Zemya
Shriekbat
Unless they go on a redemption arc from gen 10 on
Now sorry I go inhaling the daily copium
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Now sorry I go inhaling the daily copium
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Given the common expectation for 2024 is not a new mainline game but a spinoff and/or remake of a kind and the next new gen mainline game should be 2025 ... they're free to release it on Switch, and yes Nintendo is likely pretty "hands-off" with them ... but there sure will be some slight hints and nudges to at least have it be a cross-gen/platform release.
Though i do agree that there won't be anyone who would force Gamefreak to make it a ReDraketed exclusive.
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If things pan out as speculated, I think Nintendo is going through a paradigm shift with the Switch 2. Previously with the Wii they had to redirect course because directly competing for power wasn't working obviously, and they went for a different segment with the new ways to play philosophy.
It seems that, with the Switch, they finally were able to achieve success both with casual and hardcore audiences, and the new ways to play concept has been refined to perfection. So, what do they do next? They apply the same philosophy of taking a different approach, but this time pursuing graphical fidelity so they can have both things. Instead of going head to head for raw power, they go for this varied tool set they will allow them to get similar results, but still being viable for portable gameplay.
I think Nintendo is starting to go after the PS and Xbox audience again, and they're gonna surprise a lot of people with the Switch 2.
Or it can be very lightweight. Which is sort of my problem with these kinds of discussions (not referring to anyone in particular), they cut off the bottom end of the definitions and assume that we're only talking about, high fidelity methods. Which isn't wrong, but when paired with the questions of "what does ray tracing bring to the table", options are culled out when you exclude simpler methods of RT for the high fidelity ones.
For example, Quake 2 RTX is brought up as the closest path traced thing Drake could run, but I think it's not talked about why (and why not). Having simpler polygon counts go a long way with having a smaller BVH to traverse, yes, but you're still doing a lot of work on those polygons. If work complexity was reduced, you'd get considerable speed-up, at the expense of fidelity. But you'd get those, "why even use ray tracing?" questions.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
Pokemon has lost my trust in gen 8, i dont trust Pokemon Company/Game Freak, give me a game equal to gen 5 in quality and i might return to them(sadly this will never happen
Semi Lazy Gamer
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I'm thinking Game Freak and TPC are planning to launch gen 10 in 2026 with the 30th anniversary. Gives the devs more time on the next game and also sets the game on a major anniversary.
Lancelot
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I mean, on these cases pathtracing is more of an interesting casualty than anything it's actually supposed to do. Nintendo is never going to produce a game this old looking during the Switch 2 let alone pathtrace it, it's with modern games that Nvidia's latest iteration of PT (and more efficient form to date) is supposed to be used with. PT is still a generation away, nobody's gonna use it as their only lightning solution at the expense of every other department of the game.
Zemya
Shriekbat
I hope so but this makes too much sense to be true
I chose that video because it was the one I can think of that showed the separation of the rendering passes. The assets were irrelevant. You can do the same with a more modern style.
Possibly release Unova remake in 2024, Unov remake DLC (B2/W2) and Legends Unova in 2025, and gen10 in 2026.
Given that they cancelled Z and released Sun/Moon for the 20th anniversary, there's no reason not to release a new mainline for the 30th anniversary.
Lancelot
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Of course, I'm aware it's just in need of a PBR workflow and nothing else. Still, you're not going to see path tracing on this thing unless the developer was hellbent on doing so, even if it meant stealing GPU resources for almost every other thing.
Zemya
Shriekbat
Releasing something in 2026 is obvious, what isn't obvious is taking more time to cook it. Your hypothetical schedule is absolute nightmare fuel, too much stuff in too small time span
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Bold of you to assume that the 30th anniversary, if there is a game for it, will be a new mainline game and not just another R/B/Y project. ;]
Also, while i'm guilty myself even with this post, i think the Pokemon talk should be continued in the other Speculation thread.
Also, while i'm guilty myself even with this post, i think the Pokemon talk should be continued in the other Speculation thread.
Lancelot
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I can't imagine living in a world where Game Freak is forced to make a Switch 2 exclusive, at least before 2026... How ridiculously dated is that game going to look? Besides the crisp image quality, the contrast is going to be huge with almost every other game coinciding by then, even more so than with the original Switch. I wouldn't mind them to stay away from next gen (patches aside) until then, with this in mind.
Recall that Legends Arceus and gen 9 were released on the same 2022.
This feels like correct. I can see them launching
- BW3 in 2024
- GS "remake" in 2025
- Gen X in 2026
Zemya
Shriekbat
And we saw how it went.
Unfortunately, I do not believe that TPC or GF will extend the development time to improve quality.
The nightmare will continue.
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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software talk in the hardware thread, guys thats why that other thread was made lol
Zemya
Shriekbat
https://www.eurogamer.net/the-pokem...ut-game-quality-as-fan-complaints-grow-louder
This is what gave me a smidge of hope and with this I stop OTing
This could refer to performance improvements due to Switch 2 power, rather than quality improvements in the game itself.
This may be just the right topic for a hardware thread.
NineTailSage
Bob-omb
On this front I personally expect Nintendo to gamify Ray-tracing by using light, shadows and reflections to solve puzzles or quests based on the time of day and such...
I don't think it's an oversell, Drake will be much closer to PS5 image quality wise than Switch was to the PS4.
Most modern GPUs can all cram millions upon millions of polygons onto the screen at a time and if Drake truly has 12GB of RAM then texture quality overall should be very similar to PS5 as well.
The Switch showed what creative developers can do with a measly 400 Gflops(Docked) In comparison to their competitors.
So a 3+Tflop modern Nvidia GPU with Ai software solutions isn't impractical to believe that games could look very comparable to much stronger hardware on paper from a different manufacturer.
TheSentry
Tektite
It’s worth mentioning, when a developer ports a game to the Switch 2 it’ll look good and I agree that it’ll be on the level of PS4 Pro with some perks like ray reconstruction.
BUT when Nintendo makes a game from the ground up for with Nvidia’s help at incorporating all their tech… dang that will look next level compared to a simple port.
BUT when Nintendo makes a game from the ground up for with Nvidia’s help at incorporating all their tech… dang that will look next level compared to a simple port.
Lancelot
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Not to say Nintendo as a publisher is much more stylized, I really wouldn't be surprised if many of their games looked like CGI renders in practice, both in cutscenes and gameplay, possibly surpassing their artwork without issue. Everyone that had a PS4 (an much more inferior machine to what T239 is) knew what that thing could do under first party hands, now imagine a 3+ TFLOP GPU with AI to essentially render half the pixel count with native quality and RT (plus the improved CPU, increased RAM, faster storage, etc)? No one is overselling anything, this thing will kick ass.
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All that has already been done. I don't think there's much you can do with gamifying your render pipeline beyond optimizing effects that have been done before. And gamifying RT has been done too. If you ever played a shooter with hitscan, that's a usage for it. Shooting a ray and hitting something doesn't cost much
ziggyrivers
thunder
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I presume Nintendo’s and Nvidia’s focus after the Switch will be to try and close the gap as much as possible between the Switch/handheld and home consoles, all while delivering a portable form factor. This in order to better attract Third Party developers. They’d be well incentivized to get into a very successful running brand.
Which is why I think the successor will be just another Switch, but better. Like a fellow member posted in another thread: the Switch is already packed with features and gimmicks it doesn’t even use, so what more can you add?
If Nvidia and Nintendo are looking at creative ways to deliver current gen graphics, then I don’t see them spending time and resources in AR and/or VR.
Which is why I think the successor will be just another Switch, but better. Like a fellow member posted in another thread: the Switch is already packed with features and gimmicks it doesn’t even use, so what more can you add?
If Nvidia and Nintendo are looking at creative ways to deliver current gen graphics, then I don’t see them spending time and resources in AR and/or VR.
barruma
Rattata
Assuming you have a higher margin on digital software, you can sell digital only hardware closer to its manufacturing cost and still keep the same overall margin.
Kingpin722
Piranha Plant
I think Nintendo should revisit a Miiverse concept with Switch 2. Switch brand has done so much for every IP they have, it would make sense to try building a centralized home for those games within the console again.
Nintendo has the type of community that would really take advantage of a feature like this especially when Twitter is seemingly going down the drain.
Nintendo has the type of community that would really take advantage of a feature like this especially when Twitter is seemingly going down the drain.
John Omaha
Moblin
They'll have the means to look similar, though I'm not sure how useful the comparison will be. Because really, which developers that primarily target the PS5 and Series X are making highly stylized games? Even Japanese third parties have shifted towards more realistic art styles at the high-end. Nearly three years into the gen, the only relevant points of comparison are Astro Bot, Ratchet and Clank and Hi-Fi Rush. On the other hand, Nintendo aren't going to drastically change their broader art direction and rendering style just because they have access to better technology.
Which is a good thing, because it means Nintendo may actually have the best graphics in their specific lane, period. Not because their hardware is more capable, but because almost nobody else is offering stylized graphics at the high-end.
redmutineer75
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Frankly, if I were Nintendo, I would not want to spend all of that time essentially making a social media site. Miiverse kinda worked on the Wii U since it was such a niche device that was mainly played by kids and hardcore Nintendo fans, so there was an expectation to keep things kid-friendly. With a much more diverse set of a potential 100 million Switch 2 users, it would take a lot of effort on their part to keep everything up to Nintendo standards. Knowing the current internet landscape, can you imagine the fallout of a Habbo-style grooming scandal? They aren't gonna risk that shit in a million years.
Lancelot
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All leaks to date point out to that not being the case, it's a Switch 2 and that's what we're going to get.
redmutineer75
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Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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microSD Express Doubles Speeds, New SD Express Speed Classes Introduced
SD Association (SDA) today announced the latest evolution of SD Express memory cards doubling microSD Express memory card speed up to 2GB/s, plus fourwww.businesswire.com
That's funny, I was literally checking the other day to see if the microSD Express standard had been updated to PCIe 4. I'd be curious to see if the power limits have changed at all for the microSD version. The current version of the spec doesn't seem to distinguish between regular SD and microSD, and has a sustained power limit of around 3W for a PCIe 4.0x1 link, which is what the microSD variant uses. That's a lot of heat to dissipate from a little 0.5g piece of silicon and plastic.
Also, the SD card association really loves throwing extra visual clutter on cards, don't they? Not that speed classes aren't useful, but this is the fourth speed class system they have. Here's a typical SD card these days:
There are already three different speed class ratings on there:
On top of this they're going to throw a completely separate E150 logo. They could have just extended the existing V classification to V150, V300, etc., but nope. Their claimed reasoning seems to be that the E speed classes include guarantees of performance with multiple streams of data, which the V classes didn't, but it's not exactly difficult to say "speed classes of V150 and up have extra requirements for multiple data streams". In reality, I suspect the reasoning is related to SD Express's awkward partial backwards compatibility. Because there's no BC with UHS-II mode, SD Express cards are going to be limited to V30 speeds in devices which don't support SD Express, meaning a V60 or V90 UHS-II card would actually be faster than an E600 card for anyone looking for an SD card for their camera.
It's a photography website, so it's not exactly surprising for them to point out that it's a dead format as far as cameras are concerned. Aside from the fact that CFexpress has already taken the high end of the camera market, SD Express lacks backwards compatibility with UHS-II speeds, and many photographers have spent hundreds of dollars on UHS-II SD cards which they would want to continue using. Many CFexpress cameras have better backwards compatibility with their SD cards than an SD Express camera would (eg Sony's cameras which have combo CFe Type A/UHS-II SD slots), so photographers aren't particularly eager for SD Express to become a thing.
Another factor is that the handful of SD Express cards that are actually on the market seem to be largely aimed at camera owners who don't realise their camera doesn't support them, and that a "slower" UHS-II card would actually be faster on their camera. With much of the existing SD Express market being little more than a scam aimed at unsuspecting camera owners, it's not too surprising to see photographers in general not being very supportive of the format.
VagrantValmar
#TeamMarch2025 and eternal #TeamSFColors
So would you guys say the Switch 2 will be more or less performant than a Steam Deck at around the same wattage BEFORE DLSS?
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I don't want to be mean to anyone, but I feel like people expecting a thick, heavy device... Just haven't paid attention? Not to Nintendo, not to rumours, nor to leaks. There just isn't anything to suggest that the device will be thicker than Nintendo Switch, and there isn't a market benefit to it, either. At 4N, the thickness and thermals of the original Nintendo Switch are... Fine. Exactly what you would expect of a chip of that power consumption, targeting 3TF peaks in TV mode.
T239 can't just swallow INFINITE power. You just don't get performance gains after a certain point, eventually, you fry it, and diminishing returns and a fall-off in efficiency happens well before that.
It also, according to some leaks, has larger controllers and a larger screen, in fact the second one was datamined. That's fine. But if you think Nintendo ISN'T keeping children in mind when designing their consoles, you simply don't pay attention, not to their history, not to their present and not to the market. If it's destined to get larger, then weight reductions and comfort have to be found elsewhere. I would not be surprised if it ended up THINNER than the Nintendo Switch, although I don't expect it to. With a complexity reduced design using a metal exterior, and a lighter wrap-around kickstand, they could indeed make a device the same weight as OLED Model even with larger dimensions.
And moreover, they HAVE TO. They HAVE TO create a console that pleases the markets of children and commuters because those are some of their biggest markets. A thick console does not do that. A heavy console does not do that. Therefore, it's obvious Nintendo won't do that, because they actually want it to succeed. And that means it has to be practical for use while commuting, and comfortable for use by a child as young as three.
All this, and look at T239 again. At 4N, it has power consumption in line with Tegra X1. Not Van Gogh, certainly not Xbox Series S. Tegra X1. A device designed to consume the same or less power than the device before it. Why would they do that only to take the benefits of such, and just disregard them.
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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At the same wattage? MASSIVELY more performant. A literal generational leap.
But, it won't consume as many watts, so, the comparison becomes much more even in reality.
BreakAtmo
Moblin
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Yep. 7W vs 15W, but with a bunch of advantages cancelling out that difference (N7 vs N4P, x86 vs ARM, rDNA2 vs Ampere, 8 compute units vs 12 streaming multiprocessors, PC games running through a translation layer vs dedicated Switch 2 titles, etc.).
Lancelot
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Bingo, I second this. Nintendo has the highest amount of cartoony IPs and franchises in the entire industry, Sony's clearly not interested on keep on making those sorts of games because they simply don't sell as well for them and MS is what it is. Third party aren't interested either, they actually jumped to realism faster than the former... So, ignoring power for a second, who is even going to make those stylized games at the first place? Only Nintendo basically, they'll have their segment locked up just like Sony has theirs.
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You got me wrong. By "Look Similar" I didn‘t mean to have them a similar looking Artstyle or something. Comparable would be the better word. Hence my Mariokart 8 Example.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
Just as a note, the only games that currently have meaningful ray tracing that are likely to be ported to the Switch 2 are
Cyberpunk 2077 (ray traced mode runs at 30 FPS on PS5 so will likely use non RT mode to port to the Switch 2)
Jedi Survivor (getting a non RT version made for PS4 that will be ported to Switch 2)
Metro Exodus
Fortnite
Now, there are some games that use raytracing significantly that have yet to be released (Eg Avatar) and may eventually be ported to Switch 2, but the technique has largely not been utilized very much by third parties on PS5 to any meaningful extent. They would likely port over the non-RT modes instead to preserve as much texture quality and resolution and framerate as possible in a down port.
Cyberpunk 2077 (ray traced mode runs at 30 FPS on PS5 so will likely use non RT mode to port to the Switch 2)
Jedi Survivor (getting a non RT version made for PS4 that will be ported to Switch 2)
Metro Exodus
Fortnite
Now, there are some games that use raytracing significantly that have yet to be released (Eg Avatar) and may eventually be ported to Switch 2, but the technique has largely not been utilized very much by third parties on PS5 to any meaningful extent. They would likely port over the non-RT modes instead to preserve as much texture quality and resolution and framerate as possible in a down port.
This is a great take. I think there are a few things at play that make this strategy, specifically for this NG generation, very viable. Nintendo is able to build a system that is effectively an entire generation ahead of PS5 & XSX in terms of having hardware accelerated upscaling and ray tracing. This provides them an opportunity to bridge a decent portion of the power gap created by the handheld heat and power constraints. In less demanding games, the NG can flex the tensor cores for ray tracing while avoiding the massive shader hit their peers have to take. The incredible progress in developer tools like unreal have made scaling a game to the NG from the PS5 easier than ever before. I believe that is why it is key that Nintendo up the speed of the carts and storage to ensure they are fully compatible with baseline specs later in the system life when the NG has to live with PS6. Finally, graphic fidelity is at a point of diminishing returns and the player's ability to actually appreciate a native 4k render vs 1080p DLSS to 4k is pretty limited even on large screen TVs.
Nintendo finds themselves in a very good position from a hardware standpoint this generation if they want to push power and the rumors suggest they are. The noticeable benefits of more power and ultra high settings will never go away but will continue to diminish going forward with each new generation. This plays right into the hands of a company that specializes in the quality of their software and innovative ways to play.
redmutineer75
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Well, unlike the PS4 and 5, the Switch 2 will have dedicated RT cores, so raytracing can be implemented with much less compromise.
D
Deleted member 645
Guest
I’m so ready for this to be announced and specs given. This speculation is too much. It’s going to be such a fun time to see the meltdowns that ALWAYS occur.
ziggyrivers
thunder
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Re: Miiverse - in this day and age, I doubt Nintendo would bring back their own iteration of social media. Like a fellow member said: Miiverse was small enough to function differently to modern day social media.
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Re: Switch size - it’s been speculated that the Switch 2 is gonna be big because of the 7.8 LCD panel it’s speculated to have.
— But the console can still be thin behind the display.
In terms of the supposed metal body, it can add weight, but magnesium is light. Another but: we don’t know if it’s true.
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In summation, we have reason to believe that the Switch might be big, and heavy, but we also have reasons to believe it won’t be massive, nor heavy
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Re: Switch size - it’s been speculated that the Switch 2 is gonna be big because of the 7.8 LCD panel it’s speculated to have.
— But the console can still be thin behind the display.
In terms of the supposed metal body, it can add weight, but magnesium is light. Another but: we don’t know if it’s true.
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In summation, we have reason to believe that the Switch might be big, and heavy, but we also have reasons to believe it won’t be massive, nor heavy
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology SPECULATION & DISCUSSION |ST|
Besides, Nintendo will not reveal anything outside of Custom Tegra Processor and, maybe, RAM.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Long time ago I went down a rabbit hole into which SD cards would be ideal for usage with Switch (if I recall, had 95 MB/s speed, so generally buying UHS-II or UHS-III would be overkill for Switch usage). We in a private Nintendo-related FB group update FAQ every now and then to ensure group members aren't buying wrong kinds of SD cards.- Class 10, meaning it supports at least 10MB/s sustained writes
- UHS-3, which is a different thing from UHS-III, and I don't think anyone really knows what it means
- V30, meaning it supports at least 30MB/s sustained writes
"UHS-3" (or U3) generally means it can support at least 30 MB/s writing speed at minimum. The V30 designation would confirm that.
Funny enough, we could also see SD cards with V60 or V90 designations (60 MB/s and 90 MB/s write speed respectively), while also still showing U3 designation. Would be technically correct, since 60MB/s and 90MB/s write speeds is above 30MB/s requirement in order to be able to have U3 designation.
If a SD card said UHS-III (312 MB/s and above), that's definitely way overkill for what one would need on Switch. Whereas U3 alone isn't (U3 simply means 30 MB/s write speed or faster).
TLDR: Between those 3 different designations (circled 10, 3 inside "U", V30), the Vxx designation would be the most informative designation. The circled 10 and U3 is nearly useless nowadays, V30 vs V60 vs V90 gives us more information.
I guess now I need to learn about this 4th designation you brought up, the E150 logo.
Edit: Also for others reading, keep in mind, as far as shopping SD cards for Switch 1 go, read speeds are much more important than write speeds for Switch SD cards, because the card will be used for reading the majority of the time, not writing. Save files are saved internally, not to SD cards. So even U1 (meaning minimum of 10 MB/s write speed) would be fine for Switch 1 usage, if read speed is at least 95 MB/s. I have a 1 TB UHS-I sd card that is shown as "U1", but has 128 MB/s read speed, faster than what Switch can handle (95 MB/s read).
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