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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

I was reading/lurking this thread for a while and figured I should ask this here:

Is the assumption/most-likely-scenario at this point that nintendo will stick with the exact same controllers/devices as before (excluding the non-4k capable Switch dock) and won't add any controller/device features to their official hardware (e.g. camera, microphone, improved bluetooth/wifi, underside buttons, analog triggers, improved analog sticks, etc.)?


Joy-Cons could be compatible via wireless, there is nothing stopping them doing that. But I don't think they will be compatible physically since they could be somewhat different that it won't fit, as for the features the controller will have new ones that's almost certain.
 
Any chance the gold paint on the ZOLED Joy-Cons means that the system clock speeds will run higher than regular SWOLEDs? Asking for a friend.

That is a ridiculous question.......Of course it does.

10HP-01_1024x1024@2x.jpg
 
Opened twitter and the 4 trending topics on the left are: BOTW, TOTK, Switch 2 and 60 fps lol. Not surprising, but hilariously enough my timeline is filled with people ordering the Zelda Oled
 
I was reading/lurking this thread for a while and figured I should ask this here:

Is the assumption/most-likely-scenario at this point that nintendo will stick with the exact same controllers/devices as before (excluding the non-4k capable Switch dock) and won't add any controller/device features to their official hardware (e.g. camera, microphone, improved bluetooth/wifi, underside buttons, analog triggers, improved analog sticks, etc.)?
The only Nintendo console that didn't update the control scheme in some way was the GameBoy color. So while there is no evidence of new inputs, I wouldn't say that's the most likely scenario.

Drake removes the camera hardware from the SOC, so I doubt a camera, but it's not impossible, just weird if they do add one. Nintendo is actually using an excellent BT/WiFi chip right now, but there are other design problems that limit it's power, and those could change. While we have some possible factory leaks about the casing, I've not heard anything related to the Joy-Con, so it's not inconceivable they add or update something there.
 
I feel rather unsettled with the news about Boundary devs removing raytracing from their game, and not using DLSS in favor of FSR & XeSS.


DLSS is going to be a main advantage with Drake, so the thought that a dev won't use it because of a similar situation more or less forcing "exclusion" is unsettling.
 
I was reading/lurking this thread for a while and figured I should ask this here:

Is the assumption/most-likely-scenario at this point that nintendo will stick with the exact same controllers/devices as before (excluding the non-4k capable Switch dock) and won't add any controller/device features to their official hardware (e.g. camera, microphone, improved bluetooth/wifi, underside buttons, analog triggers, improved analog sticks, etc.)?
The dock is already 4K capable and the device from what we know appears to fall within the power delivery envelope of the existing AC Adaptor. While I think new Joy-Con are possible, and perhaps a little likely, I wouldn't expect major changes. Certainly none that would interfere with compatibility.
 
I feel rather unsettled with the news about Boundary devs removing raytracing from their game, and not using DLSS in favor of FSR & XeSS.


DLSS is going to be a main advantage with Drake, so the thought that a dev won't use it because of a similar situation more or less forcing "exclusion" is unsettling.
It's one thing to not offer a specific GPU vendor feature. Another to refuse to use all the hardware in a console, especially when that console is otherwise underperforming.

If FSR delivers sufficient quality and performance, who cares that it's not using DLSS, and if it doesn't deliver sufficient quality and perf, how much money does AMD need to throw at a company to make it commercial viable to release jank? I find it hard to imagine that AMD can offer a developer enough money to tank the quality of a Nintendo port, while still actually doing the port.
 
Quoted by: SiG
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Joy-Cons could be compatible via wireless, there is nothing stopping them doing that. But I don't think they will be compatible physically since they could be somewhat different that it won't fit, as for the features the controller will have new ones that's almost certain.
Sure, and charge them with well-wishes and fairy dust.

Have to be physically compatible to charge, that doesn't stop them from improving the Joy-Con Rail for the next generation of Joy-Con, but ultimately this is a slim, dockable tablet console, and there isn't much that can be changed by way of the functions it has to perform. If having to dock, having to be a handheld, have a kickstand, and work in TV Mode result in a mandate for a similar or close-to-identical formfactor, even if the design changes there's no reason to break compatibility with existing accessories, including Joy-Con.
 
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Not that I disagree, but weren't we saying this about the base game months ago 😛
Surely THIS time!

I feel rather unsettled with the news about Boundary devs removing raytracing from their game, and not using DLSS in favor of FSR & XeSS.


DLSS is going to be a main advantage with Drake, so the thought that a dev won't use it because of a similar situation more or less forcing "exclusion" is unsettling.
I chalk this up to Nvidia co-marketing long since pass because of delays and AMD swooped in and gave them money for no dlss or RT
 
Wait, Forbes contributors are getting paid?? I thought this was just someone using it as a blog host like Medium or some shit

Like, this weird take would make sense if this was just an elaborate forum post, because without being linked to Forbes it holds abolutely no weight or merit whatsoever
They’re getting paid to shitpost, yes.

I’d love a job like that 🤭
I was reading/lurking this thread for a while and figured I should ask this here:

Is the assumption/most-likely-scenario at this point that nintendo will stick with the exact same controllers/devices as before (excluding the non-4k capable Switch dock) and won't add any controller/device features to their official hardware (e.g. camera, microphone, improved bluetooth/wifi, underside buttons, analog triggers, improved analog sticks, etc.)?
Well, we assume it’ll be a switch in the same vein as how the 3DS is a DS2 in all but name.

We just don’t expect a Wii U to the Wii scenario.

It’ll be similar enough that you can recognize the thing as a Nintendo switch system, but different enough to where you can tell it’s not the switch, Switch lite or the OLED system but something completely different that has its uniqueness in which it affects games. The rest will offer general improvements on a hardware level to the switch just like how the 3DS supported newer Wi-Fi standards that the DS didn’t support.
 
Hmm so it's pretty much a shoe in we'll get an enhanced port or patch for Switch 2 for Totk..

Best time to announce Switch 2 though? At least 3 months after Totk comes out. Then it becomes a matter of time whether it comes out end of year or next year. Perhaps with the first Totk DLC if we're lucky, or with that rumored DLC patch for Pokemon Scarlet/Violet.
 
Hmm so it's pretty much a shoe in we'll get an enhanced port or patch for Switch 2 for Totk..

Best time to announce Switch 2 though? At least 3 months after Totk comes out. Then it becomes a matter of time whether it comes out end of year or next year. Perhaps with the first Totk DLC if we're lucky, or with that rumored DLC patch for Pokemon Scarlet/Violet.
If it's an enhanced port rather than a simple patch I will eat my own slippers.
 
Hmm so it's pretty much a shoe in we'll get an enhanced port or patch for Switch 2 for Totk..

Best time to announce Switch 2 though? At least 3 months after Totk comes out. Then it becomes a matter of time whether it comes out end of year or next year. Perhaps with the first Totk DLC if we're lucky, or with that rumored DLC patch for Pokemon Scarlet/Violet.

"Shoe-in" is way too strong of language.

Obviously there will be a lot of demand for a native port that has extremely high IQ, 60 FPS, HDR, shorter load times, and less pop-in.

Will it happen? IDK.
 
I'm sorry if I interrupt the discussion but I still don't understand if it will be Samsung or Tsmc to create the die process for Nintendo redacted.
No one knows for certain. There are compelling arguments for both.
 
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I'm sorry if I interrupt the discussion but I still don't understand if it will be Samsung or Tsmc to create the die process for Nintendo redacted.
We don't know.
There is a lot of speculation but nothing is for sure.

BTW don't be afraid to disrupt the discussion. You can post here whatever fits the title of the thread,no matter what is being discussed at the moment.
 
The dock is already 4K capable and the device from what we know appears to fall within the power delivery envelope of the existing AC Adaptor. While I think new Joy-Con are possible, and perhaps a little likely, I wouldn't expect major changes. Certainly none that would interfere with compatibility.
So, if they try to port the 120 Fps Ori 2 with DLSS to 4K, can the current dock handle that?
 
I know why they wouldn’t be upfront about new hardware before this game launches, but damn do I wish I knew if it was coming this year. I’ve half a mind to just play Redfall until Diablo IV comes out, then move onto that and ignore the Switch entirely.

Zelda is just not hitting the mark for me right now. Fantastic IQ would be enough to turn that around.
 
The biggest demand for an existing Switch game was for Smash Ultimate to get rollback and other features to make the online function.

Nintendo did not do that.

So they don't always respond to very strong demand for a feature.
Isn't that pretty CPU intensive? Such that even some games that use it other platforms don't for the Switch version. I don't think Smash not using it should be taken as much more meaningful than it not supporting 4K or 120fps. Smash is already one of the games preventing video capture so it can suck in that extra bit of system resources.
 
They can get away with a formal announcement of Switch 2 Next Generation Nintendo Switch console. Just the name and confirmation of backwards compatibility and no other information this year. This way due to lack of marketing Switch 1 sales and Zelda sales won't slow down from people waiting. Then around the end of the a full blowout with a short marketing timeframe for a March 2024 release along with Mario 3D Platformer, Pokémon SV Port and Zelda TotK port (free upgrades for previous owners). As for the quiet 2nd half of 2023 they can fill the lineup with basic ports/remasters like F Zero GX, Yoshi's Wooly World, Xenoblade X and etc, maybe some smaller new games like a Tamodatchi sequel and expansions/DLC for games like Switch Sports.
 
The biggest demand for an existing Switch game was for Smash Ultimate to get rollback and other features to make the online function.

Nintendo did not do that.

So they don't always respond to very strong demand for a feature.

To be fair that's because Nintendo did not care at all for the fighting game community. They had zero interest in Smash become an eSports title and have done very little to actively participate in eSports tournaments and have pulled out of Evo (which, despite now being owned by Sony, they still could've been a part of but have made very nonsensical decisions regarding Smash Ultimate tournaments that it is unsurprising they could care less about Evo.)

Rollback? What for? Better online? Ha, don't make me laugh. We're in the good graces of Nintendo Switch Online!!! Everything is fine there...
 
They obviously have their reasons, the main one being it’s not ready. Not releasing this with Zelda is a miss. You launch new hardware with Mario or Zelda. So, that means that a new Mario is coming by Q1 24.
I think so too. That would be the most logical thing.
 
Isn't that pretty CPU intensive? Such that even some games that use it other platforms don't for the Switch version. I don't think Smash not using it should be taken as much more meaningful than it not supporting 4K or 120fps. Smash is already one of the games preventing video capture so it can suck in that extra bit of system resources.

It's possible that CPU usage is why they didn't implement it, but it's probably more likely that their engine has non-easily reversible things in it (such as the visuals being tied to game logic)

I would imagine that if it were a CPU issue, they could have found optimizations to save cycles in the four years after release to implement rollback and they did not.

Anyway, if a game improvement has a lot of demand but is fairly hard to do, it should not be assumed to be super likely.
 
It's possible that CPU usage is why they didn't implement it, but it's probably more likely that their engine has non-easily reversible things in it (such as the visuals being tied to game logic)

I would imagine that if it were a CPU issue, they could have found optimizations to save cycles in the four years after release to implement rollback and they did not.

Anyway, if a game improvement has a lot of demand but is fairly hard to do, it should not be assumed to be super likely.
Given the kind of game smash is, doing rollback for 8 characters is just out of the cards. There's no optimization that can solve that outside of new hardware
 
The biggest demand for an existing Switch game was for Smash Ultimate to get rollback and other features to make the online function.

Nintendo did not do that.

So they don't always respond to very strong demand for a feature.

"very strong demand" is being very generous. Smash Ultimate is the third best selling Switch game (last I checked) and the percentage of those sales coming from people who even know what rollback means has got to be less than 5%. We have to remember that we're by and large the minority of gamers... for every 1 of us, there's 100 casual gamers who don't know anything about what we're talking about.

Nintendo has always focused on that majority and has done very well financially even if it irritates us at times.
 
I was reading/lurking this thread for a while and figured I should ask this here:

Is the assumption/most-likely-scenario at this point that nintendo will stick with the exact same controllers/devices as before (excluding the non-4k capable Switch dock) and won't add any controller/device features to their official hardware (e.g. camera, microphone, improved bluetooth/wifi, underside buttons, analog triggers, improved analog sticks, etc.)?
Many of the existing peripherals will likely remain compatible (though not necessarily in full capacity), but I think the safe bet is definitely that Nintendo will produce new ones to go with the new hardware. Nintendo is not known to start a new generation without making some sort of change to their controllers.
 
It's one thing to not offer a specific GPU vendor feature. Another to refuse to use all the hardware in a console, especially when that console is otherwise underperforming.

If FSR delivers sufficient quality and performance, who cares that it's not using DLSS, and if it doesn't deliver sufficient quality and perf, how much money does AMD need to throw at a company to make it commercial viable to release jank? I find it hard to imagine that AMD can offer a developer enough money to tank the quality of a Nintendo port, while still actually doing the port.
Err...don't several games use AMD FSR though? I don't think there isn't anything in the clause that says "you can't use this tech on Nintneod consoles" i.e. Sony moneyhat style.
 
"very strong demand" is being very generous. Smash Ultimate is the third best selling Switch game (last I checked) and the percentage of those sales coming from people who even know what rollback means has got to be less than 5%. We have to remember that we're by and large the minority of gamers... for every 1 of us, there's 100 casual gamers who don't know anything about what we're talking about.

Nintendo has always focused on that majority and has done very well financially even if it irritates us at times.

While people were not specifically demanding rollback netcode, I would be pretty shocked if people did not want functional online for Smash Ultimate, a multiplayer focused game that has sold over 30m copies.

Rollback netcode is just a necessary (though not sufficient) condition for Smash eventually getting functional online.

I would think that many more people would want a Smash Ultimate next-gen patch with functional online than a TotK next gen patch that was high IQ, 60 FPS, HDR, short load times (and I think that would have a huge amount of demand)
 
How does the competition handle this? Zelda TotK is at $70 because the competition set that precedent. If Sony and Microsoft were still at $60, TotK would have been $60. So if you buy a game on PS4 and then get a PS5, has Sony been doing free patches? Microsoft?

Horizon Forbidden West was a free upgrade, God of War Ragnarok and GT7 were $10 (but the PS4 versions were $10 cheaper)
 
The biggest demand for an existing Switch game was for Smash Ultimate to get rollback and other features to make the online function.

Nintendo did not do that.

So they don't always respond to very strong demand for a feature.
I thought Sakurai responded to that and it might've been either "everyone is here" or Rollback netcode. They didn't have the scope to do both.
 
The biggest demand for an existing Switch game was for Smash Ultimate to get rollback and other features to make the online function.

Nintendo did not do that.

So they don't always respond to very strong demand for a feature.

If Nintendo relaunched Smash Bros Ultimate for Switch 2 with GGPO and Fighter Pass 3 I think there would be a lot of hype. They can also minor cosmetic additions like TotK Link and Zelda. Some new stages as well. And of course 4K Docked support.
 
How does the competition handle this? Zelda TotK is at $70 because the competition set that precedent. If Sony and Microsoft were still at $60, TotK would have been $60. So if you buy a game on PS4 and then get a PS5, has Sony been doing free patches? Microsoft?
TotK's price most likely has more to do with regional parity than anything Sony and Microsoft are doing. Nintendo has had a higher price tier in non-US regions for some time now.

MS has generally been treating the X1 and XS ports of games as a single logical entity, albeit still technically separate behind the scenes. When a native XS port becomes available, the system will offer to replace the X1 version as functionally an update.

Sony generally treats PS4 and PS5 ports as separate entities, and the upgrade path is a very case by case thing.

I don't think Nintendo will exactly copy either of them, but, based on the constraints they'll be faced with and their historical idiosyncrasies, I think the user experience will probably be closer to Xbox.
 
Given the kind of game smash is, doing rollback for 8 characters is just out of the cards. There's no optimization that can solve that outside of new hardware
Only because this piqued my curiousity, what kind of new hardware would be required to offer the kind of optimization Smash Ultimate needs? Is it something as simple as higher CPU clocks, better/dedicated servers, a combination of the above or something else entirely?
 
"very strong demand" is being very generous. Smash Ultimate is the third best selling Switch game (last I checked) and the percentage of those sales coming from people who even know what rollback means has got to be less than 5%. We have to remember that we're by and large the minority of gamers... for every 1 of us, there's 100 casual gamers who don't know anything about what we're talking about.

Nintendo has always focused on that majority and has done very well financially even if it irritates us at times.
Idk, smash is a party game but it also seems like it’s a core oriented game. So I don’t think it’s as insignificant
 
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Only because this piqued my curiousity, what kind of new hardware would be required to offer the kind of optimization Smash Ultimate needs? Is it something as simple as higher CPU clocks, better/dedicated servers, a combination of the above or something else entirely?
Better cpu. More cores, more clock, etc. There's a good bit the cpu has to keep track of and the more things to keep track of, the more cpu you need

 
Thanks for the answers.

The dock is already 4K capable and the device from what we know appears to fall within the power delivery envelope of the existing AC Adaptor. While I think new Joy-Con are possible, and perhaps a little likely, I wouldn't expect major changes. Certainly none that would interfere with compatibility.
Yeah i worded myself crudely but basically i meant how the pre-OLED docks aren't capable of processing 4K so it wouldn't work well with a 4K capable Switch Redacted.
Joy-Cons could be compatible via wireless, there is nothing stopping them doing that. But I don't think they will be compatible physically since they could be somewhat different that it won't fit, as for the features the controller will have new ones that's almost certain.

Many of the existing peripherals will likely remain compatible (though not necessarily in full capacity), but I think the safe bet is definitely that Nintendo will produce new ones to go with the new hardware. Nintendo is not known to start a new generation without making some sort of change to their controllers.

It’ll be similar enough that you can recognize the thing as a Nintendo switch system, but different enough to where you can tell it’s not the switch,
So the consensus i'm getting is it's more likely that nintendo will make "2.0" joycons that are very similar to the switch joycons but with some minor changes/improvements/added-features specifically for the Switch Redacted then.

The only Nintendo console that didn't update the control scheme in some way was the GameBoy color. So while there is no evidence of new inputs, I wouldn't say that's the most likely scenario.

Drake removes the camera hardware from the SOC, so I doubt a camera, but it's not impossible, just weird if they do add one. Nintendo is actually using an excellent BT/WiFi chip right now, but there are other design problems that limit it's power, and those could change. While we have some possible factory leaks about the casing, I've not heard anything related to the Joy-Con, so it's not inconceivable they add or update something there.
i must have missed the part about the Orin originally having camera hardware. I had camera on the list mainly because I was thinking about features that the WiiU/3DS had that seem like they could very easily be added back as well as some ways that the joycons desperately could use some improvement.
 
The biggest demand for an existing Switch game was for Smash Ultimate to get rollback and other features to make the online function.
Isn't that pretty CPU intensive?
To be fair that's because Nintendo did not care at all for the fighting game community..
It's possible that CPU usage is why they didn't implement it, but it's probably more likely that their engine has non-easily reversible things in it (such as the visuals being tied to game logic)
Given the kind of game smash is, doing rollback for 8 characters is just out of the cards. There's no optimization that can solve that outside of new hardware

Sakurai has said they implemented rollback netcode in Ultimate during development but that the "side effects were too big."

Smash is built by an independent company, and Sakurai has never been a Nintendo employee. While Nintendo drove the roster for Ultimate, by all accounts it is otherwise entirely his baby, and Nintendo knows no one else can really deliver it. The man is a Walking Video Game encyclopedia, and hand balanced almost all of Smash, as well as performance tuned the engine, and has published an extensive video series on game fundamentals that uses Smash as a basis, explaining concepts like separation of concerns in the engine.

The idea that Sakurai is indifferent to the desires of the eSports community, or there is too much technical debt in the engine to implement it is ... difficult to believe. Nintendo might not give a crap about the online state of Smash, but that's not why rollback netcode isn't in Smash. Rollback netcode isn't in Smash because Sakurai, who would rather go personally bankrupt than deliver anything less than as-close-to-perfection-as-possible couldn't make it work, simple as that
 
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