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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

There's another option to the expandable memory issue.

Nintendo could put a small internal memory, dedicated to just OS and save files, and bundle every system with a chip of whatever external format they chose from.

The main problem is that it would increase BOM, but with over a dozen million cards per year guaranteed, economy of scales for external storage would be much much stronger.

Both 3DS family and Vita did something like this, although the former bundled SD cards and the Vita didn't sell.
 
Yes, this, absolutely.

The idea that a late 2024 release (which a lot of people believe in) would mean that we would still know nothing about Nintendo’s next hardware until next summer and it drives me crazy.

At this point, still a whole year without anything but (seemingly) remasters and such, and no hardware reveal?
It has taken long enough already that I can’t accept that.
If people who believe this end up being right, I have legitimate reasons to be mad at Nintendo for taking so long. It’s just never ending.

But I prefer to believe that we’ll get our reveal later this year or (very) early 2024 at the latest because again, I think it’s legitimate.

Please Nintendo, don’t make #TeamHoliday2024 win. It’s been long enough.
I totally feel your pain haha but I can offer one tiny ray of hope:

Although I do think a fall 2024 release is increasingly likely (🥲) I don't think we'll reach April 2024 without a reveal because Nintendo will probably not want to go into their end of year financial meeting with investors saying: "We're predicting even lower Switch sales than before... have a good day."
Most likely they will have announced the system before then so they can boost confidence going into the start of the new fiscal year :)
 
I wonder if Nintendo know for a fact (maybe through Microsoft) that if PS5 Pro is coming out in late 2024 it would shift Nintendo into going first in March or April 2024 to avoid the added competition in Winter 2024 if that’s when Switch 2 was initially planned for release?
Your glass is very very half full. If anything, maybe they'd say "Launching 4 months after the last Pro worked extremely well, let's do that again!"
 
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Hypothetically speaking, could the FDE in T239 be used to offset some of the speed/power related issues of SD Express? Wondering if there was any prior speculation on what the File Decompression Engine would be used for :)
There are three possible things that dedicated decompression hardware lets you do.

First, it can give you cheap CPU power. Just about every game will need to decompression at some point. Usually you need the CPU to do that. Having dedicated hardware frees that CPU up to do other things. Physically, the FDE is smaller on chip than a generic CPU core, so it's usually a pretty good trade off.

Second, it can support formats that might be slow on a generic CPU. You're not compressing "generic" data, you're compressing specific things, usually game textures, which you know a lot about. You've got custom hardware. You can take advantage of these two facts to make something that gets very good levels of compression (much smaller files) with very high speed. This is the place it might help with storage speeds. You've got smaller files on storage, so you need to read less, and the FDE makes decompressing fast enough for that to be worth it. GDeflate is one example

Third, you can integrate the FDE with your storage controllers. This means that instead of reading the data into memory (one copy), then decompressing to a different chunk of memory (another copy) you can stream the data through the FDE before it gets to memory, decompressing as you go. This is really tricky to pull off, but it has been done. A cartridge based console is kind of the best case scenario for this sort of tech, no idea if it will be used by Nvidia


It doesn't matter that the Playstation Q runs on a generic android os since were talking about a device that is exclusively made to stream games.
Exactly, but also, exactly. There is already a Remote Play app for Android, how much of a premium is Sony going to charge for a cheap Android table with a controller glued to it?

I wouldn't call it lazy, because I think that word gets thrown around too much in an industry loaded with abusive, low paying, crunch riddled studios. But Android is not a real time OS, and this is a device whose only operation is low latency streaming. This is ripe for a stripped back OS where the Remote Play software has direct access to the BT and WiFi stacks, as well as the framebuffer.

I mean, I'm waiting for the reviews, but if they can't get the latency down, the experience is gonna be real bad, and unlike the Wii U, they don't have the custom hardware in the Playstation itself, so it has to get solved on the Q itself.


Does Sony struggle with keeping secrets, or does Nintendo excel in maintaining secrecy?
We just heard about devkits for Switch 2. If you assume holiday 2024 for both, they're about at the same level of "leak."

But were also talking about a brand new console, which will have a slow drip of developer engagement, mostly focusing on launch titles, versus a revision, whose kits need to get into the hands of every major dev with an existing PS5 game. Put Sony and Nintendo aside, it's just a different ball game.

The one concrete thing there is, is the T239 production time. Would it make sense to tapeout 2 years before launch? 3 years? 4 years?
We have Nintendo's entire production schedule for the NX due to the gigaleak. The goal was to deliver Switch 18 months from chip sampling, but they had to delay to 2 years because the software wasn't ready.

There were rumors of Oberon samples as far back as late 2018, and there were definitely devkits with Oberon (the APU in the PS5) in May. So yeah, probably 2 years there as well.
 
Second, it can support formats that might be slow on a generic CPU. You're not compressing "generic" data, you're compressing specific things, usually game textures, which you know a lot about. You've got custom hardware. You can take advantage of these two facts to make something that gets very good levels of compression (much smaller files) with very high speed. This is the place it might help with storage speeds. You've got smaller files on storage, so you need to read less, and the FDE makes decompressing fast enough for that to be worth it. GDeflate is one example
a current usecase of GDeflate

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62% of the non RTXIO build. don't know how well this would scale with smaller assets though
 
OK, it's a long read, and mainly for those into the silicon industry ...


... but here's the TL ; DR - despite the AI boom, TSMC does have plenty of spare capacity at the moment. And looking at the figures for PC and smartphones, other components that Nintendo might use are not supply constrained either. There's also an interesting comment about Samsung's fabs mainly being geared for memory. I know DRAM is a big part of their business, but I'm not sure if the 5nm++ node discussed recently is a memory targeted node?
Samsung's memory process nodes are different from Samsung's logic process nodes. Samsung uses the 10 nm* based 1z process node for 24 Gbps GDDR6 and is planning to use that for GDDR7.

* → a marketing nomenclature used by all foundry companies
 


Our favourite mockup man

I mean, I do find it interesting that even that this is fake, the fact how the sticks and buttons are switched in tabletop mode, so it makes having one joycon more comfortable to play with is quite nice. Other then that, designwise could use some upgrades.
 
the 8k logo/symbol is an industry thing for 8K TV compatible hardware and has nothing to do with 8K content, it just means this works with an 8K TV
That... Isn't what it means. It means it can OUTPUT 8K.

A modern 8K display will accept just about any resolution through any port.

Xbox also didn't put it prominently on the box, it's just one of the listed output options. So Sony knew what they were doing slapping an "8K" badge on their console.
 
Has this person admitted to faking these? I'll be honest....it's one thing to have the artistic ability to create some pretty good looking fakes, but to think long and hard about some novel controller concepts and to then go all out in making fakes based on those concepts is on another level.

I really like this animation below....it's very smooth and very well designed. Very much feels like something Nintendo (or even Apple) would do:




They also say that no one figured out how the Joy-Con design works. He seems to be implying that different Joy-Con positions function as an input themselves, or that different positions lead to different kinds of inputs on the controller.


It’s all fake
There is no way that this guy would still be posting if it was real
He’D be NINJA’d already…


It’s a super elaborate fake that needs more polish
 
It’s all fake
There is no way that this guy would still be posting if it was real
He’D be NINJA’d already…


It’s a super elaborate fake that needs more polish
Ninja's aren't stupid taking it down will just add to it legitimacy
 
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Correct me if im wrong but didnt we once have a funcle or someone mention that the next Switch was in development along with a PS5 Pro?
 
That... Isn't what it means. It means it can OUTPUT 8K.

A modern 8K display will accept just about any resolution through any port.

Xbox also didn't put it prominently on the box, it's just one of the listed output options. So Sony knew what they were doing slapping an "8K" badge on their console.
OK we're kinda beating around the same bush here and I didn't word it technically correct enough, but yes, it means basically WORKS WITH 8K... output specifically refers to the hardware connections etc... and nothing to do with content available on the platform, none of which they've ever shown or promoted to run in 8K.

Sony are in the industry group that benefit from selling 8K TVs etc... so yeah of course they have a vested interest in associating it with their 8K TVs - that's why its there, to get people to buy it with an 8K TV (from Sony)
 
I think Sony and Microsoft want some of that hybrid console gaming. cake too. Microsoft is going in the streaming direction, knowing that everybody has a phone. But they are limited by internet speeds. Nintendo went the hardware way. Sony maybe is just testing the waters with Q.
Id say data caps are still a big problem, a lot of states even in the us have measly 1Tb data caps, myself included.
 
I had a chance to look at Mio's model from Xenoblade 3, and compared it to Pyra's Xenoblade 2 model.
  • same number of textures, but 4x larger.
    • main body is 1024 vs 2048
    • the eyes have more textures devoted to it in Xenoblade 3
  • the polygon count is about 2x higher in Xenoblade 3
    • Pyra has about 17K triangles
    • Mio has about 30K triangles
of course, LoDs are kicking in all the time, but it shows that Monolith learned how to leverage the hardware significantly better since Xenoblade 2. their next game, which is probably on Drake, is gonna be another big leap, I think. after what they squeezed into XC3, they're pobably very happy they won't be so polygon starved for the environments again
 
Yeah, sorry to drop and then run, lunchtime. :)

This repo is, essentially, a fork of Linux 4 Tegra, Nvidia's Linux distribution. I link to it because GitHub is a much nicer interface than Nvidia's.

In the NX days, L4T was full of Switch stuff, a lot of it labeled as "Odin" the internal project codename. Nvidia has been more careful this time, moving T239 dev out early. But that seems to be almost exlusively the graphics host drivers, and a lot of other code is shared with Orin, and that stuff continues to crop up.

Advanced Microcontroller Master Bus Architecture: AMBA, the standard set of busses that are provided on ARM chips
AHB: AMBA High Speed Bus, a set of additional busses that extend AMBA. AHB peripherals have their own DMA (direct memory address) for extra speed
APB: AMBA Peripheral Bus, a simpler bridge for getting additional peripherals to connect to AMBA.

What this shows is that in April of last year, around the time we have other evidence of T239 hardware sampling, Nvidia updated their internal Linux to support SD Express on T239 only, not on T234, as the Orin devkits don't have on-board SD Express (those PCIe lanes are used elsewhere).

Because Orin support wasn't updated, it seems unlikely this update was made simply as part of Normal Tegra Testing Procedure, but it doesn't guarantee that [redacted] will use SD Express either. Just that Nvidia was putting T239 in motherboards that ran SD Express, and found bugs they thought needed fixing.
I would fully expect this to be something Nintendo wanted to test on the system, UFS cards are mostly dead, so they might not even consider them, however they are technically the better choice because of lower power draw and potentially lower costs, as SD Express isn't exactly a huge market either and prices are high, around 50cents per GB from what I can find (An Amazon listing for "Ritz gear" 256GB SD 7.0 (express up to 985MB/s) for $129).
 
I had a chance to look at Mio's model from Xenoblade 3, and compared it to Pyra's Xenoblade 2 model.
  • same number of textures, but 4x larger.
    • main body is 1024 vs 2048
    • the eyes have more textures devoted to it in Xenoblade 3
  • the polygon count is about 2x higher in Xenoblade 3
    • Pyra has about 17K triangles
    • Mio has about 30K triangles
of course, LoDs are kicking in all the time, but it shows that Monolith learned how to leverage the hardware significantly better since Xenoblade 2.
Plus iirc a significant chunk of XB2's development was at a time when Monolith didn't even know the specs of the Switch, and they had to rush the optimisation at the end when everything was finally locked down. I remember comparison shots of Rex from the first trailer to the final game showed they were improving facial animation, eyes, lighting, all sorts of stuff, even after they were far enough along to have had their first trailer out. Then XBDE was sorta built on the skeleton of a Wii game, so XB3 might arguably be the first (Xeno) game Monolith developed where they knew the ins and outs of the Switch from the beginning, and it's incredible how far they were able to push the hardware once they had proper experience with it.
their next game, which is probably on Drake, is gonna be another big leap, I think. after what they squeezed into XC3, they're pobably very happy they won't be so polygon starved for the environments again
I wonder if it'd be too much to hope that their next game will be as much of a leap over XB3 as XBX was over XB1 👀
 
Does Sony struggle with keeping secrets, or does Nintendo excel in maintaining secrecy?
Historically when it comes to hardware plans and the rollout to new hardware, Sony has brought in more devs, and done so earlier than Nintendo. I think that's all it is.
 
I had a chance to look at Mio's model from Xenoblade 3, and compared it to Pyra's Xenoblade 2 model.
  • same number of textures, but 4x larger.
    • main body is 1024 vs 2048
    • the eyes have more textures devoted to it in Xenoblade 3
  • the polygon count is about 2x higher in Xenoblade 3
    • Pyra has about 17K triangles
    • Mio has about 30K triangles
Interesting. Even looking at Nia (XC2) vs Nia (XC3) without checking the numbers, there is a big change (granted time has passed,etc)
 
I had a chance to look at Mio's model from Xenoblade 3, and compared it to Pyra's Xenoblade 2 model.
  • same number of textures, but 4x larger.
    • main body is 1024 vs 2048
    • the eyes have more textures devoted to it in Xenoblade 3
  • the polygon count is about 2x higher in Xenoblade 3
    • Pyra has about 17K triangles
    • Mio has about 30K triangles
of course, LoDs are kicking in all the time, but it shows that Monolith learned how to leverage the hardware significantly better since Xenoblade 2. their next game, which is probably on Drake, is gonna be another big leap, I think. after what they squeezed into XC3, they're pobably very happy they won't be so polygon starved for the environments again
This is insane to me, especially when you realize how much more is happening on screen in XC3, too. Monolith with REDACTED power is gonna be nuts.
 
I had a chance to look at Mio's model from Xenoblade 3, and compared it to Pyra's Xenoblade 2 model.
  • same number of textures, but 4x larger.
    • main body is 1024 vs 2048
    • the eyes have more textures devoted to it in Xenoblade 3
  • the polygon count is about 2x higher in Xenoblade 3
    • Pyra has about 17K triangles
    • Mio has about 30K triangles
of course, LoDs are kicking in all the time, but it shows that Monolith learned how to leverage the hardware significantly better since Xenoblade 2. their next game, which is probably on Drake, is gonna be another big leap, I think. after what they squeezed into XC3, they're pobably very happy they won't be so polygon starved for the environments again
Nia would've been a better comparison because they're from the same race
 
I would fully expect this to be something Nintendo wanted to test on the system, UFS cards are mostly dead, so they might not even consider them, however they are technically the better choice because of lower power draw and potentially lower costs, as SD Express isn't exactly a huge market either and prices are high, around 50cents per GB from what I can find (An Amazon listing for "Ritz gear" 256GB SD 7.0 (express up to 985MB/s) for $129).
SDe prices now seem comparable to SDXC back in 2017.

Personally I soooort of expect that games will still cap out at a raw read speed of 100, due to Game Cards, but if they use Game Cards that are fast enough to run MOST games without installs, provide UFS internal memory and the option of SDe expandable memory, backwards compatible with SD for Switch and some newer games, I think I'd be even happier.

Fingers crossed.
 
I wonder if it'd be too much to hope that their next game will be as much of a leap over XB3 as XBX was over XB1 👀
The hardware should be there for that, anyway. Though I kinda wouldn't mind if they didn't push so hard that resolutions suffered, for a change.
The Playstation Q is to the Switch was the Playstation Move was to the Wii.
In that case Q would just be a hybrid system with a glowing ball.
 
Wow, I had no idea it was so backwards in the USA still.
I've had 10GBits/s uncapped for years.
Californian here. I have the option for uncapped high speed through my provider but they have it set so that being uncapped is its own separate monthly subscription perk, which when added to the cost of my current 200Mbps internet service would be over $100 per month. I have some friends who almost have to buy physical games and could never do streaming games because downloading a single PS4 game takes them several days.

It's nuts out here.
 
Nia would've been a better comparison because they're from the same race
not necessarily because of their race. the polygon counts are arbitrary when it comes to who gets what. I compared Pyra and Mio because they both have equal importance in their games and main and/or playable characters are awarded higher budgets
 
Californian here. I have the option for uncapped high speed through my provider but they have it set so that being uncapped is its own separate monthly subscription perk, which when added to the cost of my current 200Mbps internet service would be over $100 per month. I have some friends who almost have to buy physical games and could never do streaming games because downloading a single PS4 game takes them several days.

It's nuts out here.
Yep, I only allow myself to download a digital game a month
 
I read someone mentioned that we have recently heard whispers that devkits for Switch 2 have gone out? Is this true?

What was said and where did this come from?
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I'm still guessing that there will be much more substantial, verified leaks shortly after Gamescom in late August, where nintendo is expected to show up and I suspect is where they will be privately showing off new dev kits.
 
Hey, what are the latest rumors about the Switch 2 ? I read a few days ago that its specs should be around a Xbox ? Do all the speculations in this thread go in this direction ? I remember discussions from a few months ago saying that it could be close to a PS4 Pro or even better, I think.
 
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for some reason I was looking up the announcement date for LPDDR5X modules and found that vendors approved chips for release in late 2022, which led me to ask how long would it take to redesign chips to add support. some of the products around this time was probably made with lpddr5x in mind, which means that SoC makers had earlier access. Nvidia would be one of them, but we also suspect the chip was completed by early 2022
 
Hey, what are the latest rumors about the Switch 2 ? I read a few days ago that it the specs should be around a Xbox ? Do all the speculations in this thread go in this direction ? I remember discussions from a few months ago saying that it could be close to a PS4 Pro or even better, I think.
We compare it to an Xbox Series S from what we got. iirc it won't be better in every aspects, but with DLSS it should achieve a similar image quality.
 
8K “We mean it this time”*

*available only on The Touryst,
I can definitely see Sony try to push for 8k, but that's mainly so people can buy their 4k TVs. But it's gonna be a gimmick like checkerboard rendering 4k on PS4 Pro. 8k TVs are too expensive for now, but Sony could make them cheaper when next gen arrives (PS6).
 
Hey, what are the latest rumors about the Switch 2 ? I read a few days ago that it the specs should be around a Xbox ? Do all the speculations in this thread go in this direction ? I remember discussions from a few months ago saying that it could be close to a PS4 Pro or even better, I think.

There's been no new information in at least 5 months.
 
Hey, what are the latest rumors about the Switch 2 ? I read a few days ago that it the specs should be around a Xbox ? Do all the speculations in this thread go in this direction ? I remember discussions from a few months ago saying that it could be close to a PS4 Pro or even better, I think.
 
not necessarily because of their race. the polygon counts are arbitrary when it comes to who gets what. I compared Pyra and Mio because they both have equal importance in their games and main and/or playable characters are awarded higher budgets
eh I would say Pyra and Mythra are more of a heroine than Mio and I would say even Nia is more important than Mio
 
eh I would say Pyra and Mythra are more of a heroine than Mio and I would say even Nia is more important than Mio
That's straight up not true, Mio is clearly meant to be the second lead of the game right after Noah, Nia importance is relative to who she's in the plot but as far as screen presence she is far surpassed by Mio hence why it makes more sense to use Mio who'd be on display during cutscenes far more often than Nia.

You don't compare models because they're the same race but rather how the devs would envision how much importance they have by how often they're on screen which naturally means they'll have more care put into them which makes the Pyra and Mio comparison perfectly valid.
 
That's straight up not true, Mio is clearly meant to be the second lead of the game right after Noah, Nia importance is relative to who she's in the plot but as far as screen presence she is far surpassed by Mio hence why it makes more sense to use Mio who'd be on display during cutscenes far more often than Nia.

You don't compare models because they're the same race but rather how the devs would envision how much importance they have by how often they're on screen which naturally means they'll have more care put into them which makes the Pyra and Mio comparison perfectly valid.
Not really? Honestly did not like 3's characters nor story so i'm might be biased but she felt like Fiora more than Pyra or any main driver or blade in 2
 
Not really? Honestly did not like 3's characters nor story so i'm might be biased but she felt like Fiora more than Pyra or any main driver or blade in 2
yeah not gonna bother then if you're coming at it from that kind of perspective and we're getting off topic anyway.
 
Plus iirc a significant chunk of XB2's development was at a time when Monolith didn't even know the specs of the Switch, and they had to rush the optimisation at the end when everything was finally locked down. I remember comparison shots of Rex from the first trailer to the final game showed they were improving facial animation, eyes, lighting, all sorts of stuff, even after they were far enough along to have had their first trailer out. Then XBDE was sorta built on the skeleton of a Wii game, so XB3 might arguably be the first (Xeno) game Monolith developed where they knew the ins and outs of the Switch from the beginning, and it's incredible how far they were able to push the hardware once they had proper experience with it.

I wonder if it'd be too much to hope that their next game will be as much of a leap over XB3 as XBX was over XB1 👀
I dunno. The Wii to Wii U was a pretty big jump in every area. But maybe if we include DLSS, graphically we could see something similar.
Not really? Honestly did not like 3's characters nor story so i'm might be biased but she felt like Fiora more than Pyra or any main driver or blade in 2
How is Mio like Fiora? Fiora isn't playable for most of the game compared to Mio. Mio's back story, interactions with the group, and character development far exceed that of Fiora as a result.

Mio doesn't have a stand out personality like Nia, but that doesn't make her less important. I agree that she is the secondary character (after Noah). What Mio has that Nia doesn't, is presence in two games.
 
for some reason I was looking up the announcement date for LPDDR5X modules and found that vendors approved chips for release in late 2022, which led me to ask how long would it take to redesign chips to add support. some of the products around this time was probably made with lpddr5x in mind, which means that SoC makers had earlier access. Nvidia would be one of them, but we also suspect the chip was completed by early 2022
I think there's a possibility Nintendo and Nvidia could have decided to use a LPDDR5X-7500 controller for Drake before tape out since Micron and Samsung did announce LPDDR5X-7500 being validated by Mediatek and Qualcomm on 19 November 2021 and 3 March 2022 respectively.
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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