the Switch 2 us something special. Won't reach these visuals but I hope it's still a significant upgrade over the really dated tech we have now.

2025 is going to be HYPE!!!

 

[Semi Lazy Gamer]

 

[Dakhil]

 

[Lancelot]

Marvel 1942: Rise of Hydra, a game from Amy Henning which I hear is a fully single player game with gameplay elements similar to the Uncharted series. The game was shown at the Unreal Engine 5.4 event today. Everything shown is real-time in-engime and they mentioned no trickery. Basically what you see is what you get:

Trailer:



Tech presentation:



This looks absolutely freaking crazy gorgeous. Damn near real life visuals. Nintendo with these visuals is probably 30 years out at this point but damn can I dream of seeing Metroid with these visuals or Star Fox or how crazy Zelda or Mario could look (with their own art styles of course).

Tech has come a long way and I got to say, Nintendo is feeling archaic as hell these days. I know I know, we've all been wanting anything new from Nintendo as this point. Really hope the Switch 2 us something special. Won't reach these visuals but I hope it's still a significant upgrade over the really dated tech we have now.

2025 is going to be HYPE!!!

We're not all that far, I dare to say... Targeting docked with a massive budget should give us something like this, assuming this amazing real time achievement (it definitely is for those that haven't watched the demo) is running on console.

 

[Jake]

What are the chances that buncle is referring to PS5 Pro rather than Switch 2? I mean, the PS5 Pro is rumored to come this holiday, so wouldn't stuff about that leak before Switch 2?
Edit: I know the specs have already leaked, but I'm talking about what the PS5 Pro will actually look like, like how much bigger it could possibly be compared to the base PS5 and PS5 Slim

 

[boodream]

There are only so many games Nintendo can realistically have lineup up and prepared for release. The Wii U was such a flop that it allowed them to recycle the bulk of Wii U's first party titles and release them on Switch. Nintendo did have a lot of brand new titles prepared for Switch, but if you were to remove all the Wii U ports, the release schedule would not have been nearly as consistent. Is it possible or reasonable to think that Nintendo can have a dozen first party games lined up for the first year on the market? I'm doubtful that they can.

I think there's quite a list to be made of games starting with GameCube that Nintendo could port to the Switch. I can think of 5 zelda, 3 metroid, and 3 new super mario titles off the top of my head.

The question will undoubtedly come up later, but for now, between the remaining Wii U games (WW HD, TP HD, XCX, Yoshi WW), possible 3DS ports like Luigi's Mansion 2 (Samus Returns, SM3DL, Todomachi, Kid Icarus), Gamecube ports like Paper Mario (Prime 2, Starfox Assault, Luigi's Mansion, F-Zero GX, Mario Party Superstars Gamecube) or Wii ports such as Pikmin HD (DK Country Returns, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Prime 3), we can think of a dozen possible options to fuel the Switch 2's early life cycle and feed its library alongside unreleased games).

Sometimes you gotta make the compromise of risking a few hiccups in a game, of course nothing game-breaking. I hope Nintendo understands that not even their own games can all be TotK'd in terms of QA and optimization.

At one point, we go from "wanting to secure a solid stream of game releases" into "too afraid of doing something for their own good".

In my opinion, Nintendo has known this for a long time. We've already seen first party games on Switch lack polish or content, and personally I think that's pretty bad news. And it's nothing new. Games like Sunshine or The Wind Waker were already clearly lacking in development time, unfortunately. Not everything has to be as polished as TOTK, but I'm rather worried that Nintendo will stop caring as much about the quality of its games as the other way round, so it's a reproach I don't share at all, personally.

if Nintendo can't sell first party games, then their own games won't sell. they can be pissed all they want, but the alternative is worst for them


it's not going to do anything. not supporting a system because it launched 3-6 months late just shows you're not cut out to be in business

any situation where they have to rely on third parties always turned out bad for them. doesn't matter what third parties do show up, if their own games can't make it, then the hardware should be delayed

"Third parties pissed at Nintendo for X reasons"

some things seem to never change. As long as Switch 2 sells they can grumble all they want

Absolutely. It's getting a bit tiresome. I'm always very surprised when people try to characterize companies as if they had human feelings. So Nintendo is supposedly "selfish", and third-party publishers are supposedly "pissed off". This makes no sense at all. Third-party publishers aren't going to die for a 6-month delay. Nintendo has already released a console in a hurry so as not to miss the end of the year, resulting in a total of 13 million copies for the Wii U. I don't think third-party publishers prefer that to a slightly delayed console like the Switch, but one that sold very well. Let's stop allocate our own impatience to others.

the fact that Nintendo delays the Switch 2 due to first party games not bekng ready could also indicate that Nintendo is unsure themselves about the kind of third party ports that will be released in the launch window? Red dead redemption 2 and other older games? Yeah the Wii U launch window already shows that you don't want your new console launch to be dominated by ports of pretty old games.

What I'm about to say seems obvious, but if the Switch 2 is comparable to the PS4 in terms of performance, which we all expect at the very least, then it will simply be able to run games released on PS4. I don't see why RDR2 or Elden Ring couldn't run on Switch 2, and more importantly, I don't see what a 6-month delay would change to the overall sales or commercial viability of these ports. Whether you're releasing for Christmas or to launch a new console, your games are in the spotlight. We've seen this with Skyrim or Doom, for example, on Switch 1.

 

[ILikeFeet]

finally able to watch the UE5 updates. shame there wasn't any talk of mobile desktop renderer, but I hope more people play with it, cause I want to see what lumen can do at the low end

 

[Giancarlo]

I mean… Nintendo mostly feed themself. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if game studios are 50/50 with them either understanding or slightly annoyed. Because most people won’t buy a switch 2 to play third party games. If a 4-6 month delay means a higher likelihood on success then it’s understandable.

Like Nintendo once relied on third party support, when the Wii U launched and most of them straight up lied and gave up. Like Ubisoft ported rayman legend when they said It’ll be a exclusives

It’s not like Sony and Microsoft since they heavily relies on third parties, meanwhile Nintendo relies on themself.

true true, but despite third-parties not be essencial as they are to Sony/Microsoft, is important Nintendo treat the third-parties well, doing this will not only have amazing games by Nintendo, but also to third-parties, and hopefully day one with the others consoles

 

[Steve]

In my opinion, Nintendo has known this for a long time. We've already seen first party games on Switch lack polish or content, and personally I think that's pretty bad news. And it's nothing new. Games like Sunshine or The Wind Waker were already clearly lacking in development time, unfortunately. Not everything has to be as polished as TOTK, but I'm rather worried that Nintendo will stop caring as much about the quality of its games as the other way round, so it's a reproach I don't share at all, personally.

The only unpolished first party games would be smaller Nintendo title made from smaller teams and especially Mario sports game's
Overall the quality outputs for their larger games has been nothing short as phenomenal. But like I said the Mario-sport-party and smaller Team project.
This generation there hasn’t been a truly awful first party game, mostly Mediocre.
Not like the Wii U in which we had animal crossing amibo festival, who here remembers that.

Also on another note, what makes sunshine and windwaker sad is that it was pushed out because the lack of third party support on the GameCube and also how the GameCube was a absolute commercial failure (their was a time when they sold GameCubes for 50 dollar a piece, which is crazy)

 

[Vanillalite]

Haven’t been talked about for a while

AND

I realize everyone’s setup is different…

Still need this shit to leak and have some people run some WiFi tests to see if the WiFi is still slow AF. (Yes I realize wired is better) Need that improved WiFi ASAP.

 

[Shoulder]

I don't really care when it comes anymore, I wanted it with Zelda Tears of the Kingdom. Since that didn't happen, until the next big game from Nintendo is releasing on current Switch hardware, I'm just going to enjoy my games on other platforms for now. However, we are in a speculation thread, so I'm just trying to speculate on new information.

I actually predicted March 20th…today for some announcement, and that didn’t go so well.

At this point, if March 2025 is the launch, then I see a OG Switch style announcement happening in October.

 

[Maxrunner]

Marvel 1942: Rise of Hydra, a game from Amy Henning which I hear is a fully single player game with gameplay elements similar to the Uncharted series. The game was shown at the Unreal Engine 5.4 event today. Everything shown is real-time in-engime and they mentioned no trickery. Basically what you see is what you get:

Trailer:



Tech presentation:



This looks absolutely freaking crazy gorgeous. Damn near real life visuals. Nintendo with these visuals is probably 30 years out at this point but damn can I dream of seeing Metroid with these visuals or Star Fox or how crazy Zelda or Mario could look (with their own art styles of course).

Tech has come a long way and I got to say, Nintendo is feeling archaic as hell these days. I know I know, we've all been wanting anything new from Nintendo as this point. Really hope the Switch 2 us something special. Won't reach these visuals but I hope it's still a significant upgrade over the really dated tech we have now.

2025 is going to be HYPE!!!

The hilarious part is that these doesnt show a game at all. that's just visuals attempting to emulate real life. in fact that's the main industry goal unfortunately.

 

[yohoopzcrazy]

Ya'll want a hint as to how Drake was able to run the Matrix demo?



Epic has been making some serious efforts to improve all the pipelines of UE5. Quoting the timestamp of the video above:

With the city sample demo that shipped on 5.0, our console tests showed us that the render thread time was reduced by -50%, and the GPU time decreased by -25%.

He also mentions performance improvements on Lumen, shadows and ray tracing, plus VRS support for Nanite and some other nice optimizations for instance culling and parallelism.

I wonder if the Gamescom demo showcased last year were already including these improvements (or at least a part of them)?

 

[Shoulder]

Or...or... we could take the developer at their word when they explicitly say that the game is intensive on older CPUs due to the nature of what they're simulating for the player and large numbers of NPCs in a dynamic world, something that is borne out by not only multiple sources doing performance analysis thus far but by literally anyone with understanding of CPU/GPU load observing the game and where it has difficulties?

RDR2 is not offering DD2's level of simulation, and BotW/TotK's performance issues (outside of alpha effects) directly relate to the same kind of physical simulation DD2 is offering, but with DD2 implementing them on a larger scale with higher fidelity.

I might get some flack for saying this, but if the developers are complaining about the hardware, it’s still a problem that needs solving. Now we do see similar issues with PCs in general with some newer games, but some of that could also be in part to developers pushing too much for how fast hardware is advancing.

Hardware does not appear to advance as fast as it has in the past, and as such I’m wondering if some companies are still thinking in that bubble from 10-20 years ago of where hardware was improving so rapidly. We don’t live in that age anymore, and I doubt we'll see another leap forward like that until a revolution in technology comes around.

Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if some game engines are just that inefficient, and have such bloated coding, on top of the development crunches, limited budgets in other cases, and the relatively recent adage of “Fix it in post.” It might all compound into a nasty habit of un-optimized software that trickles down again and again.

I'm only speculating here though.

 

[Steve]

Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if some game engines are just that inefficient, and have such bloated coding, on top of the development crunches, limited budgets in other cases, and the relatively recent adage of “Fix it in post.” It might all compound into a nasty habit of un-optimized software that trickles down again and again..

A good example would be the creation engine from Bethesda, shit is running only on hopes and dreams. Thats why i think it’s easier just using an engine like unreal instead of in-house. (Depends though, quote me if I’m wrong)

We’re are currently seeing it now with Nintendo how smaller teams are using unreal engine, meanwhile the Mario and Zelda team use their in-house engine.
Like princess peach and pikmin 4 are using unreal 4

 

[boodream]

The only unpolished first party games would be smaller Nintendo title made from smaller teams and especially Mario sports game's
Overall the quality outputs for their larger games has been nothing short as phenomenal. But like I said the Mario-sport-party and smaller Team project.
This generation there hasn’t been a truly awful first party game, mostly Mediocre.
Not like the Wii U in which we had animal crossing amibo festival, who here remembers that.

Also on another note, what makes sunshine and windwaker sad is that it was pushed out because the lack of third party support on the GameCube and also how the GameCube was a absolute commercial failure (their was a time when they sold GameCubes for 50 dollar a piece, which is crazy)

Exactly, the first example that springs to mind is Mario Strikers. Then there's Mario Golf. Another example is the Nintendo Switch Sports, which received relatively late updates. That's why I don't agree at all with the idea that Nintendo is supposedly too rigid in this area. On the contrary, I think there has already been a pragmatic evolution on their part in this respect, and to be honest I don't like it, because I think it undermines Nintendo's singularity and identity as a brand.

I simply don't understand why a delay of a few months would upset publishers or gamers so much, to the point of almost regretting that quality is too much of a preoccupation. It's a good thing that there are still developers who have the time and the right to try, to experiment, to make mistakes, to be perfectionists.

Questioning this because we want a new console as FAST as possible is simply something I don't like. Yes, sports games are not Zelda. That doesn't mean it's a good thing to release games that are obviously incomplete, regardless of their scale or type, at least in my opinion.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

A good example would be the creation engine from Bethesda, shit is running only on hopes and dreams. Thats why i think it’s easier just using an engine like unreal instead of in-house. (Depends though, quote me if I’m wrong)

We’re are currently seeing it now with Nintendo how smaller teams are using unreal engine, meanwhile the Mario and Zelda team use their in-house engine.
Like princess peach and pikmin 4 are using unreal 4

There is no conflict between using an in-house engine and using an external engine, EPD3 uses havok as well. my point is that a lot of the time the cost of in-house engines is often out of control, just look at how much 3A games cost these days.