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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Look over there said:
[*]what does this box offer to game design, again relative to a hybrid? Are we at a point with mobile/hybrid hardware (Drake being the particular example for this) where it has caught up just enough with game design, such that going forward, the progression of mobile tech keeps up well enough with the evolution of game design? In other words, at so and so time, sure, a big stationary box has the power to unlock higher complexity in game design, but would it be significantly/meaningfully more?
Click to expand...
It's definitely subjective, but I feel like Switch got pretty dang close to this. Enough of the major PS4 games showed up on it that what remained stationary-only (for technical reasons rather than Yakuza developer reasons or moneyhat reasons) was pretty narrow. This time around the potential for something meaningful with the standard SSD storage is maybe interesting, but with still 90% of games cross-gen it hasn't been very important yet.
oldpuck said:
I think it's hard to tell what the next feature will be. It will likely be hardware accelerated AI, but it might not be. Or it may get so rapidly integrated that by the next gen, that is a given and there is a leap beyond that one. There are likely to be innovations in cloud streaming, VR, and massive procedural generation over the next generation as well, and while a hybrid can theoretically offer all these possibilities, not only are set top boxes generally better positioned, they're better positioned across the board on these things.
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Once Quest showed up, VR systems that required connection to a stationary box started seeming pretty archaic to me. Some technical advantage, but much more cost and hassle.
 
Mr.Gamerson said:
You can only pick up to 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
Click to expand...
On top of my head with games I personally played.

  1. SMT V - this game has shitty performance
  2. Xenoblade 1 & 2 - really blurry especially in handheld mode
  3. Breath of the Wild - Fix dips below 30 fps
  4. Links Awakening - Performance drops when loading something on the map
  5. Dragon Quest XI - 60 fps patch, otherwise performance is very smooth
  6. Romance of the Three Kingdoms XIV - laggy but I've put up with it. Although this request is impossible since KOEI hates this game so much. A 60 fps patch is all I ask.
  7. Monster Hunter Stories 2 - Performance is disappointing even in battle. Just look at the final battle video in Youtube, you'll see.
  8. Final Fantasy 12 - 60 fps patch although not really needed. The game is enjoyable as it is.
  9. Most "impossible" ports
 
Dakhil said:
www.hpcwire.com

Nvidia Shuts Out RISC-V Software Support for GPUs

Nvidia is not interested in bringing software support to its GPUs for the RISC-V architecture despite being an early adopter of the open-source technology in its GPU controllers. Nvidia has no plans to add RISC-V support for CUDA, which is the proprietary GPU software platform, a company...
www.hpcwire.com www.hpcwire.com
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They use it for security right? If they opened it up to software development, it could be bypassed I imagine
 
Z0m3le said:
They use it for security right? If they opened it up to software development, it could be bypassed I imagine
Click to expand...
I think this in reference to the CUDA software framework not supporting RISC V, meaning if you built a server running RISC V CPUs and using Nvidia GPUs, you couldn’t use NVidia’s CUDA toolkit. Confusing because they just say “CUDA” here and it’s not clear they just mean the parallel programming libraries not access to the cores.

Relevant to our discussion of when Nvidia leaves ARM behind. Jensen is basically saying “not for a while”
 
0
With that absolutely GLORIOUS SOC breakdown from ReddDreadtheLead, I think I'm fully convinced of its capabilities. Now I just want to actually SEE it!

My speculation, per some of the earlier posts in this thread, would be something like this:

Black Joy-Con. (No other changes, not even to the sticks.)
Black Nintendo Switch Dock with LAN Port (Same as the Neon Red and Blue OLED Model), if this is part of the same family and the family already has a 4K dock, doesn't make sense not to use it.
A wraparound kickstand like the HP Spectre, same hinges as the OLED Model, moved to give the motherboard more room.
Possibly the same fan assembly as the OLED Model, but I think the old assembly from the V1 could do the trick with redesigned ventilation, so a larger exhaust at the top, and a combination of slim, OLED Model intakes at the bottom and ovular, Lite-esque intakes above the kickstand (this layout happens to line up with the existing intakes of the Dock With LAN Port.)
Very similar shell to the OLED Model, only possibly metal.
The same screen as the OLED Model, but maybe HDR capable?

While tempting to say this device should use all-new parts for everything, as I understand it this is still a device in the Nintendo Switch family of systems. It might not even have a different logo on the back.

I also think price optimisation would be paramout to its design, reuse as many components as possible without sacrificing graphical grunt, optimise supply lines, exploit economies of scale, because a LOT of the price of this device is going to be in the silicon, and that's pretty inelastic, so where they CAN save money to keep this beast under $500/500€, I think they will.

As for confusion in advertising, the OLED Model is always shown with its default White dock, I imagine the new model would simply always be shown with its dock being black. I also suspect the V2 could be discontinued so they can stop making its weirder, older dock, fan assembly, can focus everything on OLED screen orders to share between the TV capable Nintendo Switches on shelves. Or they could do a quiet redesign of the V2 with the OLED Model motherboard, fan assembly and dock and minimise external changes.

Either way, I WANNA SEE HOW THIS THING LOOKS BEFORE I DIE!

Edit: in case Raccoon sees this and starts to worry, I don't think it'll be any bigger than the OLED Model, and if it is, only by a mm from Joy-Con to Joy-Con, negligible.
 
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Look over there said:
what does this box offer to game design, again relative to a hybrid? Are we at a point with mobile/hybrid hardware (Drake being the particular example for this) where it has caught up just enough with game design, such that going forward, the progression of mobile tech keeps up well enough with the evolution of game design? In other words, at so and so time, sure, a big stationary box has the power to unlock higher complexity in game design, but would it be significantly/meaningfully more?
Click to expand...
Unless VR takes off in a big way, I can't really think of anything. The SSDs in the PS5 and Xbox Series seem like the last piece of the puzzle needed to enable most gameplay scenarios. You could certainly leverage higher processing power to create more complex and realistic simulations, but that doesn't necessarily make for fun gameplay. For instance, a game with ultra-realistic destruction where no two walls collapse the same way may look impressive and sound cool in theory, but most good gameplay is generally built around a set of predictable outcomes. You don't need exponential increases in processing power for that.

In my opinion, new ways to control and interact with games are much more likely to result in truly new game design.
 
Concernt said:
With that absolutely GLORIOUS SOC breakdown from ReddDreadtheLead, I think I'm fully convinced of its capabilities. Now I just want to actually SEE it!

My speculation, per some of the earlier posts in this thread, would be something like this:

Black Joy-Con. (No other changes, not even to the sticks.)
Black Nintendo Switch Dock with LAN Port (Same as the Neon Red and Blue OLED Model), if this is part of the same family and the family already has a 4K dock, doesn't make sense not to use it.
A wraparound kickstand like the HP Spectre, same hinges as the OLED Model, moved to give the motherboard more room.
Possibly the same fan assembly as the OLED Model, but I think the old assembly from the V1 could do the trick with redesigned ventilation, so a larger exhaust at the top, and a combination of slim, OLED Model intakes at the bottom and ovular, Lite-esque intakes above the kickstand (this layout happens to line up with the existing intakes of the Dock With LAN Port.)
Very similar shell to the OLED Model, only possibly metal.
The same screen as the OLED Model, but maybe HDR capable?

While tempting to say this device should use all-new parts for everything, as I understand it this is still a device in the Nintendo Switch family of systems. It might not even have a different logo on the back.

I also think price optimisation would be paramout to its design, reuse as many components as possible without sacrificing graphical grunt, optimise supply lines, exploit economies of scale, because a LOT of the price of this device is going to be in the silicon, and that's pretty inelastic, so where they CAN save money to keep this beast under $500/500€, I think they will.

As for confusion in advertising, the OLED Model is always shown with its default White dock, I imagine the new model would simply always be shown with its dock being black. I also suspect the V2 could be discontinued so they can stop making its weirder, older dock, fan assembly, can focus everything on OLED screen orders to share between the TV capable Nintendo Switches on shelves. Or they could do a quiet redesign of the V2 with the OLED Model motherboard, fan assembly and dock and minimise external changes.

Either way, I WANNA SEE HOW THIS THING LOOKS BEFORE I DIE!

Edit: in case Raccoon sees this and starts to worry, I don't think it'll be any bigger than the OLED Model, and if it is, only by a mm from Joy-Con to Joy-Con, negligible.
Click to expand...

The grey Joy con are not available anymore as individual purchase. So this might be an option. The OLED and all variants (Splatoon, Pokémon) focus on the white dock. Drake might be back to black as the main option.

Or they add another set outside neon and simple grey/white/black, like the Splatoon color gradients or the animal crossing pastel colors. Those two Joy Con have been the most popular design wise.

yDif3Le.jpg


I‘d be fine with simple grey/black:

TW6sdeo.jpg
 
mariodk18 said:
This is maybe a weird question, but what would a “withered technology” Drake look like?
Click to expand...
I don't really think there is a way forward like that anymore. "Lateral thinking with withered technology" (which, according to the man who said it, Gunpei Yokoi, involves novel new uses for mature, cheap-to-produce and well understood technologies) doesn't work when mature technologies have had all the novelty wrung out of them; we have entered a period in technological development (in the entertainment industry especially) where most to all mature technologies are already in active use and there is little novelty that remains unexplored, at least for quite some time to come. 3DS was probably the last hurrah with its stereoscopic 3D screen and the public largely didn't care for it.
 
Concernt said:
With that absolutely GLORIOUS SOC breakdown from ReddDreadtheLead, I think I'm fully convinced of its capabilities. Now I just want to actually SEE it!

My speculation, per some of the earlier posts in this thread, would be something like this:

Black Joy-Con
Black Nintendo Switch Dock with LAN Port
Click to expand...
Black is so Sony.

They will go with GameCube purple and you will LIKE IT!
 
Analogue triggers and a better d-pad (or a d-pad option full stop on the joycon). Additionally a joycon/controller that switched the position of the d-pad and left stick so it's more comfortable for 2D games (or for people that prefer symmetrical sticks I guess)

Something I've been wondering about is how much effort it would be to have a switch between digital and analogue triggers (ie something that let you turn off the full trigger range altogether or even something that physically limited the travel distance to act like a digital trigger)
 
0
Controversial opinion, analogue triggers are niche in their use case and most of the time digital triggers are better, so I would omit analogue triggers.

Personally just stronger HD rumble and magnetic hall sensing analogue sticks, having used them on my GuliKit controller nothing comes close to them for accuracy and durability. Would fix drift permanently.
 
ShaunSwitch said:
Controversial opinion, analogue triggers are niche in their use case and most of the time digital triggers are better, so I would omit analogue triggers.

Personally just stronger HD rumble and magnetic hall sensing analogue sticks, having used them on my GuliKit controller nothing comes close to them for accuracy and durability. Would fix drift permanently.
Click to expand...
Any game that involves driving cars is much worse with digital triggers.
 
ertaboy356b said:
On top of my head with games I personally played.

  1. SMT V - this game has shitty performance
  2. Xenoblade 1 & 2 - really blurry especially in handheld mode
  3. Breath of the Wild - Fix dips below 30 fps
  4. Links Awakening - Performance drops when loading something on the map
  5. Dragon Quest XI - 60 fps patch, otherwise performance is very smooth
  6. Romance of the Three Kingdoms XIV - laggy but I've put up with it. Although this request is impossible since KOEI hates this game so much. A 60 fps patch is all I ask.
  7. Monster Hunter Stories 2 - Performance is disappointing even in battle. Just look at the final battle video in Youtube, you'll see.
  8. Final Fantasy 12 - 60 fps patch although not really needed. The game is enjoyable as it is.
  9. Most "impossible" ports
Click to expand...
Good picks.

1080p/60fps Astral Chain patch (think it’s dynamic 900p/30fps currently).
 
Polygon said:
Good picks.

1080p/60fps Astral Chain patch (think it’s dynamic 900p/30fps currently).
Click to expand...
Zelda’s dips below 30fps should be automatically fixed on Drake, even without a patch.
I think it’s reasonable to expect a real upgrade like at least 1080p and solid 60fps.
Even more amazing would be proper HDR implementation imo
 
ShaunSwitch said:
Controversial opinion, analogue triggers are niche in their use case and most of the time digital triggers are better, so I would omit analogue triggers.

Personally just stronger HD rumble and magnetic hall sensing analogue sticks, having used them on my GuliKit controller nothing comes close to them for accuracy and durability. Would fix drift permanently.
Click to expand...
Agreed, I love to have the click close by on my trigger buttons. Playing an FPS with modern "press it without resistance for a kilometer before hitting the click" triggers feels bad man.

How are PS5 controllers in this regard with their trendy resistance triggers?
 
L_esson said:
Zelda’s dips below 30fps should be automatically fixed on Drake, even without a patch.
I think it’s reasonable to expect a real upgrade like at least 1080p and solid 60fps.
Even more amazing would be proper HDR implementation imo
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Nintendo can limit the frequency to match the og switch for bc. The Wii U did not have an improved Wii mode that could have fixed games like The Last Story.
 
ertaboy356b said:
Not necessarily. Nintendo can limit the frequency to match the og switch for bc. The Wii U did not have an improved Wii mode that could have fixed games like The Last Story.
Click to expand...
As much as I’d love that to be wrong, it may end up being the case indeed, like most 3DS games on New 3DS (unfortunately). Well, I guess?

I don’t think there’s been much discussion on this specific topic, but I guess we’d need to know more about Nintendo’s plan for BC on a technical level.

Sadly I don’t have much technical insight, but I’d love some kind of confirmation and reassurance on this from some folks here.
Having a proper BC but without any improvements just like it was on New 3DS and Wii U would be a huge bummer, and even more so if we don’t get patches for the most notable games.
 
Dakhil said:
nintendoeverything.com

Switch dev talk - 50,000 yen for a kit, Capcom wants to make AAA games, much more

Earlier today, the Game Creators Conference was held in Japan. At the event, Nintendo’s Masaru Mitsuyoshi held a joint session with Capcom’s Masaru Ijuin about Switch. One big thing to get out of the way: Switch development kits. These are planned for a cost of roughly 50,000 yen. If you’re...
nintendoeverything.com nintendoeverything.com
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You provide the information that I heard too all over the internet including multiple developers sharing their experience.

Yes it`s hard now to optimise to the Switch, because games are getting optimised more and more to the Ps5 and the Xbox Series.
However the first 2 years every developers said that it was very easy to port to the Switch and the time consuming part was just the tweaking for the hybrid nature of the console.
 
cw_sasuke said:
Assuming we get a Next Gen Switch Pro Controller with the launch of Drake - what are the most wanted features you would would wanna see ?
Click to expand...
  • Scroll wheel shoulder buttons
  • Back buttons or paddles
  • No analog triggers, or at least a way to lock them for digital-like short travel.
 
cw_sasuke said:
Assuming we get a Next Gen Switch Pro Controller with the launch of Drake - what are the most wanted features you would would wanna see ?
Click to expand...
My wishlist:
  • Low latency Bluetooth + Headphone jack on Joycons and Procon.
  • Front camera with movement recognition software for improved motion control. Sorta like the IR pointer in the Wii. I find this a good use of the tensor cores in lighter games where DLSS is not needed.
 
Mildudon said:
This could be such reletiv powerfull console if it was not hold back by the handheld part.
Click to expand...
The chip is designed around being a hybrid mobile device. It wouldn't exist as "not a handheld".

And it is already shaping up to be a relatively powerful console, mobile or home. It doesn't need to match the Series S to be that.
 
Is it just me or is GTA 6 for drake a lock? It seems GTA 6 is coming to last gen platforms and drake should be more than capable of running the game. I expect a big expansion to come for GTA 6 a few years down the line that is exclusive to current gen. Hopefully drake is strong enough to get that version as well or we may get GTA 6 and 7 in a single generation.
 
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