StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[LiC]

NVN or NVN2? It does sound like it could be a hint at disabled SMs for BC, it would be very weird to remove L2 cache on Ampere, as we know it's a bottleneck for the desktop GPU hardware and was spotted by the engineers when designing Orin, I won't argue about leaked specs, but we possibly don't know the context here. I'm just going to wait on L2 cache until it's pared with the rest of the GPU specs.

NVN2. Nothing in NVN1 relates to GA10F. I'm referring to it all as NVN because NVN2 is "version 2 of NVN."

I have no idea whether the final number will be 1 MB, 4 MB, or something else, and I don't pretend to have one! All I can tell you is that NVN2 (as of whenever this constants file was updated) expects a total L2 cache size of 1 MB to be returned from the GPU, and the 4 MB number seemingly returned by GA10F's sources would conflict with that. One of them has to be wrong.

That's pretty interesting, as it couldn't be a holdover from previously released silicon; both GM20B and GV10B (potentially relevant if Xavier-based dev kits exist, which IIRC was a common theory) don't match.

Whatever that number was, it was likely entered intentionally at some point. I wonder what's caused the discrepancy.

Indeed. One can confirm it's not a leftover because the NVN1 version of that constant is 256 KB, which is the actual value in GM20B.

 

[fwd-bwd]

Yes, I wouldn't expect a home-only console to sell better than a hybrid, all other things being equal. But, I also wouldn't expect a highly-priced "pro" model to sell that much better, either. Neither Sony nor MS have reported PS4 Pro or XBO X sales, but what sales figures from Japan show the PS4 Pro accounted for just over 17% of all PS4 sales in the country by the time PS5 had launched. Even if it was higher in other regions, that still puts PS4 Pro sales at maybe between 20-25 million, and Xbox One X sales certainly well below that. The Switch Lite, incidentally, has almost certainly already outsold the One X, and will probably end up outselling the PS4 Pro too.

I think a better analogue may be Series X/S* instead of PS4 Pro or One X. The premium model should not be seemed as handicapped in anyway (i.e., losing handheld mode), or it'd be a weak value prop to the enthusiasts and potentially confusing to the non-enthusiasts. If anything it may feature more exclusive features (e.g., built-in Twitch streaming), not less. Yes, a premium model might sell less units, but they can also command a higher margin.

* GamesIndustry.biz has seen figures that show S and X are at least 50/50 in terms of install base in major territories (source). Data analysts Ampere says that Xbox Series S is out-selling Series X in some major markets due to the former's better availability (source).

 

[ILikeFeet]

Okay let’s assume this 12SM device is a Nintendo Home Console. With the added space for bigger better heatsink and fan, what do we think this will be clocked at? Could we be potentially looking at a 4TF machine?

Punching above its weight with DLSS this may actually rival a Series S, no?

nothing that a hybrid couldn't accomplish

 

[Spork4000]

Okay let’s assume this 12SM device is a Nintendo Home Console. With the added space for bigger better heatsink and fan, what do we think this will be clocked at? Could we be potentially looking at a 4TF machine?

Punching above its weight with DLSS this may actually rival a Series S, no?

I think if it was a home console they would go bigger on the GPU.

 

[Jersh]

Indeed. One can confirm it's not a leftover because the NVN1 version of that constant is 256 KB, which is the actual value in GM20B.

@ILikeFeet suggested it could be from an older design, which leads me to wonder if it could be leftover from whatever Dane was.

 

[Thraktor]

Okay let’s assume this 12SM device is a Nintendo Home Console. With the added space for bigger better heatsink and fan, what do we think this will be clocked at? Could we be potentially looking at a 4TF machine?

Punching above its weight with DLSS this may actually rival a Series S, no?

If we're talking 8nm, then I could see it pushing as high as 1.2GHz on the GPU, so about 3.7TF. Hard to say exactly, as it's more a matter of what Nintendo's comfortable with in terms of power consumption than anything else. And then if they were hypothetically in the scenario where they wanted to use a die-shrunk version of the chip in a hybrid a couple of years later, they'd have to limit themselves a bit to ensure the clocks are viable on the die-shrunk chip for the hybrid model too.

I think a better analogue may be Series X/S* instead of PS4 Pro or One X. The premium model should not be seemed as handicapped in anyway (i.e., losing handheld mode), or it'd be a weak value prop to the enthusiasts and potentially confusing to the non-enthusiasts. If anything it may feature more exclusive features (e.g., built-in Twitch streaming), not less. Yes, a premium model might sell less units, but they can also command a higher margin.

* GamesIndustry.biz has seen figures that show S and X are at least 50/50 in terms of install base in major territories (source). Data analysts Ampere says that Xbox Series S is out-selling Series X in some major markets due to the former's better availability (source).

Series S and X are in a different position, though, as we're still early in the generation, and early adopters are more likely to buy higher-end systems. I would imagine sales will gradually skew to the Series S as it reaches a wider, more price-conscious audience. It will still almost certainly have a higher proportion of the high-end models than last gen, as they were both released at the same time. But if we come back to the new Switch model, if it's released as a "pro" model at this point it will be arriving even later in the life-cycle than either the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X.

nothing that a hybrid couldn't accomplish

Absolutely more than a hybrid could accomplish. A system with a far higher power ceiling and the space for much more effective cooling (not to mention the removal of components like screen, battery, etc.) will obviously be able to perform better than a more compact and constrained hybrid. That's why we're not here talking about how Nintendo is going to fit PS5 performance in their new Switch.

 

[Alovon11]

Okay let’s assume this 12SM device is a Nintendo Home Console. With the added space for bigger better heatsink and fan, what do we think this will be clocked at? Could we be potentially looking at a 4TF machine?

Punching above its weight with DLSS this may actually rival a Series S, no?

12SMs before DLSS would match up to the Series S at 1Ghz.

If they go the "Home Console First with 8nm, Hybrid version with 5nm" idea, they would have to make sure clocks can match up to test 5nm silicon when dokced in the tablet form factor.

 

[LiC]

@ILikeFeet suggested it could be from an older design, which leads me to wonder if it could be leftover from whatever Dane was.

Maybe. You could speculate any number of reasons why either number could be out of date. Ultimately I think this is a good example of how it's impossible to tell from this leak what's really up to date -- what might be stale values, placeholders, or already changed in some development branch -- and why the things that have been posted are suggestive at best, not conclusory.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Absolutely more than a hybrid could accomplish. A system with a far higher power ceiling and the space for much more effective cooling (not to mention the removal of components like screen, battery, etc.) will obviously be able to perform better than a more compact and constrained hybrid. That's why we're not here talking about how Nintendo is going to fit PS5 performance in their new Switch.

I meant that I don't think a docked only system will provide a level of performance a hybrid won't be able to. if devs knew a hybrid model was coming, I don't think they'd touch an enhanced docked only profile. they'll just make docked exclusive experience the same as the hybrid docked experience

 

[Golden Darkness]

It's weird. Either its an error that somehow works with whatever dev kit is out there, or Nvidia thinks 12 SMs only needs 1 MB of L2$ because the the full GA102 only used 6 MB for its 84 SMs. Ampere needs all the memory bandwidth it can get, however.

 

[Z0m3le]

NVN2. Nothing in NVN1 relates to GA10F. I'm referring to it all as NVN because NVN2 is "version 2 of NVN."

I have no idea whether the final number will be 1 MB, 4 MB, or something else, and I don't pretend to have one! All I can tell you is that NVN2 (as of whenever this constants file was updated) expects a total L2 cache size of 1 MB to be returned from the GPU, and the 4 MB number seemingly returned by GA10F's sources would conflict with that. One of them has to be wrong.


Indeed. One can confirm it's not a leftover because the NVN1 version of that constant is 256 KB, which is the actual value in GM20B.

Thanks, I know it can be exhausting and the file is out there for other people to read but the thread (and myself) relies on you regardless. I appreciate it.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Nate already implied it’s a portable with his comment on rt causing thermal/power draw issues for the battery. Being bigger than expected.

 

[Pokemaniac]

So there is one thought I had, just thinking outside the box for a moment, what if the device they're releasing in the next year or so is a Switch Home, TV-only console powered by Drake on 8nm, and then in a couple of years they release Switch 2, a hybrid device with a die-shrunk version of Drake on 5nm or whatever? So the Switch Home is basically the TV-only version of Switch 2, it just comes out a couple of years before Switch 2 does. It makes the marketing a bit easier, where Switch Home is very clearly a supplementary device rather than a new generation, and it largely plays the same library but with some exclusives, and then when Switch 2 comes around they just have to say that you can play all your Switch 2 games on Switch Home.

The awkward part would probably be that all the games made in the years between Switch Home and Switch 2 releasing would be missing a performance profile: Drake handheld. Therefore while they'd work on Switch 2, and look great in docked mode, they'd probably have to revert to the base Switch handheld profile, which would mean a huge gap in quality between the two. Not sure if there's an easy way around that other than forcing all developers to support a completely unused profile in the interim.

Anyway, I'd still be very surprised if it's anything other than a hybrid, but with the leak shaking things up I figured I'd share ones of my more out-there thoughts.

Edit: Ok, so for the issue of no Drake handheld profile, they could set up Switch Home so that when it's connected to a 1080p display it automatically clocks down to the planned Drake handheld clocks, and they just call it 1080p mode and claim it's to save power. I'm sure it would piss off devs to no end, and probably some users too, who would prefer to run at 4K and get the benefits of downscaling, but it would force developers to ensure every game would end up being compatible with Switch 2 handheld mode.

This is one specific line I don't think Nintendo will cross because it's antithetical to Switch as a concept. A non-hybrid model can't be allowed to surpass the capabilities of the hybrid, because at that point you're fragmenting the platform and forcing the people who play in multiple modes have to buy multiple systems to get the best experience.

 

[Look over there]

https://www.pcmag.com/news/nvidia-mulls-continuing-rtx-3000-sales-even-after-next-gen-gpus-launch

Something casually tossed out, or something more indicative about Nvidia's thinking about their allocation of Samsung 8nm?

 

[LiC]

Thanks, I know it can be exhausting and the file is out there for other people to read but the thread (and myself) relies on you regardless. I appreciate it.

No problem. I do think more pairs of eyes would be good, but I understand the hesitation.

Nate already implied it’s a portable with his comment on rt causing thermal/power draw issues for the battery. Being bigger than expected.

If the devkits, whose existence has been known to multiple sources for some time, weren't hybrids, I find it impossible to believe that wouldn't have come out explicitly already.

 

[ILikeFeet]

If the devkits, whose existence has been known to multiple sources for some time, weren't hybrids, I find it impossible to believe that wouldn't have come out explicitly already.

the whole deal with RT on the dev side is giving me pause. it's possible that practically no one really tested RT on the device in any substantial manner. especially if the games being made for it are also on Mariko/PS4/XBO or on the PS5/Series with no RT. might be the same with the Steam Deck and RT. only one game seemed to have been tested by devs to use RT (Ghost Runner)

 

[Jersh]

the whole deal with RT on the dev side is giving me pause.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Skittzo]

the whole deal with RT on the dev side is giving me pause. it's possible that practically no one really tested RT on the device in any substantial manner. especially if the games being made for it are also on Mariko/PS4/XBO or on the PS5/Series with no RT. might be the same with the Steam Deck and RT. only one game seemed to have been tested by devs to use RT (Ghost Runner)

Do you mean Nate saying that the RT capability was limited? That could just be explained by the devkits using fairly different or old hardware.

 

[Pokemaniac]

No problem. I do think more pairs of eyes would be good, but I understand the hesitation.

Yeah, unfortunately leaked source code is very legally radioactive. Otherwise I'd probably take a look through it.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

A2000 is 8nm since it's an Ampere product

$200 ain't gonna cover the r&d and production of this chip, especially with the heavily truncated audience a docked only switch would sell to

I don’t see Nintendo going over 200$ for any type of console only Switch. I was more talking they would use what they have currently than engineering a brand new chip/node for one. That I think is a pipe dream and has no real benefits outside of appeasing a very small subsect of enthusiasts.

 

[Crusters]

Oldpuck! I'm back!
Oh hey, Thread Lurker. How you doing?

Pissed off. At you.
What? Why? Last time we talked you seemed pretty jazzed.

That was when you told me that the Omega Switch Would Be The Best Graphics Evar!
I... I did not actually say that

But now I hear that The Oemga Switch-
Don't call it that, please don't let that catch on

-that the Omega Switch won't be backwards compatible!!!!
Oh gods, not this again. You know what? Don't worry about it

What? So it WILL be backwards compatible???
I said don't worry about it. There isn't anything to worry about. Chill. It's cool. Promise. Your games are going to work

So MVG is wrong?
I didn't actually say that.

MVG IS RIGHT? MY GAAAAAAAMES!
Okay, you know what? I'm going to explain it as best I can but here is the deal. You can only read farther if you don't freak out.

I can't promise anything, but I will try
Okay. Big deep breath

The Switch is built on an Nvidia architecture called Maxwell. The Omega Switch -

It's catching on!
Hush! The Omega Switch, according to this leak, is built on an Nvidia architecture called Ampere. Well before this leak, we've known backwards compatibility for an Ampere console would be an issue.

But-
Stop freaking out. Breath.

Okay, okay. I'm listening
There almost definitely will be a backwards compatibility solution so good you'll never notice. There is a decent chance that MVG is right and the solution isn't compatible hardware but a software solution. That software solution is definitely going to be automated in some way, and that every game you care about will work.

Maybe we'll see a patch like MVG describes. Xbox does this for some games, and Xbox is the gold standard for preserving BC across hardware. There is also a possible hardware solution, that doesn't require patching, but also is probably not perfect-forever-and-always BC. It's just BC so good you don't care about the problems.

Even the Game Boy Color didn't exactly replicate what the Game Boy hardware could do. The processor was slightly faster, but that's not something that ever mattered to a video game

Games are all I care about it
Exactly. Perfect BC isn't the same as "BC so good..."

So good you'll never notice, right.
Besides you don't want perfect backwards compatibility do you?

What? Yes I do!
Perfect BC means no improvements in old games. If you want "perfect" BC you basically need to shove the entire Classic Switch hardware into the Omega Switch's case, and run old games on there. That means no framerate improvements, no resolution increases, nothing. It also means the hardware is hella expensive.

What you want is to play all your old games, with no major new bugs, and better graphics

The Best Graphics Evar!!!!
Right. So what does this mean

It means don't worry about it?
It means don't worry about it.

What? WHAT!!!!!!

What do you mean my Gameboy color couldn't exactly replicate my old Gameboy games and do exactly what my old Gameboy could do? All these years..... All....... Lies.

If I never knew I would have never thought about but now I know and I can't stop!

Damn you puck..... Daaaaammmmnn. Yooouuuu!!!!!

 

[ShadowFox08]

I don’t see Nintendo going over 200$ for any type of console only Switch. I was more talking they would use what they have currently than engineering a brand new chip/node for one. That I think is a pipe dream and has no real benefits outside of appeasing a very small subsect of enthusiasts.

if it was a docked version of current switch, $200 is definitely feasible.

But for a brand new model that is using Drake? At least $350 because it is a huge upgrade and it it's a new chip/tech. and it's gotten more features than a Series S..

Would be really awkward to price this vs a $300 OLED model tbqh. Even if it is home only.

 

[NineTailSage]

NVN or NVN2? It does sound like it could be a hint at disabled SMs for BC, it would be very weird to remove L2 cache on Ampere, as we know it's a bottleneck for the desktop GPU hardware and was spotted by the engineers when designing Orin, I won't argue about leaked specs, but we possibly don't know the context here. I'm just going to wait on L2 cache until it's pared with the rest of the GPU specs.

It's weird. Either its an error that somehow works with whatever dev kit is out there, or Nvidia thinks 12 SMs only needs 1 MB of L2$ because the the full GA102 only used 6 MB for its 84 SMs. Ampere needs all the memory bandwidth it can get, however.

Everything about this would be weird because increased cache would definitely be a resolution for some of the bandwidth issues the current Switch has. Also the leaked cache specs for Lovelace kind of proves Nvidia knows Ampere was bandwidth stricken from performance gains.
They will have a 24SM part with 32MB of L2$, so they definitely wouldn't assume that less than 4MB is more than enough (of course neither the PS5 or Series consoles have Infinity like cache either just for comparison).

NVIDIA Ada Lovelace 'GeForce RTX 40' GPU Configurations​

GPU Name	GPCs / TPCs	SMs Per TPC / Total	CUDA Cores	L2 Cache	Memory Bus
AD102	12 / 6	2 / 144	18432	96 MB	384-bit
AD103	7 / 6	2 / 84	10752	64 MB	256-bit
AD104	5 / 6	2 / 60	7680	48 MB	192-bit
AD106	3 / 6	2 / 36	4608	32 MB	128-bit
AD107	3 / 4	2 / 24	3072	32 MB	128-bit

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

A docked only Drake is certainly possible, however it would probably be sold at a loss and at a very low price of like 200 or so range.


That said, I see a docked at the 200 range more likely than a lite 2.

 

[Skittzo]

Just so I can follow this conversation, the leak had a bunch of instances of the L2 cache being 4MB and only one where it's 1, right?

Seems to me it's much more likely to be 4 and that 1 is either out of date or missing some other context. It's a lot easier to explain one outlier than a whole bunch.

 

[ILikeFeet]

What do you mean by this?

Do you mean Nate saying that the RT capability was limited? That could just be explained by the devkits using fairly different or old hardware.

I just feel there's a lot missing. what kind of RT are we talking? was it per-pixel RT? does the RT effect fill the screen? so many variables at play that one vague data point doesn't explain much. not a diss at NateDrake but the provider of the message not being clear. maybe intentional as to not bore with the nuances

I don’t see Nintendo going over 200$ for any type of console only Switch. I was more talking they would use what they have currently than engineering a brand new chip/node for one. That I think is a pipe dream and has no real benefits outside of appeasing a very small subsect of enthusiasts.

if it was Mariko, yea, that's fine and make sense

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Something that I wanted to point out for a while but wasn't sure if it was right or not, but there is a possibility that the Dane name is not for the final silicon, but for the devkit silicon that comes before the final silicon, which is not farfetch'd.

PS5 had codenames for two chips at one point in time if I remember right, the Ariel soc which was in the early devkits with Navi-based GPUs, while the final devkits had the Oberon which was with the unique Navi-based uArch in the PS5 that has the actual final hardware features. Ariel was also taped out along with Oberon for its use case, and Oberon is what we see in the case of the PS5 APU. Before Ariel the devkits were based off of the PS4 Pro.

I do not think banking on "Dane" getting taped out actually means that the final hardware will come out soon, it could just as equally be for something like the pre-final silicon codename while they are still hard at work with the actual final silicon.

Just to put that out there.

Series X has Dante I think but its final name was Scarlett for the soc.

It's just odd for there not to be 2 codenames for silicon that pertains to Nintendo and only one name exists right now.

this is only based on what I remember from online discussion.

Maybe this is relevant.

Dane could be the Ariel and Drake could be the Oberon.

 

[Metal Gear Miyamoto]

So I'm reading this thing about specs that were 'leaked'last year but were fake. Now i'm reading about specs that triple the core count or something? Which spec list is this referencing?

 

[Crusters]

So I'm reading this thing about specs that were 'leaked'last year but were fake. Now i'm reading about specs that triple the core count or something? Which spec list is this referencing?

The one stolen and ransomed from Nvidia.

 

[Nakapol]

So I'm reading this thing about specs that were 'leaked'last year but were fake. Now i'm reading about specs that triple the core count or something? Which spec list is this referencing?

Nvidia data breach

 

[LiC]

I just feel there's a lot missing. what kind of RT are we talking? was it per-pixel RT? does the RT effect fill the screen? so many variables at play that one vague data point doesn't explain much. not a diss at NateDrake but the provider of the message not being clear. maybe intentional as to not bore with the nuances

Those are decisions software developers will make. Nvidia is just providing the hardware and the graphics APIs. Why the RT would be "limited," as was reported, would just have to be because of the render budget which might be further constrained by power draw. Not because the hardware or software isn't "real" RT or something.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Those are decisions software developers will make. Nvidia is just providing the hardware and the graphics APIs. Why the RT would be "limited," as was reported, would just have to be because of the render budget which might be further constrained by power draw. Not because the hardware or software isn't "real" RT or something.

Where have I said it wasnt real RT? I'm not sure what you're responding to.

 

[LiC]

Where have I said it wasnt real RT? I'm not sure what you're responding to.

What are we missing then? There's ray tracing hardware on the chip, and the API lets you define RT shaders and pass acceleration structures to them. Nate's only comments that I remember are that RT was "limited" and I thought that's what you were referring to, and questioning whether there was something lacking in the RT implementation that we don't know about.

 

[Kingpin Rogers]

Why are people thinking this is going to be docked only now? That'll suck if that's actually the case.

 

[mariodk18]

Why are people thinking this is going to be docked only now? That'll suck if that's actually the case.

It isn’t as far as Nate has heard. Especially since he referenced then having issues with RT battery life.

 

[ShadowFox08]

A docked only Drake is certainly possible, however it would probably be sold at a loss and at a very low price of like 200 or so range.


That said, I see a docked at the 200 range more likely than a lite 2.

There's no way in hell Nintendo would sell a docked console around series s in power at $200 at launch. Especially one with a new chip like Drake. $300 is the lowest they would go if selling at loss at launch.

 

[chocolate_supra]

There's no way in hell Nintendo would sell a docked console around series s in power at $200 at launch.

imho

 

[karmitt]

Nintendo is not selling a docked only version of a Switch revision any year soon. No chance

 

[Herb Alpert]

Launching a TV only next gen model would send an incredibly confusing message.
It's obviously not happening.

 

[ShadowFox08]

imho

Why would they go for a massive loss? Docked version of current switch they can easily do it. But something like 50-75% of a 3050 at $200 at launch, especially new Nvidia tech? No chance in hell at launch at $200.

Sorry if this sounds like a strong opinion, but I don't see any logic with Nintendo selling it at $200.

 

[karmitt]

Why would they go for a massive loss? Docked version of current switch they can easily do it. But something like 50-75% of a 3050 at $200 at launch, especially new Nvidia tech? No chance in hell at launch at $200.

Sorry if this sounds like a strong opinion, but I don't see any logic with Nintendo selling it at $200.

He’s just saying there’s no way they’d sell a docked console.

 

[lexony]

A docked only Drake is certainly possible, however it would probably be sold at a loss and at a very low price of like 200 or so range.


That said, I see a docked at the 200 range more likely than a lite 2.

If they would do a docked only Switch this powerful I doubt that they would sell it at that low of a price. They would have it at least at the same price point (or more) like the OLED model with the selling point that it can do 4K.

Generally I don‘t think that they‘ll ever release an undockable Switch, because while someone who only wants to play in handheld mode would most likely not buy one, the chance is higher that someone who only plays at his TV potentially would buy a new hybrid console. So a docked-only Switch could never be marketed to all Switch Consumers.

But powerwise this hardware could mainly have docked-only players in mind. The Switch is still a relatively powerful handheld and resolution is much less of a problem there.

 

[Gianko]

Switch Tv. I said it first. Remember
It’s a natural consequence of Switch family.

 

[Zedark]

Why are people thinking this is going to be docked only now? That'll suck if that's actually the case.

Just a point of discussion that was brought up. Nothing concrete points in that direction right now, so the null hypothesis of this new chip being a hybrid as well remains standing.

 

[chocolate_supra]

He’s just saying there’s no way they’d sell a docked console.

Yes, @ShadowFox08, this is what I meant. I agree with you! First of all it's way outside of Nintendo's typical strategy to sell a system at a loss, but on top of that I really don't see Nintendo doing a docked-only "Switch Home" or whatever to begin with.

I probably play like 95% docked and I still wouldn't want a docked-only Switch. Now that I have the option of handheld I don't want it taken away (and when covid is over maybe I will have a chance to travel a little, which is the only time I pull the thing out of the dock), and I know many people who play the hell out of the thing in handheld and would turn their noses up at a docked-only Switch. The hybrid nature is the whole reason the Switch is the success it is, and yeah the Lite is there to cater to the DS crowd, but a Home would be there to cater to... who, the WiiU crowd? Even though I admittedly am a WiiU fan, I played the hell out of that thing, and again, I mostly play docked, I recognize that I'm a fluke and docked-only would probably not be the hit that the hybrid or Lite have been.

The only, only way I'd see a docked-only super-powered 4k Switch doing okay is if they somehow streamlined sharing games, save states, and accounts across multiple pieces of hardware. If I could be playing a game on my Switch Home, then save, turn on my Erista Switch and have my account there, that same game ready to go, and a synched save? That would be something to consider. But again, that would work for me (barely playing handheld and I already have a handheld-capable Switch), but I don't know that it'd really work for the market. You'd have to have two Switches in order to have both handheld and tv, which literally defeats the entire point of the Switch.

So it's gotta be a surprisingly powerful hybrid. It's just gotta be.

 

[Toad King]

We won't see anything like a docked console until the very end of the Switch's life. Like something to push as a cheap alternative to a newer console for the holidays.

 

[Kenka]

Just a point of discussion that was brought up. Nothing concrete points in that direction right now, so the null hypothesis of this new chip being a hybrid as well remains standing.

To be more precise, this specific scenario is being brought up because 12 SM on an 8nm node would be quite big for the Switch's current form factor. Though, I must say don't know how many space such a chip would occupy, nor how big it would be on 5nm.

Can anyone help in that regard?

 

[Alovon11]

I can only really see them releasing a Docked version of Drake first if it's something like they announce Switch 2/Hybrid Drake for March 2023 but have Docked/TV Drake release in the holiday of 2022.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

There's no way in hell Nintendo would sell a docked console around series s in power at $200 at launch. Especially one with a new chip like Drake. $300 is the lowest they would go if selling at loss at launch.

What does Drake being as performant as it is have to do with price? Price doesn’t always equal performance. We had this song and dance with the Switch price reveal when the PS4 was literally the same price.

It would be a device that doesn’t have a screen, doesn’t have a battery, doesn’t have a dock. It could look similar to the switch and have rails for joycons. Have a fan, the soc and the RAM (plus sensors). USB ports. Expandable storage slot. 64GB of internal storage (most Nintendo games can fit in this). And have an HDMI port.

But the kicker is that, it’s digital only. That can work, as being sold at a loss, in the 200 price range. You have to buy a new game if you are new anyway on top of also the Online being a 20-50 fee (Family being 80), and these wouldn’t be produced in the same Level as the switch, just like how PS5 DE is not made in large quantities.

They are additives to the platform ecosystem, for the areas where it doesn’t reach. It is not meant to be the new platform like the switch is. But an additive in the same way as the Switch Lite.

Like, 200-250 or 270.

Even then, this isn’t a real idea for them to actually go out of their way to do.

 

[Kenka]

IIRC GPU base speed for Tegra X1 is 76,8 MHz. Then you can only apply integer multiplers up to x13 (998,4 MHz). If this is the same for Brake, the potential GPU clock speeds are:

base clock: 76,8 MHz
x2: 153,6 MHz
x3: 230,4 MHz
x4: 307,2 MHz (OG normal portable)
x5: 384 MHz (OG boost portable)
x6: 460,8 MHz
x7: 537,6 MHz
x8: 614,4 MHz
x9: 691,2 MHz
x10: 768 MHz (OG docked)
x11: 844,8 MHz
x12: 921,6 MHz
x13: 998,4 MHz

I assune that yes, this is the number of GFLOPs of Drake for each base clock multiplier.

base clock: 235.93
x2: 471.85
x3: 707.78
x4: 943.71
x5: 1179.64
x6: 1415.57
x7: 1651.50
x8: 1887.43
x9: 2123.36
x10: 2359.29
x11: 2595.22
x12: 2831.15
x13: 3067.08

Personally, I think they will go with x4 and x8 multipliers.


Weren’t old reports that Shield TV X1 GPU can’t go passed the 1GHz because of thermal problems.

Another poster quoted one of these two posts to answer my question about how to calculate Drake's performance. Out of curiosity, how did you calculate the entries in the second list? It looks like you took the entries in the first on and multipled them by roughly 3. Where does this 3 come from?