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StarTopic Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST3| Speculate Chronicles 3

WHEN

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They'd better not remaster Fire Emblem Path of of Radiance. I need that game to keep appreciating in value, so I can use it as the down payment on a house.
 
Hush said:
Nah, the GameCube was hit hard by the prevailing notion of ¨Who wants kiddy games?¨ at the times due to GTA becoming a cultural phenomenon and other series trying to cater to gamers getting older. I remember as a kid so many people and even gaming mags poking fun at Nintendo´s image since Mature games were taking over fast.
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Yeah, this was my experience. I was 10 when the GameCube came out and moving into secondary school I was one of the few people still really into Nintendo stuff as far as I could tell, while mostly everyone else had moved to PlayStation for your GTAs and the like. There was a huge perception issue around it being a little kid's toy rather than a full fat gaming system.
 
Jethro said:
Thread is moving fast that sonic would be proud of. After a long summer without a Direct i'm more than ready for this.
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I don’t want to be that guy but there’s been like 4 directs this summer (Xenoblade,Pokemon,Splatoon and Partner showcase)

But for real, with how long it’s been between general directs, I kinda enjoyed how Nintendo did their announcements this summer. They pretty much were in the news cycle almost every week since June. I’ve honestly thought “this soon?” in regards to a September direct even though it’s been 7ish months? It just didn’t seem that long
 
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Dardan Sandiego said:
You could get Ribbit King and Mister Mosquito on the PS2 for that full "Title + Animal Double Feature" experience. GameCube stood no chance.
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I keep forgetting Ribbit King was also on PS2, fuck
Why did you make me google Mr Mosquito I'm in the library and had PS2 feet on my screen just now
 
Comic Obsessed said:
They better make a full-blown remake. Great game but it makes the original Xenoblade Chronicles look beautiful.
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Which matters more: your ability to play a Fire Emblem game, or my financial future?

GameCube games are basically NFTS: speculative assets not works of art. And Nintendo needs to respect that.
 
thesupervillain said:
Been gone for about a month, what's happening?
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Everything. Nintendo Direct rumored for the week of September 12th, with a Zelda blowout of sorts including TWW/TP HD and hopefully BotW2, the long-rumored Metroid Prime HD as well as other remasters from the GameCube era. Nothing less than Christmas and Easter at the same time, coming in 12-13 days.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
I fall smack dab into that demographic but I live in Switzerland from my perspective the GC library got basically two minor spikes in popularity: When Nintendo released the Wii with backwards compatibility and New Play Control ports and later when Dolphin emulation took off. Depending on how Nintendo sells these games it won't just be "oh, I missed this the first time" but "oh, I didn't know this game even exists".


We'll see how ports do on Switch and beyond. I suspect that while perception definitely played a role the GameCube mainly failed because it simply lacked appealing software.
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We've seen far too many times in history that hardware holds software back, not the other way around. No amount of appealing software can salvage an unpopular platform. We've seen with both the GC and WiiU that sequels or remasters of their games often did 2x or better the sales on their popular successors (Wii and Switch).
 
I tell that story a lot.. but I asked for a GameCube, and ended with a PS2 instead... and just like the previous generation (I wanted a N64 and got a PS1), I always looked for the Nintendo equivalents on the PS2 library.

Now that I collect (hoard) stuff, I tend to buy much more GameCube games to play on my Wii than PS2 titles overall, even the multiplat games.. in fact, my "collection goal" on PS2 doesn't even reach 1/3 of what I aim to eventually get on GameCube.

but that's also my skewed taste.. not into Metal Gear, GTA, sports games and most of the Sony 1st Party titles either, so I wouldn't miss them if I had a GC back then, and all the 3rd Parties I cared (except for Crash Twinsanity) came out on the cube.
 
I think part of the Gamecube's lack of success came from its games, whilst being amazing in their own right, failing to feel truly 'modern' in the way others at the time were. It's easy to say "oh, people just wanted edgy mature games," but I think it's definitely deeper than that.

People at the time wanted big cinematic cutscenes, interactive open worlds, online multiplayer, stories that weren't just basic stuff, and so on... and Nintendo didn't really do any of those. They did what they did best, and they did that well, but in hindsight it's clear to me why that software failed to light the world on fire. I mean, they intentionally chose to make their two biggest franchises on the system 'low-key', by focusing on a limited literally-meant-to-be-casual vibe for Mario Sunshine, and a deliberately-limited cartoon art-style for Wind Waker.

Compare that to what you could find on other systems at the time. Massive epics with top-tier graphics and mo-cap from the likes of Metal Gear Solid 2, God of War and Final Fantasy X. New-to-console online experiences with Halo and its peers. Deep, mature narratives with Shadow of the Colossus, Okami and Silent Hill 2. Interactive, immersive open worlds with the GTA games. And so on. Even games that were 'for kids' in that era were generally more exciting and fresh outside of the Gamecube. Kingdom Hearts had Final Fantasy cross over with Disney, the Ratchet & Clank games had a (for its time) scathing satire of capitalism and bombastic shooter gameplay, Jak & Daxter became 'GTA for Kids' as the series went on, etc.

I'd liken it to how Nintendo treated discs with the Gamecube. Yeah, sure, they 'modernised' a bit by finally letting go of cartridges. But they didn't go all the way; they did things in their own weird conservative-yet-quirky way and made... little round proprietary discs. And, as such, the other consoles that had the big discs were seen as more modern and desirable.

Now I'm gonna stop here before this becomes even more a disc-measuring contest.
 
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BassForever said:
We've seen far too many times in history that hardware holds software back, not the other way around. No amount of appealing software can salvage an unpopular platform. We've seen with both the GC and WiiU that sequels or remasters of their games often did 2x or better the sales on their popular successors (Wii and Switch).
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This is kind of a chicken and egg situation. Similarly, popular hardware can't save unpopular software. We've seen the "Switch boost" mostly apply to games that were already (relatively) popular on the Wii U whereas TMS or Wonderful 101 just bombed again.
 
BradenAndEggs said:
Something Nintendo did definitely worked though. My first gaming console was the Game Boy Color and my first "home" console was the GameCube a couple of years later. I was like 8-10 years old.

If I hadn't been a part of Nintendo's """"ecosystem"""" at that time who knows if gaming would have become one of my primary hobbies?
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Pokemon was the draw for me into the ecosystem. Sonic was my Mario as a toddler so I only needed Nintendo hardware for one series that young lol.

Dardan Sandiego said:
We'll see how ports do on Switch and beyond. I suspect that while perception definitely played a role the GameCube mainly failed because it simply lacked appealing software.
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Its funny you say that because Nintendo has always had the most ¨tried and true¨ outputs with their consoles more often than not, so I definitely don´t think that is it. Its not like they put Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, etc. on the back burner that gen. I think those series were just not as relevant with changing tastes at the time. The Wii was really crucial in reminding people why they enjoyed those franchises.

Onosume said:
Yeah, this was my experience. I was 10 when the GameCube came out and moving into secondary school I was one of the few people still really into Nintendo stuff as far as I could tell, while mostly everyone else had moved to PlayStation for your GTAs and the like. There was a huge perception issue around it being a little kid's toy rather than a full fat gaming system.
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Yeah, it was extremely hard to see it as a gaming system for tweens and teens when the controller looked so Fisher Price-like and the shape was almost a purple lunchbox lol. It was just not a gen where Nintendo could get much focus as the industry was heading into the opposite direction of the games they made
 
1. A remastered Eternal Darkness would genuinely do well, it probably has the best shot at success of the non-Zeldas/Metroids.
2. Waverace and 1080 are easily accessible, small games and should also be remade.
3. Thousand Year Door should be remade as the series still exists.
4. F-Zero GX would clearly benefit from an online component.

As for StarFox? Well it's not like they're going to do anything better with the IP, lol.
 
MondoMega said:
Well, that's because Dream Buffet was mostly worked on by mainline staff that are also credited on Forgotten Land; Kumazaki directed and all! The Super Kirby Clash / Fighters 2 staff and Battle Royale staff both remain absent; so I think we'll see some more spin-off Kirby next year.

I'd like to think somebody is working on a new Kirby collection with Return to Dream Land and the 3DS titles, and Vanpool's known port project could fit the bill, but I like the idea of them working on Chibi-Robo too...



I'm not too sure about Animal Crossing to be honest. I think Story of Seasons shows there's some merit in remakes for life sim type games, and the original Animal Crossing is pretty far removed from where the series is now with New Horizons, so I think they could co-exist on a single platform. Gives them the potential to merge together all of the content from every version of the game too; that hasn't been done yet.
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Vanpool Chibi-Robo would be pretty much the only way to really continue the Love-De-Legacy at this point right? Actually would be really cool to have those types of projects continue under them.
EH1jmzsX4AULrsT
 
Hush said:
Its funny you say that because Nintendo has always had the most ¨tried and true¨ outputs with their consoles more often than not, so I definitely don´t think that is it. Its not like they put Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, etc. on the back burner that gen. I think those series were just not as relevant with changing tastes at the time. The Wii was really crucial in reminding people why they enjoyed those franchises.
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I mean that's basically what I said. There's a difference between "good" and "appealing".
 
Something I think about is how Super Smash Bros. Melee is the best-selling game on the GameCube and how much its popularity can be attributed to its aesthetic
Super-Smash-Bros.-Melee


MeleeTitle.png


Melee_Menu.png


Character_selection_melee.png


Stage_Select_Melee.png
Very heavy on dark, cool colors, lots of lines and patterns, big futuristic impressions. It's a look that you didn't see much from Nintendo games, and I think it's a lot of what makes Melee so appealing today.
 
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Dardan Sandiego said:
This is kind of a chicken and egg situation. Similarly, popular hardware can't save unpopular software. We've seen the "Switch boost" mostly apply to games that were already (relatively) popular on the Wii U whereas TMS or Wonderful 101 just bombed again.
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I wouldn't really call it chicken and the egg, your example just reinforces my point. I'm not going to say every GC game that underperformed would have done gangbusters on a more popular system, but we have enough examples with stuff like Pikmin, Smash Bros, Luigi's Mansion, and Animal Crossing that these games had much stronger sales potential that they couldn't reach on the GC. You're not going to see me get on a box and argue that Geist, Odama, or Chibi Robo were held back by the GC.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
I mean that's basically what I said. There's a difference between "good" and "appealing".
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Its just that Mario is still Mario, and its really not anyone´s fault why Mario wasn´t appealing that gen. Nintendo was just being themselves and that is just not what the majority of consumers wanted to spend their money on. There was little they could do outside of flipping the script on their brand
 
BassForever said:
I wouldn't really call it chicken and the egg, your example just reinforces my point. I'm not going to say every GC game that underperformed would have done gangbusters on a more popular system, but we have enough examples with stuff like Pikmin, Smash Bros, Luigi's Mansion, and Animal Crossing that these games likely had much stronger sales potential that they couldn't reach on the GC. You're not going to see me get on a box and argue that Geist, Odama, or Chibi Robo were held back by the GC.
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Okay but... I'm not arguing against any of this?
 
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Loving the early 2000s vibe in here!

Okay, if F-Zero GX is coming this means a door has opened for Skies of Arcadia: Legends.

Imagine the greatest JRPG of all-time launching on the Dreamcast six months before the death notice, only to become exclusive to the GameCube three years later. Nothing deserves to suffer such a fate. Bring it to Switch Sega!

Chances are probably at a zero, but if I hear this theme in a Direct before I die I might just legit cry.

 
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I've wanted this for so long. Go completely nuts with HD remakes/remasters. Give EVERYTHING the Xenoblade DE treatment.

Luigi's Mansion, F-Zero GX, Kid Icarus Uprising, all of the SD Fire Emblems, Zeldas, Paper Marios, Star Fox games, the other 2 Primes, Pikmin 1+2, Eternal Darkness, Endless Ocean, etc. Every last thing.

Plum said:
I think part of the Gamecube's lack of success came from its games, whilst being amazing in their own right, failing to feel truly 'modern' in the way others at the time were. It's easy to say "oh, people just wanted edgy mature games," but I think it's definitely deeper than that.

People at the time wanted big cinematic cutscenes, interactive open worlds, online multiplayer, stories that weren't just basic stuff, and so on... and Nintendo didn't really do any of those. They did what they did best, and they did that well, but in hindsight it's clear to me why that software failed to light the world on fire. I mean, they intentionally chose to make their two biggest franchises on the system 'low-key', by focusing on a limited literally-meant-to-be-casual vibe for Mario Sunshine, and a deliberately-limited cartoon art-style for Wind Waker.

Compare that to what you could find on other systems at the time. Massive epics with top-tier graphics and mo-cap from the likes of Metal Gear Solid 2, God of War and Final Fantasy X. New-to-console online experiences with Halo and its peers. Deep, mature narratives with Shadow of the Colossus, Okami and Silent Hill 2. Interactive, immersive open worlds with the GTA games. And so on. Even games that were 'for kids' in that era were generally more exciting and fresh outside of the Gamecube. Kingdom Hearts had Final Fantasy cross over with Disney, the Ratchet & Clank games had a (for its time) scathing satire of capitalism and bombastic shooter gameplay, Jak & Daxter became 'GTA for Kids' as the series went on, etc.

I'd liken it to how Nintendo treated discs with the Gamecube. Yeah, sure, they 'modernised' a bit by finally letting go of cartridges. But they didn't go all the way; they did things in their own weird conservative-yet-quirky way and made... little round proprietary discs. And, as such, the other consoles that had the big discs were seen as more modern and desirable.

Now I'm gonna stop here before this becomes even more a disc-measuring contest.
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I would push back on the online multiplayer part. It was a relatively new thing for consoles that only really caught fire with Xbox Live and Halo 2 in 2004.

The rest is definitely true. Really, it was both Melee and Metroid Prime that were Nintendo's strongest aesthetic competition against the other games you mentioned. I don't just think it was the transition from 2D to 3D and first-person for Metroid Prime that garnered the accolades. I think they saw it as Metroid growing up in ways Nintendo's other franchises may not have at the time. It didn't happen with Zelda until Twilight Princess and it didn't happen with Mario until Galaxy.
 
Plum said:
Honestly I still don't believe that we're truly getting a "new generation," next year. It feels like the Switch could go on for a few years at least.
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I think they HAVE to refresh things in meaningful ways, or else the gulf between the Switch and its competitors will only widen in ways that may not be immediately anticipated.

For example: fighting game devs have finally started to truly appreciate the "rollback mandate", and cross-play is creeping in, as well. Which is great for the FGC, but perhaps not so great for Switch in the long run, because rollback netcode requires a non-insignificant amount of horsepower from the hardware. Couple that with most of the "AAA" sphere of fighting games using UE4, and that really starts to stretch the limits of what the Switch is capable of.

After Switch became a Nintendo console that was starting to making in-roads with decent fighting game representation on the platform, it'd be sad if the only thing that'd be really be keeping the likes of SF6, Riot's "Project L", as well as Netherrealm and Arc System Works' future offerings off of Switch's successor was because it simply isn't capable of supporting those games. And at this point, the next Smash (whenever it happens) really, really, really, REALLY should have rollback, itself. Bamco or no.

Chaos Theory said:
As for StarFox? Well it's not like they're going to do anything better with the IP, lol.
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It also would work because I think one of the problems facing StarFox is that it's been stuck in the "StarFox 64" niche for ages now, to the point that some still think that the only way the series can be "good again" is more like it keeps being made.

Adventures and Assault being two decisively non-SF64 styled games that are liked and desired could hopefully be both a nice counter to that train of thought, while also introduce new fans. And if Nintendo somehow isn't already working on a new direction for the series, they'd at least have the opportunity to kick the can down the road a few more years to figure it out.

As an additional bonus, you'd also have a chance to reintroduce Krystal (a character that has been asked about for ages), and hopefully, do it in a much more flattering way, this time.
 
Apopheniac said:
imagine telling someone 20 years ago that Animal Crossing would outsell Super Smash Bros. by 10 million
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I remember hurrying home from high school to play Animal Crossing for the first time. I'd been waiting for it forever after an import review of Animal Forest in Cube magazine. Hoo boy.
Phendrift said:
I don’t think we see F-Zero or Kid Icarus in this direct. Too much smoke for Zelda GC and MPHD comparatively.
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I'm agreed, though I wonder if Nate's From Zero to hero tweet was a hint at it being revealed. Could easily simply be a hint F Zero is in development. The Zelda and Metroid remasters seem a lock currently and could even all be out this year.
oracion said:
Where is Yoshi's Woolly World Deluxe?
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Given how Crafted World did (3 million by the end of 2021), I think we're due for more Yoshi soon. Selfishly I hope it's a Woolly World port so that Good Feel can work on something else...
Leo said:
Nintendo-senpai please notice Famiboards
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Nintendo-senpai notices Famiboards the horror.... THE HORROR
Raccoon said:
definitely bums me out that the switch is wrapping up but it's had a longer run than it feels
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I mean, even though new hardware is coming, I really don't think we're seeing Switch wrap up. It's going to be a gradual wind down for the current hardware and I suspect it's going to have a more successful long tail than 3DS.

I also wouldn't be surprised when Switch services, UI and iconography carry on even though new hardware is using it.
 
The "kid friendly image" argument doesn't pass muster, becuase the Xbox also underperformed. Why does the answer for "why didn't the GameCube succeed" have to be anything other than "Playstation 2."
 
9-Volt said:
Too bad Simpsons license is rotting in the hands of EA. They keep renewing it for that stupid mobile game and doing absolutely nothing else. A Hit & Run and Road Rash remaster pack would have been sweet...
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I normally don't ask for remasters and such... but a Hit & Run re-release would been sweet.. especially because I don't think a modern Simpsons game on the same vein could match it.

I also like the Movie game; it was fine.
 
Hush said:
Its just that Mario is still Mario, and its really not anyone´s fault why Mario wasn´t appealing that gen. Nintendo was just being themselves and that is just not what the majority of consumers wanted to spend their money on. There was little they could do outside of flipping the script on their brand
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Honestly... I would say it's Nintendo's fault alone that Mario wasn't appealing that gen. They chose to follow up Mario 64 with... a game set entirely on a tropical island where the main new gimmick is... stopping in your tracks to spray water everywhere? One with a story in which Mario does... community service? It's such a weird direction to take the series in and I can see why people looked at it and just didn't get that hyped.

Christo750 said:
I would push back on the online multiplayer part. It was a relatively new thing for consoles that only really caught fire with Xbox Live and Halo 2 in 2004.

The rest is definitely true. Really, it was both Melee and Metroid Prime that were Nintendo's strongest aesthetic competition against the other games you mentioned. I don't just think it was the transition from 2D to 3D and first-person for Metroid Prime that garnered the accolades. I think they saw it as Metroid growing up in ways Nintendo's other franchises may not have at the time. It didn't happen with Zelda until Twilight Princess and it didn't happen with Mario until Galaxy.
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Yeah, true. It was a relatively late and niche thing. But it was still a really good example of how Nintendo was falling behind the times as other consoles surpassed them. The rest I agree with; but even then, Metroid Prime was still somewhat stuck in 'old ways' of thinking, just much less so. For instance its control scheme was lock-on based in an era where Halo, Timesplitters, Killzone, etc were actively inventing the dual-stick setup. It was relatively very low on cutscenes or 'bombast' compared to Halo, and it was definitely much less 'mature-rated' compared to it. It was definitely one of the Gamecube's most forward-thinking games, though. I can 100% agree on that.
 
Not gonna go meh until after the direct.. but if it really is remaster bonanza going forward I'll be a little bit dissapointed not gonna lie.
Though if they would partner up with Sega and remaster/remake Skies of Arcadia Legends.. I'd take everything back.

In the end, this leans towards how I think the next years are going for Nintendo
Lesser original content with lots of remasters until Switch 2 is announced (not a "pro") for late 2023/early 2024, and go crossgen with new titles another 2 years or so. Switch lifespan -> 2017-2026 which not only will ensure Switch will become the most succesful console of all time, but also a very long lifespan for a Nintendo system.
 
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Apopheniac said:
Something I think about is how Super Smash Bros. Melee is the best-selling game on the GameCube and how much its popularity can be attributed to its aesthetic
Super-Smash-Bros.-Melee


MeleeTitle.png


Melee_Menu.png


Character_selection_melee.png


Stage_Select_Melee.png
Very heavy on dark, cool colors, lots of lines and patterns, big futuristic impressions. It's a look that you didn't see much from Nintendo games, and I think it's a lot of what makes Melee so appealing today.
Click to expand...

It's still the most aesthetically grained into my mind of the whole series. It also seemed like THE graphical showcase for the machine for the longest. Seeing all your favorite Nintendo characters in next-gen 3D like that was so cool.

GameCube launch in general was so weird though. Wasn't it just Luigi's Mansion, Roque Squadron, and Wave Race at launch? And then Pikimin + Smash came a month later.

As much as I personally loved the former games listed, Melee kinda carried system for the longest as far as mainstream offerings go. I'm sure that helped with sales a ton as well.
 
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