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Thank you! I don’t play Smash so talking about technology is my one contribution to the technology thread
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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That's news to me. I'm glad to hear it.
Imo, if they do go for 4nm it will have considerably better battery life from the start than launch switch had.
After waiting for a Switch pro that never came for all these years, I have zero faith in a switch 2 pro.
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Wouldn't it be exactly the same as with super resolution? It's not just a crutch for poorly optimized games, but something with a known overhead cost the developers could build around if it was deemed a better use of resources. GPU power seems likely to continue increasing at a faster pace than display resolution, so as time goes on the relative cost of interpolated frames will become more and more appealing.
HankyPanky
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i'd love to see a Switch 2 Pro or more hardware options. basically as soon as it's viable to have a new SOC off Nvidia's next mobile chip we could have a premium Switch 2 supporting higher performance profiles (including 120fps) via DLSS. it would be aimed at the higher end, more expensive (throw out the waiting for nodes/low production costs approach) and there could absolutely be a market for it. I don't feel like Nintendo needs to iterate their hardware with the standard 7-8 year generational approach, especially if it's fully backward compatible. they can think bigger.
Switch 2 Pro on die-shrunk T239 no
Switch 2 Pro off the next Nvidia chip (2027?) yes please
Qualcomm had their presentation. the stream is still going on, but when it's over, it will be time stamped and available in high quality. for now, I took some screenshots
they covered their Artifact Demo from the 8Gen2 reveal and their new Dragon Alley demo (not the one I posted, but a "new" one)
on the RT shadow demo, the optimizations are in 5.3 as a beta
and the Dragon Alley demo. they didn't say if these optimizations will be coming to the main branch, but it was interesting to hear that Lumen on mobile took no work, it was the optimizations that took the time. it's a mix of HWRT functions and SWRT functions. reflections and occlusion are HWRT, everything else is SWRT. upon first run, they got 10fps. from the looks of things, after optimizations, they doubled the frame rate to just under 30fps
they covered their Artifact Demo from the 8Gen2 reveal and their new Dragon Alley demo (not the one I posted, but a "new" one)
on the RT shadow demo, the optimizations are in 5.3 as a beta
and the Dragon Alley demo. they didn't say if these optimizations will be coming to the main branch, but it was interesting to hear that Lumen on mobile took no work, it was the optimizations that took the time. it's a mix of HWRT functions and SWRT functions. reflections and occlusion are HWRT, everything else is SWRT. upon first run, they got 10fps. from the looks of things, after optimizations, they doubled the frame rate to just under 30fps
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Yes. They made a lot of sense with the WiiU where the console only sold ~13 million units over its lifetime, but with Switch being in the running for most consoles sold alongside PS2 and DS I don't think many folks will have missed the opportunity to play Switch software.
MadMarvainy
Moblin
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I mean if rumors are to be believed we were going to get one but plans changed. I don't think it's as necessary as people make it seem but more options are nice. Especially toss an OLED on that thing and get it out around the next gen console launch window in 2028.
Nah I'm right there with you. Smash Ultimate and MK8 Deluxe are great games, but I'm ready to leave them behind. I know the next NEW games in those series won't have 80+ fighters or 100+ tracks, but I don't care as long as what we do have IS actually new.
Besides, I believe in back compat anyways
Kevin
Chain Chomp
I agree with you entirely but unfortunately I think the issue will be that it's going to take longer and bigger development cycles for Switch 2 which means less new games. Look how bad things are for Microsoft and Sony these days when it comes to first party development. Very few games being released each year. Nintendo's next gen games still won't require anywhere near the budgets Microsoft and Sony probably are using but there will still likely be less overall first party games from Nintendo.
Nintendo will pad out their lineup with even more remasters and remakes. I fully expect the big Switch releases to get "Deluxe" versions at $70 on Switch 2 instead of free or affordable patches. An example would be "Smash Brothers Ultimate: Deluxe" which will include the character passes and likely run in 4K/60. $70.
We will be lucky if we get regular backwards compatibility but I think Nintendo will be using their big Switch releases as a means to pad out their software lineup even more so with longer development time and resources for new content.
Unfortunately this I feel will be the nature of things are really this is basically what we see from Microsoft and Sony so no revelations here lol.
Neoxon
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The issue with Smash specifically is all the licensing that complicates matters. Perhaps SNK may not be a major hurdle, but Disney could be (especially considering how long it took to even get confirmation of a Sora Amiibo). Likewise…
Also, Nintendo has quite literally the best track record when it comes to backwards compatibility of the Big 3. The Switch 2 will almost certainly be able to play Switch 1 games.
Kevin
Chain Chomp
I didn't even think about licensing with that game to be honest. I wonder if Nintendo planned ahead and got licensing already setup for a Switch 2 release. I don't know how that stuff works and I only used Smash Brothers as an example. I expect plenty of re-releases throughout the Switch 2 generation.
Also I agree that Nintendo won't have the droughts we are seeing with Microsoft and Sony. Still I'm expecting less "new" games from Nintendo next generation.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
Nintendo is preparing for longer development cycle, they rentes the Tokyo waste e water bureal building, are building a new development center next to it main development center, Shuntaro Furukawa statement on Nikkei, point they are increasing development personal, to work on Switch software or for it sucessor
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
that a bit strange/odd, Microsoft suposedly travel to japan just to see Switch sucessor, Phill Spencer could do a call to Doug Bowser and then they show Switch sucessor to Xbox.
Kevin
Chain Chomp
Yup. Unfortunately the last I heard, these projects are years out from completion. Add to that several years to make games and we might see the first games from these new buildings on Switch 3.
HankyPanky
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especially with MK they will 100% have a long-term DLC plan so it's not essential to launch with a huge amount of content. new tracks & characters can be added over the years.
Truno
Koopa
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They're already hiring personnel to fill out the new building prior to its completion. New employees are working from the rented offices
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Sakurai hinted not long ago that a new Smash was in development.
Kevin
Chain Chomp
Alright I didn't know this. That's pretty cool then.
Just to be clear, I'm not worried about Switch 2 content at all. Nintendo will have plenty of new and classic software available. I was just sharing some thoughts that I personally expect more remasters going into the next gen of Nintendo. I didn't see that as necessarily a bad thing.
No, he didn't.
Ryuji
Tektite
I can’t properly describe how much more excited I am for a new console Mario Kart game compared to a new Smash Bros. Since the last truly new console Mario Kart entry came out, there have been 3 (!!!) new and distinct Smash Bros experiences. I’m much more ready for MK and hoping it’s next year.
Νεφέλωμα
Switch 3 enthusiast
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I don't actually expect patches. I think Switch 2 will run Switch games at the same resolution and with the same frame caps. Obviously that would mean that games would run a little bit better. I hope I'm wrong.
HankyPanky
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i realise it's bunk but just thinking about that someone wrote about a possible T254 (which does actually exist in some form). 3-4 years down the line we get a Pro based on the next mobile arch which is easily scaleable with existing software due to DLSS. selling points - supports DLSS 4.5 (whatever it is by then), frame-gen, 120hz refresh OLED screen, you get the idea. plays the exact same software but can get even better 4k IQ by rendering at higher resolutions.
Nintendo & Nvidia is a pretty exciting combination and the Switch 2 could only be the beginning in terms of going toe to toe with the others. Nintendo could realistically have THE mobile gaming device if they leverage Nvidia's technologies to the fullest. there's increasing competition in the mobile gaming PC/handheld space but if the Switch 2 delivers what it promises it could be the new floor for Nintendo. not something to sit on for 7 years but a foundation to expand further into the gaming market.
there could also be a v2 and/or Lite Drake based on a smaller T239 if that becomes viable, no harm in that to give people options.
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I do expect graphic patches will be a possibility, but maybe not common.
I feel that minimum effort patches (push settings on the current switch build as far as you can) some devs will do. Akin to what homebrew has done for years.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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The current operating system appears to already have support for Next Gen Patches, in the form of the "datapatch" patch type. While I can't be sure plans haven't changed since they distributed this, I would be surprised if there were zero patches.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Depending on the BC implementation, yes, dynamic res / framerate games will max out. Like what happens with overclocked Switch units.
I consider it a massive waste of potential for there not to be any patches, first or third party, for games to go beyond. Without patches, Xenoblade DE would max out at 540p handheld and 720p docked at 30 FPS. Same for several third party games. That's pretty bad.
Nintendo has patched evergreen titles like Odyssey and BotW to use the Switch's CPU boost to decrease loading times. Several third-party publishers have patched their titles, e.g. DOOM v1.2 improved performance and textures, No Man's Sky added FSR@, Ark was essentially redone, and so on. They shouldn't stop now.
HankyPanky
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i think they're well aware of the MK situation as borderline taking the piss, especially while Tour got constant updates. this was the whole point behind giving us the booster pack, methinks. same reason I wouldn't read too much into giving the booster pack breathing room or even re-releasing MK8 for the new system (lol). once Wave 6 drops that's a wrap and the new MK could realistically be anytime but definitely in year 1.
Neoxon
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Not directly, no. But Sakurai’s wording in that video was similar to what he said after finishing 3DS/Wii U DLC……when he was secretly working on Ultimate.
ziggyrivers
thunder
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If next gen patches will be a thing, then the successor console could have one of the best launch line ups for a Nintendo console. Granted, 2017 can be veeery hard to top
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You don't say “I'd like to keep working with Nintendo however I'm able.”
If it's not a hint, Nintendo is very particular about its series. They wouldn't even let Kit and Krysta wear a Smash t-shirt because they were worried it was hitting at a new Smash leading up to the unviel of Ulitmate.
ziggyrivers
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I just think it’s suggestive. That’s all. Like how he said he’d like Nintendo to HD Remasterize Kid Icarus Uprising
John Omaha
Moblin
I doubt it. These deluxe versions still need to sell, and there are maybe a handful of titles for which millions of people would pay $70 just to get 4K/60.
ziggyrivers
thunder
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The only $69.99 Deluxe versions I can see Nintendo gwtting away with are of games tjat are yet to receive that treatment (Wind Waker, TP, Xeno X)
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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rip my wallet
Joy-Boy
Bob-omb
I can actually see them going the opposite route,
Bringing back Nintendo Selects/Players Choice for Switch games with 4K upgrades, all DLC inluded, etc all on the cart for like $30-40 a pop.
The big new next gen stuff gets the $70 treatement, but they also have cheaper titles on shelves for casual families who didnt get in during the Switch 1 era
HankyPanky
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BOTW/TOTK are the prime candidates to get full on remasters, methinks. there would actually be value in getting these to 4k/60 and other enhancements could go a long way to make them look amazing on the new system.
ziggyrivers
thunder
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Same here hahaa
Like others have said, games already on Switch have been exposed to an install base of a little over 130 million owners. It’s doubtful a substantial amount of people would double dip.
If Switch 2 will be backwards compatible, theres little to no incentive for this
John Omaha
Moblin
Those are the two Switch games I was thinking of.
Joy-Boy
Bob-omb
There was no incentive to do it on all the other systems either, except putting them on sale helped give all those titles a second wind after the initial sales slowed down. It would be the same here
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The incentive is money. Between double dippers and first time buyers of Switch hardware with Switch 2 or BotW/TotK such a release easily pays for itself.
ziggyrivers
thunder
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Like I’ve suggested before, I’m of the opinion that Nintendo’s Evergreen titles will get next gen patches.
To be honest, we could make argument that MK8 owners double dipped on MK8, seeing as how a handful of Wii U owners were most probably hardcore Nintendo fans, meaning they must have double dipped with 8 Deluxe
So yeah, double dippers are a possibility. Especially how I doubt next gen patching their own games shouldnt be too much of a costly hurdle for Nintendo
I agree. Nintendo's first party evergreen titles should at minimum be getting next gen patches. That's still quite a lot of games, though.
HankyPanky
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definitely a patch but not a whole new physical SKU. most I can imagine for MK8D is you can go the eshop and pick up a complete edition with booster pass & said patch. can't see them adding any extra graphical improvements or content.
Goodtwin
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I think so as well. I think the Mariko revision Switch's offer battery life more in line with what Nintendo wants to target. Launch Switch units would typically get about right around 3 hours of battery life and I suspect Nintendo is going to target about 5 hours of battery life for SNG. Nintendo should be able to source a more dense battery these days, so even if the power draw for Drake is a bit higher than Mariko in portable mode, the increased battery capacity will offset that. Nintendo knows that there is a fairly even split for hours played portably versus docked, but the split probably isn't typical per user. For example, you have some players who play almost entirely portably and others who play almost entirely docked. So for tens of millions of users, battery life is very important.
You would think that it goes without saying, but I do see some stubbornness on the topic, especially from a certain YouTuber who loves to bring it up regarding backwards compatibility. Wii U completely flopped but it had numerous high quality titles from Nintendo. Mario Kart 8 had an amazing attach rate on Wii U selling over 8 million copies, but that "should" point out the obvious, because Wii U flopped, only 8 million people had purchased the game. Compare that to Switch where MK8 Deluxe has sold over 55 million copies. Did everyone who bought MK8 on Wii U rebuy it on Switch? I am going to assume no, but even if they did, that's still over 45 million new customers for MK8 on Switch. The number of people who buy a SNG who also own a Switch will be drastically higher than the compared to Switch owners who had also owned a Wii U. Again, it goes without saying but the logic seems to allude a certain YouTuber. So the idea that Nintendo can just release Mario Kart 8 or any other Switch title really, and continue to sell like they did on Switch is preposterous. Could MK8 sell an additional 5-10 million copies on SNG if Nintendo did do this? Perhaps, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to what a true next gen Mario Kart could sell, which we know is over 50 million in sales if MK8 on Switch is anything to go by.
I have considered a possibility that Nintendo may use some of their Switch titles as a way to add value to their NSO service. If all of their first party games were added to NSO they could probably get away with moving up the year subscription cost to $70. This would be a huge value to those who didn't own a Switch. Lets face it, there is always a new little Jimmy getting his first gaming console, and if mom and dad can get him SNG with NSO that immediately delivery's an extensive library of games for $70 a year, that is a compelling proposition to make to parents.
I imagine the update with 4K/60 for MK8D being free and not even requiring a trip to the eshop.
I imagine Mario Kart 9 or X or Ultimate or however they name it to be a new purchase.
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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the question is if they make a new smash how do you one up ultimate. The tagline was literally "everyone is here" how do you do better than that
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