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StarTopic Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST3| Speculate Chronicles 3

WHEN


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Finished my Direct wishlist, wrong guesses only

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Im playing Hotel Dusk (got it for like 20$) and its a fantastic looking game (playing on 3ds). I want the sequel but its wayyy more expensive. Might get a german version (cheaper) and it has english text.
 
It's debatable and I agree that overall series sales numbers aren't a great metric. Tales isn't as big as it used to be, and Fire Emblem has blown up in the last few games, so I'd say it's now bigger than that. Persona is tougher to call, since while P5 + P5R outsold Three Houses, that was two versions. But, Persona popularity is at an all-time high, and is about to have more games released across more platforms, which is going to boost things, too. I think it depends on how much the audience is able to expand with the newest game entries - not that we'll know for a while since Persona 6 is probably still years out. It also depends what systems it releases on - if P6 comes out on Switch and PC as well (maybe even just PC) that'll make a massive difference, whereas Fire Emblem will only be on Switch.
Yeah, I think Persona 6 vs FE: Toothpaste will be a better comparison than FE3H vs vanilla P5 + an expanded version of the same game 3 years later on the same console + nearly 3 year late ports of an expanded version of a 6 year old game imo. Not to mention both vanilla P5 and Royal have gotten lots of deep discounts whereas 3H's discounts are far less frequent and far less cheap.
 
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Yeah, I think Persona 6 vs FE: Toothpaste will be a better comparison than FE3H vs vanilla P5 + an expanded version of the same game 3 years later on the same console + nearly 3 year late ports of an expanded version of a 6 year old game imo. Not to mention both vanilla P5 and Royal have gotten lots of deep discounts whereas 3H's discounts are far less often and far less cheap.
I'm going to be really disappointed if the new FE isn't called FE: Toothpaste
 
Fire Emblem is definitely not smaller than Persona and especially not freaking Tales of lol

imo comparing the total sales of entire series' is a pretty bad metric for determining modern popularity, especially in the case of stuff like Tales and everything under the SMT umbrella which both have like, 3000 games each.

I don't wanna be THAT person but Tales of has 17 mainline titles and Fire Emblem has 12 mainline titles, 15 if you count Remakes.


I don't see much of a difference there. Haha

(I won't argue on which series is currently more popular, I have no idea, I like both. I'd give the edge to FE though simply because Nintendo)
 
I don't wanna be THAT person but Tales of has 17 mainline titles and Fire Emblem has 12 mainline titles, 15 if you count Remakes.


I don't see much of a difference there. Haha

(I won't argue on which series is currently more popular, I have no idea, I like both. I'd give the edge to FE though simply because Nintendo)
Fire Emblem is definitely more popular than Tales nowadays. I haven't seen much discussion of Arise
 
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I don't wanna be THAT person but Tales of has 17 mainline titles and Fire Emblem has 12 mainline titles, 15 if you count Remakes.


I don't see much of a difference there. Haha

(I won't argue on which series is currently more popular, I have no idea, I like both. I'd give the edge to FE though simply because Nintendo)
Well, I guess the difference then is that Tales has consistantly sold pretty decently while FE's popularity is a lot bigger but also a lot more recent.
 
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I would personally say that Japanese RPG franchises can be broken down as follows (this is based on prestige/sales/critical reception/influence and impact):

S tier: Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter
A tier: Kingdom Hearts, Dark Souls, Persona
B tier: Fire Emblem, Tales, Nier
C tier: Xenoblade, SMT, Yakuza
D tier: Disgaea, Atelier, Ys, The Legend of Heroes
 
This is among Rare's greatest music pieces, and I dare even say Star Fox Adventures has the best soundtrack out of all Star Fox games.

It just, makes me feel so calm and at peace. This game makes me feel at peace.
Getting teary eyed just listening to this track

This, along with the Shopkeeper's muttering of "No, I'm moving to Cape Claw" sends me back to being 11 years old. Goddamn.
 
I would personally say that Japanese RPG franchises can be broken down as follows (this is based on prestige/sales/critical reception/influence and impact):

S tier: Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter
A tier: Kingdom Hearts, Dark Souls, Persona
B tier: Fire Emblem, Tales, Nier
C tier: Xenoblade, SMT, Yakuza
D tier: Disgaea, Atelier, Ys, The Legend of Heroes

Persona is way too high based on your criteria or sales, prestige, and critical reception. I know Persona 5 fans really like Persona 5, but the series overall hasn't had that much influence on the genre at large and was still fairly niche until Persona 5.
 
Persona is way too high based on your criteria or sales, prestige, and critical reception. I know Persona 5 fans really like Persona 5, but the series overall hasn't had that much influence on the genre at large and was still fairly niche until Persona 5.
Persona 4 is a 2 million seller (in addition to 5 being a 5 million seller), Persona 4 and 5 (and both re-releases) have 90 or higher Metascores, and most importantly, Persona has had a massive impact on JRPGs, many of which have since tried to incorporate everything from its calendar and social systems to just how the battle screens are laid out.

Persona 5 may have been the "FF7 moment" of the series (I.e., where its mainstream footprint finally caught up with its critical and industry prestige), but Persona has been slowly putting in the work since Persona 3, and 4 and 5 both selling as well as they did, and scoring as well as they did, and influencing general game design as much as they did, is a good testament to the profile of the IP.

If you need any more proof of the general regard the series is held in, consider that Microsoft and Nintendo chose to make the announcement of 6/14/16 year old games coming to their respective systems the penultimate and last announcements of their "E3 season" shows this year respectively, ahead of many other high profile announcements you could make a case for getting the show closer spot.

They know the general prestige the series commands.
 
If we get GC HD Zelda ports please let them be in 60 fps. Super hard to go back after playing Skyward Sword at 60 fps. No reason why they couldn’t get the prior two 3D Zelda to hit 60 fps as well.
 
As someone who played halo 1,2,3,4 Reach, ODST and part of 5 they all feel the same to me.

So its bizarre to go into the web and see halo fans screeching about the vastly differences of halo 3 and 4 lmao
I think that feeling is true of any franchise you're only casually interested in compared to people who've invested a lot more time and passion into. In a perfect world all the mainline games in a franchise SHOULD feel fairly similar on the surface so that a player can jump in a decade later and be able to reacquaint themselves before learning about what makes this entry specific.

Just using an example franchise, look at Mario Kart. The core gameplay of driving around tracks, getting items, drifting to get speed boosts has remaining consistent from SMK on the SNES to MK8D on the Switch. However the slight change in physics between games, the different item sets, the introduction of more complicated character stats, the introduction of alternate vehicle options or the ability to customize your vehicle, the introduction of more vehicles besides karts, the introduction of underwater, gliding, and anti-gravity make each of the games distinct from each other even if the core loop is still the same. However despite all of that MK hasn't been perfect, and people rightfully bitched about how bad the battle mode was in MK8, so much so that Nintendo made it a big part of the Deluxe version, fixing it and making it arguably the most robust battle mode in the series.

Halo has that in the form of changes in physics, the addition of armor abilities, the sprint button, the ability to dual wield weapons, the introduction of new enemy types like the brutes and protheans along with their unique weaponry, the introduction of every weapon being able to scope, the ability to hijack vehicles, the ability to order a squad around, and the grapple hook all radically change up how the campaign and multiplayer matches play and are designed. Halo 5's big bone head moment was cutting local campaign split screen, and it was a feature they promised for Infinite and then cut.

Imagine a world where we didn't get MK8D and got Mario Kart Switch instead, and leading up to launch Nintendo was like "we heard you on the battle mode, we will make sure a robust battle mode is a part of Mario Kart going forward again", and then at launch "battle mode wasn't ready and will be added in later" and then a year later Nintendo said "battle mode has been cut", people would rightfully be pretty pissed. That's what's happening with Halo Infinite.
 
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If we get GC HD Zelda ports please let them be in 60 fps. Super hard to go back after playing Skyward Sword at 60 fps. No reason why they couldn’t get the prior two 3D Zelda to hit 60 fps as well.
If they do this, I also hope they will release them with a brand new Four Swords adventure on NSO.
 
This is among Rare's greatest music pieces, and I dare even say Star Fox Adventures has the best soundtrack out of all Star Fox games.

It just, makes me feel so calm and at peace. This game makes me feel at peace.
Getting teary eyed just listening to this track

Still my favorite Star Fox game.

🏃💨
 
Persona 4 is a 2 million seller (in addition to 5 being a 5 million seller), Persona 4 and 5 (and both re-releases) have 90 or higher Metascores, and most importantly, Persona has had a massive impact on JRPGs, many of which have since tried to incorporate everything from its calendar and social systems to just how the battle screens are laid out.

Persona 5 may have been the "FF7 moment" of the series (I.e., where its mainstream footprint finally caught up with its critical and industry prestige), but Persona has been slowly putting in the work since Persona 3, and 4 and 5 both selling as well as they did, and scoring as well as they did, and influencing general game design as much as they did, is a good testament to the profile of the IP.

If you need any more proof of the general regard the series is held in, consider that Microsoft and Nintendo chose to make the announcement of 6/14/16 year old games coming to their respective systems the penultimate and last announcements of their "E3 season" shows this year respectively, ahead of many other high profile announcements you could make a case for getting the show closer spot.

They know the general prestige the series commands.

Persona 4 at 2 million is about the same as the sales of some Tales games and Xenoblade 2. Yet you have those ranked lower than Persona. I still consider Xenoblade and the Tales series relatively niche, so yes, the Persona series was niche up until Persona 5. The Fire Emblem series has long been a prestiges franchise in Japan, has many critically acclaimed games, is currently the most popular franchise of the tactical RPG genre, and it's Nintendo's most successful mobile title. We can argue about how influential and prestiges each series is but do I think the Persona franchise is and has been more important than the Fire Emblem series, no, I don't think you can make that argument. I certainly wouldn't rank it among Kingdom Hearts and Dark Souls. Not even close.
 
Persona 4 at 2 million is about the same as the sales of some Tales games and Xenoblade 2. Yet you have those ranked lower than Persona. I still consider Xenoblade and the Tales series relatively niche, so yes, the Persona series was niche up until Persona 5. The Fire Emblem series has long been a prestiges franchise in Japan, has many critically acclaimed games, is currently the most popular franchise of the tactical RPG genre, and it's Nintendo's most successful mobile title. We can argue about how influential and prestiges each series is but do I think the Persona franchise is and has been more important than the Fire Emblem series, no, I don't think you can make that argument. I certainly wouldn't rank it among Kingdom Hearts and Dark Souls. Not even close.
Again, we have multiple other franchises, including Fire Emblem itself, taking cues from Persona in response to Persona and its success.

Prior to Persona 5, I would have put Persona in the B category, since on the sales front, you are correct, it would have not been pulling its weight to a sufficient degree that a high placement would not have sat right with me, no matter how much I like the games. But as of right now, as I have already mentioned, based on a combination of factors, Persona belonging in that tier feels absolutely indisputable to me. The sales are there (I am curious why you isolated the sales number figure for P4 I mentioned, when it was a part of a broader argument I was making), the critical reception is there, the general prestige is there, and the influence on other games is there. I have pointed out reasons and breakdowns for why Persona deserves to be in that tier for every category that I considered in this ranking, and all my reasoning is using established empirical facts (the sales, the critical reception, the influence on other games, or the prestige are all things that cannot be denied). You don't have to like the fact that the series is that big, but ultimately that is besides the point.

I hate Kingdom Hearts and love Yakuza, I'm not going to let that get in the way of an objective assessment of how these IPs should be ranked.
 
I would personally say that Japanese RPG franchises can be broken down as follows (this is based on prestige/sales/critical reception/influence and impact):

S tier: Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter
A tier: Kingdom Hearts, Dark Souls, Persona
B tier: Fire Emblem, Tales, Nier
C tier: Xenoblade, SMT, Yakuza
D tier: Disgaea, Atelier, Ys, The Legend of Heroes
Think Yakuza should be B tier, Dark Souls in S tier, and Pokemon in Pokemon tier
 
Think Yakuza should be B tier, Dark Souls in S tier, and Pokemon in Pokemon tier
Honestly, Pokemon is such a sales monster that yeah, I think it belongs in a tier all of its own. Plus it at least popularized an entire genre that it dominates to this day more than two decades later, and obviously is a system seller unto itself. However, its general critical reception at least brings it down enough that I felt it was fine to put it alongside FF and DQ and MH. But at that point, we're really splitting hairs lol.

Yakuza, I love Yakuza, and I can see a case for it being in a higher tier, but we're ultimately talking about an IP without a single (reported) million seller, no game above an 85 in MC/OC, and little to no influence on the rest of the industry. They're amazing games, but unfortunately, if I am looking at them in the landscape of the broader industry, I think they are on the lower end of the totem pole.
 
How many games do you need to be a Higher Tier cause Nier Automata has gone far above anyone expected.

One highly successful game is more then enough to say. Yeah it’s pretty much a big deal.
 
How many games do you need to be a Higher Tier cause Nier Automata has gone far above anyone expected.

One highly successful game is more then enough to say. Yeah it’s pretty much a big deal.
Yeah, Nier is the one I wavered on the most, I think there is a good case to be made for it to be higher than I put it. I settled on putting it where I did because so far, its success is isolated to one game across all fronts; ordinarily Replicant being unable to match Automata's sales success or critical reception would have caused me to write off Automata as a one off, however at the same time, Replicant is a remake/re-release of an older game, so I am not going to use it to assess the series' broader standing.

Ultimately it comes down to how the next new Nier game performs, I think.
 
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This is among Rare's greatest music pieces, and I dare even say Star Fox Adventures has the best soundtrack out of all Star Fox games.

It just, makes me feel so calm and at peace. This game makes me feel at peace.
Getting teary eyed just listening to this track

I knew exactly what the song was before I even read the title, FANTASTIC music!!!
 
Honestly, Pokemon is such a sales monster that yeah, I think it belongs in a tier all of its own. Plus it at least popularized an entire genre that it dominates to this day more than two decades later, and obviously is a system seller unto itself. However, its general critical reception at least brings it down enough that I felt it was fine to put it alongside FF and DQ and MH. But at that point, we're really splitting hairs lol.

Yakuza, I love Yakuza, and I can see a case for it being in a higher tier, but we're ultimately talking about an IP without a single (reported) million seller, no game above an 85 in MC/OC, and little to no influence on the rest of the industry. They're amazing games, but unfortunately, if I am looking at them in the landscape of the broader industry, I think they are on the lower end of the totem pole.
Fair enough. Could have sworn Like a Dragon hit a million, but I guess not.
 
Fair enough. Could have sworn Like a Dragon hit a million, but I guess not.
Informally, it is generally understood and accepted that it probably did, but there's no real surety here (plus even if it did, it's still just the one game that did, in general I would need it to be reflected across at least a few games before I take it as proof of the series' popularity, rather than just the popularity for that one specific game).
 
I really hope the next Star Fox blows everyone away so we can have less trollish comments like this on boards.

First you're gonna have to, you know, actually make a good Star Fox game for the sole purpose of making a good Star Fox game, as opposed to just being a vehicle for whatever weird controller/technical gimmick Shigster pulls out of his hat
 
Just build on Assault, that was the best blueprint for how the series should have evolved.

So of course they proceeded to ignore it and do fuck all with it
 
Star Fox Zero was good actually, we just weren't smart enough for it

they should've made it significantly harder. if the game actually demanded you use the controls properly I think they would have been better received
 
Yakuza, I love Yakuza, and I can see a case for it being in a higher tier, but we're ultimately talking about an IP without a single (reported) million seller, no game above an 85 in MC/OC, and little to no influence on the rest of the industry.
Doesn’t really change your point, but Like a Dragon is an 86 on OC. Not really counting the MC scores since they’re sporadic across platforms, but it also holds an 89 on Xbone.

It’s definitely a solid C tier in the aforementioned tier list though.
 
First you're gonna have to, you know, actually make a good Star Fox game for the sole purpose of making a good Star Fox game, as opposed to just being a vehicle for whatever weird controller/technical gimmick Shigster pulls out of his hat
Yeah hopefully Nintendo has learned what not to do. It'd just be nice to see the games talked about without childish derision towards those who genuinely enjoy them.
 
Doesn’t really change your point, but Like a Dragon is an 86 on OC. Not really counting the MC scores since they’re sporadic across platforms, but it also holds an 89 on Xbone.

It’s definitely a solid C tier in the aforementioned tier list though.
Oh, I should have checked before I said it! Ultimately though yeah, it doesn't change my point yet.

I hope the next one sells great and is an even bigger critical success. I think the series deserves a far higher profile than it currently has!
 
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I do wonder if Bandai will eventually port Tales of Arise to Switch. It absolutely deserves the added spotlight.
My personal belief is that Tales of Arise, Soul Hackers 2, Star Ocean 6, and Scarlet Nexus are all going to make the jump to Switch sooner or later.

I am not reading all this Star Fox talk.
Start ranking JRPGs with us then
 
Again, we have multiple other franchises, including Fire Emblem itself, taking cues from Persona in response to Persona and its success.
I mean, this isn't even true though. I'm pretty sure the directors of 3H were specifically asked in interviews if they were influenced by Persona and they denied it. 3H's influences in terms of story, gameplay, and setting mainly came from some of KT's own franchises, FE itself (namely FE4) and I think they even mentioned Pikmin for the time management stuff.

That aside, if Persona only got into the A tier after Persona 5, then surely FE belongs in that tier too, given its been a major IP for longer than Persona (and with more games) and has also recieved high critical reception. I mean, Awakening has a 92 on MC, which is just 1 point below vanilla P5, and 3H, even with all of its (imo) issues, was still good enough to score an 89, which is also pretty close to Persona and pretty much makes it the second most critically acclaimed JRPG franchise after it (I don't consider Souls or MH in the same category personally). This upcoming new FE game could very well score in the 93+ range on MC just like Persona imo, and it could end up selling even higher than 3H has. I don't really think it's fair to rank Persona on a higher tier.
 
I mean, this isn't even true though. I'm pretty sure the directors of 3H were specifically asked in interviews if they were influenced by Persona and they denied it. 3H's influences in terms of story, gameplay, and setting mainly came from some of KT's own franchises, FE itself (namely FE4) and I think they even mentioned Pikmin for the time management stuff.

That aside, if Persona only got into the A tier after Persona 5, then surely FE belongs in that tier too, given its been a major IP for longer than Persona (and with more games) and has also recieved high critical reception. I mean, Awakening has a 92 on MC, which is just 1 point below vanilla P5, and 3H, even with all of its (imo) issues, was still good enough to score an 89, which is also pretty close to Persona and pretty much makes it the second most critically acclaimed JRPG after it (I don't consider Souls or MH in the same category personally). This upcoming new FE game could very well score in the 93+ range on MC just like Persona imo, and it could end up selling even higher than 3H has, so I don't really think it's fair to rank Persona on a higher tier.
The calendar system in Fire Emblem is absolutely a Persona derivative. It is also worth remembering that the developers never denied a Persona influence on the game, they just said the school setting was them looking at older FE games. Mechanically and structurally, FE has absolutely taken from Persona with Three Houses, I don't think anyone would deny that (it would be foolish to given how obvious it is).

If the next FE game continues the series' run since Awakening, I would have zero issues moving it up a tier. I love Fire Emblem, it's not like I am putting it down there out of spite. You mentioned Awakening, which I think is a good illustration of what I am saying: if FE had consistently followed up on Awakening's prestige and reception (it definitely continued to follow up on its sales), then it would be a no questions asked A tier franchise in this reckoning for me. But it's sort of been swerving since. Hopefully the next FE game builds on FETH and solidifies a general direction for the series, rather than the wild swerves back and forth we saw in the 3DS era.
 
I would purchase if it was on switch. I’m one of the few, who prefers playing third party games on switch. And where the hell is dark souls 2 and 3?
I actually love playing most (if not all) third party games, and especially JRPGs, on Switch too.

But I did not like Arise enough to want to force myself through it a second time even on my preferred system lol.
 
I would purchase if it was on switch. I’m one of the few, who prefers playing third party games on switch. And where the hell is dark souls 2 and 3?
I know multiple people who would do the same. I still prefer third parties on Playstation for the most part, but more reach is still more reach for these games.

Oh right, DS is also on Switch. Curious if Elden Ring will come one day....
 
Read about Nintendo's biggest mistakes a few pages back and I just like to add not buying the Banjo & Kazooie IP from Rareware before they got bought by Microsoft.

(Playing Rareware games right now and feeling a giant hole in my heart)
 
I think it’s hard to say there isn’t a Persona influence in FE: TH, just like in various other games (Trails of Cold Steel and Valkyria Chronicles 2 in particular comes to mind). It’s the calendar system plus social links plus exams plus the cast being a class plus being the same age plus teen drama tropes plus students being an adventuring/soldier team on special missions.

Like, of course the battle engines and stories are different, and stuff like social links was already there in FE, but a specific school year as a calendar framing device defining the pacing of a gameplay loop for a class of teenage heroes is there across a ton of rpgs following Persona 3/4/5.
 
My personal belief is that Tales of Arise, Soul Hackers 2, Star Ocean 6, and Scarlet Nexus are all going to make the jump to Switch sooner or later.


Start ranking JRPGs with us then
No idea about Star Ocean 6, I haven't been following it at all, but I feel like Arise and Scarlet Nexus are more likely to get Drake ports.

Could see Soul Hackers 2 though, assuming weak sales so far don't put a stop to that plan
 
Read about Nintendo's biggest mistakes a few pages back and I just like to add not buying the Banjo & Kazooie IP from Rareware before they got bought by Microsoft.

(Playing Rareware games right now and feeling a giant hole in my heart)

The harsh truth is that Nintendo probably just didn't see the need to keep Banjo-Kazooie around when they already had Mario and Donkey Kong for that sort of thing. And considering how the latter is going in terms of games these days, I'm not that convinced Banjo would fair much better under Nintendo.

I'd say just be happy we got them in Smash Ultimate and also N64 NSO as a bonus.
 
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