StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[My Tulpa]

I think many people got off the Switch Pro train a long time ago. a short cross-gen period like Xbox and PS5 went through could still happen though

3 years isn’t short. And that just shows you how high/long gaming engagement is on the previous systems. That they were willing to cater to it for so long.

I guess people are going to be shocked by how high and how long the user engagement is going to be on these 140 million Switches in comparison.

5 years at least seems reasonable, no? You can call it “cross gen” all you want and have “true successor” in your mind when you buy the new model, doesn’t really matter when it comes to how all the models will be used.

 

[Concernt]

199.99, 299.99, 349.99 (US pricing)
also yeah agree with all of the above, its a typical pricing ladder, plus the lite is very good at targetting house holds with multiple kids that may not wanna share

I pretty much expect the pricing to change to 199.99, 299.99 and 399.99, with the V2 phased out.

 

[AshiodyneFX]

Depends on what you describe as "clean break". I think Xbox Series X|S is again the closest point of comparison. The same OS, but better. The same... "Platform" but better. A drop in replacement that's... Better. But also a new generation.

Playstatio/Nintendo style jump, PS5 still runs Orbis, switch uses a kernel that's heavily based on 3ds work, BC didn't make the PS5 the same platform in the same confusing way it made Series X basically the same platform, games should've new packaging clearly showing "this isnt for the original switch" and 2 years in the majority of games from nintendo should be switch NG exclusive, that kind of clean break

 

[AshiodyneFX]

I pretty much expect the pricing to change to 199.99, 299.99 and 399.99, with the V2 phased out.

I expect, 149.99, 249.99 349.99/399.99, tbh. if V2 is phased out

 

[Νεφέλωμα]

Cant wait to see where we can go with next Switch gen.

That open world 3D Donkey Kong

 

[MuddySeal]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

Lol, bye.........

 

[Concernt]

I expect, 149.99, 249.99 349.99/399.99, tbh. if V2 is phased out

With the current state of inflation, I think a 100 dollar price drop on the OLED is unlikely, unfortunately. The V2 WILL be phased out in the coming year regardless of the successor, purely for production reasons. There are parts in it that can't be replaced anymore.

They'd need a new board revision to keep them on shelves, and why do that when the OLED is that and more already?

This is what still has me hopeful about the next console being sooner than many think. Nintendo likes to have three things on shelves, for market reasons. Nobody buys the medium, but more people buy the large because the medium exists. Soon they simply won't be able to without a revision, or more likely, a new console.

 

[The Competition]

There have been some good, detailed responses about this that I don't have saved, but this was my summary of the idea, and why it might be possible for Nintendo to pull it off:


To condense this even further, you're right in saying that sales of some other Nintendo consoles of the past, such as the Wii U, were hurt at least in part because of the lack of a clearly defined console transition. But things have changed quite a lot since then. It might be different now because of the existence of subscription services and the fact that Switch owners seem to be prone to buying the latest version of Switch over time. We've been seeing a steady increase in Switch OLED sales since it released, and a lot of those sales seem to be people replacing their old Switch with the new one.

A clearly defined console transition might be less risky all things considered. It'll definitely be interesting to see what happens with marketing and how Nintendo deals with the current Switch player base.

I think you make a good point, but as far as I can see this is an argument for why Nintendo should keep releasing some games on Switch 1, not an argument for why Switch NG should be positioned as being in the same family, which is the original thing I was arguing against
If anything this proves my point, by using Sony as an example. Sony very clearly did position PS5 as the next gen, not part of the PS4 family.

 

[Hermii]

that makes zero sense, if that were the case why would they bother investing in a GPU architecture that is 5 generations ahead and will create challenges in implementing BC and have an at minimum 6x power jump in terms of raw power and then wait THIS long to release it? it just makes very little sense.

if that was their goal they would repackage the X1+ with 6/8GBs of RAM, clock it up to 38.4-51.2GBs, put in a larger battery and have released it 2 years ago if not longer ago. it would be alot cheaper, alot easier, alot simpler.

the switch is a console, not a pc, not a phone, it will get a clean break next gen successor just like every nintendo console before it, the time for revisions and simple more powerful models is over.

Besides the point, but not sure how you count 5 gpu gens.

Pascal
Turing
Ampere
3?

 

[AshiodyneFX]

With the current state of inflation, I think a 100 dollar price drop on the OLED is unlikely, unfortunately. The V2 WILL be phased out in the coming year regardless of the successor, purely for production reasons. There are parts in it that can't be replaced anymore.

regardless of inflation, they would probably rather make X/2 and sell say 20 units rather than say... make X off 10 units because it would make them more money on games longer term

bill of materials on switch isnt so high that the inflation makes the console hardware unprofitable but you do make a fair point it is factually unlikely that a 100 dollar drop on oled would happen, however i dont see the lite holding its price at 200

 

[AshiodyneFX]

Besides the point, but not sure how you count 5 gpu gens.

Pascal
Turing
Ampere
3?

Pascal, Volta, Turing, Ampere, i miscounted a fifth

 

[My Tulpa]

I'm glad to hear it, but there are many still on it, or they call the next Switch "Switch 2" but still think it'll share a full library with Switch 1, which basically means it's a Switch Pro. I think recent posts in this very forum were debating this within the last few days. And SwitchForce was a strong believer of this until a podcast starting to shift his mind just a bit a few days ago. I think this idea is still strong in a noticeable amount of people's heads.

I think this gives me the perfect chance to explain my problem with the whole Switch Pro shared library concept.
This will be nothing like going from black & white -> colour. Either the new system will be a big leap or it won't be, but either way this concept makes no sense:

Small leap scenario:
Games won't look noticeably different, so the original argument falls (i.e. people won't be very excited by the Switch NG).

Big leap scenario:

I’m partly to blame, I guess, for this coming up here again.

I’ve read this entire thread from top to bottom. I’ve seen people come in here and say “oh come on, you know Nintendo…they always cheap out. There is no way they are creating something as powerful as you guys say. This is still a portable. The best we can expect is maybe locked 1080p and steadier framerates.”

And then I’ve seen other people respond and say “well, we kind of know from the leaks that this new hardware is this powerful. And Nintendo does have a history of releasing cutting edge tech (though might not be used to push resolution and graphics like other consoles use it.) But yes, this is a 6x power leap! Next gen successor! Nintendo is going to go HAM on how they develop games to utilize its power in ways the OLED can’t possibly!

I choose to live in between this.

This is cutting edge, very powerful mobile tech. But going by Nintendo history, it won’t be utilized by Nintendo the way people want/expect.

Some would like me to believe the 12SM and all those CUDA cores making it a 6x gpu and the extra bandwidth and RAM…Nintendo is going to use to make crazy “next gen” games that couldn’t possibly work on the OLED.

I only argue that the reason Nintendo/Nvidia spent the money to go “wide” like that (overkill as some here call it), is because we are talking about ~11w-25w with minimal clocks. I argue that that large/wide was necessary to get DLSS upscaling to function adequately enough at this level.

That’s it. Nothing more crazy than that. And that’s what it will be used for by Nintendo. To place a Switch Lite developed/rendered ToTK game and have it outputted as a 4K/60fps game on your Drake model, which improved graphical IQ.

That’s the most rational guess one would make about how Nintendo will use this tech. To finally get the Switch library of games to run/look like they wished they could since 2017.

As far as pro vs successor…who cares. It won’t be referred to either by Nintendo.

If this new Switch comes out early 2024, that’s exactly 7 years after the first Switch launch. And golly gee, that’s exactly the lifespan of a normal console these days before a true successor releases

And Nintendo has told us many, many times they expect the Switch to have a much longer lifecycle than a normal console.

I choose to believe them in this than some people on this forum I don’t believe they will look at Drake a typical console successor type thing.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This is irrelevant to what the discussion was. The bottom line was that the systems you mentioned Nintendo chose to break away from the previous hardware in terms of software development and future services. Even accounts.

And this new hardware isn’t doing any of that.

GameCube to Wii was very explicitly about allowing existing software development tools to continue to be used. At the time I incorrectly assumed they'd continue to release some games not built around motion control as GameCube games that might have expanded Wii features. But they just multiplatformed Twilight Princess, poached Super Paper Mario, and called it a day.

Define “feasible”

I guess uhh... actually fits in RAM without cutting out half of what's going on.

Switch —-> Drake is the same architecture. With a much wider power gap. But the power gap is specifically designed to take the same exact software development used for the current Switch models and run them on the new hardware and let DLSS make it a locked resolution to match the screen being used.

And that extra power left over after this is used to have a locked, steady performance. And to push graphic IQ higher.

But it’s going to run the exact same game.

Which is different from the previous Nintendo system breaks you mentioned.

If their goal is just to make Switch software run decently at 4K, either they overdeveloped the T239, or their test case for "before" were things like Witcher 3 and Xenoblade 2 which could get to pretty low resolutions. Mario Kart 8 or Smash could maybe get to 6K60 or 4K120, enough so that DLSS might not be able to keep up in a helpful way. Unless maybe they blow some resources on ray tracing to slow it down.

 

[Vantell]

I choose to believe them in this than some people on this forum I don’t believe they will look at Drake a typical console successor type thing.

I wonder if they going to put the Switch successor as a Switch 'Color' or a Switch 'Advance'.

 

[My Tulpa]

I don’t get why there’s disagreement over the next Switch either being a mid gen or next gen upgrade (Pro vs. 2).

At this point in the Switch’s lifetime, a successor console is coming. The next gen device won’t immediately phase-out the previous gen, much like how the OLED is phasing out the older devices still.

Yes, the Switch 2 will coexist with the OLED and other two devices. Yes, we’ll have a crossgen period and Nintendo will release software for the Switch, but it won’t be permanent.

Define permanent

Nintendo won’t stop supporting all the Switch consoles with software releases until whatever the next hardware after Drake comes out (imo)

Last post from me for a bit cos I know I've spammed the community a bit.

I just want to say, I think this would be the worst thing Nintendo could do in my opinion.
When they say they want a "smooth transition" I'm pretty sure that means fast adoption of the new hardware, with no signs of stumbling or reluctance from consumers i.e. not what the 3DS went through, and not what the Wii U went through.
If they advertise the Switch NG as just another one in the family, I can't see any world where that doesn't cut sales in half at least. Why would they want that?

Because software sales (and engagement) is more important than sales of new hardware.

The whole point of a smooth transition is to get people to move over quickly and happily.

Smooth transition for Nintendo means not disrupting the userbase of the current system as well as not disrupting the interest in the new system. You can actually appease both by positioning this new model the right way.

Yes they can have backwards compatibility, and they can even release more Switch 1 games for a couple of years, I DO expect that, but they should, and probably will, still market the Switch 2 as a new gen, and give it exclusives to push sales as quickly as possible. I don't see any incentive for Nintendo to intentionally try to tell people they don't have to upgrade. Sony released games for PS4 for a while, but they never told people PS5 is just another one in the family - that would be like shooting themselves in the foot for not benefit at all imo.

I’m pretty sure Nintendo would rather give out the message that the current Switch gamers that they have cultivated shouldn’t worry about being able to play most Nintendo Switch games on the devices they currently own.

I don’t see how the message of “buy this $400 device or miss out!” does them any favors

Thank you. They won’t place the Switch 2 as part of the Switch Family of Systems. They’ll position it as the New/Next Generation of the Switch, and once a Lite 2 enters the market, it’ll be the New/Next Generation of the Switch Family of Devices.

There is no negative in placing Drake as part of the Switch family of Systems. So why not do it?

 

[ILikeFeet]

3 years isn’t short. And that just shows you how high/long gaming engagement is on the previous systems. That they were willing to cater to it for so long.

I guess people are going to be shocked by how high and how long the user engagement is going to be on these 140 million Switches in comparison.

5 years at least seems reasonable, no? You can call it “cross gen” all you want and have “true successor” in your mind when you buy the new model, doesn’t really matter when it comes to how all the models will be used.

who's gonna support it? indies? sure. they don't sell big numbers outside of outliers. B-level developers? same thing

Nintendo? beyond first year, nah. they said themselves they will focus on new hardware

bigger AA-AAA devs? they barely support switch as is. Drake comes out, switch is dropped like Andy dropped Woody. if you think there's gonna be a half million seller on Switch after the first year of Drake, I got a bridge to sell you

 

[manfromthedam]

IMHO his blog posts are unworthy of dissecting. Witness his pearl of wisdom regarding Zelda and Aonuma:

Yeah seriously, Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild are two amazing - and very different - takes on Zelda. yes this is a sly dig at totk

Spoiler: Dubious Speculation/Pattern Recognition

Within-24-hours-of-the-First-Tuesday-in-July-Following-Independence-Day-in-the-US-#Team23 theory:
Wednesday, July 10th, 2019: Switch Lite Announced
Tuesday, July 6th, 2021: Switch OLED Model Announced
Tuesday or Wednesday, July 11th or 12th, 2023: ???

Ayup, not ruling out next week myself either. After that though, it's over for 2023 to me, and time to look forward to Super Mario Bros Wonder Baybeeee

 

[Thomas_T9]

First, thanks everyone who reached out privately. Ya'll are cool.

Second, let's do some speculating/wishing. What do ya'll want from the next console other than performance. Squishy triggers? A 1080p screen? A second screen? New colors? It can be literally anything.

The rules are - reply to this message directly, but no judging each other's picks. No telling folks why it's not possible, or what it's unlikely, or why the shouldn't want it. I just want people to say what they imagine the next thing might have. It's cool if it's a weird niche thing, it's cool if it's boring. Just let me know. I'm a little tired of this rut of "the same but better" and odds are Nintendo has one surprise cooking, and if it's yours, I want to celebrate that you get your weird niche thing!

Some specs and features I would like to see in Nintendo Switch 2:

• 7.0 inch 1080p OLED screen
• 128 GB system storage
• Wi-Fi 6 802.11ax
• Bluetooth 5.2
• 2160p video output
• HDR10 and HLG
• Auto Low Latency, VRR and HGIG

 

[Semi Lazy Gamer]

Spoiler: Dubious Speculation/Pattern Recognition

Within-24-hours-of-the-First-Tuesday-in-July-Following-Independence-Day-in-the-US-#Team23 theory:
Wednesday, July 10th, 2019: Switch Lite Announced
Tuesday, July 6th, 2021: Switch OLED Model Announced
Tuesday or Wednesday, July 11th or 12th, 2023: ???

If there is a new generation, I think Nintendo might wait until next Friday and time it with the Famicom's 40th Anniversary.

If it isn't, then a new Switch might be announced.

 

[My Tulpa]

Simple. For a mid gen upgrade normally increase performance around 2 - 3x (PS4 > PS4 Pro) & for a new gen upgrade normally increase performance to more than 5x or even more (PS4 > PS5). Switch already 7 years using the same performance profile, so it's more logical to release a new gen than a mid gen.

Not sure why anyone would apply “normal” and “logical” for a unique Nintendo hybrid system compared to a traditional Sony home console.

Both companies don’t even have the same goals or motivations or priorities on why their gaming platforms exist. Let alone how the console design/function differs.

You shouldn’t expect them to treat things similarly

 

[grobla123]

Oh there will certainly be at least some Nintendo published games on OG switch 1-2 years+ in to Redrakted's life, maybe not the next Zelda, but another 2d Mario, brain training, who knows. And it'll be like the ps2/and a lesser extent the wii/ds where quite a lot of 3rd parties keep supporting it years down the line. The install base is enormous, expectations/cost of switch fidelity games may be lower than PS5/series X, there are tones of 3rd party games in the potential port well. And Redrakted will probably be backcompat, meaning at the very least people can play it on modern hardware, next gen patches or not. I just expect a clear delineation some new gen games and a handful of true exclusives. The switch won't be left behind substantially more the PS4. The big reason devs might move on might just be the work of porting newer games or not quite realizing their vision on the older hardware. But plenty of devs will try and squeeze stuff on to both. I could totally see Nintendo name it something like Switch 4k, Switch Up, or something to try and keep the platform all in one basket though, but I could also see something that separates them more too.

 

[Enton]

Spoiler: Dubious Speculation/Pattern Recognition

Within-24-hours-of-the-First-Tuesday-in-July-Following-Independence-Day-in-the-US-#Team23 theory:
Wednesday, July 10th, 2019: Switch Lite Announced
Tuesday, July 6th, 2021: Switch OLED Model Announced
Tuesday or Wednesday, July 11th or 12th, 2023: ???

Excellent,

Spoiler: Team23

dies 2 weeks earlier

 

[Ojoloco]

* Texto oculto: no se puede citar. *

To view the content, you need to Sign In or Register.

 

[Giancarlo]

Notably, the first time Mario Kart DLC has EVER come out on the Wednesday of the week. I wonder what's so important about Tuesday, Thursday or Friday...

tuesday, thursday e friday are the days Nintendo do a Nintendo Direct/Indie World Showcase and in the friday case release it games.

 

[My Tulpa]

Back when Drake began development in 2019 and apparently being completed and taped out in mid 2022, it seems likely that the original target for releasing new hardware was likely 2023, and maybe the original target was late 2022 when the process started. Im sure there were some delays thanks to Covid but instead of these delays being concerning for Nintendo, they instead watched Switch sales explode in 2020 and 2021. During this period of time, I cant really see a reason Nintendo "couldn't" pump the brakes a bit on the release timing of Redacted. Up until the point where Nintendo has made contracts with manufacturing partners, the plans can remain rather flexible. Certainly waiting too long would pose the risk of Drake becoming too antiquated to be viable for the Switch successor, but we are a couple years away from that being a reasonable argument.

Could Nintendo have looked at the momentum for Switch in late 2021 and into 2022 and decide that it is actually in their best interest to ride out Switch for an extra 12-18 months before rolling out new hardware?

No. Because in late 2020 Nintendo said they were just entering the “mid-point” of the Switch lifecycle. Something they again reiterated in early 2021.

In holiday 2021, they said we are in the “middle phase” of the Switch lifecycle.

Contrast that with Sony in early 2018 saying we were in the “final phase” of the ps4 lifecycle (if you must).

So Nintendo knew well before 2021/2022 sales that the Switch lifecycle would be abnormally elongated.

 

[SiG]

Nintendo won’t stop supporting all the Switch consoles with software releases until whatever the next hardware after Drake comes out (imo)

I disagree. Nintendo didn't stop supporting the GBA when the DS was out, and the DS likewise was still getting titles despite the 3DS having been launched.

When the next hardware comes out, expect the Switch to still be marketed to a certain extent (as an entry level gaming device), but most of the focus will likely be put on the successor. Support for base Switch will be there, but I'd only expect it to be cut off once the sales for it have trickled down.

 

[TLZ]

I just want the Activity Log back maaaaaaan. I don't wanna wait after a week of starting a game to know how much time I've put into playing it. I'm not a fan of play time in your Switch profile being only in increments of 5 hours. I don't want being informed about cool play time statistics to only be a once a year thing.

I want to know again how much time I played everyday

It was just cool how Nintendo presented your play time like this

and how you could know stuff like, how many times you opened an app/game

Yes. Yes. I absolutely love this.

Please bring it back or make it better.

 

[AlexTheRecluse]

I feel some people overestimate the potential success of the next gen console. It will be near impossible to make a system as popular as the Switch, but having big third party support is definitely a must.

It's all about the games. If Nintendo can supply a full and regular release schedule of high quality titles, I don't see why it cannot be just as if not more successful.

They understand that gameplay is king, and some of the technical deficiencies of the original Switch should be mitigated by [REDACTED], so I feel as though the sky really is the limit.

Just remember Nintendo, polish, polish, polish. Yes development may take longer and cost a little bit more, but it builds trust and loyalty with/in your consumer base if you present a polished product.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Honestly I have significant doubts Nintendo would ever support 1440p specifically as an output resolution. You don't really find native 1440p TVs and certain popular TV vendors (cough*Samsung*cough) have a history of not properly supporting it on their 4k TVs. I think the next step up from 1080p video output will probably just be 4k, regardless of what resolution they're targeting internally.

Alright, but my point wasn't that I wanted it to output a specific resolution - I just chose a resolution that was slightly higher than what the Switch output.

 

[Quailman]

Pascal, Volta, Turing, Ampere, i miscounted a fifth

Maxwell > Pascal > Turing > Ampere > Ada

While Volta is technically the successor to pascal... the GPU architecture was made for workstations and data centers not for consumer GPUs.

 

[AshiodyneFX]

Maxwell > Pascal > Turing > Ampere > Ada

While Volta is technically the successor to pascal... the GPU architecture was made for workstations and data centers not for consumer GPUs.

it still is the pioneer for tensor instead of a side step like hopper so i still think it counts

 

[Concernt]

Maxwell > Pascal > Turing > Ampere > Ada

While Volta is technically the successor to pascal... the GPU architecture was made for workstations and data centers not for consumer GPUs.

If you count it by CUDA version rather than named releases, I'm pretty sure we're looking at Drake being 4 or more generations ahead of Maxwell. Above Ampere, below Ada.

(Which tracks, as I understand it, Tegra X1 was essentially Maxwell+, and Drake seems to be Ampere+, unnamed refinements on the previous gen.)

 

[My Tulpa]

I would argue that, knowing what we know, it should be far, far easier to port games from Gen 8 and 9 to NG Switch than it was Gens 7 and 8 to Switch. Making it likely cheaper to do so, and thus, likely meaning companies could see a better return on investment. Even if the audience isn't as "there" as they'd like, they'd rather make some money than no money.

Assuming this is true…that it’s easier/cheaper to port a Series S game to Drake than it was to port an Xbox One game to Switch (I don’t doubt you on this)…you still have to consider active userbase. And most importantly, demand.

My argument, is that because Nintendo will make it clear that support of the 140 million Switch consoles in existence will continue indefinitely, Drake userbase will grow at a slower rate. (Especially if it’s priced at a premium price)

So then we are back to square one.

If you are going to port a game to Drake Switch as an exclusive, and ignore all the Lite/Hybrid/OLED users, you are going to have to be confident in having a high attachment rate demand to overcome the much smaller userbase size.

I believe most publishers of certain games will still see 1 million in sales for their multiplat as a ceiling, not even a guarantee

In the end, most publishers and developers will want their games to run on both the Drake and the Lite/OLED

 

[Dark Cloud]

If there is a new generation, I think Nintendo might wait until next Friday and time it with the Famicom's 40th Anniversary.

If it isn't, then a new Switch might be announced.

I don’t think Nintendo cares to hinge their future on a date from 40 years ago…lol

 

[ILikeFeet]

In the end, most publishers and developers will want their games to run on both the Drake and the Lite/OLED

that's very unlikely. again, companies barely support switch as is. and those that do, the majority either want off the switch or don't sell enough games to be relevant to the lifespan of the system

is that because Nintendo will make it clear that support of the 140 million Switch consoles in existence will continue indefinitely

from a "we'll still accept games" standpoint, sure.

from a "we (nintendo) will support switch" standpoint, they already made their intentions known. they're not going to stick with switch development for very long. when Nintendo bounces, so will the players

 

[My Tulpa]

Switch will slowly fade away just like any other previous generation. Imagine they’ll do ok just like past Playstation consoles do for a couple of years but the big sales will be with Switch 2…..at least when stock allows!

No different to the PS5 potentially selling 100m despite the PS4 and PS4 Pro still being available and with some big releases.

The ps4 and ps4 pro stopped production before the ps5 released (just like the Xbox one and One X did)

They did re start ps4 production in 2021 to supplement the fact that markets had zero PlayStation products to buy…but ps4 pro production did not restart.

They have already stopped ps4 production (well, Sony no longer have ps4 shipments to report)

Again, Nintendo gamers are going to be perfectly fine and active on the Lite/Hybrid/OLED for wayyyyyy longer than ps4 gamers were/have been

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The ps4 and ps4 pro stopped production before the ps5 released (just like the Xbox one and One X did)

They did re start ps4 production in 2021 to supplement the fact that markets had zero PlayStation products to buy…but ps4 pro production did not restart.

They have already stopped ps4 production (well, Sony no longer have ps4 shipments to report)

Again, Nintendo gamers are going to be perfectly fine and active on the Lite/Hybrid/OLED for wayyyyyy longer than ps4 gamers were/have been

I mean, this depends heavily on whether or not games are released on the Switch 1 after the Switch 2 releases.

The PS5 had like 3 exclusives in its first two years and every big multiplatform game was on the PS4.

This is much more in the air for the Switch transition.

 

[Icybubba]

I wonder if they going to put the Switch successor as a Switch 'Color' or a Switch 'Advance'.

Super Nintendo Switch lol

 

[My Tulpa]

I was talking more about the narrative the Switch has and not the actual sales. Nintendo needs third parties to get people into their eco system. (of course it‘s not the only way).

Right, they do need 3rd party. My reply was that they don’t need Drake to bring specific ps5/Series X type 3rd party that the past 7 years of Switch didn’t already get from ps4/one 3rd party.

That was not my point though. I mean you could probably develop a port of most PS4 games (especially those which released without the PS4 Pro in mind because late gen PS4 games run also bad on PS4) within 12 months like the Witcher 3. But the past 2 years showed that the Switch is obviously falling more behind and ports like these become less realistic.

The last 2 years were the best years of the Switch. So, that proves that the ports they missed during that time were irrelevant.

I mean you would probably need to create a new version of FF16 to get that game running on Switch.

Which is fine. I bet a Switch specific mainline FF game would sell far better than FF16 will sell on the ps5. Regardless of graphics.

Also a good example is GTAV. Why should they invest time and money to port the game to the Switch (even if it’s just the single player) when they can make much more money by developing the next GTA online expansion (which would be really difficult to have the Switch constantly updated with the other versions).

Agreed. The main reason GTAV wasn’t ported to the switch (it easily could have been) is because 2k doesn’t see the point if it doesn’t facilitate the GTA online ecosystem. Which a portable Nintendo system is horrible at.

And at some point even Epic will not see it feasible to update Fortnite on Switch. Also Minecraft Switch is currently the worst version that still gets updated.

If engagement is high enough for those two games on the Switch they will support it. Better hardware doesn’t increase/change that. I bet more people play Minecraft on the Switch than the ps5 or ps4 pro.

I don‘t think so. Many games get possible on a more powerful platform with much less porting effort. I mean you will not need like an extra version of EA football and if an AA publisher wants to try how well their games sell on a Nintendo platform it‘s much less of a risk. A developer can be lazier with a more powerful hardware.

Ok, but what we know from the Drake SoC, developers don’t have the luxury of being “lazy” to port a ps5 game to it any more than they were “lazy” to port a ps4 game to it.

It will have the same kind of support the next 6 years it has had the last 6 years.

 

[My Tulpa]

that makes zero sense, if that were the case why would they bother investing in a GPU architecture that is 5 generations ahead and will create challenges in implementing BC and have an at minimum 6x power jump in terms of raw power and then wait THIS long to release it?

The GPU design choice was to essentially run ToTK through DLSS to get 4K/60fps on a mobile device.

As far as waiting THIS long? Who knows. With all the 2020 devkit talk and then rumors Nintendo changed strategies a bit…we’d go crazy trying to predict why Nintendo makes the decisions they do.

I just don’t think the delay is so that they could position this upgrade model as a replacement for all the previous models.

if that was their goal they would repackage the X1+ with 6/8GBs of RAM, clock it up to 38.4-51.2GBs, put in a larger battery and have released it 2 years ago if not longer ago. it would be alot cheaper, alot easier, alot simpler.

But Nintendo sees value in DLSS for the future of their software development and hardware development. They LOVE the fact it means they don’t have to chase hardware power for rendering, They can continue to develop games to run basically at 720p/30fps and let the tech make it run better (4K/60fps)

This is the future. Hardware will not be used to render games natively.

So you are asking why nintendo didn’t focus on non DLSS power upgrades? Cause it’s not their future.

What this Drake SoC allows them to do is future. So why not let Nintendo experiment with it now with Drake?

the switch is a console, not a pc, not a phone, it will get a clean break next gen successor just like every nintendo console before it, the time for revisions and simple more powerful models is over.

lol.

It’s almost like you forget how Nintendo described how revolutionary NX would be to how they approach hardware…

 

[AshiodyneFX]

The GPU design choice was to essentially run ToTK through DLSS to get 4K/60fps on a mobile device.

couple of counter points, turing is cheaper and gives you DLSS, overclocking a switch already gets TOTK to 60fps and FSR 2.0 is easily enabled provided more ram, allowing it to be deployed even on maxwell giving you "4K". it still makes zero sense to go with Ampere at that level of power for a simple pro model

But Nintendo sees value in DLSS for the future of their software development and hardware development. They LOVE the fact it means they don’t have to chase hardware power for rendering, They can continue to develop games to run basically at 720p/30fps and let the tech make it run better (4K/60fps)

DLSS 2.x doesn't allow for such dramatic shifts in performance the hardware still needs to have a lot more grunt that increases costs far more than a beefed up X1, Drake before DLSS is 6x the performance of the X1 in raw power alone far more if you factor in CPU, features, bandwidth, etc. companies don't make jumps that massive for a relatively minor refresh

It’s almost like you forget how Nintendo described how revolutionary NX would be to how they approach hardware…

as far as I remember NX's revolutionary approach was to be a "unified platform" as in a hybrid with adequate controls for the majority of their ideas and an account system they do not have to ditch every gen that they could scale up, nothing about abandoning the traditional console generation



like it or not drake is very clearly being designed to enable experiences straight up not possible on Erista or Mariko. its just a fact

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

To view the content, you need to Sign In or Register.

 

[MP!]

GameCube to Wii was very explicitly about allowing existing software development tools to continue to be used. At the time I incorrectly assumed they'd continue to release some games not built around motion control as GameCube games that might have expanded Wii features. But they just multiplatformed Twilight Princess, poached Super Paper Mario, and called it a day.

I wonder if GameCube had 130 million units if it would be a different story in that regard

 

[Lancelot]

The GPU design choice was to essentially run ToTK through DLSS to get 4K/60fps on a mobile device.

As far as waiting THIS long? Who knows. With all the 2020 devkit talk and then rumors Nintendo changed strategies a bit…we’d go crazy trying to predict why Nintendo makes the decisions they do.

I just don’t think the delay is so that they could position this upgrade model as a replacement for all the previous models.



But Nintendo sees value in DLSS for the future of their software development and hardware development. They LOVE the fact it means they don’t have to chase hardware power for rendering, They can continue to develop games to run basically at 720p/30fps and let the tech make it run better (4K/60fps)

This is the future. Hardware will not be used to render games natively.

So you are asking why nintendo didn’t focus on non DLSS power upgrades? Cause it’s not their future.

What this Drake SoC allows them to do is future. So why not let Nintendo experiment with it now with Drake?




lol.

It’s almost like you forget how Nintendo described how revolutionary NX would be to how they approach hardware…

I'm not sure what are you trying to argue with all of this. Like mentioned, Drake is very clearly meant to enable experiences that won't run in the Switch, no matter what. Nintendo paid for a huge, cutting edge chip that they will obviously and definitely use, even with the many hurdles it brings regarding backwards compatibility. They spent almost a billion worth of dollars to expand their internal studios for these challenges, so thinking this is the level they will stay with... That's outright not happening.

Nintendo themselves said it, Switch isn't receiving any more first party support the moment this thing is out. Perhaps your small, devoid of ambition game but all their efforts will be focused on experiences not possible on Switch. The power jump alone should be already telling you this but well, not much left to be said here.

 

[lexony]

Ok, but what we know from the Drake SoC, developers don’t have the luxury of being “lazy” to port a ps5 game to it any more than they were “lazy” to port a ps4 game to it.

Though there are very few third party games that really "require" a PS5 to run. Games like Street Fighter 6, Resident Evil 4 Remake or Elden Ring could maybe made run quite well on Switch Drake while there would be significant time investment with a considerable technical downgrade needed to get them run on current Switch.

While I don‘t expect way more AAA third parties for a Drake Machine, there at least seem to be overall less of a roadblock. Third parties currently seem to be way more scalable for each hardware than just a few years ago.

 

[Concernt]

Drake before DLSS is 6x the performance of the X1

I think people forget this.

Drake isn't 6X Nintendo Switch when all is said and done.

It's 6X Nintendo Switch. Before DLSS.

According to Microsoft, Nintendo Switch is the equivalent of 0.75TF to Xbox One's 1.4TF.

6*0.75=4.5

4.5TF

Before DLSS.

That's assuming clock speeds don't increase.

I don't think there will be a single game for a very, very, VERY long time that can't survive, can't at least function and run on a 4.5TF machine. And I doubt DLSS would struggle to make them run pretty alright, even then.

Don't underestimate this thing.

(Some notes:

Nintendo Switch is not literally 0.75TF, it's 0.75TF as a proportion of the performance of Xbox One, where Xbox One's performance = 1.4TF and Xbox Series S performance = 4TF.

Why are these numbers weird and non-literal? Because you can't really compare desktop AMD to mobile Nvidia. However, Microsoft has done the conversion for us, one Nintendo Switch has the EQUIVALENT of about one half an Xbox One. A little over, even.

So, Drake is not LITERALLY 4.5TF, but Microsoft could compare it to Xbox One and say it is the EQUIVALENT PERFORMANCE of an Xbox One IF it had 4.5TF of performance.

As others have pointed out, likely the raw score is probably around the 3.45TF range, but "equivalent" to 4TF of AMD performance. Within spitting distance. Still, that's very, very commendable, and will likely be helped along by extras like its RT cores and Tensor cores.

This also isn't accounting for the CPU, which is bound to be weaker than Xbox Series S. Though it can be noted that it's possible that the system may have more RAM than Series S, and developers may delegate usually CPU tasks to tensor cores, so the gap might not be as gulchtious as it seems.)

 

[Concernt]

Nintendo themselves said it, Switch isn't receiving any more first party support the moment this thing is out.

I don't believe they said that.

 

[Lancelot]

I don't believe they said that.

You didn't read my whole comment, though.

 

[TomNookYankees]

So wait I'm a little confused:

 

[Concernt]

You didn't read my whole comment, though.

...what an odd accusation. I did, really. I just chose to quote a small part of that I felt was relevant.