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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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thesillyfellaelde said:
Yeah EA forcing their studios to only use the Frostbite engine for ever game is a good example of how choosing an engine designed for specific types of games makes getting other types of games working on it sometimes very painful. I see a lot of people wanting Pokemon on Unreal Engine and I'd be all for that, but it's no guarentee that it'd run smoothly on Unreal with how the Pokemon games are becoming more "open world". There's not many open world games on Unreal Engine 4 to my knowledge, but the ones that do have big open landscapes are kinda notorious for being hell to run already (Ark Survival Evolved, PUBG)
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There are games with open worlds sections that uses UE4 and works very fine, like Fortnite, Gears 5, KH3 (the pirate world and big hero 6), certain WB games, sea of thieves or dead island 2
 
Concernt said:
Switch 2 will be cheaper and easier to port to from Gen 9 than 1 was from Gen 8, AND it'll be EVEN EASIER to bring Gen 8 (and thus cross gen games) to Switch 2. This whole thing stinks of pessimism. It'll be fine. As well supported as Xbox? Sure, probably not? "Prepare for disappointment" levels of non-support? Buddy, this isn't Wii U.
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Yeah, the third party games on switch 2 could be very good.
 
Ojoloco said:
The point is that it is a curious leak that is hitting many things.
In fact, the fact that part of the things were presented in a Presents does not change the matter much, since this leak happens much earlier and contains certain things that are not presents in that event.

Nor do I think it is necessary to emphasize multiple times that these leaks be taken with a graint of salt.
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It wasn't much earlier. Like I keep saying, the post was from three days before the Presents which revealed 99% of the info the post had claimed to know (then they made a follow-up post two days after the Presents). So it's obviously extremely relevant that almost the entirety of the post was info from the Presents. Just like how when somebody like Pyoro posts the contents of the Super Mario Wonder trailer the day before it's announced, it means they've seen that trailer, not that they have sources inside Nintendo EPD.

And I'm not just making "grain of salt" posts. I'm arguing against your claim that this post has become more credible/interesting over time as things are confirmed, because 99% of those things were confirmed by the Presents three days later, heavily implying that the Presents was the source of their info, which makes their non-Presents info still extremely dubious.
 
Ojoloco said:
There are games with open worlds sections that uses UE4 and works very fine, like Fortnite, Gears 5, KH3 (the pirate world and big hero 6), certain WB games, sea of thieves or dead island 2
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Dead Island 2 basically went through development hell because of UE4 open world development, i feel like the only way open world really works in UE4 is if there's a lot of time and money poured into it.
 
LiC said:
It wasn't much earlier. Like I keep saying, the post was from three days before the Presents which revealed 99% of the info the post had claimed to know (then they made a follow-up post two days after the Presents). So it's obviously extremely relevant that almost the entirety of the post was info from the Presents. Just like how when somebody like Pyoro posts the contents of the Super Mario Wonder trailer the day before it's announced, it means they've seen that trailer, not that they have sources inside Nintendo EPD.

And I'm not just making "grain of salt" posts. I'm arguing against your claim that this post has become more credible/interesting over time as things are confirmed, because 99% of those things were confirmed by the Presents three days later, heavily implying that the Presents was the source of their info, which makes their non-Presents info still extremely dubious.
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But I'm not saying that the post is more credible, just that this detail has been confirmed and that makes it interesting for speculation. There is no necessary discussion about it, it is something that is assumed regarding leaks, they are never completely reliable until everything is confirmed.The date of 2024 still needs to be confirmed regarding the pokemon info.

It can be theorized that he only saw the presents and then made up the rest, or whatever, since we will never know if it is true or false until the non-patch is confirmed in the future.
 
thesillyfellaelde said:
Dead Island 2 basically went through development hell because of UE4 open world development, i feel like the only way open world really works in UE4 is if there's a lot of time and money poured into it.
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After playing Hi-Fi Rush earlier this year, I kinda came to the realisation that UE4 is generally at it's best with games that are mostly linear of are Open-Zone (namely thinking of stuff like the aforementioned Hi-Fi Rush, but also Pikmin 4 and Atomic Heart). Making an open-world with UE4 is... "possible" but not really the best use of resources. Hell, I kinda got that confirmed for me when Redfall came out as stable as a house of cards.

Frankly I'm more surprised DI2 released at all, I thought that game was sent to the fucking Shadow Realm.
 
Ojoloco said:
I think the problem of DI2 was the change between different teams in the middle of the development
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Theres a pretty nice video that talks about the development of Dead Island 2 and how the teams were stumped with all the technical headaches of trying make an open world game for a brand new engine that nobody had made an open world game for yet. The console versions were near unplayable and impossible to complete, so the project got axed and handed to another team out of nowhere. Then that repeated until the next console gen, when expansive open world games became more viable on Unreal 4 with the bump in power, and more experience in the industry with how to use the engine to craft those games helped make it work.

Edit: (IIRC though its still quiet cut down in map size from the game's first iteration)

SoldierDelta said:
After playing Hi-Fi Rush earlier this year, I kinda came to the realisation that UE4 is generally at it's best with games that are mostly linear of are Open-Zone (namely thinking of stuff like the aforementioned Hi-Fi Rush, but also Pikmin 4 and Atomic Heart). Making an open-world with UE4 is... "possible" but not really the best use of resources. Hell, I kinda got that confirmed for me when Redfall came out as stable as a house of cards.

Frankly I'm more surprised DI2 released at all, I thought that game was sent to the fucking Shadow Realm.
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Yep, Unreal is basically an engine that can probably make most types of games, but for things that go bigger than a more linear scope, it will probably quickly fall to its knees without some serious effort and time put in
 
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thesillyfellaelde said:
Theres a pretty nice video that talks about the development of Dead Island 2 and how the teams were stumped with all the technical headaches of trying make an open world game for a brand new engine that nobody had made an open world game for yet. The console versions were near unplayable and impossible to complete, so the project got axed and handed to another team out of nowhere. Then that repeated until the next console gen, when expansive open world games became more viable on Unreal 4 with the bump in power, and more experience in the industry with how to use the engine to craft those games helped make it work.


Yep, Unreal is basically an engine that can probably make most types of games, but for things that go bigger than a more linear scope, it will probably quickly fall to its knees without some serious effort and time put in
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But DI2 was released on last gen consoles with a very good versions.

And isnt the only game with open world features on UE4.
 
Ojoloco said:
But DI2 was released on last gen consoles with a very good versions.

And isnt the only game with open world features on UE4.
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I wont really be able to summarize stuff without omitting a lot of hurdles that DI2 went through in development hell, so here's the vid incase your interested in watching it.

But yeah hope this isn't straying too far away from hardware discussion 😬 I'll stop here, but it'll be interesting to see how UE5 will perform on Switch 2.
 
ILikeFeet said:
it's pretty in line with anime-styled games still. they don't do cel-shaded environments, just the characters
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Not really?

Guilty-Gear-Strive_2022_01-24-22_009.jpg

Guilty Gear Strive

Honkai-Star-Rail.jpg

Honkai Star Rail

Hi-Fi+RUSH+%284%29.jpg

Hi-Fi Rush

The better-looking ones often have some degree of stylization in their environments as well. That Unreal video looks like environments from the Matrix demo with more saturated colors.
 
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thesillyfellaelde said:
I wont really be able to summarize stuff without omitting a lot of hurdles that DI2 went through in development hell, so here's the vid incase your interested in watching it.

But yeah hope this isn't straying too far away from hardware discussion 😬 I'll stop here, but it'll be interesting to see how UE5 will perform on Switch 2.
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I Hope for Switchport or Switch2port of Dead Island 2 and Dying Light 2
 
Dead Islanr
John Omaha said:
Not really?

Guilty-Gear-Strive_2022_01-24-22_009.jpg

Guilty Gear Strive

Honkai-Star-Rail.jpg

Honkai Star Rail

Hi-Fi+RUSH+%284%29.jpg

Hi-Fi Rush

The better-looking ones often have some degree of stylization in their environments as well. That Unreal video looks like environments from the Matrix demo with more saturated colors.
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now we're starting to get into that great area of "is it cel shaded or is it not". especially when we're incorporating "some degree" of stylization.

like Blue Protocol

Blue_Protocol.jpg


Tales of Arise

20210901190515_1.jpg


or even Trails

Kuro_10-1024x576.jpg


I don't consider any of these to have cel-shaded environments, and I don't consider Guilty Gear or Mihoyo games to have them either. at the end of the day, "anime style" is just broad, and we're comparing a solo project to studio works
 
ILikeFeet said:
You'd still get all of those things. The Wii U was literally 3 Wii cpus fused together. It's BC mode was turning thr Wii U into an oversized Wii. That's not possible on Drake
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@Hermii

Yeah but couldn't they create a backwards compatibility mode where Drake just straight up emulates Tegra X1 meaning it's exact clocks and performance metrics to ensure the games all run as expected? The PS4 Pro had a box you had to tick to run PS4 games in "boost mode" which doesn't seem like a very Nintendo thing to do. What does seem more in line with what they do is to ensure exact clocks so they know for a fact that all Switch games will run properly on Switch 2.

I do hope I'm wrong because needing patches for every single Switch game to get better resolution and framerate would be a shit show and 90% of games that would really benefit from the extra computational power Drake offers like Astral Chain, Link's Awakening, Xenoblade 1, 2, 3 and Age of Calamity would never be improved much like Bloodborne on PS5.
 
Samuspet said:
@Hermii

Yeah but couldn't they create a backwards compatibility mode where Drake just straight up emulates Tegra X1 meaning it's exact clocks and performance metrics to ensure the games all run as expected? The PS4 Pro had a box you had to tick to run PS4 games in "boost mode" which doesn't seem like a very Nintendo thing to do. What does seem more in line with what they do is to ensure exact clocks so they know for a fact that all Switch games will run properly on Switch 2.

I do hope I'm wrong because needing patches for every single Switch game to get better resolution and framerate would be a shit show and 90% of games that would really benefit from the extra computational power Drake offers like Astral Chain, Link's Awakening, Xenoblade 1, 2, 3 and Age of Calamity would never be improved much like Bloodborne on PS5.
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that's terrible, if they're going through that effort, just emulate the games on the existing platform so the digital downloads can exist in the new OS

Nintendo's hardware BC solution was fine, but with operation systems and booting in old antiquated OSs, it becomes very glaring and kind of clunky. This is very obvious with 3DS BC and Wii U BC and will be even a bigger issue with Switch.
 
I don't really understand why booting in the old hardware mode is a problem. Sure it's not as seemless as like PS5/XSX BC, but I've never heard a soul complain about 3DS or Wii U BC outside of Gamecube Controller support missing on Wii U (and having to spend money to upgrade from Wii VC to Wii U VC, but that's more of a problem with business model than with BC itself).
 
Samuspet said:
@Hermii

Yeah but couldn't they create a backwards compatibility mode where Drake just straight up emulates Tegra X1 meaning it's exact clocks and performance metrics to ensure the games all run as expected? The PS4 Pro had a box you had to tick to run PS4 games in "boost mode" which doesn't seem like a very Nintendo thing to do. What does seem more in line with what they do is to ensure exact clocks so they know for a fact that all Switch games will run properly on Switch 2.

I do hope I'm wrong because needing patches for every single Switch game to get better resolution and framerate would be a shit show and 90% of games that would really benefit from the extra computational power Drake offers like Astral Chain, Link's Awakening, Xenoblade 1, 2, 3 and Age of Calamity would never be improved much like Bloodborne on PS5.
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That only works when you are sticking with the same or very similar overall architecture. The CPU is just going to have different timings, and the GPU isn't even going to be executing the same machine code. Getting cycle accurate emulation is very difficult if you aren't just including the original hardware.
 
GamerJM said:
I don't really understand why booting in the old hardware mode is a problem. Sure it's not as seemless as like PS5/XSX BC, but I've never heard a soul complain about 3DS or Wii U BC outside of Gamecube Controller support missing on Wii U (and having to spend money to upgrade from Wii VC to Wii U VC, but that's more of a problem with business model than with BC itself).
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I assure you plenty of people complained about Wii mode.

These "old hardware modes" are an inelegant (relative to modern console UX) and expensive way to handle backwards compatibility. They're mostly a historical artifact of how console UX used to work and older console games being so tightly coupled to their hardware that there weren't really any other options. There's no reason why a new Switch should need to resort to doing something like that.
 
Giancarlo said:
VGC report on the dev kit of Switch sucessor, dont make it clearly, if Nintendo has sent a early or a finalized dev kit for they next console, is just important third party partners to Nintendo, already have the Switch sucessor dev kit, does Capcom, Ubisoft, Square Enix, have a early or finalized dev kit for Switch sucessor? this will determine if Switch sucessor is a second half/holiday 2024 launch or a spring 2025 launch as VGC claim in it report.
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It'd be extremely unlikely (catastrophic intenrally) for a major trusted dev like SQE or Capcom to be the source of the leak.

Also Nintendo doesn't really iterate on devkits once they get sent to third parties. So with a screen, storage, and RAM seemingly in place. That highly likely means that the Devkits out are SDEV-equivalent. Ergo Final.
 
GamerJM said:
I don't really understand why booting in the old hardware mode is a problem. Sure it's not as seemless as like PS5/XSX BC, but I've never heard a soul complain about 3DS or Wii U BC outside of Gamecube Controller support missing on Wii U (and having to spend money to upgrade from Wii VC to Wii U VC, but that's more of a problem with business model than with BC itself).
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because they're not the same architecture. an A78 can run A57 code, but it doesn't run it at the same rate, it runs it faster, clock for clock. and lowering those clocks get you nothing. on the GPU side, they can't run Maxwell code, they'll have to emulate it. and when doing so, they'll just run the games at their maximum allowed resolution and frame rate, which is what we expect anyway
 
Samuspet said:
@Hermii

Yeah but couldn't they create a backwards compatibility mode where Drake just straight up emulates Tegra X1 meaning it's exact clocks and performance metrics to ensure the games all run as expected? The PS4 Pro had a box you had to tick to run PS4 games in "boost mode" which doesn't seem like a very Nintendo thing to do. What does seem more in line with what they do is to ensure exact clocks so they know for a fact that all Switch games will run properly on Switch 2.

I do hope I'm wrong because needing patches for every single Switch game to get better resolution and framerate would be a shit show and 90% of games that would really benefit from the extra computational power Drake offers like Astral Chain, Link's Awakening, Xenoblade 1, 2, 3 and Age of Calamity would never be improved much like Bloodborne on PS5.
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When you're using a hardware which can behave just like the previous console like Wii U or PS4Pro, you have 100% compatibility and don't need to do extensive testing or fixing issues with specific games.

When you change architectures like the PS5 and NG Switch, you just can't do that. There's no way for them to behave 100% identical to the old console. That's even more so when the new architecture can't run all the instructions the old one could. And If you can't match performance perfectly all the time, you will have problems in many games no matter what, running faster will at least save them from trying to fix performance issues as well.

The NG CPU can run Switch CPU instructions and even at the same clocks, it can be up to 3x faster. So we shouldn't have fps drops from CPU bottlenecks anymore.

The NG GPU can't run all Switch GPU instructions. They will first be translated in the CPU and then executed. Because of this, the GPU will likely have a shorter amount of time to generate the frame. At this point you have to be faster, by either increase the clocks or use more cores.

Now, could they limit the GPU boost to be just enough to avoid problems, so they have better battery life? Yes, they could.
 
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Also correct me if i'm wrong. If Nintendo commits to BC, patches will not be needed on a per game basis, the Switch 2 OS will simply know how to handle Switch titles and potentially run them better. Perhaps specific games with shader or other quirky issues may need patches, plus those games that are specifically upgraded for Switch 2 like maybe a TotK 4K version
 
Dekuman said:
Also correct me if i'm wrong. If Nintendo commits to BC, patches will not be needed on a per game basis, the Switch 2 OS will simply know how to handle Switch titles and potentially run them better. Perhaps specific games with shader or other quirky issues may need patches, plus those games that are specifically upgraded for Switch 2 like maybe a TotK 4K version
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Probably only for Nintendo Switch games running at dynamic resolutions and/or dynamic frame rates.
 
Dekuman said:
Also correct me if i'm wrong. If Nintendo commits to BC, patches will not be needed on a per game basis, the Switch 2 OS will simply know how to handle Switch titles and potentially run them better. Perhaps specific games with shader or other quirky issues may need patches, plus those games that are specifically upgraded for Switch 2 like maybe a TotK 4K version
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Depends. Even on the Xbox there is a little bit of fiddling they have to do despite having the best backwards compatibility layer in the business.
 
Dekuman said:
Also correct me if i'm wrong. If Nintendo commits to BC, patches will not be needed on a per game basis, the Switch 2 OS will simply know how to handle Switch titles and potentially run them better. Perhaps specific games with shader or other quirky issues may need patches, plus those games that are specifically upgraded for Switch 2 like maybe a TotK 4K version
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In general, games will not need patches to run, outside of possibly some rare pathological cases. Patches to take fuller advantage of the hardware will probably be possible, but that's going above and beyond.

There might be a short incompatible list, but I'd expect it to shrink a bit over time if it does happen. In general, it's likely there will be some refinements to the compatibility layer post-launch.
 
MusicProposition said:
Both the N64 and the GameCube had Mario, Zelda an Pokémon (not mainline) games and I really wouldn’t consider those consoles a success. I do think it’s not as easy as just providing games, since the market and the consumer‘s needs can always change.
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Did either one of those platforms have Nintendo's undivided attention? You also admitted the Pokemon games weren't even the mainline games. Those platforms weren't successful due to droughts they had due to Nintendo's split resources. Give N64 all of support provided to Gameboy Color and all of a sudden N64's library looks far superior along with Nintendo fans no longer having a choice in how to consume Nintendo's ip. Gamecube gains Gameboy Advances support. You realize I'm not saying just give N64 and Gamecube all of the games provided to Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance. I'm saying all of the support those handhelds received would have instead been spent on building games for those home consoles. That's the difference between them and Switch.
 
ILikeFeet said:
Dead Islanr

now we're starting to get into that great area of "is it cel shaded or is it not". especially when we're incorporating "some degree" of stylization.

like Blue Protocol

Blue_Protocol.jpg


Tales of Arise

20210901190515_1.jpg


or even Trails

Kuro_10-1024x576.jpg


I don't consider any of these to have cel-shaded environments, and I don't consider Guilty Gear or Mihoyo games to have them either. at the end of the day, "anime style" is just broad, and we're comparing a solo project to studio works
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Why are they so squashed
😹

TLZ said:
Was that used to create the Switch?

jizz-in-my-pants.jpg
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I’m dead💀💀💀

Needs more Yeah
 
Ojoloco said:
I think the problem of DI2 was the change between different teams in the middle of the development
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The issue was actually they were one of the first devs to adopt UE4 and at that time no one had any idea the pipeline to make an open world game on it.
 
Pokemaniac said:
In general, games will not need patches to run, outside of possibly some rare pathological cases. Patches to take fuller advantage of the hardware will probably be possible, but that's going above and beyond.

There might be a short incompatible list, but I'd expect it to shrink a bit over time if it does happen. In general, it's likely there will be some refinements to the compatibility layer post-launch.
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praying for a Vroom in the Night Sky 4k patch
 
SoldierDelta said:
For what it's worth, Xenoblade X is probably going to be Switch 2 exclusive due to the fact it only just worked on Wii U.

As for how long... uhhh... probably 2 years of support? Maybe 3 depending on demand at that point?
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It's doable on Switch. We've gotten a ton of Wii U ports already. The biggest challenge will be removing the Wii u pad stuff.

I think the biggest factor of a switch port coming is more so the timing. There's been at least 2 years between every new Xenoblade game on switch, and that counts when you include DlC stories like Torna and FR

-XB2 &XB2 Torna 2017 & 2018
-XB1 DE 2020
-XB3 & XB3 FR 2022 & 2023

So it's safe to predict XBX would be coming out in 2025. Maybe end of 2024 if we're lucky. Tbe demand by fans for X is there. It's even more likely on switch if Switch 2 doesn't come out until Q4 2024 and switch sales are going relatively strong
Samuspet said:
What Nintendo will create when combing Drake with Nanite, Lumen, TXAA, hardware RT and DLSS will be truly stunning and I think Nintendo's AAA studios will hold their own visually against the Ratchet PS5 game and that's saying something considering PS5 will still be 5x in CPU power, 3x in GPU power, have a much, much faster SSD and have more and much faster ram. Luigi's Mansion 4 will be the first game that makes jaws drop imo.
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I'm curious where you got a 5x CPU power gap between PS5 and Switch 2/Drake? Switch 2 could actually close the power gap a bit from switch vs PS4 (which was about 3.5x in speed).
 
ertaboy356b said:
No leaks whatsoever yet. For the meantime, let's enjoy some reddit bullshit. It's a speculation thread after all.

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
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Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
 
Dekuman said:
* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
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That registration for gold points can be a very restricted option. For context: "Gold Points must be claimed within one year of the game’s original release date in the Nintendo eShop. If a physical version of a game is released later than the digital version, it may no longer qualify for Gold Points."
Not to mention all the people who took years to find this out lol (many still don't know about it)

And even then, I don't think Nintendo would like to see the tsunami of people reselling their physical copies because they now have its digital licenses.

For that, I can see Nintendo opting for a physical-to-digital trade-up program at a worldwide level.

But, anyway, I don't believe they would go with digital only on Switch 2.
 
Multiverse said:
That was before digital was a thing. There’s no point in making multiple slots now.
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They can make one that accommodates both like 3DS. And there’s a very good point in doing so: having a 100+ million install base remain on your side when you want to sell them your new system in droves.
 
No console manufacturer is ever going to mandate a certain resolution or framerate across the board. Devs will have the freedom to do as they seem fit.
 
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