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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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My Tulpa said:
Yep, i guarantee the new Switch will run Nintendo games wayyy better than the Steamdeck and Rog Ally ever will.
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Yeah but the Switch 2 will still become obsolete in the same amount of time, perhaps even faster than the original did. A few years after launch and third party support may drop near entirely (western 3rd party support, at least)
 
CeramicPigeon said:
Yeah but the Switch 2 will still become obsolete in the same amount of time, perhaps even faster than the original did. A few years after launch and third party support may drop near entirely (western 3rd party support, at least)
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....if we go by this logic the ps5 and series x are already obsolete as well...
 
CeramicPigeon said:
Yeah but the Switch 2 will still become obsolete in the same amount of time, perhaps even faster than the original did. A few years after launch and third party support may drop near entirely (western 3rd party support, at least)
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all consoles are outdated the moment they come out. what they provide is value. especially now more than ever
 
CeramicPigeon said:
Yeah but the Switch 2 will still become obsolete in the same amount of time, perhaps even faster than the original did. A few years after launch and third party support may drop near entirely (western 3rd party support, at least)
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There is nothing to suggest this is the case. Exceeding feature parity next to current gen home consoles, at a time where Moore's Law is dying or dead, coming off a distended generation to begin with, all while AAA games still aren't really getting the most out of the current generation of consoles.

Due to some advanced features next to the home consoles, there's a chance NG Switch remains relevant AFTER the home consoles have been replaced, as we saw with the current Switch and the recent appearance of Gen 9 games with no Gen 8 version; but a Switch version anyway.

Switch isn't obsolete, while NG Switch has more features than consoles that games struggle to max out to begin with.

Ergo, it will take a very long time for NG Switch to become obsolete, especially since this generation of home consoles is likely to be extremely long. Really, everything in the rest of the industry runs in its favour, longevity wise, not against.

To make this clear, games are not being compromised to fit on Xbox Series X|S and PS5. Few if any games even push these consoles to begin with. PC gaming is not 100 million RTX 4090TIs, it's a few hundred thousand of those and a dozen million 1060s, 3050s and 1660s. Game development is more scalable than ever and hardware is more powerful than ever, but also, hardware is arguably more VARIED than ever, with titles running on anything from a 5W tablet in Nintendo Switch all the way to a multi-thousand watt gaming rig or server blade on the whole, and just the PC, anything from years out of data Intel HD graphics to top of the line multi-dozen-TOP discrete GPUs. But if your game only works on thousand dollar GPUs, your game won't sell enough to justify the kind of graphics required to make use of such equipment.
 
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Concernt said:
There is nothing to suggest this is the case. Exceeding feature parity next to current gen home consoles, at a time where Moore's Law is dying or dead, coming off a distended generation to begin with, all while AAA games still aren't really getting the most out of the current generation of consoles.

Due to some advanced features next to the home consoles, there's a chance NG Switch remains relevant AFTER the home consoles have been replaced, as we saw with the current Switch and the recent appearance of Gen 9 games with no Gen 8 version; but a Switch version anyway.

Switch isn't obsolete, while NG Switch has more features than consoles that games struggle to max out to begin with.

Ergo, it will take a very long time for NG Switch to become obsolete, especially since this generation of home consoles is likely to be extremely long. Really, everything in the rest of the industry runs in its favour, longevity wise, not against.
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Hit the nail on the head. Moore's Law was stabbed to death by console creators while Nvidia played "The Gonk" in the background.

I also want to point out, yet again, that the Switch doesn't succeed because of third parties. If anything, developers will actually break their spines, bending to get games working on the Switch 2 if there's even a slight chance of getting games running through DLSS at 1080p. Nintendo can operate as usual without much care.

Also, modern developers aren't utilising modern hardware to the best capabilities, are failing to optimise for the hardware they're working on, and are likely overworking developers to even achieve the games they're making right now. The amount of effort to make a game that pushes the current hardware is, in my opinion, unreasonable and unsustainable. Does the Switch 2 still have to be powerful? Of course, but there's not as much concern as with the 7th to 8th gen hardware issues that the Switch 1 suffered from because of how much smaller the leap between Gen 8 and Gen 9 games are. The main differences are found in the SSD and, what do you know, one of the things we know for sure about the system is the quick loading times.
 
oracion said:
It was necrolipe.
Nate said he had not heard about the 8 GB.
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Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

We need to stop gaslighting ourselves to demand less. Mobile tech can do much better. No doubt Nintendo developed games can look good even if Switch 2 is just two switches ducked taped together, but that's not an excuse for Nintendo to release such a device I’m not expecting the switch 2 to...
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famiboards.com

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

We need to stop gaslighting ourselves to demand less. Mobile tech can do much better. No doubt Nintendo developed games can look good even if Switch 2 is just two switches ducked taped together, but that's not an excuse for Nintendo to release such a device I’m not expecting the switch 2 to...
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I would never doubt Nate, but it seems to contradict Richard's source.
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Nate is only certain it's not 8GB, Necro seemed fairly confident it's 12GB, and Rich seems to be hearing either 8GB or 12GB. Seems fairly likely the number is 12GB with some smaller devs using Jetson Orin Nanos (either 8GB or 16GB) as makeshift dev kits for Drake before they can get their hands on official dev kits.

CeramicPigeon said:
Yeah but the Switch 2 will still become obsolete in the same amount of time, perhaps even faster than the original did. A few years after launch and third party support may drop near entirely (western 3rd party support, at least)
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I'm fairly pessimistic and even i think it's clear looking at Switch 1 e-shop that unless the Switch 2 sells much worse than the Switch 1 it's all but guaranteed to at least get a ton of Indie and AA third party support for several years to come.
 
Pokemaniac said:
There's probably a non-zero number of Nintendo employees lurking the forum, at least. We're a fairly small community, but enough stuff links back to here that we probably haven't escaped their notice. Whether or not that includes any of their hardware devs is impossible to know.
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I mean..
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RennanNT said:
When you have 3+ pages going off topic for every 1 page on topic it's absolutely detrimental.

When you have a few hundreds of very informative posts buried into over one hundred thousand posts, it's absolutely detrimental.

I don't have a problem with one off jokes, shit posts or going a bit off topic for a few posts sometimes. I believe every single person who posted dozens of times here did it at some point (me included) and I doubt they have a problem either.

But there are limits to this. And in the last few months, these limits have been broken over and over. It's off topic and it's not over after a couple exchanges? Move it somewhere, it's that simple. Mods even created a thread now to let people go overboard on all kind of Switch 2 discussions, they asked us gently to go there for non-hardware/tech talk, but people simply can't resist doing it here despite being asked to.

All these 5+ pages per day of off topic or barely on topic discussion is bothering many of us. If there has been mod intervention, and if they followed up by handing many warnings is because there has been many reports and they keep happening.

And to be clear, I'm not asking anyone to leave or stop posting. Just, please, please, keep any derailing short or move it elsewhere before it gets longer than the actual tech talk.
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Plus there were people during the recent community discussion about this thread who sincerely believed this was Fami's community hangout/shitpost thread as opposed to our actual General Discussion threads. Not tryina drag them at all, just saying that impression they had is a good example of how far this thread can get from its intended subject. Speaking as someone who does tend to goof around and make light, even I try to keep it to a minimum here so I don't throw off the tech discussion. Hell, I learned more about how computers work in the first year of Fami than probably my whole life beforehand, thanks to the incredible work of people in this thread. I respect the hell outta this place.

And yes, I recognize the irony in that this whole post is potentially off-topic, but I'm done now so 😅
 
CeramicPigeon said:
That's what I was expecting as well. Doesn't look like it'll be feasible.
Have fun with whatever this ends up to be I suppose. Probably won't be as bad as the Wii U
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I can’t help you here. I don’t think you understood the video. That’s okay. Technology is complicated. But this notion that 1080p60 is somehow ruled out - or conversely, that games which can't get 1080p on the Big Boy consoles should be able to get there on a handheld, and it's disappointment otherwise - doesn't track.

I'm sorry you don't like it, you're welcome to whatever your opinion is, but I'm not sure your technical conclusions hold water.

TomNookYankees said:
These tests are mostly equivalent to the Switch 2's docked mode though. Like yeah I would hope that the docked switch 2 outperforms the steam deck, but devs are going to have to be able to make their games run in handheld mode too.
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Yes, on a 1080p screen? We’ve been saying this for a year.

Half of 1440p, pixel-wise is 1080p. So, in general, with half the GPU power then whatever settings and frame rate you’re getting in 1440p docked should be native screen res in handheld. I've said it before, but I think handheld is actually the stronger mode of the two.

SoldierDelta said:
I think DS was a decent idea on paper, but the VRAM limitation kinda irked me.
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One thing to keep in mind - Digital Foundry has a suite of games setup as their "benchmark games." These are games they have extensive testing data on for comparison, and which are shown to generally scale well with GPU, instead of being GPU bound, and where they have close console matched settings. So practically speaking those are the games that DF is stuck with.

The decision to use Death Stranding was actually a suggestion by me, for two reasons. DS was one of the first games with a great PC port that supported DLSS and checkerboarding, so it was the basis for a lot of early DLSS videos, and it showed a lot of DLSS's weaknesses. And second, the Decima Engine is extremely well optimized for AMD's hardware. If you look at DF's benchmarks, Death Stranding will perform as well or better on equivalent AMD hardware, where other games will favor Nvidia. So it was a sort of stress test for "the worst case scenario."

That the footage looks so good shows how well DLSS has improved since those early days in dealing with flicker and ghosting. And that it performs in the PS4/PS4 Pro realm shows how strong the hardware is even under less-than-ideal workloads.
 
TomNookYankees said:
Nate is only certain it's not 8GB, Necro seemed fairly confident it's 12GB, and Rich seems to be hearing either 8GB or 12GB. Seems fairly likely the number is 12GB with some smaller devs using Jetson Orin Nanos (either 8GB or 16GB) as makeshift dev kits for Drake before they can get their hands on official dev kits.



I'm fairly pessimistic and even i think it's clear looking at Switch 1 e-shop that unless the Switch 2 sells much worse than the Switch 1 it's all but guaranteed to at least get a ton of Indie and AA third party support for several years to come.
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I think Rich just speculate, also 8GB was always not possible at all beacuse there is no 4GB 64 bit modules for 128 memory bus
 
Man we're back on 8gb because Digital Foundry? We're doomed to repeat this cycle until the end of time. I wish Nate had something definitive to say on it already, I understand he can't just go around confirming that type of thing without a lot of work and research, but I want this discussion to end.
 
carbvan said:
Man we're back on 8gb because Digital Foundry? We're doomed to repeat this cycle until the end of time. I wish Nate had something definitive to say on it already, I understand he can't just go around confirming that type of thing without a lot of work and research, but I want this discussion to end.
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8GB is just not possible beacuse 128 memory bus also it dosent make sense
 
carbvan said:
I understand he can't just go around confirming that type of thing without a lot of work and research, but I want this discussion to end.
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Not just work and research, but these people also have to make sure they don't burn their sources. Some of them might very well know some pretty serious details that this thread would eat up, that sharing at this point in time would cost their sources their jobs. That's why a lot of the time this sort of stuff comes out as breadcrumbs that only get clarified later on.
 
carbvan said:
Man we're back on 8gb because Digital Foundry? We're doomed to repeat this cycle until the end of time. I wish Nate had something definitive to say on it already, I understand he can't just go around confirming that type of thing without a lot of work and research, but I want this discussion to end.
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No, it will either be 12gb or 16 (likely 12 though).
 
chocolate_supra said:
Not just work and research, but these people also have to make sure they don't burn their sources. Some of them might very well know some pretty serious details that this thread would eat up, that sharing at this point in time would cost their sources their jobs. That's why a lot of the time this sort of stuff comes out as breadcrumbs that only get clarified later on.
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That's what I meant with "work" in my brain but I should've written it better. I understand what a man's gotta do to protect their sources, I just wish it was easier because every waking moment I hate the number 8 more and more.
 
Pokemaniac said:
There's probably a non-zero number of Nintendo employees lurking the forum, at least. We're a fairly small community, but enough stuff links back to here that we probably haven't escaped their notice. Whether or not that includes any of their hardware devs is impossible to know.
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How do you think Nintendo finds out what people are saying?

They pay people to scour the internet and write reports about the positive and negative things people say.

I don't know if there's a department for that, but they definitely have people on it.
 
0
Gerald said:
8GB is just not possible beacuse 128 memory bus also it dosent make sense
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carbvan said:
Man we're back on 8gb because Digital Foundry? We're doomed to repeat this cycle until the end of time. I wish Nate had something definitive to say on it already, I understand he can't just go around confirming that type of thing without a lot of work and research, but I want this discussion to end.
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Which is why I'm thinking the 8GB number is from some smaller devs using the Jetson Orin Nano 8GB as a makeshift dev kit.
 
Only people disappointed after watching the digital foundry video are the ones that were expecting a PS5-level of performance.

What we are going to get with the Switch World is a system with a PS4 or Pro level of performance with a lot of impossible ports and we're going to love it.
 
ReyVGM said:
Only people disappointed after watching the digital foundry video are the ones that were expecting a PS5-level of performance.

What we are going to get with the Switch World is a system with a PS4 or Pro level of performance with a lot of impossible ports and we're going to love it.
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Tbh, this could be considered PS5-level performance considering its size. Now, if you literally expected 10.2 TFLOPS worth of raw performance with only 15-20W then we have a problem...
 
I had a dream last night Nintendo's next system was called "The N" and was shaped like a Coffee Mug.

It could play Wii and Switch games (no Wii U sadly), and could output 4K resolutions for the price of $1999.99.

I gotta remember dreams more often now.
 
I'm not the most tech savvy when it comes to things like this, but I saw that it was mentioned before the GL and GR might be a new pair of triggers (or something). Reasonably, what kind of added functionality would a new pair of inputs add to the gaming experience in any way? I like the idea of them, but they might get in the way depending on where they placed them.
 
darthdiablo said:
If you haven't watched the DF video, go ahead and do it now. Don't worry about tech stuff if you're not sure what they mean, you should still get some ideas from looking at visuals alone.

Keep in mind that is the floor of what Switch 2 can do (meaning it's most likely going to be better than what you see in DF video).

If anyone were disappointed, it's probably because they set themselves up with unrealistic expectations. Switch 2 because of its docked/handheld form factor, isn't meant to be competitive with PS5 and XSX's raw power.
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Ah, I forgot to ask; The video of DF makes it looks nice, but how would the batterylife handle all these kinds of things? I heared somewhere else that Raytracing and such things would drain the batterylife pretty quickly.
 
Apenknul said:
Ah, I forgot to ask; The video of DF makes it looks nice, but how would the batterylife handle all these kinds of things? I heared somewhere else that Raytracing and such things would drain the batterylife pretty quickly.
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The T239 will be more power efficient due to having a more modern stuff and less fluff.
 
NintendoMariah said:
Excitement will happen when a brand new Zelda, Mario 3d get announced

Let people have their moment lol
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wonder if it's going to be another prime remastered situation with some people going "I can't believe it looks so good on this hardware" not actually knowing how that hardware works
 
ertaboy356b said:
The T239 will be more power efficient due to having a more modern stuff and less fluff.
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I'll take you word for it for now. I do wonder if it'll have more batterylife than OG Switch has.

Also, the system wouldn't be just a power boost from the Switch, and thus I am still wondering what previous console hardware/software could be in the system. Would love it if we got Streetpass from 3DS back, or such things.
 
CeramicPigeon said:
That's what I was expecting as well. Doesn't look like it'll be feasible.
Have fun with whatever this ends up to be I suppose. Probably won't be as bad as the Wii U
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This is why the video was a mistake. Even though, Rich mentioned several caveats, people would go in this direction and not take the video as “educational and speculative”
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
This is why the video was a mistake. Even though, Rich mentioned several caveats, people would go in this direction and not take the video as “educational and speculative”
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I don't think this is Rich's fault. Pigeon was expecting the Switch 2 to be a portable PS5 while not even understanding that a lot of the games ran comparably to the PS5 and Xbox Series X version. Not 1 to 1, but a lot of the graphical settings were the same or close and it was 30fps - which is really good for a handheld.
 
I must say though that in general, people are well informed and have realistic expectations for the Switch 2. Seeing someone actually expect current gen games to be 1080p 60 fps on handheld really stood out compared to other reactions.
 
CeramicPigeon said:
Very unpopular opinion but post DF video I'm... significantly less excited now. Not really shaping up to be any better than the Steam Deck it seems.
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For the record, iirc Digital Foundry did a similar video for the Switch, and they missed the mark by a country mile.

EDIT: I want to add that i'm not saying this because Digital Foundry. Back then, both them and other youtubers who did the same kind of video didn't take in account stuff like OS overhead or possible optimizations. Like, when Witcher 3 was confirmed there were lots of serious attempts of guessing how it would run and none of them took those variables into account, giving results that fed the discourse arount it for months, only for the game to release and run on par with PS4 on CPU intensive locations like Novigrad.

What i mean is: Take those videos with a fistful of salt, at best they give an approximate idea but that's it.

That said, i would be more than ok with a Steam Deck-level Switch Succ, don't forget the possible price point, wanting a ROG Ally/Legion GO level portable without a gaming laptop level price is completely unrealistic.
 
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Reinhard Schneider said:
For the record, iirc Digital Foundry did a similar video for the Switch, and they missed the mark by a country mile.
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You don't even gotta bring up the record, even if they're off by a country mile Pigeon's expectations are in the stratosphere and warped because they think the Steam Deck is some crazy powerhouse. And unless DF's country mile sends us backwards, their tests show the Switch 2 beats the crap out of the Steam Deck before even accounting for optimization and not-completely-accurate specs.
 
Reinhard Schneider said:
For the record, iirc Digital Foundry did a similar video for the Switch, and they missed the mark by a country mile.

EDIT: I want to add that i'm not saying this because Digital Foundry. Back then, both them and other youtubers who did the same kind of video didn't take in account stuff like OS overhead or possible optimizations. Like, when Witcher 3 was confirmed there were lots of serious attempts of guessing how it would run and none of them took those variables into account, giving results that fed the discourse arount it for months, only for the game to release and run on par with PS4 on CPU intensive locations like Novigrad.

What i mean is: Take those videos with a fistful of salt, at best they give an approximate idea but that's it.

That said, i would be more than ok with a Steam Deck-level Switch Succ, don't forget the possible price point, wanting a ROG Ally/Legion GO level portable without a gaming laptop level price is completely unrealistic.
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Didn't they discount the possibility of DLSS 3 in for the switch NG not all that long ago? Not being very technical my judgment is limited, but as we're talking a console gaming and not PC there must be a number of factors that can't be replicated in the PC space.

Not to take anything away from DF, I think they do some amazing work and if Rich got even close to what we can expect were in for one hell for a ride.
 
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Bigdog said:
If what we saw in the DF video is a base line of what we could expect then we're in for one hell of a ride!


Didn't they discount the possibility of DLSS 3 in for the switch NG not all that long ago? Not being very technical my judgment is limited, but as we're talking a console gaming and not PC there must be a number of factors that can't be replicated in the PC space.

Not to take anything away from DF, I think they do some amazing work and if Rich got even close to what we can expect were in for one hell for a ride.
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I still need to watch the video, but i'm certain of one thing:

If with an underclocked Tegra X1 we have gotten stuff from Nintendo's best ouput in more than a decade to absolute miracle ports, i have no doubts about the Succ's horsepower whatsoever.

Regarding DLSS, honestly i think DLSS2 is great as it is, as someone who had a 3060ti and used DLSS when possible only for the extra framerate. Only the og DLSS was kind of murky and bad looking
 
ILikeFeet said:
Oliver is covering Resident Evil 8 on IOS and he's hinting at a not very stable game. passively cooled and bandwidth-starved hardware might have some ways to go


in other news, Nvidia released their displaced micromaps samples. trying to make sense of displaced micromeshes, my best understanding is that it's like nanite but from the opposite direction (and hardware accelerated). instead of starting with a high poly mesh and use an algorithm to simplify for lods, you start with a low poly mesh, tessellate, then displace with a displacement map. so like displacement maps now, but compatible with mesh shaders

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The real question is, does Drake support it on NVN2 as of now 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
 
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