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StarTopic Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST3| Speculate Chronicles 3

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The big problem with Nintendo's output on the Switch is that for a hybrid system, console games on the go are clearly the bigger priority with the other half of the hybrid approach - handheld games on a TV - feeling quite de-emphasized. For the latter group, the only major games I can think of are Pokemon (the only big series for this side), Metroid Dread, both mainline Kirby games, Warioware, Advance Wars (RIP), and I guess the Mario Sports titles + Mario Party. Meanwhile, for console-tier experiences, there's BotW and its upcoming sequel, Mario Odyssey, all 4 Xenoblade releases, Bayonetta 3, both Splatoon games, LM3... it would be really nice, for both the fans and Nintendo themselves, if there were more tentpole handheld-tier releases. It would bring variety to their releases while also costing less to make.

EDIT: As soon as I posted this I realized Mario Sports/Party should also count as "big series" for the handheld side. My bad
 
This year has been a bad Nintendo year for me, but I definitely acknowledge that Nintendo has put out a ton of stuff this year, that's very popular with a lot of people. Just not me, sadly.
 
Bonejack said:
jackass-tidal-wave.gif


For this take, not even the big Super Soaker was enough, i had to take out the Jackass Tidal Wave.
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This dude got vaporized by the water. Where tf did he go?
 
Paxie said:
The big problem with Nintendo's output on the Switch is that for a hybrid system, console games on the go are clearly the bigger priority with the other half of the hybrid approach - handheld games on a TV - feeling quite de-emphasized. For the latter group, the only major games I can think of are Pokemon (the only big series for this side), Metroid Dread, both mainline Kirby games, Warioware, Advance Wars (RIP), and I guess the Mario Sports titles + Mario Party. Meanwhile, for console-tier experiences, there's BotW and its upcoming sequel, Mario Odyssey, all 4 Xenoblade releases, Bayonetta 3, both Splatoon games, LM3... it would be really nice, for both the fans and Nintendo themselves, if there were more tentpole handheld-tier releases. It would bring variety to their releases while also costing less to make.

EDIT: As soon as I posted this I realized Mario Sports/Party should also count as "big series" for the handheld side. My bad
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I like how your list of handheld games on the tv is longer then your list of tv games you can take on the go :p

Also the slander at saying Metroid and Kirby aren't big series, or that Animal Crossing isn't the ideal pick up and play handheld game on a tv smh.
 
Paxie said:
The big problem with Nintendo's output on the Switch is that for a hybrid system, console games on the go are clearly the bigger priority with the other half of the hybrid approach - handheld games on a TV - feeling quite de-emphasized. For the latter group, the only major games I can think of are Pokemon (the only big series for this side), Metroid Dread, both mainline Kirby games, Warioware, Advance Wars (RIP), and I guess the Mario Sports titles + Mario Party. Meanwhile, for console-tier experiences, there's BotW and its upcoming sequel, Mario Odyssey, all 4 Xenoblade releases, Bayonetta 3, both Splatoon games, LM3... it would be really nice, for both the fans and Nintendo themselves, if there were more tentpole handheld-tier releases. It would bring variety to their releases while also costing less to make.

EDIT: As soon as I posted this I realized Mario Sports/Party should also count as "big series" for the handheld side. My bad
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I feel like the lines between home console and handheld series started blurring with the 3DS already, at least as far as some series are concerned. I wouldn’t know where to put Fire Emblem for example. But it’s true that some handheld series are weirdly missing, especially because they require less resources than their bigger stuff.
 
I know I said I'd go do job applications, but I can't be arsed right this minute and wanted to look up Iwata's comments on solving software shortages that have caused such a fuss over the years.

Here are some key points, with my own analysis, to remember next time we hop on the old merry go round:

  • Iwata specifically talks about making it easier to port home console games to handheld and vice versa; this is February 2014 and Nintendo are already working to make sure Wii U games would easily be portable to their next system. He notes it is hard to port Wii to 3DS and 3DS to Wii U; easier porting processes were always part of the Switch software plan. Iwata flat out states that making it easier to move software from one system to another will make launching new hardware much easier because there will be no game shortage during the transition. History proved him correct: Mario Kart 8 DX and Breath of the Wild launching in spring 2017 were and have remained instrumental to Switch's success. Iwata is not talking about the whole life cycle, but the beginning and transitional period.
  • Iwata talks about the importance of keeping architecture and processes the same from one system to the next, as opposed to radically changing things. He notes that the next Nintendo system (Switch) will be the first system designed with this priority in mind. He specifically raises the point that if Nintendo had three or four different 'form factors' (hardware) each with a different 'architecture' (chipset, development tools etc), there would be "serious shortages of software on every platform". He then discusses iOS and Android as having a common platform across multiple hardware form factors and says this is what Nintendo want. In early 2014, Nintendo hadn't yet settled on their system as being a single integrated device, but they did want a single development environment and single software library. This point, as well as the point about making sure software is easily playable on different hardware (including the next hardware), should reassure people who are concerned about backwards compatibility or Nintendo not having the software to launch new hardware.
  • When he addresses game shortages again, he specifically cites the context of "game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another". The changes Nintendo made in 2013/14 weren't intended to "stop software droughts" all the time, but were specifically targeting the riskiest area of their business: the generational transitions. It's no surprise Nintendo were identifying that area as the major problem: if your system doesn't have system-selling software early, it doesn't take off, and third-parties don't stick around for Nintendo; the company had just gone through that cycle and undone all of the audience-building they'd done with Wii. Wii software support slowed down because 3DS and Wii U were coming; 3DS and Wii U both got off to a slow start because the software pipeline was targeting multiple platforms with different development environments; 3DS could be salvaged, but Wii U couldn't; but Wii U development demands still delayed other 3DS titles beyond the immediate launch period (Link Between Worlds, for example).

Here's the full, and very interesting quote:

Satoru Iwata said:
Last year Nintendo reorganized its R&D divisions and integrated the handheld device and home console development teams into one division under Mr. Takeda. Previously, our handheld video game devices and home video game consoles had to be developed separately as the technological requirements of each system, whether it was battery-powered or connected to a power supply, differed greatly, leading to completely different architectures and, hence, divergent methods of software development. However, because of vast technological advances, it became possible to achieve a fair degree of architectural integration. We discussed this point, and we ultimately concluded that it was the right time to integrate the two teams.

For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms. Also, as technological advances took place at such a dramatic rate, and we were forced to choose the best technologies for video games under cost restrictions, each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.
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As a fan of mostly Mario (2D/3D, Kart and the RPGs) and DK these last few years weren’t really for me. I appreciate that Nintendo does a lot for other franchises though and I‘m pretty sure EPD will soon be back on the cards with some surprises.
 
I thought I would humor this, this person had leaked 1 thing correct and then everything else was wrong lol. But apparently they might be hinting Octopath Traveler 2?

Although that's nothing to leak about since the team behind Octopath Traveler had already confirmed back in 2018/2019 they're already working on the next console game after announcing the mobile gacha game.

 
BassForever said:
I like how your list of handheld games on the tv is longer then your list of tv games you can take on the go :p

Also the slander at saying Metroid and Kirby aren't big series, or that Animal Crossing isn't the ideal pick up and play handheld game on a tv smh.
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Tbh I completely forgot about Animal Crossing too, my memory can be shit lmao. While Kirby and Metroid are decently-sized series, they're comparatively niche when including stuff like Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, etc. And in fairness a big reason the console list is shorter is because I bundled games of the same series together.
Dardan Sandiego said:
I feel like the lines between home console and handheld series started blurring with the 3DS already, at least as far as some series are concerned. I wouldn’t know where to put Fire Emblem for example. But it’s true that some handheld series are weirdly missing, especially because they require less resources than their bigger stuff.
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This is also true. I'd personally qualify FE3H as a home console release due to the production values taking a huge jump from Fates, while Kirby is muddier.
 
MusicProposition said:
As a fan of mostly Mario (2D/3D, Kart and the RPGs) and DK these last few years weren’t really for me. I appreciate that Nintendo does a lot for other franchises though and I‘m pretty sure EPD will soon be back on the cards with some surprises.
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One thing that's always going to be difficult to achieve is franchise/genre balance. Broadly, I think they do a good job of this; but it's very easy for particular series and genres to fall through the cracks, especially if there are unknown amounts of development disruption behind the scenes. Donkey Kong in particular has really been short-changed in the last decade, and we've had relatively few new platforming games from Nintendo so far on Switch (I count Super Mario Odyssey, Kirby Star Allies, Yoshi's Crafted World, Super Mario Maker 2, and Kirby and the Forgotten Land).

The weird thing is we're getting to the point where multiple new platformers could easily happen in the near future: 3D Kirby this year, and EPD 8 and 10 working on 3 games between them, and Good-Feel presumably either continuing with Yoshi, or perhaps working on Wario Land.
 
For people looking for games to play, both Blossom Tales 2 and Cursed to Golf come out this week on Switch and look cool. Blossom Tales is a fairly decent Zelda Link To The Past-like if you haven’t played it. Pretty excited about the sequel.
 
Red Monster said:
Kirby and Arceus are pretty much the only two games I've liked from Nintendo this year. Switch Sports was fun, but it got dropped quickly.
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Well it's pretty similar for me. Though I've also been playing a lot of Mario Kart due to the dlc. And a bunch of Indies too, as usual.
 
Only things I'm expecting this week are:
  • Library updates for one of the NSO apps
  • Indie World
  • KIRBY

Dardan Sandiego said:
NintendoLife really screwed the pooch with that disingenuous article. There was a poster (who has since been permed) who kept posting it without providing any context whatsoever.
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Talking Points are their opinion pieces though right? Usually I just ignore those, especially when they have a spicy headline.

Ojoloco said:


Direct pre TGS week?
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Depends on how you parse "about three weeks", "next month". That would put it the week of Splatoon 3. I don't think they tend to do Directs right before a tentpole release.

Raccoon said:
I think this week is probably out of the running for an Indie World because Kirb is out on Wednesday

next week for sure though
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I really want you to be wrong, but I also really want you to be right since I'm on vacation half of this week :LOL:
 
shoptroll said:
Depends on how you parse "about three weeks", "next month". That would put it the week of Splatoon 3. I don't think they tend to do Directs right before a tentpole release.
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This year Splatoon 3 is in the pre-Tokyo Game Show week, which is Nintendo's preferred September Direct spot the entirety of the time Switch has been on the market. I think that's currently the likeliest week for a Direct.
 
MisterSpo said:
This year Splatoon 3 is in the pre-Tokyo Game Show week, which is Nintendo's preferred September Direct spot the entirety of the time Switch has been on the market. I think that's currently the likeliest week for a Direct.
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There goes Miyamoto flipping the table again and tossing out all the patterns
 
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Dardan Sandiego said:
I feel like the lines between home console and handheld series started blurring with the 3DS already, at least as far as some series are concerned. I wouldn’t know where to put Fire Emblem for example. But it’s true that some handheld series are weirdly missing, especially because they require less resources than their bigger stuff.
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The difference between console FE and handheld FE is negligible, it's also why I find this kinda discussion ultimately really silly. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Kirby, Fire Emblem, and Mario Kart just to name a few have all had mainline entries designed for the handheld consoles that didn't feel compromised. Heck for some of those franchises people would argue a handheld entry is the definitive title in that series.
 
I've seen a lot of people complaining about the lack of handheld series on Switch but honestly what is missing at this point?

Pokemon? Check
Fire Emblem? Check
Kirby? Check
Luigi's Mansion? Check
Animal Crossing? Check
3D Mario? Check
2D Zelda? Check
Wario Ware? Check
Smash Bros? Check
Paper Mario? Check

These are all series that appeared on the 3DS. I guess Mario and Luigi are missing. And maybe a new Kid Icarus game is you consider that more than just a one off. There's not much missing. Many of these "handheld series" have console counterparts so on a hybrid console, the devs are going to focus on more console level productions. They're not going to make Kirby Console Version and Kirby Handheld Version. Not to mention that jumping from the 3DS to the Switch is a big leap so devs aren't going to be able to pump out games as quickly as they used to.

When I think of the lack of handheld series, I think it's from the lack of support from third parties. I'm thinking of Sega and Atlus in particular. We haven't had a bunch of Sonic games and a glut of Atlus RPGs that were on the 3DS. I think Square has done a decent job if you see the HD-2D games as handheld experiences plus Bravely Default II. But there are some handheld specific handheld series that they haven't brought over yet.
 
HockeyBird said:
I've seen a lot of people complaining about the lack of handheld series on Switch but honestly what is missing at this point?
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The answer will always be Wario Land. At least until Nintendo makes another one. :p

I know it's not as popular as those series you listed, and that historical importance does not matter when it comes to deciding which project to fund, but Wario Land is historically the quintessential Nintendo portable series. Its appearance pretty much marks the moment when Nintendo figured out handheld games didn't have to be lesser versions of console titles. They could be their own thing, and it was by following that path that Nintendo came to dominate that market.

Man, I love Wario Land.
 
HockeyBird said:
I've seen a lot of people complaining about the lack of handheld series on Switch but honestly what is missing at this point?

Pokemon? Check
Fire Emblem? Check
Kirby? Check
Luigi's Mansion? Check
Animal Crossing? Check
3D Mario? Check
2D Zelda? Check
Wario Ware? Check
Smash Bros? Check
Paper Mario? Check

These are all series that appeared on the 3DS. I guess Mario and Luigi are missing. And maybe a new Kid Icarus game is you consider that more than just a one off. There's not much missing. Many of these "handheld series" have console counterparts so on a hybrid console, the devs are going to focus on more console level productions. They're not going to make Kirby Console Version and Kirby Handheld Version. Not to mention that jumping from the 3DS to the Switch is a big leap so devs aren't going to be able to pump out games as quickly as they used to.

When I think of the lack of handheld series, I think it's from the lack of support from third parties. I'm thinking of Sega and Atlus in particular. We haven't had a bunch of Sonic games and a glut of Atlus RPGs that were on the 3DS. I think Square has done a decent job if you see the HD-2D games as handheld experiences plus Bravely Default II. But there are some handheld specific handheld series that they haven't brought over yet.
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2D Zelda? One remake of a 20 year old game and it's basically 1:1 with some control/ux issues fixed. I'm not saying it 'doesn't count' as an installment, but the fact is that there hasn't been a new fresh 2D singleplayer Zelda since 2013.

edit: And I wouldn't count Animal Crossing as a handheld title. It only skipped the Wii U but it has been on every other home console since its launch.
 
eli said:
2D Zelda? One remake of a 20 year old game and it's basically 1:1 with some control/ux issues fixed. I'm not saying it 'doesn't count' as an installment, but the fact is that there hasn't been a new fresh 2D singleplayer Zelda since 2013.

edit: And I wouldn't count Animal Crossing as a handheld title. It only skipped the Wii U but it has been on every other home console since its launch.
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Triforce Heroes cries in 2015
 
eli said:
2D Zelda? One remake of a 20 year old game and it's basically 1:1 with some control/ux issues fixed. I'm not saying it 'doesn't count' as an installment, but the fact is that there hasn't been a new fresh 2D singleplayer Zelda since 2013.

edit: And I wouldn't count Animal Crossing as a handheld title. It only skipped the Wii U but it has been on every other home console since its launch.
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A 2D Zelda is still a 2D Zelda even if it's a remake. And the game was rebuilt in an entirely new engine. It wasn't a copy and paste job...

And we're still likely to get another 2D Zelda game on Switch, whether it's another remake or a brand new one.
 
HockeyBird said:
A 2D Zelda is still a 2D Zelda even if it's a remake. And the game was rebuilt in an entirely new engine. It wasn't a copy and paste job...

And we're still likely to get another 2D Zelda game on Switch, whether it's another remake or a brand new one.
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So if every new release was a remake you'd be happy?
Because I've been a Zelda fan since day one and the novelty of some new graphics for a game I already played quickly wears off.
 
It says that the fire happened on a third floor so we at least know that Pikmin 4 or new 2D Mario are on first and second floor, since Miyamoto has all the code for Pikmin 4 on his flash drive that would be a big shame. I have no idea whats on the third floor, it could be a stinky horse.


floor12.png
 
eli said:
So if every new release was a remake you'd be happy?
Because I've been a Zelda fan since day one and the novelty of some new graphics for a game I already played quickly wears off.
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That's really a problem for us gaming boomers, for millions Link's Awakening remake was a new Zelda experience, probably their first after Breath of the Wild.
 
If all future games being remakes is what it takes to get a Baten Kaitos 1 + 2 remake/remaster ... then so be it.
 
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eli said:
So if every new release was a remake you'd be happy?
Because I've been a Zelda fan since day one and the novelty of some new graphics for a game I already played quickly wears off.
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When did I say that I would be happy with just remakes? I'd like for you to point out where I said this.

I was merely listing the "handheld series" that have it on to the Switch and yes there has been a 2D Zelda game on the Switch even if it was a remake. And if rumors are to be believed, the remake was originally proposed for the 3DS. So the fits the qualification of a "handheld series" being on Switch.
 
LukasManak22 said:
It says that the fire happened on a third floor so we at least know that Pikmin 4 or new 2D Mario are on first and second floor, since Miyamoto has all the code for Pikmin 4 on his flash drive that would be a big shame. I have no idea whats on the third floor, it could be a stinky horse.


floor12.png
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So it was an "accidental" fire to get rid of Stinky Horse for good? I guess that's one way to answer the question of "What do we do with this game?"
 
I'd be curious to see what they could do with a new 2D Zelda on Switch or Switch 2 hardware but I'm not exactly fiending for it, mainly because I'd like EPD3 and Grezzo to work on non-Zelda stuff as well.
 
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Earthbounder said:
So it was an "accidental" fire to get rid of Stinky Horse for good? I guess that's one way to answer the question of "What do we do with this game?"
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We shouldn't make fun of this serious event but I just can't help and support this theory. The higher ups of EPD 4 just did it, little did they know that Miyamoto has all the source codes for all of the EPD games in his smart fitness band. Stinky horse isn't going anywhere, it's here to stay and please us.
 
HockeyBird said:
I've seen a lot of people complaining about the lack of handheld series on Switch but honestly what is missing at this point?
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Fossil Fighters :LOL:

HockeyBird said:
When I think of the lack of handheld series, I think it's from the lack of support from third parties. I'm thinking of Sega and Atlus in particular.
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Aside from SMT IV + Apocalypse and the EO team's output, most of Atlus's output was remakes or publishing games from Cattle Call

Seriously, what on earth happened with the EO team?
 
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HockeyBird said:
When did I say that I would be happy with just remakes? I'd like for you to point out where I said this.

I was merely listing the "handheld series" that have it on to the Switch and yes there has been a 2D Zelda game on the Switch even if it was a remake. And if rumors are to be believed, the remake was originally proposed for the 3DS. So the fits the qualification of a "handheld series" being on Switch.
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You're saying people shouldn't complain because there isn't a 2D Zelda missing on Switch, but there's a big glaring 'New 2D Zelda' shaped hole in its line-up.
I'd add a New 2D Mario in there too, and a Mario (&Luigi) RPG that isn't Paper Mario.

Plus, I think you're kinda missing the point of 'handheld games' on Switch. At least, when I talk about missing that specific gamefeel is the experimental games by Nintendo and third parties. A Detective Pikachu, Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland, Pocket Card Jockey, GTA: Chinatown Wars, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Electroplankton, Project Rub, Nintendogs and loads and loads more that share that feel of 'i haven't played this before but it makes so much sense' that was so abundant on the DS and 3DS.
 
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