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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Botw2 is still coming to Switch. The only one that they could potentially walk back on is MP4 being Switch 2 only since it is taking so long to develop
Metroid Prime 4 is still a Switch title. If the new DLSS model is marketed as a successor, it'll be cross-gen. It's not taking that long, it was just announced way too early and then rebooted just in 2019 while its team was making another game(MP1 remaster). By 2023 it'll have 4-5 years of development, about the same Splatoon 3 is gonna have when it launches.
 
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Metroid Prime 4 on Switch 720p/30fps
Metroid Prime 4 on Dane Switch 1800p (via dlss)/60fps

make it happen!

If they somehow go with 30FPS Metroid Prime 4, I'd be so shocked. Samus has been designed for 60FPS since Prime 1.
 
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Are we expecting 1080p screen on Switch 2? And there is no reason for it to not run DLSS at 1080p, right? Iirc DLSS can do up to 4x upscale so technically if it is 1080p at handheld mode, Switch 2 just need to run the game at 540p and DLSS will upscale to 1080p.

Although, using DLSS to upscale from 540p 1080p is not as good as from 1080p to 4k iirc since there is less info for chip to work on

IMO chances are 50% for 1080p and 50% for 720p screen, I dont think they can mistake in any case.

I just dont see 900p screen, it would be very strange..


Botw2 is still coming to Switch. The only one that they could potentially walk back on is MP4 being Switch 2 only since it is taking so long to develop

MP4 is 100% coming to current Switch also, but at this point its most likely cross gen game.
 
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After Nates podcast I could said not many new things expect Nate said that he stop referring to it like Switch Pro and that current release time frame is Q4 2022-Q1 2023, and offcourse that could easily be changed.

Also previous general talk here about BC is IMO unnecessary, I am certain that one of most important goals for Nintendo and Nvidia is to have BC with new hardware.
 
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Metroid Prime 4 on Switch 720p/30fps
Metroid Prime 4 on Dane Switch 1800p (via dlss)/60fps

make it happen!
I think it'll be 720-900p/60fps on OG and 4k DLSS/60fps on Dane.
The series' only 30fps since Super was Samus Returns. I don't believe for a second they would release Dread 900p/60, then Prime Remakester probably 1080/60, just so the most anticipated game ever in the series and one of the most anticipated games of the Switch gen is 720/30. That'd be a shame.
 
I think it'll be 720-900p/60fps on OG and 4k DLSS/60fps on Dane.
The series' only 30fps since Super was Samus Returns. I don't believe for a second they would release Dread 900p/60, then Prime Remakester probably 1080/60, just so the most anticipated game ever in the series and one of the most anticipated games of the Switch gen is 720/30. That'd be a shame.

Metroid Prime at 30FPS would be almost same like having Mario Kart at 30FPS.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the Dane Switch sticks with the 720p, LCD, 6,2in display of OG hybrid. Unless OLED is somehow cheaper than LCD in 2022/23.
I think it'll be a fairly enhanced experience for docked play with 4K and more visual features, but I don't think it'll have the bigger screen. After all there HAS to be a reason for the OLED to exist. It has to appeal to someone. If Dane comes with OLED 7in 1080p screen it would make literally no sense to get an OLED instead of an OG or Lite or Dane. And OLED is priced 50 US$ higher than the base model.
 
Metroid Prime at 30FPS would be almost same like having Mario Kart at 30FPS.
Exactly. It makes no sense. Like at all. Mainly because the game has been in development for OG Switch from the very beginning. It's not like they didn't know everybody was the least expecting gameplay fluidity of the Trilogy. And after Dread the expectancies are far, far higher. BotW ran the same on the Switch as it did on Wii U, except for being 900p. But it still was dynamic 720p on portable.
 
I wonder how many oled buyers will be angry if nintendo announces the switch DLSS model next year. Not everyone is in the know that there is a new model coming and look at forums for rumors. I wonder what the reaction will be for those people
 
Exactly. It makes no sense. Like at all. Mainly because the game has been in development for OG Switch from the very beginning. It's not like they didn't know everybody was the least expecting gameplay fluidity of the Trilogy. And after Dread the expectancies are far, far higher. BotW ran the same on the Switch as it did on Wii U, except for being 900p. But it still was dynamic 720p on portable.

Yeah, Metroid Prime is 1st person and game with faster gameplay, there is reason why all Metroid Prime game are 60FPS,
on other hand almost all 3D Zelda games were 30FPS.
 
Exactly. It makes no sense. Like at all. Mainly because the game has been in development for OG Switch from the very beginning. It's not like they didn't know everybody was the least expecting gameplay fluidity of the Trilogy. And after Dread the expectancies are far, far higher. BotW ran the same on the Switch as it did on Wii U, except for being 900p. But it still was dynamic 720p on portable.
Let’s just see what happens. We never know. It depends on a lot. They could change artstyles and try to be more realistic. No one really knows.
 
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The only metric I will use to judge the power and BC capabilities of the Succ is “can it play Xenoblade DE/2 at 4K/30 all the time?”
 
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I wonder how many oled buyers will be angry if nintendo announces the switch DLSS model next year. Not everyone is in the know that there is a new model coming and look at forums for rumors. I wonder what the reaction will be for those people
September 2022 announcement and a March 2023 release would help. Plus I imagine we’ll have a decently long cross gen period as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Dane Switch sticks with the 720p, LCD, 6,2in display of OG hybrid. Unless OLED is somehow cheaper than LCD in 2022/23.
I think it'll be a fairly enhanced experience for docked play with 4K and more visual features, but I don't think it'll have the bigger screen. After all there HAS to be a reason for the OLED to exist. It has to appeal to someone. If Dane comes with OLED 7in 1080p screen it would make literally no sense to get an OLED instead of an OG or Lite or Dane. And OLED is priced 50 US$ higher than the base model.
Mobile OLED displays aren’t as expensive as TVs, they’re much more mass market and the overall price of OLED is going to drop steadily over the next few years due to some great manufacturing improvements coming up as well as more vendors stepping into the market. OLED is quickly becoming the standard for mobile devices. The added cost to the BoM won’t be that much, especially factoring in the size of the orders Nintendo will be putting in.
 
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I was kinda confused when they mentioned BC is a concern right now, considering they will keep using ARM chips. But I am not super familiar with development, so why could that be a problem?
 
I was kinda confused when they mentioned BC is a concern right now, considering they will keep using ARM chips. But I am not super familiar with development, so why could that be a problem?
It's mainly the GPU that presents problems, not the CPU. Those are typically not binary compatible across generations.

I wouldn't really say it's a concern, though. If Nintendo wants it to happen, Nvidia will be able to provide them with a solution, and there's no reason to think Nintendo doesn't want it to happen.
 
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I was kinda confused when they mentioned BC is a concern right now, considering they will keep using ARM chips. But I am not super familiar with development, so why could that be a problem?
It's the GPU that has a problem with backwards compatibility rather than the CPU. But it's not an unsolvable problem. NateDrake and MVG discussed about possible solutions to deal with the backwards compatibility issue on the GPU side during the latest Nate the Hate episode.
 
~

I think one good news to takeaway from TSMC's Q3 2021 quarterly results is that Intel and Samsung legitimately have a chance to catch up with TSMC and/or be competitive against TSMC, assuming Intel and Samsung don't screw up.
With N2 targeting 2025, the opportunity is certainly there. Samsung should have had multiple swings at GAAFET by that time. Intel's currently targeting RibbonFET/GAAFET in second half of 2024. And they plan to be the first users of High-NA EUV a year after that. But yea, it all comes back to execution.
(and hopefully there'll be several good options for Atlan)
 
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It's the GPU that has a problem with backwards compatibility rather than the CPU. But it's not an unsolvable problem. NateDrake and MVG discussed about possible solutions to deal with the backwards compatibility issue on the GPU side during the latest Nate the Hate episode.
ah missed this recap post. Thanks.

Now I have questions regarding why they thought it was a good idea to tie the shader package to Maxwell GPU when Nvidia move onto the next GPU microarchitecture every year to two
 
ah missed this recap post. Thanks.

Now I have questions regarding why they thought it was a good idea to tie the shader package to Maxwell GPU when Nvidia move onto the next GPU microarchitecture every year to two
Usually Nvidia's architectures are compatible with each other, the difference with Switch is that the drivers are precompiled for each game, rather than at a system level. This was likely done to get a little extra juice out of the GPU.
 
Metroid Prime 4 on Switch 720p/30fps
Metroid Prime 4 on Dane Switch 1800p (via dlss)/60fps

make it happen!
considering the prime games have always been 60 fps, I'm hoping 720p 60fps for regular switch at least, and 1080p 60fps with extra effects on switch 2 (without DLSS).
 
I think a big factor in the backwards compatibility discussion would be the "Put it on Switch" movement, where a vocal portion of the Switch audience wanted all of their favorite classics and indies ported to Switch, so that they could have a "Greatest Hits" collection they could take on the go. Having backwards compatibility would continue this momentum, whereas not having it would very quickly chill that portion of the market.
 
ah missed this recap post. Thanks.

Now I have questions regarding why they thought it was a good idea to tie the shader package to Maxwell GPU when Nvidia move onto the next GPU microarchitecture every year to two
This is SOP for game dev on consoles. Nintendo has done nothing weird, PlayStation and Xbox both have the same challenge - Xbox hasn't just changed the GPU microarch, they've changed the CPU arch as well. Nintendo has the same options that Sony and Microsoft had for backward compat, they're just a little more constrained because being on a handheld makes power/heat/size all at a premium.

We've heard rumors about a Switch revision forever. No world where a revision doesn't have backwards compat. BC will be there. The only reasons it's even an interesting discussion (and I think a lot of people are tired of it, so it might not even be that) is that for a revision, the expectation would be for a Super Tegra, a chip that looks just like the one in the current switch But Beefier - but every reliable rumor points to that not being the case, that Nintendo is doing something far more rad and cool.
 
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considering the prime games have always been 60 fps, I'm hoping 720p 60fps for regular switch at least, and 1080p 60fps with extra effects on switch 2 (without DLSS).
I just don't expect extra effects if the game wasn't made with them in mind. for that, I'd rather they build with 60fps on Dane Switch then cut resolution and framerate on Erista/Mariko Switch
 
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Switch users who don't feel the need to upgrade to the next Switch will not turn down Metroid Prime 4 and all of its glory because it's 30fps. Especially since the game will likely be larger and look more impressive because of it.
 
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Upcoming talk at Nvidia GTC on Wednesday Nov 10 at 7AM Pacific Time:

NVIDIA AGX Platform: Scalable and Modular Architecture for High Performance AI Compute
This session will provide an in-depth view into the NVIDIA AGX product line up based on the NVIDIA Orin SoC. It will feature the modular and scalable architecture of these products and dive deeper into how these are used across multiple industries such as autonomous vehicles, robotics, and healthcare.​

"Product lineup" and "multiple industries" caught my eyes. "Gaming" is not listed though.
 
Upcoming talk at Nvidia GTC on Wednesday Nov 10 at 7AM Pacific Time:

NVIDIA AGX Platform: Scalable and Modular Architecture for High Performance AI Compute
This session will provide an in-depth view into the NVIDIA AGX product line up based on the NVIDIA Orin SoC. It will feature the modular and scalable architecture of these products and dive deeper into how these are used across multiple industries such as autonomous vehicles, robotics, and healthcare.​

"Product lineup" and "multiple industries" caught my eyes. "Gaming" is not listed though.
GTC is generally an event tailored towards professionals, so not surprising.
 
That's true, but I don't think gaming's generally the main focus for GTC.
the tech and tools side of gaming is very much a focus. just nothing the player would see, but the develop. there's a DLSS in Frostbite session this year, for example
 
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EDIT: cool, didn't know the media tag supported reddit
EDIT 2: Deathloop


So DRS+DLAA could be an interesting alternative to DRS+DLSS then it seems, although I do wonder at what "Multiplier" does DLAA loose versus DLSS.

AKA, what resolution internally does DLAA look worse than DLSS upscaling from that native res.

I do sort of think that 1440p DLAA likely wouldn't look too different versus Quality DLSS at 4k for most scenarios.
 
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Was just reading that summary of Nate’s pod, surely at this point it’s too late in the day for this to be a mid gen refresh? Assuming it comes in 2023 that’s 6 years into Switch lifecycle. Also, if this is being talked about as a ‘New 3DS’ style console, are we expecting it to only get a slight bump in power?

The talk of it being a mid gen system/some exclusive games surely should mean regular Switch games play on it also meaning BC issues have been resolved?

So many questions haha
 
Was just reading that summary of Nate’s pod, surely at this point it’s too late in the day for this to be a mid gen refresh? Assuming it comes in 2023 that’s 6 years into Switch lifecycle. Also, if this is being talked about as a ‘New 3DS’ style console, are we expecting it to only get a slight bump in power?

The talk of it being a mid gen system/some exclusive games surely should mean regular Switch games play on it also meaning BC issues have been resolved?

So many questions haha
the hardware that's been speculated on hasn't changed. the name, in that respect, is arbitrary. marketing-wise, they may go the "Switch 2" route or something
 
I had read the news about BC and even though I knew it was way too early and general doomposting, I did get shook for a second. I have faith they'll get it done, I'm just surprised it could come so soon since I feel like the Switch still has legs, speaking if it is a "new system" and not a general hardware upgrade. (Not that I know much about the tech stuff anyways.)
 
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the hardware that's been speculated on hasn't changed. the name, in that respect, is arbitrary. marketing-wise, they may go the "Switch 2" route or something
Sure but I mean if the actual hardware itself is being referred to as being in ‘mid gen refresh’ bracket it doesn’t feel like it will be that big a jump if you see what I mean. Like I feel we need something a bit more substantial than just a ‘New Nintendo Switch’
 
Sure but I mean if the actual hardware itself is being referred to as being in ‘mid gen refresh’ bracket it doesn’t feel like it will be that big a jump if you see what I mean. Like I feel we need something a bit more substantial than just a ‘New Nintendo Switch’
like actual clock speeds? yea. but considering we know the CPU arch and the gpu arch and how they compare to the Switch's. at that point, Nintendo has to go ludicrously low to be on the level of the DSi/n3DS/PS4 Pro, etc
 
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It would actually be a horrible business decision. I think there's this recency bias going around regarding Nintendo, as if anything they touch turns to gold and there are limitless Nintendo lemmings that just gobble up anything they put out. You'd think the Wii U/3DS generation would have dispelled this notion once and for all, but I guess not.

No BC in the Switch successor would completely destroy consumer confidence in Nintendo's digital ecosystem, would severely diminish the desire of families to upgrade anytime within the first few years of launch, and drip-feeding NES/SNES games on a new platform would take away one of the main selling points of the massive revenue stream that is NSO.

Also, BC isn't going to stop Nintendo from re-releasing Switch games if they feel there's a market for them. If they decided to release a 4k/60fps BotW port on the new hardware, it'd sell millions of copies, regardless of the original game being playable on the system.
You’re replying to a joke.
 
Sure but I mean if the actual hardware itself is being referred to as being in ‘mid gen refresh’ bracket it doesn’t feel like it will be that big a jump if you see what I mean. Like I feel we need something a bit more substantial than just a ‘New Nintendo Switch’
Fortunately, marketing decisions are much more flexible and fluid than hardware decisions.

~



Jon from Spawn Wave was doing a quick summary of what NateDrake and MVG said on the latest Nate the Hate episode released yesterday for the most part. However, Jon brought up a question near the end of the video, asking would there be compatibility on the Nintendo Switch via the cloud, where a game runs natively on the DLSS model*, but consumers can still play that game on the Nintendo Switch by buying the cloud version of that game? Jon mentions Hitman 3, Control, and Kingdom Hearts as examples.

So the question I have is will third party developers bother releasing cross-gen games by having games run natively on the DLSS model* and having games run via the cloud on the Nintendo Switch?
 
Do we know the sale number of any of the clouds version games on switch right now?Having those numbers will be easier to answer that question.

I personally feel like it would be a mess to market if current switch support the cloud version only while the DLSS switch support physical card and run them natively. Would not wanna see another for New 3DS only situation.
 
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I think it hasn't a lot of sense to extrapolate that they have more money to invest due to Animal Crossing and the pandemic. That's pretty reductive.

100% agreed. The pandemic excuse for Animal Crossing sales reminds me of the "Easter" excuse used back in the day on GAF when the Wii took off.

Agreed.

(Sorry if these posts are past their prime, but I just recently found out about this site and I’m catching up on reading :p)

given that everything blew up in sales, it's very much a good reason

Overall software sales in general increased during pandemic lockdowns.

That is to say, for every gamer that would have bought 0-1 games during that time, maybe bought 2-3. And so forth.

The buoy to huge game sales during this period were widespread, afffecting large swathe of indies and older AAA titles etc etc

There seems to be no apparent, visible pandemic affect on any single title though. So it’s erroneous to say a particular game wouldn’t have sold a lot less if it wasn’t for the pandemic.

For example, TLOU2 and FF7 remake and Doom Eternal Ltd sales wouldn’t be noticeably much different had the pandemic not happened.

I mean, if you are saying Animal crossing would have only sold 32 million instead of 35 million had the pandemic not happened…ok, but that’s just quibbling lol.

Given that in 5 month’s time Switch will be 5 years old, I wonder when are we going to start hearing about the successor.

Successor? Probably in like 6-7 years.

The “mid gen” revision upgrade? I suspect they will announce it next year. Probably around the end of summer
 
Usually Nvidia's architectures are compatible with each other, the difference with Switch is that the drivers are precompiled for each game, rather than at a system level. This was likely done to get a little extra juice out of the GPU.

It doesnt even cross my mind that forward compatibility wasnt a factor when designing the switch. They're kinda forced with the way they've been pushing digital sales, it would be beyond the pale not to do it. And bc has always been a priority for nintendo whenever possible
 
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