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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

@Vash_the_Stampede

A78C at 1.5GHz 8 cores, 8 threads vs Ryzen ~4700s 8 cores 16 threads @3.6GHz

Ampere 1536 Cuda cores @ 768MHz 2.36tflops vs RDNA2 (no infinity cache) 1280 shaders @ 1565MHz 4tflops

8GB or 12GB low power ddr5 at upto 102GB/s vs 8GB GDDR6 at 224GB/s + 2GB DDR4

Drake docked ~15watts vs Xbox series S 74watts

power-big.png


I'll use the above chart as an example. Xbox Series S isn't a portable console, it only worries about thermals, not about power consumption, it is designed to give you the best performance without worrying about power consumption and is only limited by the design. Drake is worried about power consumption as a portable console and is limited in thermals by being a fraction of the size. As you can see, xbox series s is designed to operate much higher up the power curve than Drake, it's really that simple, to push performance twice as hard, you need much more than twice the power draw. The PS5 draws over 200w while offering a little over twice the gpu performance of the XBSS and about the same CPU performance. The estimated numbers I'm using is from Nvidia Orin's power tool estimator, they are real numbers for these clocks with 8nm and clocks could improve drastically with TSMC's 4N... And yes DLSS offers about a doubling of GPU performance, which could put the above gpu numbers on par with xbss.
 
Within a total power envelope of 15w?

What would be the breakdown?

3w-5w for the CPU
5w-7w for the GPU
3w-5w for memory, storage, and all other

?
Launch Switch used less than 2 watts for the system, Zelda consumed an average of ~5.3w from the SoC and with screen brightness down, it only drew 7.1w during gameplay.

So under 3 watts for Drake's other components make sense, these are going to be low clocked, low powered, mobile parts after all.

Orin_power_estimations.png

From the work I did here, we can see medium load for the CPU and GPU at ~1.5GHz and 726.75MHz is 11.7w for Orin, Drake should be slightly more efficient with a single cluster CPU, but draw more power to reach 768MHz, a little over 12w for the SoC when docked according to Nvidia's tools on 8nm. Giving us ~15w for my specs that you quoted.
 
I’m not sure why you’re trying to reverse engineer Drake numbers by looking at Steam Deck. Instead of trying to compare Steam Deck to Drake, which are different arches, why not look at Orin? Orin has documented power draw and (indirectly) documented power curves.



On 8nm, that GPU config runs 9.6W and the CPU config runs 4.8W. These are effectively documented by the Orin power curves provided by NVidia. This is assuming the A78AE cores, not in lockstep mode, run the same as the A78C cores.

That gives us a 14.4W power draw, obviously untenable. This is why most folk no longer believe it’s running on 8nm.

ARM suggests a 20% win in TDP at iso performance from the Samsung 8nm to TSMC 7nm, which seems like another hand wavy baseline. That gets you a SOC running at 11.5W.

That’s high, I will admit, but yes, that gets you nicely inside your 15W envelope.

For the record I see other possibilities, including Nintendo going a net clock downgrade for their successor system. But yes, these clocks are possible, based on what we know about Orin, in a reasonable power envelope
That is at high loads, Zelda drew 13 watts from the launch switch when docked, and we know other games on the platform were more demanding, as Zelda had a 3 hour battery life while some games topped out around 2 hours, meaning there are games on the switch that should draw 3 or 4 more watts from the system... Thus making 14watts for the SoC manageable, because TX1 has to have some games where the SoC is drawing up to 12 watts alone.
 
Re: positivity and negativity.

@Vash_the_Stampede isn’t out of line. Bringing in analysis that suggests the trends of the thread are wrong is worthy and important.

We’ve absolutely pushed back against excessive pessimism in this thread. I think all anyone requires is that we be kind to each other and that we establish our prior assumptions
 
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NVN2 only enables DLSS in docked mode, tensor cores shut off in handheld mode, stays disabled when hooked up to a non-4k screen
What's stopping Nintendo from using Super Sampling if you have less than 4K screen though. They can like scale it up to 4k using DLSS then reduce it to let's say 1080p or 1440p for a nicer picture.

Edit: I know SS in DLSS is Super Sampling.
 
That is at high loads, Zelda drew 13 watts from the launch switch when docked, and we know other games on the platform were more demanding, as Zelda had a 3 hour battery life while some games topped out around 2 hours, meaning there are games on the switch that should draw 3 or 4 more watts from the system... Thus making 14watts for the SoC manageable, because TX1 has to have some games where the SoC is drawing up to 12 watts alone.
I take your point but I was operating under a maximum pessimism analysis. I've not seen decent info that isolated the SOC power draw in Switch.
 
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What's stopping Nintendo from using Super Sampling if you have less than 4K screen though. They can like scale it up to 4k using DLSS then reduce it to let's say 1080p or 1440p for a nicer picture.
Nothing is stopping them, this "leak" suggests that isn't their strategy, but I find the leak dubious
 
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How will Nvidia’s Reflex technology work with Drake software?
I don't know if it will. No one has ever adequately explained to me how Reflex works or what hardware features it depends on. Assuming there is a benefit to Reflex or related tech on Drake it is quite likely that NVidia/Nintendo will expose it on the Nintendo SDK.
 
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What's stopping Nintendo from using Super Sampling if you have less than 4K screen though. They can like scale it up to 4k using DLSS then reduce it to let's say 1080p or 1440p for a nicer picture.

Edit: I know SS in DLSS is Super Sampling.
The "leak" is probably complete nonsense, especially when the "leak" said that T239 uses 2 clusters of 4 Cortex-A78(A)E cores, which is incorrect since the Linux kernel said that T239 uses 1 cluster of 8 CPU cores, and the Cortex-A78AE doesn't support 8 CPU cores per cluster, only 4 CPU cores per cluster.
 
I thought these were updated figures after Thraktor’s corrections, but I admittedly did not vet fully.

edit: is this it?
Yeah I thought this was before Thrak’s post, not after.
Is being optimistic a virtue that deserves to be “called out”? Couldn’t a person simply explain things from their perspective alone? What about pessimism? Is being a pessimist A-OK, while an optimist is a bridge too far?
I’ll answer it one by one:


1) no, being optimistic doesn’t inherently mean “call them out”

2) they can, just fine. Especially the new people that never post, though I thought that since the more regulars here post they can understand one another and where they are coming from. Not always meant to be some inherent rudeness but banter I guess is how I take it.

Like is Dakhil made a comment that’s very blunt, I’d know he meant it well but someone else might have took it as though he’s being rude(?) (he’s not btw, he’s very nice)

3) I think we need to delineate pessimism and skepticism. Vash is more on the side of skepticism than pessimism.

Not everyone that is skeptical is actually being pessimistic about it.

He simply presented with what he knew and how he understood the matter, he wasn’t saying Nintendo will bail out and ship a worse product “because Nintendo” he was drawing a conclusion and shared skepticism at some of the things posted because it didn’t make sense to him.

He’s even been asking to understand.


It’s those posters, one who is banned and is a NintendoFan, are those that made it difficult to even converse with. Another user with a laughing dog avi was just pessimistic and never cooperated or contributed. Never asked and was authoritarian and at times rude.

Vash isn’t being that though.

4) in my opinion an Optimist and a pessimist are fine if said optimist and pessimist are those that have an open mind.

An optimist who is blinded by light and refuses to look away or a pessimist who is denser than a black hole or immovable like Gonzales (iykyk) aren’t really those people like conversing with at all.


Nor do they make for a fruitful discussion.






Like if people want my pessimistic and optimistic takes, I see the GPU getting less of a share in portable mode, but the CPU getting a higher share in allocated power.


Basically, if they can do 3.5-4W for the CPU it would be golden.

If they can do 3.5-4.5W for the GPU that would be fine…

In contrast to the switch that is like 1.83W on the OG for the CPU and like 4-6W for just the GPU if I’m not mistaken.


I’m more of the conservative portable GPU but more ambitious CPU.


And a denser Battery of course. Offsets a lot of the issues people bring up. Not even by a whole lot. Just go from 4310 to 5000. Can probably save a few mm of space too….. anyway….
 
I always thought Nintendo would come with 1024 cuda and nothing more (basically that orin NX with 6 cpu cores (or even 4) and 8GB of ram).

But the Nvidia hack brought a solid 'picture' of what they could have been cooking for us. I have to say I was really surprised with the machine. I'm always very careful with what I expect from Nintendo (talking about positive scenarios), because I found it to be the best 'strategy' to not get disappointed; whatever they end up doing can't hurt me because of the low bar I had already set lol

If it was just about rumors on internet forums I wouldn't give any attention, but it was a legit hack, and a big one...

Of course I'm not saying I'm 100% sure about what Nintendo's gonna do, but at least I felt confident to raise my 'expectation bar'.

For me, now it's all about the chosen node and when. Such amazing machine deserves a better node than samsung's 8nm... That'll be a bit disappointing for me, but I'm already expecting for it because... Well, I have already explained why lol (but overall it would still be better than what I was expecting, so... It's a win anyway)

But I still feel 2024 is the 'when', so if I'm right, I'll feel more confident about the node.
 
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I love reading this thread, and I have a question for you people who know better: taking into consideration that some current gen aim for native 4K, would it be possible for Drake to run those games in a similar ish complexity (effects, polygons etc) but at a much lower resolution (720p, still acceptable)? Or are there other bottlenecks to take into consideration that really make the gap wider between the two platforms? I know that DLSS is supposed to make games a bit nicer and all of that, but Im talking about the raw performance of Drake compared to current gen. For example, I think that DOOM run at 1080p in PS4, and between 540p and 720p in Switch. How smaller would be the gap between Drake and PS5 compared to Switch and PS4?
Thank you :)
 
@Vash_the_Stampede did nothing wrong. Questioning things is a vital part of learning, and gives us the opportunity to correct our thinking if needed. It's why I went through all the trouble of making that document about 8nm power estimations for Orin. We needed to know what was going on with this architecture at different clocks for this process node as the worst case, not that my specs are the worst case BTW, but what is possible on 8nm. It's just important to note that we don't actually have high load numbers for TX1 on cpu and gpu together, so when doing that with Drake and coming up with higher numbers, context and awareness that it's not apples to apples here that is important.
 
I didn’t realize this existed!




So it’s a third score! I’d like to update my previous thing about ORIN.

The more we get the more of an idea we can get too.

NV numbers: 754ST/7773MT
Skyjuice: 784ST/7891MT
Video: 763ST/7193MT

All at 2.2GHz


Average around 349 at 1GHz (rounded up)



MT= 82.4% whatever the Single core multiplied score.
….so not much difference lol


@ 1.6GHz = 559ST/ 3,224MT(7C) (>3x the PS4)

@ 1.75GHz = 611ST/ 3,525MT(7C) (>3x the XB1)

@ 2.13GHz = 744ST/ 4,296MT(7C) (>3x the Pro)

@ 2.3GHz = 803ST/ 4,610MT(7C) (>3x the XB1X)

(Rounded up)




See what happens when you get more data?


Seeing more data about the single core performance, it seems like NVidia’s implementation is actually pretty good for this.

Here’s the theoretical score with 8 core as if on Geekbench:



@ 1.6GHz = 559ST/ 3,689MT

@ 1.75GHz = 611ST/ 4,032MT

@ 2.13GHz = 744ST/ 4910MT

@ 2.3GHz = 803ST/ 5,299MT

(Rounded up)


Here’s if @ 3GHz and if it does scale linearly, I’ve seen some benchmarks of A78 scale to close to 1000 so it’s probably fine

Anyway…. assuming it went well, 1047ST, 6,909MT.

Pretty close in theory to the M1, which is only 4 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores, when this is needs 8 performance cores. And this is just assuming all is done well.

But in a more fair comparison of 8 performance cores (and 2 efficient cores) it falls way behind. But this is good enough for Nintendo so I don’t care.


It also seems to just track on the multi and the single threaded part. A78 was always worse but that’s ok in this case. Again… it’s apple.

Note: this is all in good fun and meant for speculative purposes. This in no way is meant to be taken as fact as for what will actually happen. And I don’t think I need to mention for the 4th or 5th time about Geekbench 5.


For a final one,


7 A78 @ 1.02GHz MT- 2,055 (rounded down)
3 A57 @ 1.02GHz MT- 362 (rounded up)

That’s an 5.6x increase.

1.02 A78 is 356ST (rounded up)

1.02 A57 is 142ST (Rounded up)

So it’s a 2.51x ST increase.




See the bolded words above…. one more time.
 
I love reading this thread, and I have a question for you people who know better: taking into consideration that some current gen aim for native 4K, would it be possible for Drake to run those games in a similar ish complexity (effects, polygons etc) but at a much lower resolution (720p, still acceptable)? Or are there other bottlenecks to take into consideration that really make the gap wider between the two platforms? I know that DLSS is supposed to make games a bit nicer and all of that, but Im talking about the raw performance of Drake compared to current gen. For example, I think that DOOM run at 1080p in PS4, and between 540p and 720p in Switch. How smaller would be the gap between Drake and PS5 compared to Switch and PS4?
Thank you :)
In docked mode it is definitely possible, although Ultra Performance mode doesn't look all that great. They should still allow for it to get that low if needed, but they should also allow dynamic resolution down to 720p if anything gets too intense in game.
 
In docked mode it is definitely possible, although Ultra Performance mode doesn't look all that great. They should still allow for it to get that low if needed, but they should also allow dynamic resolution down to 720p if anything gets too intense in game.
Ultra performance doesn’t look as good as native 4k or 1440p, but it still looks way better than running a raw 720p or 540p image on a 4k display. In general I’d say Ultra Performance looks good, just not amazing.
 
While it’s not an impossibility, it would be a strange decision to go with 12sm on that process indeed.
Nintendo and NVidia putting all this work into a cutting edge SoC and then choosing to manufacture on Samsung 8nm feels a bit like paying someone to build beautiful custom furniture out of cardboard.
 
Just found out that samsung has tipped their toes in the 7nm process node in the past (eg: Exynos 9825).
And that it's manufacturing cost is slightly higher than TSMC's 7nm (I'm not sure if this could be an issue due to economy of scale).

img_5cd106e96a81a.jpg.webp

Thing is, the same can be said about the difference in cost between TSMC's 5nm and Samsung's 5nm nodes:

img_5cd106eaac793.jpg.webp


Again, I don't know if for NVIDIA this difference that to my eyes is seemingly small is still relevant but, considering all the talks we had ITT so far about power consumption under 8nm and how it would be hard for NVIDIA to migrate from samsung's manufacturing scheme to TSCM's, 5nm under samsung seems like the best approach in terms of ROI for both NVIDIA and nintendo.

Even more so considering samsung could have more availability on their fabs for 8 (recent NVIDIA cards) and 5nm (recent phones) at the moment than 7nm. And I don't think nintendo would want to be put on hold because of NVIDIA failing to meet demand quotas.
 
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I want to gauge the opinion of how others feel, so I'll ask this:

would your prefer the successor to the Switch to be largely the same as the current Switch, but with improvements to the internal components and maybe slightly redesigned joycon with some more refined and new features, or would you prefer something radically new, introducing concepts never explored by other game consoles before?

Every console since the original DS seemed to have some kind of "gimmick" that really set Nintendo's consoles apart from the others. I personally can't see myself getting too excited about a "Switch 2" if all it brings to the table is prettier graphics and better framerates. I want something more exciting and creative too, but feel Nintendo has kinda backed themselves into a corner now and are kinda forced to continue with the Switch concept from here on out... but what do you all think?
 
I want to gauge the opinion of how others feel, so I'll ask this:

would your prefer the successor to the Switch to be largely the same as the current Switch, but with improvements to the internal components and maybe slightly redesigned joycon with some more refined and new features, or would you prefer something radically new, introducing concepts never explored by other game consoles before?

Every console since the original DS seemed to have some kind of "gimmick" that really set Nintendo's consoles apart from the others. I personally can't see myself getting too excited about a "Switch 2" if all it brings to the table is prettier graphics and better framerates. I want something more exciting and creative too, but feel Nintendo has kinda backed themselves into a corner now and are kinda forced to continue with the Switch concept from here on out... but what do you all think?
I think above all, I want a Nintendo console that outperforms a PS4 Pro. I'm dying to live in a world where we don't have flickering aliasing everywhere, and the only limit to a game isn't the juice in the box but the creativity in the minds of the genius game makers at Nintendo.

As far as new gimmicks? Personally, I'd just like to see options. I want PRO JOY CON. Big ol ergonomic joycons that are meant only for being used together and no mind paid to being turned on the side and used solo. Gimme a beefy d-pad. I know there are 3rd party making some that fit this bill but I'd like to see Nintendo really throw their weight of R&D and official support behind it. Just really making the control experience top notch. Just a focus on maximizing the gaming experience and less on creating something completely novel. I think the next blue ocean gimmick (might be red by the time they get there) for Nintendo will be VR and/or AR. I do believe they are working on that right now, a VR focused Switch to my mind is a perfect fit. A headset with a dock that turns it into a home TV console. Pick it up and put it on and whatever game you were playing on the TV you are now inside. That device perhaps could line up with much more focused joycons that are meant to be in each hand and more ergonomic.
 
would your prefer the successor to the Switch to be largely the same as the current Switch, but with improvements to the internal components and maybe slightly redesigned joycon with some more refined and new features, or would you prefer something radically new, introducing concepts never explored by other game consoles before?
The current Switch has explored a lot of concepts with its form factor including Labo, VR, AR, wearable fitness games, motion controls, etc. The setup enables tabletop, tate mode, and touchscreen gameplay besides docked mode.

Switch 2, sharing the same form factor, will continue this. The power can enable better VR and AR, OS features like an assistant or better integrated online services, maybe wireless streaming to a display. They can plug more features into the joy-con like a camera, IR pointer and better haptics.

They can market all these features on the box, but I don't think there will be another "main idea" feature / gimmick like "3D" "gamepad with a screen" etc. And I don't think they need one. The Switch's concept, with it's detachable controllers and tablet screen, is solid. They can add to it, replace every component Ship of Theseus style, but its flexibility is its main asset. Someone can play on the Switch ignoring or indulging in all of the non-traditional gaming ideas, and it's perfectly valid.
 
A headset with a dock that turns it into a home TV console. Pick it up and put it on and whatever game you were playing on the TV you are now inside.
Yeah this is something I have been thinking about as well! The back of the switch's body can feature several cameras to allow for better tracking while in VR mode (and an internal gyroscope and additional hardware for head tracking). Hell, maybe the cameras can even be utilized while in dock mode with the new switch having a new dock design to make the cameras visible and pointed towards the player to bring back motion controls that constantly don't require a button press to reset the position every couple of minutes, thanks to the cameras functioning similar to how the IR sensor on the wii worked!
 
The current Switch has explored a lot of concepts with its form factor including Labo, VR, AR, wearable fitness games, motion controls, etc. The setup enables tabletop, tate mode, and touchscreen gameplay besides docked mode.

Switch 2, sharing the same form factor, will continue this. The power can enable better VR and AR, OS features like an assistant or better integrated online services, maybe wireless streaming to a display. They can plug more features into the joy-con like a camera, IR pointer and better haptics.

They can market all these features on the box, but I don't think there will be another "main idea" feature / gimmick like "3D" "gamepad with a screen" etc. And I don't think they need one. The Switch's concept, with it's detachable controllers and tablet screen, is solid. They can add to it, replace every component Ship of Theseus style, but its flexibility is its main asset. Someone can play on the Switch ignoring or indulging in all of the non-traditional gaming ideas, and it's perfectly valid.
Yeah, I was really hoping that the new switch could contain design features that let them double down on these types of experiences.
LABO and Ring Fit were some of the coolest uses of the hardware from first party developers, not to mention the other neat 3rd party games that made use of the hardware in similar ways such as Bakuturi Hunters, Tabe-o-ja, and Cap kakumei Bottleman! I really hope the new hardware can allow for even more experiences like this
 
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I want to gauge the opinion of how others feel, so I'll ask this:

would your prefer the successor to the Switch to be largely the same as the current Switch, but with improvements to the internal components and maybe slightly redesigned joycon with some more refined and new features, or would you prefer something radically new, introducing concepts never explored by other game consoles before?

Every console since the original DS seemed to have some kind of "gimmick" that really set Nintendo's consoles apart from the others. I personally can't see myself getting too excited about a "Switch 2" if all it brings to the table is prettier graphics and better framerates. I want something more exciting and creative too, but feel Nintendo has kinda backed themselves into a corner now and are kinda forced to continue with the Switch concept from here on out... but what do you all think?
I'm kinda fine either way, but I've kinda liked the idea that, with minor Joycon tweaks and Miracast hardware in a new dock, this new hardware could bring ALL of Nintendo's hardware design ideas (minus stereoscopic 3D display) under a single piece of hardware... a "greatest hits", if you will, the only device they will have ever made that could play every retro game roughly as it was designed to be originally played. That'd be something.
 
Again, I don't know if for NVIDIA this difference that to my eyes is seemingly small is still relevant but, considering all the talks we had ITT so far about power consumption under 8nm and how it would be hard for NVIDIA to migrate from samsung's manufacturing scheme to TSCM's, 5nm under samsung seems like the best approach in terms of ROI for both NVIDIA and nintendo.

Even more so considering samsung could have more availability on their fabs for 8 (recent NVIDIA cards) and 5nm (recent phones) at the moment than 7nm. And I don't think nintendo would want to be put on hold because of NVIDIA failing to meet demand quotas.
Considering Nintendo and Nvidia probably need to redesign Drake with EUV lithography in mind if Nintendo and Nvidia decide to not use Samsung's 8N process node since Samsung's 8N process node use DUV lithography, and EUV lithography is used from TSMC's N6 process node and onwards (TSMC wants to shift customers from TSMC's N7 process node, which uses DUV lithography, to TSMC's N6 process node), and Samsung's 7LPP process node and onwards, I imagine the cost difference between TSMC's N6 process node vs Samsung's 5 nm** process node is probably fairly minimal, especially when taking the costs of having to redesigning the SoC with EUV lithography in mind into account.

And Nvidia usually secures capacity for a process node with the intention of fabricating multiple products from that process node. And as far as I know, the Tegra X1 so far is currently the only exception to that. (I think someone mentioned Nvidia securing capacity for Samsung's 5 nm** process node. But considering I haven't heard any rumours about Nvidia securing capacity for Samsung's 5 nm** process node nor did I hear any reliable rumours about any of Nvidia products planned to be fabricated using Samsung's 5 nm** process node, I can't really believe that Nvidia secured capacity for Samsung's 5 nm** process node.)

** → a marketing nomenclature used by all foundry companies
 
I'm kinda fine either way, but I've kinda liked the idea that, with minor Joycon tweaks and Miracast hardware in a new dock, this new hardware could bring ALL of Nintendo's hardware design ideas (minus stereoscopic 3D display) under a single piece of hardware... a "greatest hits", if you will, the only device they will have ever made that could play every retro game roughly as it was designed to be originally played. That'd be something.
To be fair, even 3d could be a thing if they added support on their rendering api for it through 3d glasses using old, polarized lenses.
But it's very unlikely considering most people don't even own 3d glasses anymore.

The "gimmick" I wish the switch brought back the most is a camera (both main and frontal). Back in 3ds and vita days 0.3MP was the norm (for both multiple variations of said consoles, not the portable market in general) but now I feel like they could totally go for 5MP and even if the lenses and sensor aren't that great, for a console that's only utilizing it for a gimmick, I feel like that wouldn't be so much of an issue (especially considering the age of image processing through a.i we are living in).

A camera on switch would be amazing for AR games and if they went balls to the wall with the device*, it would have amazing livestreaming capabilities.
*by allowing the OS to run small apps in the background
 
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I want to gauge the opinion of how others feel, so I'll ask this:

would your prefer the successor to the Switch to be largely the same as the current Switch, but with improvements to the internal components and maybe slightly redesigned joycon with some more refined and new features, or would you prefer something radically new, introducing concepts never explored by other game consoles before?

Every console since the original DS seemed to have some kind of "gimmick" that really set Nintendo's consoles apart from the others. I personally can't see myself getting too excited about a "Switch 2" if all it brings to the table is prettier graphics and better framerates. I want something more exciting and creative too, but feel Nintendo has kinda backed themselves into a corner now and are kinda forced to continue with the Switch concept from here on out... but what do you all think?
Better hardware, same concept.

Doing a new gimmick would certainly result in failure.
 
I want to gauge the opinion of how others feel, so I'll ask this:

would your prefer the successor to the Switch to be largely the same as the current Switch, but with improvements to the internal components and maybe slightly redesigned joycon with some more refined and new features, or would you prefer something radically new, introducing concepts never explored by other game consoles before?

Every console since the original DS seemed to have some kind of "gimmick" that really set Nintendo's consoles apart from the others. I personally can't see myself getting too excited about a "Switch 2" if all it brings to the table is prettier graphics and better framerates. I want something more exciting and creative too, but feel Nintendo has kinda backed themselves into a corner now and are kinda forced to continue with the Switch concept from here on out... but what do you all think?
I'm not sure if a dramatic twist is viable, but the biggest thing I want is adjustable button modules

pop off the face buttons and put on gamecube ones, pop off the left d-buttons and put on a d-pad, maybe even pop off the stick and put on a circle pad
 
Better hardware, same concept.

Doing a new gimmick would certainly result in failure.
Well, it either bombs hard or becomes a great success. I remember everyone claiming the switch was doomed and was going to be the death of Nintendo, yet here we are.

I appreciate when companies take risks and don't just play everything so safe.
 
I personally can't see myself getting too excited about a "Switch 2" if all it brings to the table is prettier graphics and better framerates. I want something more exciting and creative too
I think you're making a sort of implicit assumption there that isn't true. A Switch 2 can (and, in my opinion, almost certainly will) bring more to the table than prettier graphics and better frame rates while still being a direct successor to the Switch. This thing isn't just going to be a Switch with a brain transplant; there's going to be more to it. We just know about the new brain, so that's mostly what we're talking about here.

I think a camera and mic array make a lot of sense as an addition that would enable new types of interactivity with games (and returning types from the DS/3DS).
 
I'm not sure if a dramatic twist is viable, but the biggest thing I want is adjustable button modules

pop off the face buttons and put on gamecube ones, pop off the left d-buttons and put on a d-pad, maybe even pop off the stick and put on a circle pad
ah yes! One of the 3DS prototypes actually had this feature!

ia_3ds_volume2_content08.jpg

Would be neat to see that revisited! Could certainly help with making repairs more accessible if people are suffering from stick drift.
 
I think you're making a sort of implicit assumption there that isn't true. A Switch 2 can (and, in my opinion, almost certainly will) bring more to the table than prettier graphics and better frame rates while still being a direct successor to the Switch. This thing isn't just going to be a Switch with a brain transplant; there's going to be more to it. We just know about the new brain, so that's mostly what we're talking about here.

I think a camera and mic array make a lot of sense as an addition that would enable new types of interactivity with games (and returning types from the DS/3DS).
I am making an assumption, for the sake of discussion lol.
I just wanted to see where the general opinion lies with Nintendo fans. Do people agree with me in wanting Nintendo to continue their trend of making interesting, sometimes questionable, hardware gimmicks or are people ready for Nintendo to take the route that Microsoft and Sony take by just improving the overall hardware and not really thinking outside the box in any creative way (not to discredit the amount of work it takes to improve these hardware specs of course!) I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, but am just curious as to how people feel on the subject!
 
Well, it either bombs hard or becomes a great success. I remember everyone claiming the switch was doomed and was going to be the death of Nintendo, yet here we are.

I appreciate when companies take risks and don't just play everything so safe.
In retros0ect the switch made massive sense. Its success wasnt random

Now, if nintendo tries to come up with the next wii u gamepad, its failure will also make just as much sense.
 
Quoted by: SiG
1
there is often a disconnect between that which is good and that which is marketable

the wii u was the former while the switch is, for the most part, both
 
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