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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

The highest I can see is $450 and even that is really expensive. With the OLED they show that they have no problem increasing the price and sitting on it but Nintendo has been engaging in the market of keeping high price and holding it for a while. They increase value through bundles and do limited price dropping. We know from market research that discounting often causes buyers to be positioned to wait for price drops.

Sony kept the price of the PS4 high all gen with only black friday showing significant discounts. A $100 drop and then just road $300 into the sunset. I could see Nintendo start at $400 and bring it to $300 permanently after a few years.

There is 0 chance they launch a $500 system. The amount of market they cut out is huge and they aren't going to to discount the system $150-$200 over its lifetime.
 
My two cents - Nintendo will never go above $399 because of their target market. Even for an enthusiast 'Pro' model.

And in 2016, people were saying Nintendo would never price a portable console anywhere near $250 again.

Yet here we are!

My post to which you were responding is to question that Bloomberg report. There is no official Sony financial documents stating that it ever broke even; at least none that I could find.

Yea I edited my post.

Mochizuki cited the Sony CFO saying the $500 model is no longer selling at a loss by last August.

So the question is whether you believe Sony or not. They certainly didn’t try to correct Mochizuki or try and sue him lol
 
pricing will always also be balanced by Nintendo's own market data about what the market will bear. I agree that given PS5 has shown people will buy consoles at $499, the taboo isn't there anymore and inflation is real.

But if Nintendo has market data showing $399 is the right price, they will get it there. The memory of the 3DS debacle must alsoo still be fresh in their minds.
At this time my guess is also $399-449 being the most likely price range.

I think the taboo of not losing money on consoles is also rather fluid since they more than likely sold the Wii U at a loss as well. The only confirmation of profitability we have was Reggie saying it was profitable after a game sale at launch. The way it was phrased was clear the console itself was probably sold below cost.

My two cents - Nintendo will never go above $399 because of their target market. Even for an enthusiast 'Pro' model.

When it comes to the next and any future higher end Switch models, I think it all comes down to perceived value and whether Nintendo can fully showcase how advanced this device is in actuality.

They can easily ask $450 -$500 if we see this device cuts no corners to achieve its goals of the perfect hybrid device with decent battery life as well... My bet is definitely for $450 though and in the near future seeing a new entry to the Switch Lite model that gives something much closer to that mass market price point.
 
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Assuming those leaked GPU specs are right we're essentially talking about a portable that can possibly run games within spitting distance of the PS5. Them charging a PS5 level price for this certainly is a real possibility.
 
Assuming those leaked GPU specs are right we're essentially talking about a portable that can possibly run games within spitting distance of the PS5. Them charging a PS5 level price for this certainly is a real possibility.

Not in portable mode it sure isn’t (which is what every Switch game has to be designed around)

And now we have gone from ~ps4 pro gaming quality docked to spitting distance from ps5??
 
My two cents - Nintendo will never go above $399 because of their target market. Even for an enthusiast 'Pro' model.
Right now is the best time to take advantage of it due to supply constraints. I think you underestimate Nintendo. And if we are getting a portable x series s, people will definitely see the value.

We'll see. Nintendo isn't Sony. With Switch they didn't care a out slashing console prices of e en 1st party games permanently.

I 100% expect it to be $400-450 for Switch 2. It will be at least $100 more than the current switch OLED model.

Not expecting an OLED screen at launch, but it. would happen. It likely will in it's lifetime.
 
Not expecting an OLED screen at launch, but it. would happen. It likely will in it's lifetime.
You're not expecting an OLED screen on Drake? I've been figuring this whole time that the OLED model is basically Dane's screen and chassis with a Mariko chip, because Nintendo upgraded more than just the screen. Plus if I understand correctly the OLED screen requires a lot less power to run than the standard LED, so that would free up more wattage (right?) for the more powerful SoC.
 
Calm down guys, it just sounds like he wants to be very sure on his information and/or get enough data from enough sources to obscure his sources properly
Everyone is calm. It’s assumed he has to wait because sources want him to wait or he needs to gather new info that won’t be coming for a little while.

He was ready to make a video on it as he said when the leak happened. But sources probably want him to wait or new info is coming to wait a little longer so he doesn’t discuss outdated info.
 
I’m gonna be honest with everyone here, and this is due to multitude of factors here, but I think that regardless if Nintendo prices it at 400, 450 or even 500, selling at a loss is possibly unavoidable from the hardware perspective. There’s the shortages to be accounted for, there’s the war that makes transportation more difficult, there’s the possibility of it being on a better node that’s more expensive or on a worse node that requires a much bigger silicon (so it’s expensive either way), there’s newer components such as the newer RAM, etc, etc, etc.

400 people were already doubting, 450 people were accepting and 500 people did not want to believe, with the idea that they do not like selling at a loss.


Though, this time it isn’t like they don’t have a massively successful that still is selling software really well, and a subscription service that still is an extra bonus on top of the accessories.

In this year alone, they’ll have massive multimillion sellers with Pokémon, Splatoon, the Mario Kart DLC, Zelda (presumably this year 🤭, could change but doesn’t detract from my point) and smaller titles that it would benefit from this like Bayonetta, Kirby, Xenoblade, etc.
 
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Personally I'm not too perturbed by the prospect of a premium Drake Switch being priced at $450+ (and perhaps a dock/accessory-less SKU for $400). It's actually a good product strategy to target more market segments via price/product differentiations.

What baffles me, however, is that the current Lite and hybrid models may not have enough legs to last for more than a couple more years, and sooner than later they will need to be upgraded to the new platform standard (Drake SoC, wider memory, faster storage, etc.) while ideally maintaining their respective price points at $200 and $300-$350. Looking at the rather high-end specs being speculated in this thread, I'm not sure how that could be accomplished.

Even if we humor this idea that Nintendo somehow manages to release a Drake-capable Lite and hybrid for $200-$350, it'd destroy the value of the $450 premium Switch and alienate their most loyal early adopters (owners of the $450 Drake).

A potential solution to this conundrum is to double down on the price/product differentiations by introducing two Switch tiers a la Xbox Series X and S. But unlike MS who released both tiers simultaneously, Nintendo would introduce the premium tier (let's call it Switch DX for now) first to capture the enthusiast/early adopter segment, and the standard tier 2-3 years later for the mainstream/casual markets.

Switch DXSwitch SSwitch Lite S
2022-20232024-20252025-2026
Drake (12 SM, 8 A78), 128-256GBDane (6 SM, 4-6 A78), 64GBBinned Dane, 32GB
Hybrid + enthusiast features (e.g., live streaming)HybridHandheld only

IMO the staggered release of tiered products is a superior strategy because it not only allows Nintendo to extract more value from the higher-end segment sooner, but also drives down production costs and builds a larger software catalog in advance of the lower tier launch.

While this speculated lineup may seem unlikely, it isn't impossible either for the following reasons:
  • The mysteriously disappeared Dane may make a triumphant return
  • Orin ADAS (5w-10w) and Jetson Nano Next are being released in 2023; could be related to Dane
  • The software compatible layer developed for Drake to run TX1 titles might simplify the support for yet another SoC (Dane)
  • Cross-gen games that run on both TX1 and Drake should be able to support Dane easily
  • Drake exclusive games already give up on the 100 million TX1 installed base; it's no great loss if they aren't patched to support Dane
If this model works out, Nintendo may sustain it by introducing the Switch 2DX in, say, 2027-2028 with a new SoC and new gimmicks; 2-3 years later, the Switch 2S and Lite 2S may follow with a die-shrunk/refreshed Drake. Rinse and repeat for a tick-tock iterative succession plan.

Edit: typo
 
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Calm down guys, it just sounds like he wants to be very sure on his information and/or get enough data from enough sources to obscure his sources properly

Could be any number of reasons. Could be waiting for MVG to get back from GDC in case he’s able to dig up something new
 
Personally I'm not too perturbed by the prospect of a premium Drake Switch being priced at $450+ (and perhaps a dock/accessory-less SKU for $400). It's actually a good product strategy to target more market segments via price/product differentiations.

What baffles me, however, is that the current Lite and hybrid models may not have enough legs to last for more than a couple more years, and sooner than later they will need to be upgraded to the new platform standard (Drake SoC, wider memory, faster storage, etc.) while ideally maintaining their respective price points at $200 and $300-$350. Looking at the rather high-end specs being speculated in this thread, I'm not sure how that could be accomplished.

Even if we humor this idea that Nintendo somehow manages to release a Drake-capable Lite and hybrid for $200-$350, it'd destroy the value of the $450 premium Switch and alienate their most loyal early adopters (owners of the $450 Drake).

A potential solution to this conundrum is to double down on the price/product differentiations by introducing two Switch tiers a la Xbox Series X and S. But unlike MS who released both tiers simultaneously, Nintendo would introduce the premium tier (let's call it Switch DX for now) first to capture the enthusiast/early adopter segment, and the standard tier 2-3 years later for the mainstream/casual markets.

Switch DXSwitch SSwitch Lite S
2022-20232024-20252025-2026
Drake (12 SM, 8 A78), 128-256GBDane (6 SM, 4-6 A78), 64GBBinned Dane, 32GB
Hybrid + enthusiast features (e.g., live streaming)HybridHandheld only

IMO the staggered release of tiered products is a superior strategy because it not only allows Nintendo to extract more value from the higher-end segment sooner, but also drives down production costs and builds a larger software catalog in advance of the lower tier launch.

While this speculated lineup may seem unlikely, it isn't impossible either for the following reasons:
  • The mysteriously disappeared Dane may make a triumphant return
  • Orin ADAS (5w-10w) and Jetson Nano Next are being released in 2023; could be related to Dane
  • The software compatible layer developed for Drake to run TX1 titles might simplify the support for yet another SoC (Dane)
  • Cross-gen games that run on both TX1 and Drake should be able to support Dane easily
  • Drake exclusive games already give up on the 100 million TX1 installed base; it's no great loss if they aren't patched to support Dane
If this model works out, Nintendo may sustain it by introducing the Switch 2DX in, say, 2027-2028 with a new SoC and new gimmicks; 2-3 years later, the Switch 2S and Lite 2S may follow with a die-shrunk/refreshed Drake. Rinse and repeat for a tick-tock iterative succession plan.

Edit: typo
Changing the number of CPU cores between them is a bad idea, as is introducing a weaker system later. Series S works because it launched at the same time as X. Having some games be drake exclusive, some be on all Switches and some be on drake and dane but not OG Switch would be asking for consumer confusion as well.

A cut down version released later would only work if handheld mode on the Switch 4k turns off some SMs, then the cut down version could basically just have the hardware for the handheld versions of games, even when docked. But honestly that might not even be worth the effort. They’d probably be better off just dropping the Switch 4k’s price to $300-$350 when they phase out the normal Switch a few years after the 4k releases.
 
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You're not expecting an OLED screen on Drake? I've been figuring this whole time that the OLED model is basically Dane's screen and chassis with a Mariko chip, because Nintendo upgraded more than just the screen. Plus if I understand correctly the OLED screen requires a lot less power to run than the standard LED, so that would free up more wattage (right?) for the more powerful SoC.
How much less power does OLED switch draw vs V2 switch model? Seems to still be 6 watts in handheld mode vs V2 switch model according to one site. Can't find it anywhere else

The screen is more expensive though. Just thinking its more of a way for Nintendo to save money and use OLED screen on a revision as a way to justify the same price (or even make it more expensive with other features) for a revision as launch Drake.
 
How much less power does OLED switch draw vs V2 switch model? Seems to still be 6 watts in handheld mode vs V2 switch model according to one site. Can't find it anywhere else

The screen is more expensive though. Just thinking its more of a way for Nintendo to save money and use OLED screen on a revision as a way to justify the same price (or even make it more expensive with other features) for a revision as launch Drake.
That website seems to be talking about wattage for the system overall, not the display by itself. I can't quickly find a source either, but I could've sworn it was in this thread that someone showed the OLED display itself draws significantly less power than the OG screen. But it's late here and my eyes are heavy so forgive me for not digging. It was months ago at the very least. 😅
 
That website seems to be talking about wattage for the system overall, not the display by itself. I can't quickly find a source either, but I could've sworn it was in this thread that someone showed the OLED display itself draws significantly less power than the OG screen. But it's late here and my eyes are heavy so forgive me for not digging. It was months ago at the very least. 😅
The overall wattage for the system matters more. Perhaps for the OLED screen, it ended up having the same power draw as V2 because of the larger screen. There's a difference in max settings in battery life though.
 
I don't know what price the next Switch will cost, but I honestly don't think Switch OLED has any effect on the final price whatsoever. It's not an obstacle to a $399 price because Nintendo can drop the price for OLED any time they want. If it costs more than $399 that's simply because Nintendo finds that price point unacceptably non-profitable.
 
I don't know what price the next Switch will cost, but I honestly don't think Switch OLED has any effect on the final price whatsoever. It's not an obstacle to a $399 price because Nintendo can drop the price for OLED any time they want. If it costs more than $399 that's simply because Nintendo finds that price point unacceptably non-profitable.
But it makes no sense to only have a $50 price difference between OLED Switch and Switch 2..There's going to be $100 price difference at least, unless Nintendo really wants to screw over OLED users and kill future sales of it. We'll probably get a $50 price cut, and maybe Nintendo ceases v2 switch production. Or Switch 2 gets priced at $450, and OLED may not get a price cut in Switch 2's launch window. Will be interesting if v2 gets a price cut and when will they get phased out

I'm hoping when Switch 2 launches...

-OLED $299.99 (-$50)
-Switch 2 SKU 1. $399.99. 128-256 GB
-Switch 2 SKU 2. $449.99 2x the storage of SKU (for the enthusiasts) and something else. Really hope it's 512GB..
 
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But it makes no sense to only have a $50 price difference between OLED Switch and Switch 2..There's going to be $100 price difference at least, unless Nintendo really wants to screw over OLED users and kill future sales of it. We'll probably get a $50 price cut, and maybe Nintendo ceases v2 switch production. Or Switch 2 gets priced at $450, and OLED may I'd may not get a price cut in Switch 2's launch window. Will be interesting if v2 gets a price cut and when will they get phased out

I'm hoping when Switch 2 launches...

-OLED $299.99 (-$50)
-Switch 2 SKU 1. $399.99. 128-256 GB
-Switch 2 SKU 2. $449.99 2x the storage of SKU (for the enthusiasts) and something else. Really hope it's 512GB..
I can’t see them dropping the OLED’s price just one to one and a half years after it released.
 
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399€, 449€ or 499€... I won't lie, none of these prices will stop me from buying one. Heck, I'd probably go even further if the assumptions in this thread turn out to be true.

But I'm not "the masses"
Personally, I'm expecting 449€ max with a game (maybe Switch Sports) or even a subscription to the online service.
This, taking into account that it could be (at least at first) a premium model for those who want more... a bit like NN3DS.
 
Looking at the Nintendo switch, and then looking at these leaked specifications, I wanted to look at the pixel rate and the textile rate between the two. I should preface this by saying that these are assumptions, not 100% based on actual information from the data breach but simply based on other Nvidia cards, the Lovelace, Ampere and Maxwell architecture (the one in the switch), the PS4, XBOne, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. Granted they don't really mean that much across different architectures buuuut, it's interesting to know and the focus in the end will be about the Drake model in a speculative manner.


With that out if the way let me begin.

The switch contains 2 Streaming Multiprocessors with 256 CUDA cores, 16 Texture Mapping Units (TMUs) and 16 Render Output Units or Raster Operations Pipeline (ROPs).

Now, what does a TMU and a ROP do? I think Tom's Hardware does a nice job of putting it succinctly:

Texture Mapping Units (TMUs) Textures need to be addressed and filtered. This job is done by TMUs that work in conjunction with pixel and vertex shader units. It is the TMU's job to apply texture operations to pixels. The number of texture units in a graphics processor is used when comparing two different cards for texturing performance. It is reasonable to assume that the card with more TMUs will be faster at processing texture information.



Raster Operator Units (a.k.a. ROPs)The raster operation processors are responsible for writing pixel data to memory. The speed at which this is done is known as the fill rate. ROPs and fill rates used to be a much more important metric in the early days of 3D graphics cards. While the job of the ROPs is important, it is not really a performance bottleneck as much as it once was, and is not used as a relative performance indicator to good effect at this time.




So, how would we figure out the pixel fill rate and the textile rate of the switch? Well it is (ROP*Clock speed) for the Pixel/s and (TMU*Clock speed) for textile/s

With the switch having multiple GPU clock speeds, it comes down to this for the ones that I know of:

ROP affects this:
@ 307.2 MHz: (16*307.2)/1000= 4.915GPixel/s
@ 384 MHz (Xenoblade Resolution 🤭) : (16*384)/1000= 6.144GPixel/s
@ 460 MHz: (16*460)/1000= 7.36GPixel/s
@ 768 MHz: (16*768)/1000= 12.29GPixel/s

TMU affects this:
@ 307.2 MHz: (16*307.2)/1000= 4.915GTexel/s
@ 384 MHz: (16*384)/1000= 6.144GTexel/s
@ 460 MHz: (16*460)/1000= 7.36GTexel/s
@ 768 MHz: (16*768)/1000= 12.29GTexel/s

Note: I divided it by 1000 to make it easier to see.

Looks the same right? Well, it has both 16TMUs and 16 ROPs. And quite frankly, these were overkill for the device. So much for such a tiny package.



Now here is where the assumption starts, Ampere and Lovelace both have 16ROPs per GPC for all the cards except their data center cards who have 24 ROPs per GPC.

Unless they changed it themselves in the Ampere/Lovelace implementation for Drake, this is the same ROP for these clock frequencies:
@ 307.2 MHz: (16*307.2)/1000= 4.915GPixel/s
@ 384 MHz: (16*384)/1000= 6.144GPixel/s
@ 460 MHz: (16*460)/1000= 7.36GPixel/s
@ 768 MHz: (16*768)/1000= 12.29GPixel/s

and if we entertain higher clock speeds, then it is this:

@ 921 MHz: 14.736GPixel/s
@ 1267 MHz: 20.272GPixel/s

(Note: More does not necessarily mean better, there is such a thing as a "waste" if it is not necessary to have so much)

For the TMU it's not really as simple, Maxwell in the switch has 16TMUs for the one GPC, but in Ampere it seems like across the whole stack it ranges from 32 at the lower end per GPC and 48 TMUs per GPC at the higher end. So, considering that this is more likely akin to the lower stack of ampere I will assume it has 32TMUs, unless it was changed for reasons unbeknownst to us.

So it would look like this for the TMU:

@ 307.2 MHz: (32*307.2)/1000= 9.83GTexel/s
@ 384 MHz: (32*384)/1000= 12.29GTexel/s
@ 460 MHz: (32*460)/1000= 14.72GTexel/s
@ 768 MHz: (32*768)/1000= 24.576GTexel/s

for the ones curious on higher clocks:

@ 921 MHz: 29.472GTexel/s
@ 1267 MHz: 40.544GTexel/s


What can I conclude about this? Well, the pixel filtrate will likely stay the same, but the texel rate will double going from the Switch to the Drake model in both portable and docked mode. A healthy level of growth there if I do say so myself 😆



Here's just a brief comparison to the other consoles:

XBox ONE: 48TMUs/16ROPs @ 853MHz gives us 13.65GPixel/s and 40.94GTexel/s
XBox ONE S: 48TMUs/16ROPs @ 914MHz gives us 14.62GPixel/s and 43.87GTexel/s
XBox ONE X: 160TMUs/32ROPs @ 1172MHz gives us 37.50GPixel/s and 187.5GTexel/s
XBox Series S: 80TMUs/32ROPs @ 1565MHz gives us 50.08GPixel/s and 125.2GTexel/s
XBox Series X: 208TMUs/64ROPs @ 1825MHz gives us 116.8GPixel/s and 379.6GTexel/s


PlayStation 4: 72TMUs/32ROPs @ 800MHz gives us 25.60GPixel/s and 57.60GTexel/s
PlayStation 4 Pro: 144TMUs/32ROPs @ 911MHz gives us 29.15GPixel/s and 131.2 GTexel/s
PlayStation 5: 144TMUs/64ROPs @ 2233MHz gives us 142.9GPixel/s and 321.6GTexel/s

These:
XB1, PS4, XB1S, PS4 PRO, XB1X, can be compared with each other as they all use the same core architecture of GCN

These: XBSS, XBSX and PS5 can be compared with each other as they use RDNA2 (or its derivative)



Drake is a tricky comparison honestly, next to the AMD scenarios as Nvidia doesn't need as many to perform equally or better than their AMD equivalent.

Discuss.


The overall wattage for the system matters more. Perhaps for the OLED screen, it ended up having the same power draw as V2 because of the larger screen. There's a difference in max settings in battery life though.
the fan is more active on the OLED I presume since it is smaller and needs to work harder, but only in instances that are required.
 
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I think a MSRP of $499.99 is definitely a possibility. Not a very high possibility, but still a possibility. $499.99's probably the absolute max as far as the MSRP's concerned.

Although I don't believe a MSRP of $399.99 is impossible, I'm personally leaning towards a MSRP of $449.99.

At this point (chip shortages, inflation, war and further inflation and cost going up) I am not that sure that price point will be $399, at this point I would said that chances for $399 and $449 are similar (lets say around 40% each) for around 20% chanche being $499.

So $499 is absolute possible maximum that I could see and only in case that Nintendo has extremely low stock for 1st year that could sell (something like 5m at most),
so they could know it would sell in any case.


So something like this:

-Switch Lite $199
-OLED $299.99 (-$50)
-Switch 2 SKU 1. $399.99-$499
-Switch 2 SKU 2. (more memory, packed game) $449.99-$499


But it makes no sense to only have a $50 price difference between OLED Switch and Switch 2..There's going to be $100 price difference at least, unless Nintendo really wants to screw over OLED users and kill future sales of it. We'll probably get a $50 price cut, and maybe Nintendo ceases v2 switch production. Or Switch 2 gets priced at $450, and OLED may I'd may not get a price cut in Switch 2's launch window. Will be interesting if v2 gets a price cut and when will they get phased out

I'm hoping when Switch 2 launches...

-OLED $299.99 (-$50)
-Switch 2 SKU 1. $399.99. 128-256 GB
-Switch 2 SKU 2. $449.99 2x the storage of SKU (for the enthusiasts) and something else. Really hope it's 512GB..

Yeah, I could see something like that, but I don't see more than 128GB memory in regular/cheaper model, Nintendo would want to down cost in order to have lower price point/profit, and there is really no need for more memory when you could again easily expand memory by MicroSD.


And in 2016, people were saying Nintendo would never price a portable console anywhere near $250 again.

Yet here we are!

When people get knew that Switch is hybrid and much more than 3DS (so no just a handheld) almost no one said that, generally Switch price point was expected to be $249-299, there were plenty people saying that Switch needs to sell at $249 because at $299 would have similar sales like Wii U (lol).
 
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Why would they not charge $449 minimum? Things gonna be out of stock for years regardless.
I could see them originally aiming for $399, but due to inflation are forced to go for $429 or $449... whichever price doesn't sting on the eye.
 
I don't know what price the next Switch will cost, but I honestly don't think Switch OLED has any effect on the final price whatsoever. It's not an obstacle to a $399 price because Nintendo can drop the price for OLED any time they want. If it costs more than $399 that's simply because Nintendo finds that price point unacceptably non-profitable.
Nintendo hasn't lowered the price of the original Switch, they aren't lowering the OLED anytime soon...

Looking at the Nintendo switch, and then looking at these leaked specifications, I wanted to look at the pixel rate and the textile rate between the two. I should preface this by saying that these are assumptions, not 100% based on actual information from the data breach but simply based on other Nvidia cards, the Lovelace, Ampere and Maxwell architecture (the one in the switch), the PS4, XBOne, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. Granted they don't really mean that much across different architectures buuuut, it's interesting to know and the focus in the end will be about the Drake model in a speculative manner.


With that out if the way let me begin.

The switch contains 2 Streaming Multiprocessors with 256 CUDA cores, 16 Texture Mapping Units (TMUs) and 16 Render Output Units or Raster Operations Pipeline (ROPs).

Now, what does a TMU and a ROP do? I think Tom's Hardware does a nice job of putting it succinctly:






So, how would we figure out the pixel fill rate and the textile rate of the switch? Well it is (ROP*Clock speed) for the Pixel/s and (TMU*Clock speed) for textile/s

With the switch having multiple GPU clock speeds, it comes down to this for the ones that I know of:

ROP affects this:
@ 307.2 MHz: (16*307.2)/1000= 4.915GPixel/s
@ 384 MHz (Xenoblade Resolution 🤭) : (16*384)/1000= 6.144GPixel/s
@ 460 MHz: (16*460)/1000= 7.36GPixel/s
@ 768 MHz: (16*768)/1000= 12.29GPixel/s

TMU affects this:
@ 307.2 MHz: (16*307.2)/1000= 4.915GTexel/s
@ 384 MHz: (16*384)/1000= 6.144GTexel/s
@ 460 MHz: (16*460)/1000= 7.36GTexel/s
@ 768 MHz: (16*768)/1000= 12.29GTexel/s

Note: I divided it by 1000 to make it easier to see.

Looks the same right? Well, it has both 16TMUs and 16 ROPs. And quite frankly, these were overkill for the device. So much for such a tiny package.



Now here is where the assumption starts, Ampere and Lovelace both have 16ROPs per GPC for all the cards except their data center cards who have 24 ROPs per GPC.

Unless they changed it themselves in the Ampere/Lovelace implementation for Drake, this is the same ROP for these clock frequencies:
@ 307.2 MHz: (16*307.2)/1000= 4.915GPixel/s
@ 384 MHz: (16*384)/1000= 6.144GPixel/s
@ 460 MHz: (16*460)/1000= 7.36GPixel/s
@ 768 MHz: (16*768)/1000= 12.29GPixel/s

and if we entertain higher clock speeds, then it is this:

@ 921 MHz: 14.736GPixel/s
@ 1267 MHz: 20.272GPixel/s

(Note: More does not necessarily mean better, there is such a thing as a "waste" if it is not necessary to have so much)

For the TMU it's not really as simple, Maxwell in the switch has 16TMUs for the one GPC, but in Ampere it seems like across the whole stack it ranges from 32 at the lower end per GPC and 48 TMUs per GPC at the higher end. So, considering that this is more likely akin to the lower stack of ampere I will assume it has 32TMUs, unless it was changed for reasons unbeknownst to us.

So it would look like this for the TMU:

@ 307.2 MHz: (32*307.2)/1000= 9.83GTexel/s

This was one of the things we were discussing being a great solution if Drake Switch could disable SM's on the fly for portable mode.
Also I believe Drake having 12SM's would equal 48TMU's

930-block-diagram.jpg
 
I'm mostly a portable mode player, and the Switch OLED has been amazing.

What I'm really worried/afraid is that Nintendo decides to use LCD for their first version of the Switch 2/Pro/Super/Ultra.
 
I'm mostly a portable mode player, and the Switch OLED has been amazing.

What I'm really worried/afraid is that Nintendo decides to use LCD for their first version of the Switch 2/Pro/Super/Ultra.
One of the reasons many of us believe the OLED model exists is to shore up production lines for components that the next model with Drake will use. One of those being the screen.

It's always possible they go back to LCD screens but it's pretty unlikely I'd say.
 
I would only accept Nintendo returning to LCD if it's a mini-LED screen. But Mini-LED still costs more than OLED and we know from Bloomberg Nintendo got a deal with Samsung to buy their rigid OLED.
 
Nate literally said in the Spawncast that he's going to have an episode up with MVG this week before he leaves for GDC.

Not sure where the "we shouldn't expect an episode anytime soon" sentiment is coming from.
 
299 was the sweat spot where people were adding a Switch to their XBoxes/PS and families were buying one since it‘s Nintendo. 399 and above can only be an option if the Mariko model continues for 249-299 for those who also buy from scalpers.

My guess is they go with
Lite 179
LCD 249
New OLED 349
 
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I'm mostly a portable mode player, and the Switch OLED has been amazing.

What I'm really worried/afraid is that Nintendo decides to use LCD for their first version of the Switch 2/Pro/Super/Ultra.

All reports saying that today cost difference between OLED and LCD screen are smaller than ever (at least when we talk about phone/tablet form), so going back to LCD is highly unlikely.
 
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Nate literally said in the Spawncast that he's going to have an episode up with MVG this week before he leaves for GDC.

Not sure where the "we shouldn't expect an episode anytime soon" sentiment is coming from.
NateDrake mentioned at 1:57:08 that the episode about the DLSS model* will come at a future time since he's been doing research on the topic; and he feels that he's not at the point where he's ready to record an episode about the DLSS model*.


The episode NateDrake's going to do with MVG before MVG goes to GDC 2022 probably has nothing to do with the DLSS model*.
 
NateDrake mentioned at 1:57:08 that the episode about the DLSS model* will come at a future time since he's been doing research on the topic; and he feels that he's not at the point where he's ready to record an episode about the DLSS model*.


The episode NateDrake's going to do with MVG before MVG goes to GDC 2022 probably has nothing to do with the DLSS model*.


Ah ok. I was listening at 1:55:57 where he said "I'm sure MVG and I will have an episode this coming week before he leaves for GDC".

Wonder what they're going to talk about if it won't be on the next Switch.
 
Wonder what they're going to talk about if it won't be on the next Switch.
I think one of the topics is reactions to and discussions about Sony's State of Play presentation 3 days ago.

I would only accept Nintendo returning to LCD if it's a mini-LED screen. But Mini-LED still costs more than OLED and we know from Bloomberg Nintendo got a deal with Samsung to buy their rigid OLED.
Speaking about mini LED displays:
 
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I was expecting a price drop for OLED, having it take over the spot of the base model, a phase-out of the base model, and Drake at $400. But now, with the rampant inflation and continued manufacturing complications, plus the continued demand, I hate to say leaving the OLED where it's at and bringing Drake in at $450 sounds really possible. Normally I wouldn't bite at that price point, but Xenoblade 3 might sway me. 😩
 
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I don't know what price the next Switch will cost, but I honestly don't think Switch OLED has any effect on the final price whatsoever. It's not an obstacle to a $399 price because Nintendo can drop the price for OLED any time they want. If it costs more than $399 that's simply because Nintendo finds that price point unacceptably non-profitable.
Nintendo hasn't lowered the price of the original Switch, they aren't lowering the OLED anytime soon...



This was one of the things we were discussing being a great solution if Drake Switch could disable SM's on the fly for portable mode.
Also I believe Drake having 12SM's would equal 48TMU's

930-block-diagram.jpg
wasn't it dependent on the GPC?

If not, then the numbers would look like this(unless changed unbeknownst to us):

@ 307.2 MHz: (48*307.2)/1000= 14.74GTexel/s
@ 384 MHz: (48*384)/1000= 18.43GTexel/s
@ 460 MHz: (48*460)/1000= 22.08GTexel/s
@ 768 MHz: (48*768)/1000= 36.864GTexel/s

for the ones curious on higher clocks:

@ 921 MHz: 44.208GTexel/s
@ 1267 MHz: 60.816GTexel/s
 
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It is what it is. Bandwidth requirements are growing more quickly than efficiency is improving, and there's no other memory type available that would offer substantially better energy efficiency, so they're just inherently limited by power consumption. The most power efficient solution is to combine whatever RAM solution you have with a healthy on-die cache, to keep memory accesses on-die as much as possible. This seems to be what they're doing with Drake
 
It is what it is. Bandwidth requirements are growing more quickly than efficiency is improving, and there's no other memory type available that would offer substantially better energy efficiency, so they're just inherently limited by power consumption. The most power efficient solution is to combine whatever RAM solution you have with a healthy on-die cache, to keep memory accesses on-die as much as possible. This seems to be what they're doing with Drake
Thanks Thraktor. At least, Nintendo seems to have given this issue thoughts in their design. So I guess they are doing as much as we can expect from them.

And I am sorry for @-ing you @brainchild but based on the calculations from Thraktor, could a SoC that has a memory bandwidth of 88 GB/s run Nanite? We all know now that one would need speeds above 500 MB/s to stream data from the hard drive but can the bandwidth be a bottleneck?

I'll preface that question as usual by saying that I am a total noob in this domain. I am grateful for each answer I receive.
 
Quoted by: MP!
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Nintendo can do the whole 399 and 499 sku's and just have a limited number of the 399 sku until demand catches up, if they want to make the most money.
 
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