Vanillalite
Bob-omb
I know hence me saying not common…..
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
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Gerald
Bob-omb
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12 is sweet stop and switch 2 will have 12 there is no other option tbh, 2GB will be for OS and 10 for Games
pelusilla6
Bob-omb
The sweet spot is having as much RAM as possible.
barrend
Cappy
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Can I ask a technical question (excuse me for the lack of knowledge)? Which is more crucial/important? Memory size or memory bandwidth? If the new console could have 8gb with more bandwidth or 12 with less(if this is possible ofc), which would be the most ideal scenario? (Sorry but I cannot understand the actual usage of each of em)
Gerald
Bob-omb
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There is no LPPDR5 64 bit 4GB RAM Modules, so is def 12 if not 16
TomNookYankees
Koopa
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That's my point though. If there are dev kits with only 12GB, then there's no way the retail unit is 16GB.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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2 for the OS would be AWESOME, but I kind of hope they have memory reallocations available like 3DS and Switch have, where extra demanding games can tune down the OS to run better.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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They're both important, and to an extent one can make up for the other. More memory, however, is a lot easier to work with, and it means flat out more on screen. In general, you want more memory even if it costs you bandwidth, so long as the cost isn't too severe.
For NG Switch, the situation we're looking at is probably one where there aren't speed gains to be had from lower total memory, so, the more the better.
Armoured_Bear
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So do we have reports that the devkits contain 512GB and 12GB RAM?
Instro
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The biggest knock on the Series S is the lack of RAM though. With the Switch 2 additionally being a significantly lower bandwidth scenario, it would behoove them to increase the capacity as much as they can.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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Unless you guys have found a cheaper method of retaining these 4GB modules of RAM, 8GB is not likely. 6GB is more likely and even 8GB (adding to 12 and 16 respectively in the T239 config) than 4GB which are being phased out.
And even the Series S with 7.5-8GB is a pain for these devs.
bro/sis/my friend… going with 8 is not the wave if that’s what you want
There is but those are being phased out for 5X if I’m not mistaken.
if they want to take advantage of the economy of scale they’d go for riding the wave that allows them to.
Er, it’s kits with supposedly 16GB in them meaning retail not having 16GB but less than that.
Though we have to be careful, since iirc there was a PS5 kit at one point in time with 16GB at one time and then as we see with the final product, it had 16GB of RAM for retail and the final devkit has more than this.
So things can still change with the amount.
Things like this aren’t reported because RAM can change at the final minute.
So like always to everyone, let’s wait until we are much closer to the launch, by then things are final.
And RAM in this case is more similar to the clockspeed which can change throughout the pre-release.
Instro
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To your point, I believe there are/were Switch dev kits that have 4GB of RAM as well.
you can easily get 16GB in a dev kit from 2 chips. 8GB chips are in mass production
we don't know that. what we're hearing is that the dev kits have 16GB. retail units can then have anywhere from 16GB of memory down to 8GB
D
Deleted member 887
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It’s complicated. You want them to be proportional basically. But in this case, more but slower would be better than less but faster, at least for most games.
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Yes, then eventually 6GB and then current is 8GB.
Series has 40GB for its devkit on the other hand…
Goblin_knight
Mococo's Favorite Ruffian
You know what let's push for the stars it'll be 24GB of ram no less.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
a jornalista, webmasters of the nintendista site Universo Nintendo, the bigest Nintendo site on Brazil.
necrolipe
Universo Nintendo Owner
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Also more features and services not present in the actual system
But I believe that RAM consumption by NOS will be very low in comparison to PS and Xbox consoles
RennanNT
Bob-omb
Putting the few 3rd party multidisc games aside, GC games are up to 1.45GB. First party games very likely average to around 1GB or less after trimming (TP is apparently 1.19GB). And they could store them compressed to shrink it a bit further.
A 32 GB ceiling would still be acceptable for a system with 128+ GB of storage. And that would get you at the very minimum 22 games (no trimming or compression = 31.2GB), but most likely north of 30 games.
And if they plan to add so many games that it becomes too big to their liking, they can always split in multiple volumes with 15+ games each.
EDIT: fixing wrong value.
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ZachyCatGames
Cappy
(Switch doesn't have a reduced memory mode?)
epicmartin7
Octorok
Gonna make a huge gamble and say that this "Digital Only" model could be similar to Calcio and maybe a Console-Only variant of their new hardware?
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Ehhh. Certain games use more memory than standard and sacrifice the video capture buffer to do it.
Dekuman
Kremling
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The reason I'm a bit iffy on 8GB ram is I think a 2x or even sub 2x leap in memory available to games over Switch which was often memory limited would be very un-Nintendo as they usually address the prior console's bottlenecks in their follow ups, sometimes to a fault.
I think if they can't get to 16GB, they will go with 12GB, and I hope they just put the OS on a different module like what Sony did with PS Pro. Make it 12 GB LPDDR5 +2 GB slower ram
I think if they can't get to 16GB, they will go with 12GB, and I hope they just put the OS on a different module like what Sony did with PS Pro. Make it 12 GB LPDDR5 +2 GB slower ram
TomNookYankees
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The entire N64 library (meaning all 394 games) totals to less than 16GB, meaning if somehow nintendo got the rights to put 100 N64 games on NSO, the N64 NSO app would still be smaller than most AAA switch games.
At potentially 1.2GB per game + memory needed for saves and save states, an NSO app would be limited to around 25 games at most before reaching the 32GB cap. And with the demand clearly being there for nintendo to sell remasters anyway, it'll be much easier for nintendo to sell simple remasters/up-res'd ports for 30-40$ each.
Assuming Switch NG has a built in microphone this time, Nintendo DS is a much more likely candidate for NSO on Switch NG, because the games were usually no more than 100MB in size.
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ZachyCatGames
Cappy
The video capture feature is like any other optional feature, the baseline is having it disabled and any applications which wish to use it may sacrifice their own resources to do so
Shoulder
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Why Baldur’s Gate III is an accidental PS5 console exclusive
Larian is having trouble fitting Baldur’s Gate III on the Xbox Series S, the lower-priced and lower-powered console in Microsoft’s ninth-generation lineup. Microsoft requires games to run equally on the Xbox Series X and Series S. With Baldur’s Gate III, this parity rule means the game will be...www.engadget.com
Developers trying to get Series S launch requirement dropped. The console's limited amount of RAM is already proving to be a frustrating issue for developers, and we're not even halfway through this console generation.
Hope Nintendo is taking notes. Go big with 16 GB or go home.
This is where I think the Switch 2 will have a leg up because of DLSS. Whereas PS, and Xbox are using software based methods for upscaling in the form of FSR, Switch 2 can utilize its hardware based DLSS to keep internal resolution at a low enough threshold to keep memory requirements within check, while still making games look good enough for say a 4K display.
That said, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe DLSS does use some Ram to help with its rendering, but I’d imagine if the case, it would be less ram required compared to native resolution.
I want to say another advantage of Switch is ARM vs. x86, which I’m pretty certain has a bit less overhead compared to x86 (being RISC vs. CISC), though someone can correct me on that. If the case, then memory requirements may also be less compared to a similarly equipped x86 platform. But again, someone smarter than me can go further detail, and explain the nuances.
Personally, I think MS made a mistake in making the series consoles so different in terms of hardware. They should’ve taken a cue from Nintendo, and simply reduced clocks, and/or decreased memory bandwidth, but kept the general specs of the systems the same. Though I’d imagine the Homebrew community would then try to jailbreak a Series S, and attempt to overclock it, making the Series X a worse value for those who love to tinker.
That all being said, I think another reason why developers are having issues with Series S does also come down to optimization, and for some, a lack of trying. Call me old fashioned, but while it was a nightmare for programmers at the time, the use of fancy, and unique bespoke hardware did push developers to think of creative ways, whether on the technical level, or even from a gameplay perspective.
There’s a fantastic essay from Ars Technica talking with the creator of Prince of Persia who had to find creative ways to make the game work on the Apple II because it lacked a lot of the features other platforms at the time had…including a lack of memory. It was because of these limitations that Shadow Man came to be. Had he had all the hardware available, he probably never would’ve came up with Shadow man, not to mention the nagging from his peers to make his game more enjoyable, and fun.
I’m not saying this works for every scenario, and because we’ve now pretty much gone to standardized hardware, the accessibility for developers is much greater than it used to be. I just have this suspicion some developers out there don’t understand some of these old tricks, or creative ways to work around limitations. It almost feels a case of:
“I have all the hardware in the world…and I still don’t have enough!”
That’s my rant as someone who has never coded in his life. Feel free to shit on my take.
Vanillalite
Bob-omb
Source?Unless you guys have found a cheaper method of retaining these 4GB modules of RAM, 8GB is not likely. 6GB is more likely and even 8GB (adding to 12 and 16 respectively in the T239 config) than 4GB which are being phased out.
And even the Series S with 7.5-8GB is a pain for these devs.
bro/sis/my friend… going with 8 is not the wave if that’s what you want
There is but those are being phased out for 5X if I’m not mistaken.
if they want to take advantage of the economy of scale they’d go for riding the wave that allows them to.
Er, it’s kits with supposedly 16GB in them meaning retail not having 16GB but less than that.
Though we have to be careful, since iirc there was a PS5 kit at one point in time with 16GB at one time and then as we see with the final product, it had 16GB of RAM for retail and the final devkit has more than this.
So things can still change with the amount.
Things like this aren’t reported because RAM can change at the final minute.
So like always to everyone, let’s wait until we are much closer to the launch, by then things are final.
And RAM in this case is more similar to the clockspeed which can change throughout the pre-release.
Also a lot of people seem to be conflating total bandwidth with the need for just more RAM.
Edit: Switch and the S have more bandwidth issues than physical amount. Going down to the 128 bus is the bigger S issue not the amount.
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Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
themes/folders finaly on Switch sucessor?
That would defeat the whole point of it, because that machine woudnt have been much cheaper.
All the series s needed imo is more memory.
Hence I hope Switch is 16gb. 12 is fine, but 16 is more future proof.
Vanillalite
Bob-omb
Again just fix the 128bit bus and you fix 90% if the issues the S has with RAM.
hard to say what exactly is the issue as a lot of it is just conflated to "memory issues".
here's from DF who briefly mentioned "memory issues"
Angel Whispers
Follow me at @angelpagecdlmhq
He isn’t a source, so, while others are welcome to believe it, I wouldn’t take that as gospel. Neither are the podcasters.
RennanNT
Bob-omb
I mean, I agree DS is more likely to come next, even without microphone. My post was more about the feasibility.
With that said...
The big demand are for specific games not for all of them and the sales of these remasters will be strong for 1 or 2 years, but their long tail will be nothing compared to NSO revenue*.
They even put MK8 and AC DLCs there day one, so inferior versions of 2+ years old remasters are no brainers.
*According to MS data, NSO generated $932 mi in 2021, which - for comparison sake only - would be the equivalent of over 15 mi copies of a $60 game. And the Expansion Pack was at it's infancy then.
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OP
OP
Digital Foundry mentioned that the Xbox Series S allocates 8 GB of RAM for video games and Digital Foundry has heard third party developers say RAM is the biggest bottleneck for the Xbox Series S. So both the amount of RAM and the amount of RAM bandwidth are the biggest bottlenecks for the Xbox Series S.
But saying that, I do agree that RAM bandwidth's also very important.
Vanillalite
Bob-omb
We know that? The issue is the X runs at a full 320bit bus and they scaled that down all the way to 128. For reference a card like the 3060Ti which also has 8 gigs of vram runs at 256 bus. The non Ti has more ram but is down at 192.
The amount of RAM for what MS was aiming for was fine. They just gimped the bus speed too much.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
what amount of RAM would be enough/adequate for Switch sucessor? 12GB of RAM, 16?
What evidence do you have to show of bandwidth being the problem? Not a call out, I just know devs have a problem, but I don't know how that problem is manifesting
12GB would be great. With a thin os, it'd have more usable ram than the series s and potentially more bandwidth than an Xbox one s
Sol
Moblin
There is no "overkill" when it comes to available RAM these days. The Switch NG would be very well positioned with 16 GB of LPDDR5X.
8 GB of RAM means developers get, at best, 7 GB of usable RAM (probably less because NIntendo will likely want to increase capabilities of the OS). It's a death sentence for a console that's intended to last past 2030.
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Just spitballing here, but they could go halfway by treating some of their GameCube/Wii ports like they've treated DLC. Like, Expansion Pak subscribers can download and play Super Mario Sunshine for free as long as they're subscribed, everyone else can pay $20 to buy it. Though it would be more confusing.
That is... modern RAMming. PS3 to PS4, x16. PS4 to PS5, x2.
For one, 512 gb is the ceiling, meaning its very likely going to be less.
And 2, the SD launched over a year ago with 16 gb for 400$.1. ram is going to be much cheaper 2 years later and 2. Nintendo would get a better deal than valve due to enormous quantities,
So I say they could definitely do it.
Sol
Moblin
Nintendo just made almost $1.3 billion of profit in a single quarter, of course they can afford it. They've made absurd amounts of money over the last 7 years.
It just comes down to how much profit margin they want on day one with Switch NG. And if they're cutting costs on the display, then I would hope they invest it in areas like RAM.
Flash storage is also incredibly cheap. Prices have plummeted over the last 18 months and will continue to do so. Nintendo wouldn't have even considered 512 GB of storage 2 years ago due to the pricing. But now, it's more than feasible.
Lancelot
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Switch 2's chip unfortunately has way more bottlenecks than what DLSS can realistically bruteforce, so even if you closed the resolution gaps with DLSS alone... You still need to close the CPU, storage, IO, memory bandwidth and thermal gaps, that's simply not feasible for many of the current gen ports we're going to get. Don't get me wrong, it is gonna help but the Drake chip is simply not comparable to the current gen ones and will hit walls in other areas than just resolution.
That and, hopefully, some more customisation. I really don't want to be stuck a whole other generation with 'Basic Black' and 'Basic White' again.
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