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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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ReddDreadtheLead said:
him??

AcaRm.jpg




;)
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lol, go take this yeah from me.
Soralink91 said:
We are in an interesting time, Nintendo has never been this secretive of a new generation before. Usually we have a codename and a general release window well in advanced. My only two theories on why this cycle is different is because the Switch is still selling so well with no reason to stifle that momentum with a switch 2 announcement, or new gen hardware is further out than we think. No matter what I do believe 2024 will be the year for an announcement, hopefully sooner rather than later.
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As multiple people mentioned, this is also the first time Nintendo has only had one platform in the market. It's a critical position for them, though I do find interesting how NV2 ended up leaking the actual hardware from hell and back but we still don't know a single thing about the software, cryptic confirmations of third party games aside. They must be cooking good for so much secretism out there.

Plus, it might be important to remember every single studio that has gotten a hold of this thing has praised it like there's no tomorrow too, Nate himself utilizing the words "delightful" and "impressive" to describe the insider reception. Even graphic guys like Digital Foundry have openly expressed their excitement for it, going as far as claiming Nintendo has surpassed all of their expectations so far. Last time I heard this amount of praise for an unreleased system, it was the PS5...

Like, the hype's real people, one hell of a next gen is coming.
 
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darthdiablo said:
Do we think they're gradually moving to more generic Switch 1 vs 2-agnostic list of environment variables - ie: NnBinLogs as opposed to NxBinLogs? So that way they can push system updates to both Switch 1 and Switch 2 without too much trouble.

Otherwise I see no reason to make changes like the NnBinlogs if Switch 2 is going to have its own, completely separate list of system environment variables
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The fact that we've been seeing changes obviously meant for Switch 2 at all suggests that Nintendo intends to use the same OS for both systems and will likely update the firmware more or less in lock step until Switch gets downgraded to true EoL status.

It's important to note that this does not mean they'll use exactly the same firmware images or even look the same to the user. In various places, only the relevant code will be included via compile time configuration (this is actually part of how we can tell that something's going on, there appear to be a bunch of stubbed syscall indexes that have been skipped over in a way that suggests they do have an implementation that's being excluded from Switch builds) and the shell (basically the UI) is just one component of the OS which it would be fairly simple to swap out. The core OS will be shared, but they won't share literally everything.
 
I expect the memory footprint to remain relatively similar or the same. So, about a GB or so.

So 7/11/15GB for the system (which is a lot for this device bracket)
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
I expect the memory footprint to remain relatively similar or the same. So, about a GB or so.

So 7/11/15GB for the system (which is a lot for this device bracket)
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I foresee memory footprint for the OS increasing slightly. longer/higher quality video recording and more (but not much more) would make the user experience much better. at least 1.5GB this time, up to 2GB
 
Pokemaniac said:
The fact that we've been seeing changes obviously meant for Switch 2 at all suggests that Nintendo intends to use the same OS for both systems and will likely update the firmware more or less in lock step until Switch gets downgraded to true EoL status.

It's important to note that this does not mean they'll use exactly the same firmware images or even look the same to the user. In various places, only the relevant code will be included via compile time configuration (this is actually part of how we can tell that something's going on, there appear to be a bunch of stubbed syscall indexes that have been skipped over in a way that suggests they do have an implementation that's being excluded from Switch builds) and the shell (basically the UI) is just one component of the OS which it would be fairly simple to swap out. The core OS will be shared, but they won't share literally everything.
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I don't think the shell will change much other than:

The icons to access the additional features.
Adjustments to make use of the higher resolution (smaller icons, perhaps more rows).
 
The lede being buried here - that I don't think anyone in this thread is overlooking, more for the casual folks outside Famiboards sphere:

Not that it was ever much of a doubt for a long time, but the changes visible in 17.0.0 system update is additional strong evidence that Switch 2 has BC.
 
darthdiablo said:
The lede being buried here (that I don't think anyone in this thread is overlooking, but maybe for people outside the thread):

Not that it was ever much of a doubt for a long time, but the changes visible in 17.0.0 system update is additional strong evidence that Switch 2 has BC.
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I think it's more strong evidence of Drake being built off of the Switch. it doesn't inherently imply BC since this is OS level stuff as far as I know
 
darthdiablo said:
The lede being buried here - that I don't think anyone in this thread is overlooking, more for the casual folks outside Famiboards sphere:

Not that it was ever much of a doubt for a long time, but the changes visible in 17.0.0 system update is additional strong evidence that Switch 2 has BC.
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Whats the latest ?
 
Thraktor said:
I think we can safely say Switch 2 won't have a completely separate set of system settings, as most of the functionality would be the same across the two consoles, and it would just add complexity for complexity's sake. From Nintendo's point of view, they'll want to keep the code as close as possible between the Switch and Switch 2 builds of the OS, as it makes it easier to manage going forward, particularly if they continue supporting the original Switch for a few more years.

All the actual Switch 2 related code will be kept in a separate repo, or #ifdef'd or otherwise kept from being included in the code being distributed to Switch users. So we're not going to find settings for Switch 2's super-secret new features, but in some cases existing code may need to be tweaked to support changes from Switch to Switch 2, and those tweaks will find their way to public updates. These are typically only going provide us some vague hints, and I don't think Nintendo particularly cares that anyone might speculate on the choice of touch screen controller ICs based on a configuration setting name change, but there may be some slightly interesting stuff that squeaks through.
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I think we can be fairly confident the core OS, at least, is in a single repo peppered with ifdefs based on the empirical evidence. As the SDK seems fairly tightly coupled, it is likely similarly positioned.
darthdiablo said:
The lede being buried here - that I don't think anyone in this thread is overlooking, more for the casual folks outside Famiboards sphere:

Not that it was ever much of a doubt for a long time, but the changes visible in 17.0.0 system update is additional strong evidence that Switch 2 has BC.
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It is a potential avenue towards BC, but it doesn't really tell us what Nintendo's plans are in and of itself.
Concernt said:
I don't think the shell will change much other than:

The icons to access the additional features.
Adjustments to make use of the higher resolution (smaller icons, perhaps more rows).
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They certainly could just keep going with what they already have and tweak it to add new features and support the new handheld resolution, but we don't really have any hard evidence one way or the other. It's possible they may want to shake things up a bit for branding purposes, for example.
 
monkeygotyou said:

Nintendo Switch 2 Pro Controller leaked in Super Mario Wonder ad

The Nintendo Switch 2 pro controller has been leaked in a new add for the exclusive game Super Mario Bros Wonder.
stealthoptional.com stealthoptional.com

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This is a certified "Idk, maybe?" moment.

I believe the Joycon and Dock images are promos we haven't seen before so it could just be an artist making an original image and making it look weird. It doesn't look like an old pro controller, but it doesn't look substantially different outside of the outline around the sticks and buttons.

Very strange mock-up though.
 
lemonfresh said:
Compared to switch 1 how long do you guys think it will take switch 2 to get emulated on pc? I think with emulators for switch 1 there was one running like less than a year after switch's release with Mario odyssey. Wonder if it will take longer if switch 2 is more advanced.
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I think much longer than with the Nintendo Switch. I think Drake's likely to inherit the Platform Security Controller (PSC) from Orin (p. 19), which interestingly uses a RISC-V core (p. 3). And LiC found mentions of PSC on system update 17.0.0.

Therefore, I think Nintendo's new hardware can't be hacked without resorting to hardware modding. And even so, hardware modding Nintendo's new hardware doesn't guarantee being easily able to hack Nintendo's new hardware afterwards thanks to the PSC.
 
SoldierDelta said:
This is a certified "Idk, maybe?" moment.

I believe the Joycon and Dock images are promos we haven't seen before so it could just be an artist making an original image and making it look weird. It doesn't look like an old pro controller, but it doesn't look substantially different outside of the outline around the sticks and buttons.

Very strange mock-up though.
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This is a rendering of a demo kiosk. That's what they look like. A pair of joy-cons on the right, a white dock in the middle in a lucite case, and a pro controller on the left with a hook on top to tether it to the kiosk, with the LCD behind it, and the the LCD has this weird flag that looks like a Joy-Con sliding in with info about the game.

 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Would a port studio rather turn off Lumen or drop the resolution to 480p DLSS’d to 4K to get it running on the Switch 2?

It’s possible that UE5 games that target the Switch 2 from the beginning just don’t use Nanite or Lumen at all on any platform as their relative cost is too high.
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You may be exaggerating but you can't DLSS from 480 to 4k...

It's a case by case basis
If I were in charge of a project I would do what it takes to not have two separate development pipelines.
It really is all about optimizations, sure drop resolution, but also drop RT quality, reduce other things that bog down the game.
I worked on a 3rd party switch version of a game and it was more an optimization project than a development project. Resolution is not the only lever you have to pull... lumen itself can be optimized, RT also isn't the only thing that impacts performance.

It's a delicate balancing act between visuals, performance and power draw.
So from experience... a game running on PS5 doesn't quite mean it is actually being smart behind the scenes... I was on a project where on PS5 and PC (and series') it was loading to memory EVERY animation in a few systems... I'm talking THOUSANDS of files always loaded to memory, even if they never are used, they're always there.
On switch and ps4 that was optimized to only load files that are actually being used which saved a massive chunk of memory.I mean we're talking shoving 14GB of assets into 3.2GB, so like saving hundreds of MB to 1GB of memory at all times is a game changer. Now in a perfect world it would have been that way from the start... but nope. Some devs just tend to throw stuff at the PS5 and if it runs then fine... so It shipped that way on PS5. So a game running in a poorly optimized condition on one system does not mean it will be that way on other systems.
Another thing to consider are the optimizations themselves... If a dev has the time and money they will do whatever it takes to find that balance.
So in the example you gave (1080p on PS5)... Then I would look into optimizing whatever I can to get this running acceptably on "lesser" hardware.
Some things to consider:
RT cores MAY provide some level of optimization already albeit not as fully fledged as a high end GPU obviously. But it may be enough to say, reduce RT resolution a bit and maybe that works, maybe there's other settings that could be reduced there as well
In trying to find the balance maybe reducing certain texture sizes may be warranted
Resolution may be reduced to enhance performance at the lowest my guess would be 540 in handheld and 720 in docked if possible... if that's not possible with optimizations then you may have to ask if it's even worth it.
DLSS can mask the loss in resolution 540>1080 in handheld 1080>4k docked. in theory of course... there's other configurations to mess with.
I mentioned all this before in an earlier post but on switch:

Changing out volumetric skies for skyboxes
Reducing poly count/heavily managing LOD assets
Reducing shader complexity
Shrinking/compressing textures
Babysitting drawcalls on everything
Juggling CPU threads
Retargeting animation to a completely different rig than other platforms
Managing asset/level streaming

are all things that can be optimized and be adjusted to increase performance. On the next system not all this stuff would need to be adjusted... and not nearly as aggressively too. I think my entire point is there are options. And I don't think it would be as dire as needing to drop all the way to 480p to make it work.
(and hey... even 480 could be DLSS'd to 960p which is roughly where it was in your PS5 example)
 
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lemonfresh said:
Compared to switch 1 how long do you guys think it will take switch 2 to get emulated on pc? I think with emulators for switch 1 there was one running like less than a year after switch's release with Mario odyssey. Wonder if it will take longer if switch 2 is more advanced.
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first week of it launch, everyone will be emulating/pirating the console.
 
oldpuck said:
This is a rendering of a demo kiosk. That's what they look like. A pair of joy-cons on the right, a white dock in the middle in a lucite case, and a pro controller on the left with a hook on top to tether it to the kiosk, with the LCD behind it, and the the LCD has this weird flag that looks like a Joy-Con sliding in with info about the game.

Click to expand...

I'm going to take your word on this. I don't see demo kiosks in the UK anymore, so I genuinely couldn't comment.
 
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lemonfresh said:
Compared to switch 1 how long do you guys think it will take switch 2 to get emulated on pc? I think with emulators for switch 1 there was one running like less than a year after switch's release with Mario odyssey. Wonder if it will take longer if switch 2 is more advanced.
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From SciresM (atmosphere main dev) it has the potential to never happen.

Unless Nvidia screw something again.
 
Giancarlo said:
first week of it launch, everyone will be emulating/pirating the console.
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HAHAHAHAHAHA I laughed, must confess

lemonfresh said:
Compared to switch 1 how long do you guys think it will take switch 2 to get emulated on pc? I think with emulators for switch 1 there was one running like less than a year after switch's release with Mario odyssey. Wonder if it will take longer if switch 2 is more advanced.
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Considering all the scenarios and what we know / Nintendo is implementing recently with their Switch Firmwares = Maybe NEVER
 
monkeygotyou said:

Nintendo Switch 2 Pro Controller leaked in Super Mario Wonder ad

The Nintendo Switch 2 pro controller has been leaked in a new add for the exclusive game Super Mario Bros Wonder.
stealthoptional.com stealthoptional.com

Click to expand...

Given the awfully off-model Switch logo I wouldn't be surprised if this is just an intern graphic designer fucking up the design of the Switch pro controller badly, but the fact that it looks so defined makes me curious. Maybe it's a combination of both - the entire graphic looks incredibly unprofessional, but the bit with the dock and joycons looks like it was just ripped from internal stock assets. Maybe this controller was also ripped from stock assets and the designer pulled the wrong asset? It does look like something Nintendo would ship, like an intermediate controller between the joycons and the pro controller. Might be something for Switch 1?
 
Tron1 said:
People are really reaching for switch 2 info. I wish we can get an announcement already. This is ridiculous.
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The lack of any communication from Nintendo compared to how they've treat next-gen systems in the past has always slightly concerned me but now it's really hitting me. Yes NX was a different situation but even their older consoles were announced a year in advance usually. I really wish I wasn't asking this but are we actually going to see this thing launch next year?
 
Individualised said:
The lack of any communication from Nintendo compared to how they've treat next-gen systems in the past has always slightly concerned me but now it's really hitting me. Yes NX was a different situation but even their older consoles were announced a year in advance usually. I really wish I wasn't asking this but are we actually going to see this thing launch next year?
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is not lack of comunication, but Nintendo worrying about the holidays sales of Switch and they commitement to suport the console until march of 2025, as show by Shuntaro Furukawa
 
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oldpuck said:
This is a rendering of a demo kiosk. That's what they look like. A pair of joy-cons on the right, a white dock in the middle in a lucite case, and a pro controller on the left with a hook on top to tether it to the kiosk, with the LCD behind it, and the the LCD has this weird flag that looks like a Joy-Con sliding in with info about the game.

Click to expand...

Of course that's what it is, but they did do a very off-model rendering of the Pro Controller. And they actually screwed up the Switch logo too, which is especially funny since you'd think you would just copy-paste the official logo instead of redrawing it.

why.png
 
lemonfresh said:
Compared to switch 1 how long do you guys think it will take switch 2 to get emulated on pc? I think with emulators for switch 1 there was one running like less than a year after switch's release with Mario odyssey. Wonder if it will take longer if switch 2 is more advanced.
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Without any major screwups from Nvidia, it'll be a very slow process.
 
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Tron1 said:
People are really reaching for switch 2 info. I wish we can get an announcement already. This is ridiculous.
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Firmware info is probably as far from a reach as anything we've seen. It's official, verifiable info directly from Nintendo.
 
LiC said:
Of course that's what it is, but they did do a very off-model rendering of the Pro Controller. And they actually screwed up the Switch logo too, which is especially funny since you'd think you would just copy-paste the official logo instead of redrawing it.

why.png
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My local toy store still advertises Nintendo Switch Online with "More Games, More Feathers, More Fun!"

Which is technically true on account of Super Mario World, but still quite funny.

I think the only conclusion that can be made is that people aren't paid enough to produce ad copy sometimes.
 
It's very clearly a low-effort graphic just for the tweet, but that controller is clearly based on something, it's not just a bad drawing of a Pro Controller. It has the handles of the joycon grip. I feel like this is the result of an intern or someone in marketing who is out of touch with Nintendo's products pulling up the wrong image to base their drawing on, because the design is very clearly defined. Doesn't mean it's Switch 2 exactly, I don't think whoever is responsible behind this would have access to Switch 2 stuff yet. Could be an older unreleased controller, maybe an early variant of the Switch 1 pro controller or something to do with INDY.
 
Mobius said:
From SciresM (atmosphere main dev) it has the potential to never happen.

Unless Nvidia screw something again.
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Yeah. Pretty much the main reason why the Switch got hacked was because of the fumble done with v1 along with all the public documentation involving ReCovery Mode meant for the Shield TV. Had it not been for that, the hackers (SciresM specifically?) have said they may still have been trying to find a good entry, as they consider the OS to be that secure. The hardware mods, as far as I know, have all had their origin from the initial fumble.
 
Individualised said:
It's very clearly a low-effort graphic just for the tweet, but that controller is clearly based on something, it's not just a bad drawing of a Pro Controller. It has the handles of the joycon grip. I feel like this is the result of an intern or someone in marketing who is out of touch with Nintendo's products pulling up the wrong image to base their drawing on, because the design is very clearly defined. Doesn't mean it's Switch 2 exactly, I don't think whoever is responsible behind this would have access to Switch 2 stuff yet. Could be an older unreleased controller, maybe an early variant of the Switch 1 pro controller or something to do with INDY.
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The controller was someone doing a pro controller from memory with a demo kiosk clip. Look at the buttons: it wasn't imported, it was mocked up (poorly) along with the rest of the kiosk, down to the bad Nintendo Switch logo.
 
Individualised said:
It's very clearly a low-effort graphic just for the tweet, but that controller is clearly based on something, it's not just a bad drawing of a Pro Controller. It has the handles of the joycon grip. I feel like this is the result of an intern or someone in marketing who is out of touch with Nintendo's products pulling up the wrong image to base their drawing on, because the design is very clearly defined. Doesn't mean it's Switch 2 exactly, I don't think whoever is responsible behind this would have access to Switch 2 stuff yet. Could be an older unreleased controller, maybe an early variant of the Switch 1 pro controller or something to do with INDY.
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wii_ctl_classic_pro_black.jpg


poor guy pulled up the wii pro controller
 
darthdiablo said:
Somehow I don't remember this one at all.. wow.
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It was a relatively late iteration on the Wii Classic Controller. It didn't have any additional features and wasn't required for any games, it just made the Classic Controller more comfortable.

It was also the development kit controller for Nintendo Switch until like, basically 2021.
 
Something to note, in Metro Exodus, the fully ray traced enhanced edition actually runs BETTER than the standard edition on rt supported hardware (Current gen consoles and pc). What metro does thats specifically important is, all the old lighting is gone! poof! Its ALL ray-traced. A lot of games plop ray-tracing on top of existing lighting and thats how you end up with massive framerate issues.
mjayer said:
Super-Nintendo-Switch.jpg
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You know I really like this design, its a work of art. Actually very close to how I imagined the console would look like in my head lmao. The n64 d-pad buttons are a nice touch too!
 
SDEV_Kit.png

SDEV complete kit jumpscare.

I find it funny how the "stand" for the SDEV kit is just a folded bit of cardboard, and that the development board inside is powered by a Wii U power supply. There's just so much fun little things here, like how "Nintendo Switch" was nowhere to be seen (unlike EDEV units), it came with the Joy-Con Charging Grip and not the normal one, it doesn't even HAVE Joy-Con rails on the console. Or the super slim dock!

It makes me wonder what the NG's equivalent of SDEV is. We know what the Switch's eaaarly kits were (butchered Wii Us plumbed into ARM CPUs spread on a piece of plywood. Terrifying.).

I think the kits have probably been something like-
SDK for Ampere desktop chips.
Standard Orin testbed with enclosure.
SDEV-like unit with final screen dimensions but lots of oddities, like being larger, using wired controllers.

The only real rumour we've heard is that NG Switch kits use a wired Nintendo Switch Pro Controller rather than a Wii Classic Controller Pro. Which would líne up with this.

I wonder if T239 adapter pedestal is the development kit's dock...
 
ILikeFeet said:
I foresee memory footprint for the OS increasing slightly. longer/higher quality video recording and more (but not much more) would make the user experience much better. at least 1.5GB this time, up to 2GB
Click to expand...
I don’t think the size increase would be that dramatic, maybe 1.5GB the most, 1.2GB the least, up from the 800MB of the current.
 
Individualised said:
It's very clearly a low-effort graphic just for the tweet, but that controller is clearly based on something, it's not just a bad drawing of a Pro Controller. It has the handles of the joycon grip. I feel like this is the result of an intern or someone in marketing who is out of touch with Nintendo's products pulling up the wrong image to base their drawing on, because the design is very clearly defined. Doesn't mean it's Switch 2 exactly, I don't think whoever is responsible behind this would have access to Switch 2 stuff yet. Could be an older unreleased controller, maybe an early variant of the Switch 1 pro controller or something to do with INDY.
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It's based on the harness that keeps the controller attached to the kiosk. It's just a drawing of a Switch demo kiosk.
 
Concernt said:
SDEV_Kit.png

SDEV complete kit jumpscare.

I find it funny how the "stand" for the SDEV kit is just a folded bit of cardboard, and that the development board inside is powered by a Wii U power supply. There's just so much fun little things here, like how "Nintendo Switch" was nowhere to be seen (unlike EDEV units), it came with the Joy-Con Charging Grip and not the normal one, it doesn't even HAVE Joy-Con rails on the console. Or the super slim dock!

It makes me wonder what the NG's equivalent of SDEV is. We know what the Switch's eaaarly kits were (butchered Wii Us plumbed into ARM CPUs spread on a piece of plywood. Terrifying.).

I think the kits have probably been something like-
SDK for Ampere desktop chips.
Standard Orin testbed with enclosure.
SDEV-like unit with final screen dimensions but lots of oddities, like being larger, using wired controllers.

The only real rumour we've heard is that NG Switch kits use a wired Nintendo Switch Pro Controller rather than a Wii Classic Controller Pro. Which would líne up with this.

I wonder if T239 adapter pedestal is the development kit's dock...
Click to expand...
Funny, I was also thinking of "adaptor pedestal" while reading your comment.
 
Hermii said:
I think he was referring to the controller thing.
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Oh, weird. I feel like I've kept decent track of this thread but I'm not sure what the controller thing refers to.

Oh! Just scrolled up. Yeah I didn't even register that as anything anyone could think was a leak so I guess it didn't even get filed into my brain.
 
Individualised said:
The lack of any communication from Nintendo compared to how they've treat next-gen systems in the past has always slightly concerned me but now it's really hitting me. Yes NX was a different situation but even their older consoles were announced a year in advance usually. I really wish I wasn't asking this but are we actually going to see this thing launch next year?
Click to expand...
No, it’ll launch in 2099
 
lemonfresh said:
Compared to switch 1 how long do you guys think it will take switch 2 to get emulated on pc? I think with emulators for switch 1 there was one running like less than a year after switch's release with Mario odyssey. Wonder if it will take longer if switch 2 is more advanced.
Click to expand...
side eye emoji
 
Question for you guys, is VRR something that requires specific hardware in order to be supported? It is a feature that has become more and more common in TV's, even bargain TV's, but the game console must support VRR in order for it to work. Switch does not support VRR, but could it if Nintendo wanted to include support it through a firmware update? Or does it need to be built into the hardware? I am really hoping that SNG support VRR and it really should as it has become commonplace and makes a big difference for games not quite hitting the 60fps target. In portable play, hopefully Nintendo supports 40fps as an option like Steam Deck. Hell, maybe VRR will even work in portable mode if its supported?
 
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