Dekuman
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Because some rich kid's parents rented it for a birthday party, at least that's what I always expect it to be
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That's a weird way to refer to Doug Bowser
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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Is there any more info on this? I'd be very, very surprised if it was actually a custom chip, it sounds more like a custom binning of one of their existing GPUs.Dont forget the surface book.
Microsoft Surface Book Comes With A Custom NVIDIA GPU
We all know Microsoft Surface Book can be bought with a discrete GPU. Microsoft has only mentioned that it is a NVIDIA GeForce Graphics Processor and they didn’t reveal any technical specifications of it. Microsoft didn’t announce the model name of the GeForce processor as they have built a...mspoweruser.com
ezidro3
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Assuming Wikipedia is right, then you’re right. They state it’s a 940M with half (1GB) of VRAM
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Surface Book has dual-GPU setup with custom 1GB GDDR5 Maxwell GPU
Expensive models of Microsoft's new Surface Book have both integrated and discrete graphics, including a custom Maxwell GPU from NVIDIA.
www.tweaktown.com
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Consumers who opt in for the $1900 and above flavors get a second discrete GPU that's housed in the attached keyboard base. The discrete solution is a Maxwell-based GPU with 1GB of GDDR5 VRAM that's been custom-built by NVIDIA. "The new GPU is a Maxwell-based GPU, and was designed to deliver the best performance in ultra-thin form factors such as the Surface Book keyboard dock," NVIDIA told Gizmodo. "With NVIDIA GeForce GPU powering this new hybrid, users will be able to speed up productivity apps such as Adobe Illustrator and Lightroom, and light PC gaming."
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/47928/surface-book-dual-gpu-setup-custom-1gb-gddr5-maxwell/index.html"
edit: one more source
Tech Specs Of Custom Nvidia GPU In Microsoft Surface Book Revealed
We all know Microsoft Surface Book can be bought with a discrete GPU. Microsoft has only mentioned that it is a NVIDIA GeForce Graphics Processor and they didn’t reveal any technical specifications of it. Microsoft didn’t announce the model name of the GeForce processor as they have built a...
mspoweruser.com
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Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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Surface Book has dual-GPU setup with custom 1GB GDDR5 Maxwell GPU
Expensive models of Microsoft's new Surface Book have both integrated and discrete graphics, including a custom Maxwell GPU from NVIDIA.
"
Consumers who opt in for the $1900 and above flavors get a second discrete GPU that's housed in the attached keyboard base. The discrete solution is a Maxwell-based GPU with 1GB of GDDR5 VRAM that's been custom-built by NVIDIA. "The new GPU is a Maxwell-based GPU, and was designed to deliver the best performance in ultra-thin form factors such as the Surface Book keyboard dock," NVIDIA told Gizmodo. "With NVIDIA GeForce GPU powering this new hybrid, users will be able to speed up productivity apps such as Adobe Illustrator and Lightroom, and light PC gaming."
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/47928/surface-book-dual-gpu-setup-custom-1gb-gddr5-maxwell/index.html"
edit: one more source
Tech Specs Of Custom Nvidia GPU In Microsoft Surface Book Revealed
We all know Microsoft Surface Book can be bought with a discrete GPU. Microsoft has only mentioned that it is a NVIDIA GeForce Graphics Processor and they didn’t reveal any technical specifications of it. Microsoft didn’t announce the model name of the GeForce processor as they have built a...mspoweruser.com
Saying it's not an off-the-shelf product doesn't mean it's not using an existing GPU die. It looks like they took the GM108 and combined it with 1GB GDDR5, which is enough for them to call it a custom product.
Here's a quote from Anandtech's review:
They're using 2k wrong. Or rather, "xK" is a bad and ambiguous way to describe resolution that we're stuck with now because TV manufacturers decided to awkwardly import imprecise shorthand used in cinematography as marketing language.
Basically, what I'm saying is that 16:9 1440p is actually 2.5k.
stodesign12
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I agree. And not only that, but not having games announced for 2024 (I mean the next year in general, without an specific date) is unusual too.
Goodtwin
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Can Drake fit on this board? I don't know about you guys, but I have always assumed Switch 2 form factor would change at least a little, but what if the form factor remains the same? Can the Switch OLED board accommodate a larger SOC? I would assume Drake even on 4NM is larger than the X1 on 16nm FF? Joy Cons are detachable so they could design a new set to be more comfortable in the hands. Nintendo has Switch 4K trademarked, so perhaps that is how they are planning to market this thing, heavily around its improved docked performance. The Switch OLED dock has the ability to output 4K and the standard Switch doesn't. So having your OLED dock work with the new Switch model would be a nice perk for those who upgraded.
This is more of a dev issue than a tech one. The dragon is literally how Epic advertised nanite, but Luminous has no virtualize geometry or mesh shader support, so this is needlessly wasting processes.
That said, Drake will support mesh shaders, which is easier on skinned geometry, I hear. Higher polygon assets does have their own benefit in that you can put in more detail and save on some texture maps like normal maps. With a good GI solution, you could save on some other maps like AO maps and curvature maps. There's a good number of Nintendo devs who could make ample use of having the polygon ceiling raised
Mr.Gamerson
Octorok
Switch 2 Shadow drop lol
Do you guys think a 3 month or less turnaround from announcement will be better for sales or worse?
I'm guessing better because people will likely be so shocked by the announcement and quick release that they may be more likely to overlook price (if it ends being more expensive than expected) in order to get the system. Considering how off trusted sources have been regarding the launch of this system, the quick turnaround will even be surprising to the enthusiast Nintendo fans.
The quick release strategy seems to be working wonders for Prime Remastered. I also think the rumored F-ZERO GX remaster will get shadow dropped in the same way in the next major direct.
Do you guys think a 3 month or less turnaround from announcement will be better for sales or worse?
I'm guessing better because people will likely be so shocked by the announcement and quick release that they may be more likely to overlook price (if it ends being more expensive than expected) in order to get the system. Considering how off trusted sources have been regarding the launch of this system, the quick turnaround will even be surprising to the enthusiast Nintendo fans.
The quick release strategy seems to be working wonders for Prime Remastered. I also think the rumored F-ZERO GX remaster will get shadow dropped in the same way in the next major direct.
palemire
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D
Deleted member 887
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Tegra X1 is 2 billion transistors. Orin is 17 billion. A decent guesstimate for Drake would be half Orin*.
Looking at die size and transistor count of the 2080 (12nm), the 3090 (8nm), and the 4090(5nm), I think Drake would get to ~Erista size on 8nm, and ~Mariko size on 5nm, but that is very ballparky.
* Half the IO lanes, half the memory controllers, 2/3rds the CPUs, 3/4 the GPU, no DLA (essentially a second, smaller GPU), no PVI (which is an extra ARM core, plus two large VPUs).
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I could see it being like the Prime Remastered situation. Shadowdrop Switch 2 for download on the eShop same day and then retail availability will catch up at a later date.
Serif
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Nintendo could quite literally shadowdrop a boost mode update for all Mariko Switches. Download the Switch ProI could see it being like the Prime Remastered situation. Shadowdrop Switch 2 for download on the eShop same day and then retail availability will catch up at a later date.
maidhhc
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Is it at all possible that they would consider doing some kind of boost alongside TotK ?
Serif
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I mean..... that'd be one way to reconcile the "updated hardware was shelved" story. Nintendo was gonna ship boosted Mariko OLEDs as a Pro and then opted to just let us download the boost instead
Dekuman
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That's been my speculation. The OG Switch's cooling solution was overkill so the Mariko switches actually scaled down the cooling pipe (not sure about the fan specs)I mean..... that'd be one way to reconcile the "updated hardware was shelved" story. Nintendo was gonna ship boosted Mariko OLEDs as a Pro and then opted to just let us download the boost instead
And people have pointed out the larger vents on the dock
A significantly overclocked Mariko would make sense as a pro.
D
Deleted member 887
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Worse. The enthusiast numbers will move the same almost no matter what Nintendo does, it's everyone else they've gotta worry about. I doubt Nintendo will spend less time marketing their next gen hardware than they spent on Kirby's Return to Dreamland Deluxe.
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I think selling 100% of what they're able to ship for months from launch would be neither better nor worse than selling 100% of what they're able to ship for months from launch.
Serif
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What could've beenI mean..... that'd be one way to reconcile the "updated hardware was shelved" story. Nintendo was gonna ship boosted Mariko OLEDs as a Pro and then opted to just let us download the boost instead
Goodtwin
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So the short answer to that is basically yes. The reason I was thinking about this is because the amount of lead time needed to go from starting manufacturing to release day could be shorter than normal if the design is essentially a Switch OLED. Most of the components would be things that Nintendo already sources. If there was any merit to the report that Nintendo was looking to increase production of Switch units this upcoming fiscal year could be due to the new Nintendo Switch using a lot of the same components as the Switch OLED.
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I don't even care about the framerate stuff, just give me Xenoblade games at something higher than 540p so the outlines don't look all broken and half-missing when upscaled and I'd be happy. Literally just 1080p30 would make me happy.
Concernt
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I'd love to see a source on Nintendo holding the trademark for Switch 4K!Can Drake fit on this board? I don't know about you guys, but I have always assumed Switch 2 form factor would change at least a little, but what if the form factor remains the same? Can the Switch OLED board accommodate a larger SOC? I would assume Drake even on 4NM is larger than the X1 on 16nm FF? Joy Cons are detachable so they could design a new set to be more comfortable in the hands. Nintendo has Switch 4K trademarked, so perhaps that is how they are planning to market this thing, heavily around its improved docked performance. The Switch OLED dock has the ability to output 4K and the standard Switch doesn't. So having your OLED dock work with the new Switch model would be a nice perk for those who upgraded.
Other than that, absolutely, yes, it could fit, physically. It's more a question of the cooling solution, which is why I think it'll still have hugely redesigned internals.
I doubt there will be much change to the outside other than fitting an OLED Model style stand into a system with less internal space.
I also expect them to carry over the lessons they learned designing OLED Model in simplifying the circuitry and daughter boards to keep Drake's internal's compact.
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Orin is 21 billion transistors, not 17.
I’m aware that there are reportings online of it being 17B, but that is old. It has since been update to being 21B transistors.
Second point, it is impossible for Drake to be the size of Erista on the 8nm, unless nvidia goes with a really custom 8N that has a much higher transistor density, it is not at all possible to be that size. The size you should expect at 8N is 160-180mm^2 range, 50% larger than erista
Even with portions of it removed, due to not being relevant to a console, there isn’t a sudden 0 space there.
The size is consistent with all the ampere based GPUs on the 8nm process from nvidia, which has a single GPC at around 51mm^2.
And finally, I do not suggest comparing how it is on one node from one foundry to another node of a different foundry. For example, SRAM scaling is very different from 8 mm and 5 mm. You’re basically comparing apples to oranges at that point.
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snorkellingfish
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Another factor that supports that theory is that they do have games that could've been spread out to H2 2023 if other stuff wasn’t going to be ready, e.g. Metroid Prime, Advance Wars. I can't imagine that they'd have shadow dropped Metroid Prime in such an unceremonious way if they didn't have something good up their sleeves for H2 2023.
There are a bunch of reasons that they might have big releases for H2 2023 that they're waiting to announce - but waiting to show them off on new hardware has to be a possibility.
If their planned [Redacted] announcement is post-E3, that would also fit with their decision to no-show - it's not that they have no games coming for later this year; it's just that it would be premature to announce them pre-[Redacted]-reveal.
Anyway, that's my logic.
The big difference is that Kirby's Return to Dreamland Deluxe is a game that will sell most of its copies during its launch window, when it will have plenty of available stock, to then proceed to keep selling in lower volumes for a while hopefully doubling its launch sales.
The REDACTED is a nextgen console that will sell for the 7ish years after its launch, that is expected to not be widely available for months and that will continue to be advertised for all of its lifecycle. The two things are not really comparable. The REDACTED will also probably sell most of its units in its 3rd or 4th year on the market, looking at the Switch trajectory
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Catch the enthusiasts, you sway the crowd.
Hold the enthusiast, you don’t really guarantee that you have the crowd
Lose the enthusiast, you lose the crowd.
Simple.
Hold the enthusiast, you don’t really guarantee that you have the crowd
Lose the enthusiast, you lose the crowd.
Simple.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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My hope (I dare not call it a prediction) is that they reveal it pre-E3 in its own event so third parties can show off their games for it. Or else we might have an awkward E3 of no games seeming to be coming to Nintendo, or games slapping a "Nintendo" logo on things instead of Nintendo Switch (like the Activision deal).
Dekuman
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I understand downplaying the need to have a good sized marketing campaign because we really want the console now and a shorter announce to release window will fit some of those predictions of an announcement in the summer and launching in the fall.
My take is, if the product is desirable, a lot of the marketing will be done by other people for Nintendo. We already know short of another Wii U level disaster, the first six months, and very likely first year + will be a sold out situation. They can ride that media buzz.
Not saying it won't get giant bill boards, a huge launch party, and maybe another super bowl ad. But Nintendo won't be throwing money away just so they can say they had a big launch. I think they know how to market by this point.
Also, do i think it will be a 3 month window? probably no, but i'm not ruling it out. My expectation, as much as i want a H2 release, is announced later this year launched in Spring 2024.
My take is, if the product is desirable, a lot of the marketing will be done by other people for Nintendo. We already know short of another Wii U level disaster, the first six months, and very likely first year + will be a sold out situation. They can ride that media buzz.
Not saying it won't get giant bill boards, a huge launch party, and maybe another super bowl ad. But Nintendo won't be throwing money away just so they can say they had a big launch. I think they know how to market by this point.
Also, do i think it will be a 3 month window? probably no, but i'm not ruling it out. My expectation, as much as i want a H2 release, is announced later this year launched in Spring 2024.
I've said it several times, but I think that a short marketing cycle for a new generation like the one we're talking about is the worse idea.
Basically, it'll probably be the same switch but more powerful work maybe a gimmick or two. While Sony and Microsoft's audience is used to this kind of iteration and they have the marketing figured out, Nintendo is going to have to convince people* that this new console isn't the same as the old Switch. And even Sony and Microsoft have long marketing cycles anyway.
I think that this product will be casually mentioned during summer, discussed in depth early 2024, and release around April. Mario, which will probably release alongside the console, will be in the September direct if we're lucky.
*That is, not us.
D
Deleted member 887
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See, handwavy. Thanks (and welcome back)
Sure, but we're not talking about SRAM scaling, we're talking about Ampere vs Lovelace, where the SM design didn't change. Ampere on 8nm vs Lovelace on 5nm is reasonable proxy for a density change between a 5nm Drake and an 8nm Orin.
They're obviously not comparable, I was being snarky. Could a next-gen console go from "we have no statements to make on new hardware at this time" to a launch in 3 months? Sure. Would that be a good idea? Probably not - consumers are constantly accusing manufacturers of creating artificial scarcity to drive up product prices and hype, but it almost never actually occurs, and is generally bad. Scalper driven prices drive consuimers from the market place, and is money that isn't in the manufacturers pocket, and doesn't help drive future demand as the product gets in folks hands.
But also, you know, you can't download a console. A shadow drop of Metroid Prime: Remastered immediately gets the game in folks hands, the "oh my god they did it" to "oh my god I'm buying" to "oh my god it's good" cycle can be as short as minutes. That's not going to be true for hardware.
Could Nintendo match their success with a shorter marketing cycle than even the Switch got? Probably! Could they exceed both their short and long term sales numbers with such an approach? Probably not.
Is a new, more careful executive team, coming off a massively successful product (which happened to also cannibalize a second stream of counter cyclical revenue) going to attempt a Hail Mary pass on the launch strategy? Also probably not.
D
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Not with that attitude you can't
KMStwo
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At this point I think we'll see the console sometimes in 2024, I'm not trying to hope for a stealth release.
That said, I still do believe that they could reveal and launch the console rapidly without repercussions, because marketing doesn't stop at the launch period but keeps going on. Sony just relaunched the console spending marketing money to tell people that the console is now actually available!
The marketing push of the launch alone is not something that can predict the fate of a console anyway (just don't call it Switch U).
Dizzle
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Good for you, but bad for the thread. So it goes. People before Posts
Serif
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SiG
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theguy
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maidhhc
Abundance is a social relationship 🌱
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Imagine all the street cred you could get online from us (potentially beautiful) anonymous strangers if you just flushed this one teeny-weeny dream job at the heaven factory down the toilet. It would be so easy.
oj, make us proud in the big house !
Dekuman
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Always enjoy reading your posts. You are always insightful. Come back to celebrate and discuss once [redacted] is announced
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