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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Cybergatuno said:
A detail that I find odd ...

VGC mentioned the demos were "running on target specs for its next console" and not on final hardware.

If t239 was tapped out over a year ago, why would they simulate it?
What are those devkits made of?
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My guess is that the early dev kits that Nintendo told early/trusted partners to use would have been 16GB Orin NXs and they told the devs to target something around 8-10GB RAM usage when using those early dev kits.
 
While DLSS isn't a magic bullet or anything, having it substantially helps the system immensely. Especially if it's able to be updated in the future via software. This allows some parity between the Switch 2 and next-gen in some way. Which is especially useful for getting some "impossible ports". That alone makes the system exciting.
 
Thinking about it, Nintendo could market a CF Express ord SD Express cards not as a "cheap memory upgrade" but as a user-replaceable system drive. The system could ship with, lets say, a 128GB card as system drive and a cheap UHS reader. If a game needs the speed of the express drive then it would only allow the installation on the "system drive".

From Nintendo's POV, casuals users would be fine with the included storage + cartridges + cheap SD cards and Pro users would have the option to upgrading the system drive to whatever they are willing to spend. And this upgrade would be akin of changing the system drive on the Steam Deck and Ally, so a high price is expected already.

The main drawbacks would be security, but this might be solved by having the OS on a different drive, and of course cost of having yet another card reader, the system card and and the cost of an additional OS drive if they go for that option.

What do you guys think?
 
NateDrake said:
Yes.

And if it has details those reports did not... that would mean it includes stuff besides that.
Click to expand...
Well the current list of details at the moment/the timeline for the event is
  • Nintendo has a closed-door (Box) meeting at Gamescom where they specifically invited developersto show them Tech Demos running on representative hardware for Switch 2.
    • Representative hardware being pretty much being a security/cost/supply measure as all devkits are most likely exclusively in the hands of actual developers who are developing for it. So, a devkit proper at Gamescom would be a waste of that team's time and a security risk.
  • Security for the actual showcasing of the demos (Assumingly running through one of them without the technical deep dive) is rumored to have been lax, potentially allowing some members of press in uninvited.
    • Thus where the rumors of press being shown the demos came from, some/at least one member(s) of press/press adjacent persons were on the floor to see at least one demo. And that info got leaked, which made other devs who would be extremely compromised to leak this as the first-source, more willing to leak. (Guess on my part for how the situation shook out)
    • The wrinkle in this is that there would need to be press allowed in some form at all which is a stretch, And the info there being digestible to them, where this is a developer-focused presentation assumedly. When inviting developers over, you don't want to waste their time, you want them to actually gain something from a showcase, considering this is using their time. Any dev-focused thing has a deep-dive most of the time as it's what the developers are actually there for. A Tech Demo running blindly in isolation is something for consumer press.
    • So my assumed resolving of this is that under the assumption Jez was correct, the above occured with said press member catching/paying attention to the initial playthrough of one of the demos.
  • The Demos were
    • Seemingly an Internal version of BOTW used to demo new technologies (Much like how Nintnedo used WW and TP to demo technologies used in BOTW), the demo running at 4K60FPS (Allegedly using DLSS/with other enhancements?)
      • This Demo likely is to show that Switch 2 is powerful enough to run games that didn't even hit 1080p30/1080p60 way faster and way better than OG Switch. And also, maybe a showcase of streaming features
    • An iteration of the Matrix Awakens/City Demo using DLSS and Fully Enabling RT Effects
      • The Resolve of which being described as comparable to the PS5 by VGC
        • As many here and even VGC in an edit clarify, this doesn't mean the raw power of the system is close to PS5. It just means via its utilization of RT/DLSS it can produce an output that can trade blows with the resolve of the PS5 Iteration of the demo
 
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epicmartin7 said:
While DLSS isn't a magic bullet or anything, having it substantially helps the system immensely. Especially if it's able to be updated in the future via software. This allows some parity between the Switch 2 and next-gen in some way. Which is especially useful for getting some "impossible ports". That alone makes the system exciting.
Click to expand...
Its all very exciting, but it's best to temper expectations
 
Alovon11 said:
Well the current list of details at the moment/the timeline for the event is
  • Nintendo has a closed-door (Box) meeting at Gamescom where they specifically invited developers to show them Tech Demos running on representative hardware for Switch 2.
    • Representative hardware being pretty much being a security/cost/supply measure as all devkits are most likely exclusively in the hands of actual developers who are developing for it. So, a devkit proper at Gamescom would be a waste of that team's time and a security risk.
  • Security for the actual showcasing of the demos (Running through them without the technical deep dive) is rumored to have been lax, potentially allowing some members of press in uninvited.
    • Thus where the rumors of press being shown the demos came from, some/at least one member(s) of press/press adjacent persons were on the floor to see at least one demo. And that info got leaked, which made other devs who would be extremely compromised to leak this as the first-source, more willing to leak. (Guess on my part for how the situation shook out)
  • The Demos were
    • Seemingly an Internal version of BOTW used to demo new technologies (Much like how Nintnedo used WW and TP to demo technologies used in BOTW), the demo running at 4K60FPS (Allegedly using DLSS/with other enhancements?)
      • This Demo likely is to show that Switch 2 is powerful enough to run games that didn't even hit 1080p30/1080p60 way faster and way better than OG Switch. And also, maybe a showcase of streaming features
    • An iteration of the Matrix Awakens/City Demo using DLSS and Fully Enabling RT Effects
      • The Resolve of which being described as comparable to the PS5 by VGC
        • As many here and even VGC in an edit clarify, this doesn't mean the raw power of the system is close to PS5. It just means via its utilization of RT/DLSS it can produce an output that can trade blows with the resolve of the PS5 Iteration of the demo
Click to expand...
I'm aware of what was shared in the reports & I still have details they did not discuss.
 
P4bl0 said:
Do we really need external storage if this thing has 512gb internal storage? What if nintendo goes with a fixed storage this time similar to PS5

Basically we would end installing and uninstalling games
Click to expand...
512GB internal memory, is the celling Nintendo aiming for it next hardware, the maximum they will consider
 
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Alovon11 said:
Security for the actual showcasing of the demos (Running through them without the technical deep dive) is rumored to have been lax, potentially allowing some members of press in uninvited.
Click to expand...

Actually it's fairlyknown for people that were there that the Switch 2 area was guarded by bodyguard and he was checking everyone even the food caterers
 
Man I'm hyped as hell for Nates podcast. I need a Pyoro type character to leak deets from nates private youtube videos instead of Nintendo.

An insider insider.
 
P4bl0 said:
Actually it's fairlyknown for people that were there that the Switch 2 area was guarded by bodyguard and he was checking everyone even the food caterers
Click to expand...
Yet it leaked

This apparent contradiction yet evidence is why I bolded and underlined the words I did.
 
BowserIsMyFather said:
What would the battery life be like? How would they keep it cool? How would they keep the price down so it's a viable mass-market device?
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This is where we need to draw a line on Raw 4K and “Faux K” the device will be doing the latter, not the former.

But also, to paint a picture: many years ago now, there existed a card from Nvidia that was doing max 1080p on a display. It had a TDP of over 200W and that was the GPU alone. 7 years later, Nintendo releases a device that pulls 15W in TV mode and is able to achieve 1080p in a Kart racer.
 
I hope Nate name drops a future (or current) PS5/XBSeries title that he has heard is coming to Switch NG. Or at least, they were having discussions of bring it over.

Though I think that type of info will start leaking in about 6 months.
 
PedroNavajas said:
Thinking about it, Nintendo could market a CF Express ord SD Express cards not as a "cheap memory upgrade" but as a user-replaceable system drive. The system could ship with, lets say, a 128GB card as system drive and a cheap UHS reader. If a game needs the speed of the express drive then it would only allow the installation on the "system drive".

From Nintendo's POV, casuals users would be fine with the included storage + cartridges + cheap SD cards and Pro users would have the option to upgrading the system drive to whatever they are willing to spend. And this upgrade would be akin of changing the system drive on the Steam Deck and Ally, so a high price is expected already.

The main drawbacks would be security, but this might be solved by having the OS on a different drive, and of course cost of having yet another card reader, the system card and and the cost of an additional OS drive if they go for that option.

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
at that point, they might as well just go with 2230 m2 drives. cheaper for everyone since they're already plentiful
 
0
Alovon11 said:
Well the current list of details at the moment/the timeline for the event is
  • Nintendo has a closed-door (Box) meeting at Gamescom where they specifically invited developersto show them Tech Demos running on representative hardware for Switch 2.
    • Representative hardware being pretty much being a security/cost/supply measure as all devkits are most likely exclusively in the hands of actual developers who are developing for it. So, a devkit proper at Gamescom would be a waste of that team's time and a security risk.
  • Security for the actual showcasing of the demos (Running through them without the technical deep dive) is rumored to have been lax, potentially allowing some members of press in uninvited.
    • Thus where the rumors of press being shown the demos came from, some/at least one member(s) of press/press adjacent persons were on the floor to see at least one demo. And that info got leaked, which made other devs who would be extremely compromised to leak this as the first-source, more willing to leak. (Guess on my part for how the situation shook out)
  • The Demos were
    • Seemingly an Internal version of BOTW used to demo new technologies (Much like how Nintnedo used WW and TP to demo technologies used in BOTW), the demo running at 4K60FPS (Allegedly using DLSS/with other enhancements?)
      • This Demo likely is to show that Switch 2 is powerful enough to run games that didn't even hit 1080p30/1080p60 way faster and way better than OG Switch. And also, maybe a showcase of streaming features
    • An iteration of the Matrix Awakens/City Demo using DLSS and Fully Enabling RT Effects
      • The Resolve of which being described as comparable to the PS5 by VGC
        • As many here and even VGC in an edit clarify, this doesn't mean the raw power of the system is close to PS5. It just means via its utilization of RT/DLSS it can produce an output that can trade blows with the resolve of the PS5 Iteration of the demo
Click to expand...
why would nintendo allow such minimal security? I don't buy that
 
qwerp said:
why would nintendo allow such minimal security? I don't buy that
Click to expand...

The security was there, it just leaked because the developers have good relationship with the press, some may have even been tipped for the breaking news

It's not the first time euro gamer or VGC gets exclusive breaking news
 
PedroNavajas said:
I expect Switch 2 to launch with 128-256GB and UHS SD card reader. The Matrix demo, according to what @Thraktor said, would not be able to run on the SD card but Nintendo would not care much and leave third party developers and users to deal with the issue, just like Asus and Valve currently do.
Click to expand...
What is it with people assuming Nintendo is like this, like they do this out of spite
 
I hope they finally go for the OLED (and less storage to save costs, "we" dont really need 512gb)

I know it can be potentially saved for a revision 2-3 after and its a clever marketing decision but...
 
Alovon11 said:
The Demos were
  • Seemingly an Internal version of BOTW used to demo new technologies (Much like how Nintnedo used WW and TP to demo technologies used in BOTW), the demo running at 4K60FPS (Allegedly using DLSS/with other enhancements?)
    • This Demo likely is to show that Switch 2 is powerful enough to run games that didn't even hit 1080p30/1080p60 way faster and way better than OG Switch. And also, maybe a showcase of streaming features
  • An iteration of the Matrix Awakens/City Demo using DLSS and Fully Enabling RT Effects
    • The Resolve of which being described as comparable to the PS5 by VGC
      • As many here and even VGC in an edit clarify, this doesn't mean the raw power of the system is close to PS5. It just means via its utilization of RT/DLSS it can produce an output that can trade blows with the resolve of the PS5 Iteration of the demo
Click to expand...
personally speaking, i always thought the botw demo was used to demonstrate the difference between Switch 1's & Switch 2's powers whereas Matrix demo is shown what the hardware is capable of in general, both specs wise & DLSS wise, as well as showcasing (once again) UE5 in general
 
Alovon11 said:
Yet it leaked

This apparent contradiction yet evidence is why I bolded and underlined the words I did.
Click to expand...
What contradiction? Security could be the tightest ever, but short of erasing people's memories on the way out, no security can prevent people that were supposed to be in there sharing information if they want to.
 
ILikeFeet said:
the simple answer is, they know it will get out. remember, allegedly there were two presentations, but the second one has yet to leak and that was more in depth
Click to expand...

Interesting! I assumed it was just a single presentation.
 
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Could anybody familiar with development for those kind of specs give an overview for what the next large-scale Zelda might look like on the NG? And by that I mean, how dense and detailed can the landscape get before it starts to chug - e.g. the density of trees, plants, wildlife, structures and particle effects in the jungle or a big forest, how many Bokoblins would there need to be running around looking for weapons in their encampments as they throw rocks at you before there's a noticeable frame drop, and could Kakariko Village or Gerudo Town be 3x larger with 3x as many NPCs in it without issue? Also if you were standing on the Great Plateau and using the telescope, how many times further away would Hyrule Castle or Death Mountain need to be before they get an equivalent of that gummy/low res texturing you'd see in Breath of the Wild?
 
ILikeFeet said:
the simple answer is, they know it will get out. remember, allegedly there were two presentations, but the second one has yet to leak and that was more in depth
Click to expand...
First time hearing about a second presentation, do you reckon that one was showing any in-house titles being developed specifically for release on the NG?
 
0
Skittzo said:
There were two tech demos shown, I'm not sure where Feet got that they were two separate presentations. Maybe they just mean there were two demos shown in general?
Click to expand...
two tech demos or two presentatons? maybe I did get confused. I recall someone talking about a more in-depth look at things
 
ILikeFeet said:
two tech demos or two presentatons? maybe I did get confused. I recall someone talking about a more in-depth look at things
Click to expand...
I don't remember hearing that said explicitly. All I thought we knew is that they had the souped up BOTW tech demo and the Matrix UE5 tech demo, I don't remember any discussions about what exactly they talked about with either demo. Just that there were those two demos.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
What contradiction? Security could be the tightest ever, but short of erasing people's memories on the way out, no security can prevent people that were supposed to be in there sharing information if they want to.
Click to expand...
I just find it unlikely that graphical engineers/devs would leak that sort of thing as a first stage thing as it'd pretty much be instant termination.

Versus a press member who has less to loose
 
P4bl0 said:
Actually it's fairlyknown for people that were there that the Switch 2 area was guarded by bodyguard and he was checking everyone even the food caterers
Click to expand...
I mean the Nintendo Stand in the Business Area (A red cube) had inside kinda a meeting zone with little security. There were many Meeting rooms in the back more guarded. Though the Stands of other big publishers looked all this way.

If the Switch 2 Presentation really happened there or in general during the actual convention is kinda hard to imagine because Nintendo literally had the most prime position in the Business Area, like the first thing you see when you enter it and the layout of the stand was not exactly designed like a fortress even from the outside. Sega for example felt like a big blue Prison compared to it.

I imagine that if it actually was in that red box then really at or even slightly before the opening of Gamescom at the Business day on Wednesday. I could enter Gamescom when it opened at 9:00 am and the Business Area was already full of people.

Just to say, I talked with quite some other devs, even about Nintendo, but it was mostly just "I heard this and that" and not worth sharing.
 
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ReddDreadtheLead said:
Focusing on what John said, I wouldn’t say that they have made a lot of efficiency improvements on the Tegras GoG. They are using an off the shelf ARM CPU here and also they are likely on a more efficient node which is doing a lot of the heavy lifting.
Click to expand...
I am guessing we won't know which node it's on till we're able to do a teardown.

Or is that something we can actually deduce once raw numbers get out?
 
Alovon11 said:
I just find it unlikely that graphical engineers/devs would leak that sort of thing as a first stage thing as it'd pretty much be instant termination.

Versus a press member who has less to loose
Click to expand...


It could be just one Dev spilling the beans on Eurogamer/VGC payroll or something, lot of stuff happens behind the scenes
 
YolkFolk said:
“You know, Nate, I could see Switch 2 actually being less powerful than Switch 1…”

Just joking. MVG’s channel is one of my YouTube favourites tbh.
Click to expand...
Lmfao, I read this in his voice. Good stuff.

Seconded, btw, MVG is doing good things on the Youtube.
 
Alovon11 said:
I just find it unlikely that graphical engineers/devs would leak that sort of thing as a first stage thing as it'd pretty much be instant termination.

Versus a press member who has less to loose
Click to expand...
It happens all the time. Presumably, it is hard to get caught, especially if there is a whole audience with you at the presentation.

Many people heard about these reports, so its probably just dev chitter chatter making it way to people in the media and those in the industry.
 
MadMarvainy said:
I am guessing we won't know which node it's on till we're able to do a teardown.

Or is that something we can actually deduce once raw numbers get out?
Click to expand...
It's something we can more or less infer/deduce if Clockspeed of HH/Docked modes are leaked. Otherwise, we would wait until launch for a teardown and see if it's manufactured on TSMC or Samsung fabs and wait until someone like TechInsights did a analysis of the chip (Which can take some time and they don't do analysis for every chip) to know which node it's fabbed. Otherwise, we won't know ever which node it's fabbed on (Or at least it will take quite an while).
 
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MadMarvainy said:
I am guessing we won't know which node it's on till we're able to do a teardown.

Or is that something we can actually deduce once raw numbers get out?
Click to expand...
Yeah, a close to conclusive answer with respect to the process node requires a very detailed analysis of the actual die. (I say close to conclusive since I doubt Nintendo and Nvidia will explicitly disclose which process node was used to fabricate Drake nor will Nintendo and Nvidia explicitly confirm.)
 
P4bl0 said:
It could be just one Dev spilling the beans on Eurogamer/VGC payroll or something, lot of stuff happens behind the scenes
Click to expand...
Yeah, it could be the case, just feel it's a bit much.

To be clear, the post is my speculation to try to resolve the initial leak ahead of Eurogamer/VGC's post as I highly doubt that Jez Cordon/whenever he got his info on it from would have an actual developer contact in that regard. Much less a developer would be inclined to leak something this critical unless Nintendo actually DGAF.

That is predicated off of me trusting devs to not do major leaks like that (Thus why I think that the OG VGC leak before Gamescom about the devkits.etc came from a smaller or late-rollout dev which isn't as highly trusted to keep secrets)

For all I know everything there is wrong and Miyamoto himself leaked it :/
 
Cybergatuno said:
Just for entertainment ...
The Mediatek Dimensity 9400 seems have an Nvidia GPU on 3nm.

www.digitimes.com

MediaTek to adopt Nvidia GPU in flagship mobile chip

MediaTek is expected to integrate an Nvidia GPU into its next-generation flagship mobile processor as early as 2024, according to industry sources.
www.digitimes.com
Click to expand...
That DigiTimes report suggested that MediaTek and Nvidia would collaborate on new SoCs for Windows on Arm notebooks (not smartphones). The same rumor was circulating in Taiwan earlier this year; some even said that Jensen Huang and Rick Tsai would attend a press conference together in May to announce it. That obviously did not materialize, and MediaTek put out an announcement to refute the reports. Although it’s possible that they denied the reports based on technicality, IMHO the rumor doesn’t seem very credible.
 
If Nintendo showed the tech demos in general to almost all big 3rd party studios/publishers there is no way it couldnt leak, devs shown the demo talk about it with other devs and these devs share it to 3rd parties like Eurogamer/VGC it happens all the time.
 
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GigaUltraMoon said:
Could anybody familiar with development for those kind of specs give an overview for what the next large-scale Zelda might look like on the NG? And by that I mean, how dense and detailed can the landscape get before it starts to chug - e.g. the density of trees, plants, wildlife, structures and particle effects in the jungle or a big forest, how many Bokoblins would there need to be running around looking for weapons in their encampments as they throw rocks at you before there's a noticeable frame drop, and could Kakariko Village or Gerudo Town be 3x larger with 3x as many NPCs in it without issue?
Click to expand...

I mean all of this depends on what targets the development team set. People need to understand that no matter the hardware aspects such as graphical fidelity, frame rate, draw distances, world scope, being highly dynamic and interactive all are things that compete for finite computational resources. The development team sets target for all of these and need to make trade offs during development. In Mario odyssey Nintendo prioritizes a locked 60 fps. In Zelda they have prioritized a dynamic and interactive very large world and as such Zelda runs at (almost) 30. These types of trade offs will be there on new hardware as well albeit with a larger computational budget. But it will still be a mobile device with a very limited power budget which sets pretty tights limits on how much computation you can do each millisecond.
 
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