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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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ReddDreadtheLead said:
IMO this is fine because it relates to the hardware that is within the device itself. With mesh shaders, games of the PS5/ Series X/Series S would be easier to bring to Drake without having to do as aggressive cuts, the GPU will bette handle the geometry in a more efficient manner that reduces memory bandwidth constraint and memory footprint compared to the last generation of systems. So you can do more with less relative to say, the PS4 or XB1. With mesh shader, culling is also more efficient or feasible: you have what you need, you don’t show what you don’t see so it’s not needed, hence more efficient.

Also allows for more complex geometry and environments for say, xenoblade. So, to use another example even if they’ll probably still mess it up, a series like Pokemon which has a lot of creatures moving about as of the most recent game to attempt to make the world believable can make excellent use of Mesh Shaders/Task Shaders to achieve the goal while also not absolutely tanking the framerate as much as SV did.

And can fit higher textures and other things to make the world look better or more believable and cohesive.

Though in their case that’s not a miracle that they need.
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A game like Alan Wake 2 would be a case where the Switch 2 Docked vs Ps4 PRo comparison would be more favorable to the Switch 2 when compared to a last gen game, correct?
 
TLZ said:
Now imagine if you're four decades old.
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It's almost like I'm seeing people reminding me that I'm getting 40 in seven days.

Imagine : being 40 the day the MK8DX Booster Pack is complete and at the same time, a Switch 2 leak arrives.
That would be the perfect gift.
 
Low-effort posts not related to hardware discussion are strongly discouraged and subject to moderation. – MissingNo., Dragoncaine, Tangerine Cookie
2008 the year i graduated high school , man i am getting old lol
 
Mr.Gamerson said:
A game like Alan Wake 2 would be a case where the Switch 2 Docked vs Ps4 PRo comparison would be more favorable to the Switch 2 when compared to a last gen game, correct?
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robertman2 said:
well yes, because Alan Wake 2 doesn't have a PS4 version
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Correct, but even if it did the game is pushing modern rendering features that PS4 can't do to save its life, but Drake can. So a PS4 pro version would likely have seen more severe downgrades than Drake.
 
ILikeFeet said:
you keep calling the hardware shitty, but do you know what the RT Cores do? and what they do with the assets?

and in addition to that, how common methods of GI work? how do some of these methods utilize ray tracing?
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What console games use GI based on BVH traversal? I thought most games either bake it or use try to use screen space garbage or light probes or software RT, none of which uses BVH traversal IIRC?

And I'm mostly saying a 2-4 Teraflop device is not going to be able to do very good HW ray-tracing. I don't know how good the GI or reflections will look if you just destroy asset level of detail quality to minimize the BVH.
 
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oldpuck said:
Where it might matter is Unreal Engine. UE5 has a mesh shader backend of Nanite, and as @ReddDreadtheLead has pointed out, it seems like the mesh shader backend isn't actually usable at all on the other consoles. This might be worth it, but really, it takes someone doing some very specialized benchmarking to find out.
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I’m unsure with the Series, while it does have Mesh Shader support technically, what Locuza mentioned makes it a bit wobbly/shaky due to what he said about RDNA2. And PS5 doesn’t have actual mesh shaders but a different version for a similar goal.

I think in the end the difference will end up being relatively minor
 
chocolate_supra said:
what about a 2-4 Teraflop device with literal dedicated ray-tracing cores?
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There are four parts to HW RT.

1. BVH prep (handled by CPU brute force)
2. BVH construction (currently handled by GPU brute force though this will change in like 5-10 years with like the RTX 6000)
3. BVH traversal (handled by RT cores though the Switch 2 doesn’t have many)
4. Scene denoising (mostly handled by GPU brute force though seems to slightly helped by the tensor cores now. Will be fully done by the tensor cores within 10 years)

It’s going to require very small BVH structures to work and this will require very low quality assets in the BVH, but I think this may just look like total shit without huge denoiser costs the Switch 2 can’t afford.
 
SoldierDelta said:
Sorry, I don't know what you're referring to.* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
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Explained in my original post here
famiboards.com

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Or the game is for something other than MH that Capcom can afford a shorter marketing cycle for. Likewise, unannounced can also mean the release date has been revealed yet for this fiscal year. ...they said it was major, it's said to be "million seller", and it only needs 3-4 months of...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
There are four parts to HW RT.

1. BVH prep (handled by CPU brute force)
2. BVH construction (currently handled by GPU brute force though this will change in like 5-10 years with like the RTX 6000)
3. BVH traversal (handled by RT cores though the Switch 2 doesn’t have many)
4. Scene denoising (mostly handled by GPU brute force though seems to slightly helped by the tensor cores now. Will be fully done by the tensor cores within 10 years)

It’s going to require very small BVH structures to work and this will require very low quality assets in the BVH, but I think this may just look like total shit without huge denoiser costs the Switch 2 can’t afford.
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We heard you. But we also heard reports of Ray Reconstruction being used in games in development, and the Matrix demo looking surprisingly great. Nvidia woudnt have bothered implementing RT in NVN2 if they thought it was worthless, people much smarter than us have been working on this problem.

So well see, maybe you will be vindicated when NG comes out. Or maybe it works surprisingly well. Hopefully the wait wont be too long.
 
LuigiBlood said:
Explained in my original post here
famiboards.com

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Or the game is for something other than MH that Capcom can afford a shorter marketing cycle for. Likewise, unannounced can also mean the release date has been revealed yet for this fiscal year. ...they said it was major, it's said to be "million seller", and it only needs 3-4 months of...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
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Ah sorry, I just forgot about that for a bit. Thanks for reminding me.
 
ahhh, 2008, the year…

oh

oh dear

the… year of the NVIDIA GeForce 9XXX series, one in a long trail of steps that would eventually become the Nintendo Switch

I’m sure at the time few would have guessed that NVIDIA would be so integral to Nintendo’s Future Hardware

I can’t even begin to Speculate on what twists time has in store for us a decade from now, especially in the realm of Nintendo Hardware.

which unexpected partner will shape that distant shore?
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
What console games use GI based on BVH traversal? I thought most games either bake it or use try to use screen space garbage or light probes or software RT, none of which uses BVH traversal IIRC?

And I'm mostly saying a 2-4 Teraflop device is not going to be able to do very good HW ray-tracing. I don't know how good the GI or reflections will look if you just destroy asset level of detail quality to minimize the BVH.
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your question is irrelevant to mine. GI based on BVH isn't different than reflections, shadows or AO. the BVH is agnostic.

you have yet to prove why a 2-4 teraflop device isn't going to do good ray tracing. I've posted many examples to the contrary. you need to support your argument instead of just saying things

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
It’s going to require very small BVH structures to work and this will require very low quality assets in the BVH, but I think this may just look like total shit without huge denoiser costs the Switch 2 can’t afford.
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where is your proof that the Drake can't run the denoisers?
 
ILikeFeet said:
your question is irrelevant to mine. GI based on BVH isn't different than reflections, shadows or AO. the BVH is agnostic.

you have yet to prove why a 2-4 teraflop device isn't going to do good ray tracing. I've posted many examples to the contrary. you need to support your argument instead of just saying things


where is your proof that the Drake can't run the denoisers?
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What examples do you have a game (with even slightly complex geometry) doing hardware RTGI on a 3050 with minimal performance hits?
 
The true test will be how well this next hardware handles transparency. It‘s something mobile hardware struggle with in general because of overdraw.

Edit: Also, 2008, the year where I actually got self aware that I like playing games. Wuhuu!
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
What examples do you have a game (with even slightly complex geometry) doing hardware RTGI on a 3050 with minimal performance hits?
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you're the one making claims of performance, so you need to back up your statements before you ask anyone to do the same.

but sure, I'll humor you since kindergarten level argumentation is easy

here's Cyberpunk with path tracing at 30fps on a 3050



here's Portal RTX running with path tracing on a 3050



here's Metro Exodus EE running on an ROG Ally, which is more limited than the 3050

 
Derachi said:
ahem




I don’t want a lot for Christmas
There is just one thing I need
I don’t care about the rumours
In the hardware thread, you see

I just want this discourse done
It’s overstayed, it’s had its run
Make my wish come true…
All I want is news on Switch 2

I don’t want a lot for Christmas
There is just one thing I need
(And I) Don’t need the speculation
In the hardware thread, you see

I don’t need an avatar bet
I’ve got not interest in debate
Doug Bowser won’t make me happy
Unless he stops this dreadful wait

I just want this discourse done
You know that it’s more than had its run
Make my wish come true
All I want is news on Switch 2

I won’t ask for much this Christmas
Don’t want tech specs, I’ll confess
(And I) I just want a damn release date
Don’t mention DLSS

I don’t care about the chipset
I don’t know about “tensor cores”
I won’t care if it’s not an OLED
Those conversations are a bore

‘Cause I just want it here already
You know I’ve got my wallet ready
What more can I do
Oh, Baby all I want is news on Switch 2

The shipments are aligning
Just like they did last time
And the hopes for investors
meetings are abound online

And everyone is hoping
I hear those users coping
Santa won’t you bring me
The news I really need
Won’t you please bring the new Switch to me quickly

I don’t want a lot for Christmas
This is all I want now, hey
I just wanna see that Zelda
Running nicely, in 4K

I just want this discourse done
It’s overstayed, it’s had its run
Make my wish come true
Baby all I want is news on Switch 2

All I want is news on Switch 2, baby​
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Dammit, Mariah.......
 
ILikeFeet said:
you're the one making claims of performance, so you need to back up your statements before you ask anyone to do the same.

but sure, I'll humor you since kindergarten level argumentation is easy

here's Cyberpunk with path tracing at 30fps on a 3050



here's Portal RTX running with path tracing on a 3050



here's Metro Exodus EE running on an ROG Ally, which is more limited than the 3050

Click to expand...

I really don't understand.

We have a current Switch game using SVOGI, which is basically RT (In a very simplified manner). And said game isn't some kind of indie or simple mobile-like geometry game, but literally Crysis on Switch. And when SVOGI was presented, it was said to be so taxing that neither PS4 or XOne would be able to use it. Look how far along we came in R&D to allow these solutions to be able to run on lower performance consoles.


Yet I'm reading, from the user you quoted, that Switch 2/T239 12 RT Cores are useless, too slow and will amount to nothing? Like, Nvidia and Nintendo kept them in the silicon and added, developed and verified it into NVN2 API just to waste money? Frankly, I think that's an absurd notion to have.

Are RT, PT, Ray Reconstruction and DLSS not free solutions and computationally expensive? Yes. But to think the company providing the silicon and software interfaces and the company using said silicon and software interfaces don't know that and are just throwing RT cores for giggles is...something.

It's also the same thing as to say, literally, that there will be no further R&D, from the entire industry, to cheapen out the costs or provide solutions for mass-market, scalable from Mobile to PC, that Switch 2 will be able to benefit from it.
 
Ojoloco said:
I think is very curious how in a short period of time, nintendo releases all the news about all the next games and dlcs.

Maybe the Switch 2 announcement is near?
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Yeah - as far as I know, we aren't expecting any other announcements from Nintendo for the rest of the year. Everything that is to be announced is already announced. Including the rumored MK8D SWOLED, the Pokemon DLC, the MK8D wave 6 courses, etc.

Nothing else left for the rest of the year.
 
Ojoloco said:
I think is very curious how in a short period of time, nintendo releases all the news about all the next games and dlcs.

Maybe the Switch 2 announcement is near?
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To play devil's advocate, didn't we say the exact same thing before the last Nintendo Direct? And then Nintendo filled the release schedule out for the rest of the year.

You very well could be right - and as an H1 truther I hope you are - but let's not forget that we've been in this spot before.
 
Ojoloco said:
I think is very curious how in a short period of time, nintendo releases all the news about all the next games and dlcs.

Maybe the Switch 2 announcement is near?
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or they are doing this for the investors meeting to show what they are actually doing for the holiday season and how they will finish 2023
 
lattjeful said:
To play devil's advocate, didn't we say the exact same thing before the last Nintendo Direct? And then Nintendo filled the release schedule out for the rest of the year.

You very well could be right - and as an H1 truther I hope you are - but let's not forget that we've been in this spot before.
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I remember last year people saying the new switch was going to launch this year because 2023 was completly empty outside of zelda and pikmin, and look at that, the new console never release and we have a lof of games throught the year.

So i cant put a lack of announcements as indication that reveal of the new console could be soon, it could happen tho but not exactly because Nintendo dont have announcments left for the year
 
lattjeful said:
To play devil's advocate, didn't we say the exact same thing before the last Nintendo Direct? And then Nintendo filled the release schedule out for the rest of the year.

You very well could be right - and as an H1 truther I hope you are - but let's not forget that we've been in this spot before.
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I'm not saying that the calendar is empty, but that in a single day they have announced practically everything. That's weird.
 
lattjeful said:
To play devil's advocate, didn't we say the exact same thing before the last Nintendo Direct? And then Nintendo filled the release schedule out for the rest of the year.

You very well could be right - and as an H1 truther I hope you are - but let's not forget that we've been in this spot before.
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If I may, that was also immediately prior to a DIRECT. This time there ISN'T one. We're in no-man's land. However, getting announcements out of the way prior to the gift giving season is extremely normal, especially for Nintendo. While this is an exceptional case in how FAR they've gone, maybe they just want to help slowing Switch sales by marketing early and hoping it sticks.

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Please use stronger sources and refrain from sharing baseless rumors. The hardware thread especially has a higher standard of sourcing. – Party Sklar, xghost777, MissingNo.
A fresh 4chan "leak". Sounds like utter BS as usual, but I'm leaving it here anyway.

Screenshot-2023-11-02-at-3-20-03-PM.png
 
ILikeFeet said:
you're the one making claims of performance, so you need to back up your statements before you ask anyone to do the same.

but sure, I'll humor you since kindergarten level argumentation is easy

here's Cyberpunk with path tracing at 30fps on a 3050



here's Portal RTX running with path tracing on a 3050



here's Metro Exodus EE running on an ROG Ally, which is more limited than the 3050

Click to expand...

I didnt realize the battery dropped over 30% from the Rog Ally in only 18 minutes. Granted the GPU was nearly running at 2 GHz. Hopefully, Switch 2 will have better battery life.
 
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