Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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My OLED Model's screen is no perfect peach after two years.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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NG Switch already won't have "native" Switch support, it'll be virtualised - kind of emulated. As messy as it is, if the console after next is NG Switch compatible, it's de-facto Switch 1 compatible as long as they keep the compatibility software updated, and there's no reason to drop it.
There's no reason to break the compatibility chain, ever, really, with the exception of physical games' inevitable, eventual demise, even if the formfactor become AR, letting people play their Switch 1+2 games on a virtual screen inside it is a huge value add, and those games can continue to sell.
You've seen the prices of GCN games second hand, surely, demand for twenty year old software exists, why wouldn't it in 2037?
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Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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Samsung's last quarterly financial presentation stated that their "strategic customers are releasing products featuring OLED in earnest" in 2024 in the Gaming segment, among others. There's nothing specifically linking this to Nintendo, but as far as I can tell all of their previous references to "Gaming" devices with OLED panels were for the Switch OLED model, and neither the PSVR2 or the Steam Deck OLED warranted a mention in their financial presentation. So, while there's nothing saying this has to be Switch 2, it's hard to see what else it would be.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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I've actually never used an OLED screen for any device, and I think i'm kind of blessed by that fact because normal LCD screens never bothered me.
So basically if the Switch 2 has an OLED screen, basically my entire life is going to be ruined and I can blame Nintendo for that.
Smash Kirby
Bob-omb
Which is why Google is working on destroying the web and enforcing their policy changes across the web as they are the primary web browser used.
TomNookYankees
Koopa
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Being gung ho about literal warfare over an entertainment product is unhinged. His temporary suspension was absolutely justifiable.
D
Deleted member 1978
Guest
Stating that there is a "need" for violence to avoid disruption of shipping routes shows an appalling lack of empathy. For this you are being banned for two weeks. - meatbag, MissingNo, PS, TC, BLG, mariodk18, Dardan Sandiego, Barely Able
The attacks on that critical shipping route impacts every industry that needs to move products to different parts of the world, and not just entertainment specifically. I'm not thrilled at the need to use violence to restore stability to that region, but it was the right move to avoid disruptions even more consequential than those we saw in previous years.
oldpuck
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Same company. There is, let us say, strong evidence that the Switch 2 uses an updated version of Horizon. Horizon being the name of the OS in both the Switch and the 3DS.
This isn't my area of knowledge, but I've been told by some homebrew folk that the 3DS OS doesn't share much more than a name with the Switch OS. They're vaguely similar in design, but if there is shared code, it was a pretty radical overhaul.
I want to say that the video there has a pretty biased take on the Indy story. They use it to tell this story of "Boring Nintendo" killing "Interesting Nintendo", and because of that, obscure or misunderstand some technical details.
A Very Smart Person Who Seems Hot But In A Very Accessible, Easy To Talk To Way once wrote up what I think is a more likely version of the events.
No, we can't do that. The Gigaleak was, well, a leak, and it's huge quantities of proprietary information. There are public places where folks are talking about bits and pieces of the data inside, but the leak itself is on The Darkest Web. You are on your own, I'm afraid.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
This is the first I'm hearing of this, honestly. I have experienced other issues with OLED panels like graininess and black smearing which are present on my Deck / Switch / LG CX. I am not sensitive to CRT flicker either so I may have lucked out with my eyes. Perhaps there are variances between manufacturers where the flicker is mitigated on some e.g. Samsung vs. BOE.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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Safety of Red Sea shipping lanes are a global concern for a hell of a lot more than entertainment, and I don’t feel like it was “unhinged” to mention the topic in the context of this thread.
edit: going back and reviewing the wording in Chad's original post, I take your point regarding his being 'gung-ho.'
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I imagine the constant cat and mouse of the 3ds homebrew scene made them realize they probably needed to start basically from scratch with everything they learned
oldpuck
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We don't do this here. "User was banned for saying X so I'm also going to say X" should, at best, be taken to discussions of what is and is not acceptable moderation, and seems pretty bold of you.
Justifying death if it means you get your toy is unconscionable. Justifying said death for wider reasons is, wildly off topic and incendiary.
Using "we" in an international forum with active, contributing members from Brazil, Spain and China (at the minimum) in this very thread to refer to a specific military coalition is... pretty ignorant of the composition of the forum, and kinda gross to make them complicit.
Just, don't. Everyone.
YolkFolk
Tingle
It was a shockingly bad post.
oldpuck
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I've got a little piece of detective work I'm noodling on. It's fairly minor, and while I'm pretty convinced that I'm right, I've not found the smoking gun connecting all the pieces yet, so I've held off mentioning it.
I think the real revelations we all want - about form factor and possible control gimmicks - will require an actual insider to crack. But there are a few technology questions that might be answered by a lot of combing through boring public records
casualreader
Octorok
do tell!
oldpuck
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Still tracking down! It's cartridge technology related, if that piques/subdues your interest
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128GB game carts leggoooooooooo
Goodtwin
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Bottom line is that any time politics injects itself into a gaming forum, it will typically lead to arguments. Famiboards is not a free speech platform, they have rules and guidelines and the mods have the right to ban/suspend any of us at any time for any reason. We are all free to not participate here if we do not like it.
It has to be considered that we could see two SKU's at launch. This is common practice with consoles these days, and with the popularity of the Switch OLED, Nintendo has to have a reasonable level of confidence that a more expensive SKU with an OLED display would still sell well. I could see the LCD model selling for $399 with 256GB of memory and the OLED model welling for $499 with 512GB of memory.
It has to be considered that we could see two SKU's at launch. This is common practice with consoles these days, and with the popularity of the Switch OLED, Nintendo has to have a reasonable level of confidence that a more expensive SKU with an OLED display would still sell well. I could see the LCD model selling for $399 with 256GB of memory and the OLED model welling for $499 with 512GB of memory.
Goodtwin
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Come now, this is Famiboards, everything piques our interest if it relates to SNG. We are all starving here, even crumbs are welcome at this point.
Shoulder
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People still use Chrome?
Haha. My phone and Switch are OLED, but I still prefer to play my Switch docked when possible on my budget LCD from like 2019 (because I like larger screens and 5.1 sound). OLED is pretty sweet stuff, but it does have its flaws and anything sufficiently bright and vibrant looks good in most scenarios. Not every scene is filled with high contrast and deep blacks.
It's still too expensive in TVs for my blood. I'm thinking about upgrading to something more premium this year, but it'll probably be something in the mini-LED category (eyeing the Hisense U7 line right now; I'd like to wait until this year's refresh hits around September, but there's a good chance I'll just bite the bullet whenever Nintendo launches their hardware).
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Regarding joy-con comfort, the Steam Deck has spoiled me immensely in terms of ergonomics.
I've tested perhaps too many grip and controller alternatives for the Switch, including the Hori split pad pro / fit and the Satisfye grip.
Funnily enough this has been the most comfortable to hold, the smallest option:
It's all because of the butt. My hand wants something to wrap around. I don't think they need to make the console significantly 'wider' than the original Switch for more ergonomic controls, but adding enough depth would help.
I was prompted by the AYANEO Lite here ("the tasteful thickness of it...").
I know some don't like how the buttons and sticks are oriented vertically on the existing joy-con for comfort but I am skeptical they would move away from that positioning. We already expect the console to be larger and I'm not sure they'd want to make it wider like the Deck.
I've tested perhaps too many grip and controller alternatives for the Switch, including the Hori split pad pro / fit and the Satisfye grip.
Funnily enough this has been the most comfortable to hold, the smallest option:
It's all because of the butt. My hand wants something to wrap around. I don't think they need to make the console significantly 'wider' than the original Switch for more ergonomic controls, but adding enough depth would help.
I was prompted by the AYANEO Lite here ("the tasteful thickness of it...").
I know some don't like how the buttons and sticks are oriented vertically on the existing joy-con for comfort but I am skeptical they would move away from that positioning. We already expect the console to be larger and I'm not sure they'd want to make it wider like the Deck.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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T239 at 4nm is a good fit for a handheld if you want it to be performant but reasonably sized. In my view, based on my understanding, it's not exactly a chip that needs or yearns for a thickness greater than the existing Nintendo Switch. Additional thickness would also affect portability and market appeal.Regarding joy-con comfort, the Steam Deck has spoiled me immensely in terms of ergonomics.
I've tested perhaps too many grip and controller alternatives for the Switch, including the Hori split pad pro / fit and the Satisfye grip.
Funnily enough this has been the most comfortable to hold, the smallest option:
It's all because of the butt. My hand wants something to wrap around. I don't think they need to make the console significantly 'wider' than the original Switch for more ergonomic controls, but adding enough depth would help.
I was prompted by the AYANEO Lite here ("the tasteful thickness of it...").
I know some don't like how the buttons and sticks are oriented vertically on the existing joy-con for comfort but I am skeptical they would move away from that positioning. We already expect the console to be larger and I'm not sure they'd want to make it wider like the Deck.
I agree on the new controllers' comfort: they should add a grip to the back, but as explored before I'd like to see them move SL and SR to that grip and for the top of the controller to be more rounded, but maybe that's just personal taste.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I'm remarking on the controllers only. The larger size I anticipate is due to the ~8 inch display.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I think a larger size is fine so long as it's thin, I think I'm in the same boat as you wanting improved controller comfort.
Oh, a larger screen and console as such would mean the new Joy-Con should at least get longer, which should be good for comfort, for my hands anyway.
bloopland33
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Does your OLED have burn-in?
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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The most Xbox exposure in Japan. . . Perhaps ever.Except tnat's the color layout of Xbox controllers not the SNES controller:
Edit: removed oldpuck quote.
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Gingerbread Man
Paratroopa
I'm also actively hoping for a LCD screen. I'm too paranoid for an OLED.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Anything new happening?
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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Just spitballing here, but seems like treating it like any other software would allow it to be updated separately from the firmware?
Looking back at the OLED announcement trailer, they didn't really tout the benefits of OLED vs LCD. Other than being part of the product name, the only thing it actually said about the screen was that it was bigger.
casualreader
Octorok
alas I'm not tech savvy-enough. But I always enjoy reading the conclusion and trying to make sense of the text.
Hosermess
Koopa
Instead of downloading an update to the firmware, you'd just be downloading an update to the software. Same thing.
Alovon11
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Well T239 should already be running up besides Series S if the DLSS Tester clocks are accurate (Especially the 1.3+GHz value).
And considering the ROG Ally (Z1E) can actually match the Series S in some scenarios despite a TFLOP deficit and only running at 30W (EX: Cyberpunk's quality mode), and the Z1E probably is the closest relative part (processing output) wise to T239 we have. I do think that at least via future iterations of DLSS if they can eliminate 99% of any cost of using it via the offloading to the Tensor Cores, then I think at the very least Switch 3/Drake-Next could probably match outputs and even shoot ahead of the PS5/Series X.
But we are talking about architectures well ahead of now. At this point relative to Switch 1's release cycle, Ray Tracing, much less Temporal Upscaling processed on dedicated hardware optimized to do it was technology that was still "In the future" and that even tech enthusiasts thought wouldn't really happen ever.
So whatever Blackwell-Next-Next does (As that would be the architecture in-use likely if they go for another 7y release cycle, meaning an architecture out in 2029-2030 would be the one in-use, so not Blackwell Next-Next-Next which would come out in 2031 assuming NV keeps the 2y cadence for GPU releases here.) might as well be dreamnium to us here in 2024.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
I hope we get more themes with this new system. Backgrounds that aren’t static too would be cool.
TomNookYankees
Koopa
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There's no way nintendo would do something weird like have 2 different kinds of screens for two different SKUs right? They wouldn't do something like have a $400 SKU with only 128GB of internal storage, a 1080p LCD screen, and no cart slot while having a $500 SKU with 512GB of internal storage, 1080p OLED screen, and cartridge slot, right?
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Rainmeter bg with Ace Attorney's Fragrance of Dark Coffee leggoooooooo
kasparov77
Bob-omb
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That's the issue though. Both the steam deck oled with the samsung panel (512GB model and 1TB standard) AND the BoE panel (special edition model) have issues with pwm flickering.
Thing is, some people are more sensitive than others. But even the less/not sensitive can feel something after enough hours of exposure.
People already filed a complaint on steamOS' github issue tracker asking for a DC dimming software solution (yes, it can be fixed in software) but valve has yet to respond.
You won’t be able to open the shop while a game is running which demos often do
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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The video they posted on Twitter shows LLW side-by-side with the SoC, so it's using something like the CoWoS* packaging used for HBM, rather than the package-on-package approach that the old Wide I/O memory used, which is partly why I'm leaning towards it deriving more from HBM. Samsung also has talked about their desire to develop a "low-cost HBM" in the past, so this may be what came of that project.
I also don't think Nvidia's supposed "allergy" to wide bus widths on consumer graphics cards has anything to do with whether they'd work with Nintendo to use something like LLW in a portable device. Increasing bus width on GPUs means more GDDR chips, more memory traces, more board complexity and more cost and power consumption, so if the extra bandwidth isn't going to make a meaningful difference to performance, they're always going to err on the side of a narrower bus. For on-package RAM like HBM or LLW, increasing bus width has no impact on motherboard cost or complexity, can lower power consumption rather than increasing it, and has relatively low impact on cost (once you're already using a packaging technology suitable for HBM/LLW).
*I don't know if they would actually use CoWoS, which might be overkill for a mobile SoC, so it may be something like one of TSMC's InFO packaging technologies, or Samsung's equivalent.
It's hard to say, because it depends on much more than just compression, and it's not even a uniform trend, with plenty of games being smaller on Xbox. To take some titles released in 2023, Star Wars: Jedi Survivor, Diablo IV and Alan Wake II all have smaller Xbox Series versions than PS5 versions.
As to reasons for games which are smaller on PS5, there are a few I can think of off the top of my head. One is that devs aren't using BCPack, which may be the case for early cross-gen titles, so that they could use an identical asset pipeline between Xbox One and Xbox Series. Another is that, as far as I can tell, most third parties don't ship separate Xbox Series X and Series S builds, which means a lot of Series X games also include everything necessary for the Series S version of the game, potentially including assets which are unused on the Series X. Furthermore, the PS5 and Xbox Series X games aren't usually precisely identical anyway, so there may be asset differences between PS5 and Series X in the first place. Finally, the PS5 is going to be the primary development target for the vast majority of third party titles, and is going to be the version which sells the most copies, so if games seem better optimised for PS5, there's a good chance that was a simple matter of developers allocating more resources to the version which most people are going to play.
Also, I may have given the impression that RDO has a significant impact on the quality of textures, which isn't really correct. I'm sure you can push it to the point where it has a glaringly obvious impact on texture quality, but for the most part it's intended to have a barely noticeable impact on quality. If you were to literally stare at two identical textures, one with RDO and one without, you may just be able to see a difference between them, but it shouldn't be immediately apparent, if used properly.
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Yes, but point being it wouldn't be tied to firmware updates being done by a different company.
Not both on day 1, anyway. They didn't even do that for something like 3DS XL.
Dimensio
Tektite
Why would that be a bad thing (minus the card slot)?
That's what I hope they do since I just can't see them being able to deliver OLED and 256GB-512GB within the 400$-450$ price range. It would be nice but it sounds unrealistic.
I still don't think that they are gonna do it launch and save it for a revision 2-3 years after launch, but I hope I'm wrong.
Maxrunner
Bob-omb
How can that be? There's that guy who had the same image for god knows how long and consider the time I expected way worse.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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Valve managed a very nice OLED, 512GB, and 16GB of RAM for $550, and they don't have anywhere close to the economies of scale that Nintendo does.
Codename_Steam
Cappy
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This might be slightly off-topic but with the rumours of a next generation Xbox in 2026. What can we expect? (TSMC 3NM, 32GB RAM, Zen 5/6, RDNA 5) How much more powerful can be compared to the XSX?
TomNookYankees
Koopa
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Valve is probably still selling the Steamdeck at a very significant loss though.
It's still to be seen whether or not Nintendo will be willing to sell the Switch 2 at a similarly large net loss.
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