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StarTopic Xenoblade 3 |ST| Σ Become One

Reader mode
So there are 4 heroes left to unlock on my end. I guess the other ones would be past chapter 5 at this point.

I'm surprised I already clocked more than 100 hours into the game lol.
 
rAndom said:
So there are 4 heroes left to unlock on my end. I guess the other ones would be past chapter 5 at this point.

I'm surprised I already clocked more than 100 hours into the game lol.
Click to expand...

The time sink aspect really is surprising at points. Like, I’m already 10 hours past my completion time and it feels like all I’ve done is do some question mark stuff and 2 hero quests. Guess I cleared quite a lot of mobs on my way.
 
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Brewster123 said:
I can honestly say I have never felt as disappointed with a game I really like as I currently feel having finished Xenoblade 3. The game succeeds at its core goals (namely its characters and their interlinkages) admirably, has a excellent soundtrack, and great combat systems, with a lot of QoL changes the series sorely needed. If I were being reductive and perhaps more objective, I'd probably assign it a 8/10 rating; I really like the game and think it succeeds at what it focuses on. However, I don't think it works at all as "a culmination of Xenoblade 1 and Xenoblade 2" much at all.

Unlike previous Xeno games, which had their worlds as an area of focus, Xenoblade 3's world feels like an afterthought, with little going into it beyond just melding Xenoblade 1 and Xenoblade 2 areas. Don't get me wrong, the areas are fun to explore and are well designed, but their histories, lore, and general reason for being feel undervelopped, with the world's technology, peoples, and cultures having a similar underdevelopped feeling. To best demonstrate this feeling, I've put a few unanswered questions related to the world that I feel are important below:

  • What consolidated the feelings of regret that constitute moebius into this form? Z surely did not just poof into being. The same goes for Noah and Mio, who seemingly represent the feelings of atonement between N and M. What mechanism brought them into being?
  • What are nopon's role in the world in this game? They seem to be independent of the life harvesting systems, they don't have irises, and they seem to age normally. Why then has nobody questioned why Nopon are able to live for so long? Perhaps this, alongside their lack of a concept of aging, could be explained through Moebius's control of their culture. However, the reverse question, why haven't the Nopon questioned why humans are so short lived, is not.
  • What's the deal with anhilation events? They were among the first things we see in the game and receive several mentions in the story, but the actual cause and effect of them is completely unexplained. This is important because these anhilation events seem to occur despite the seeming stasis the world is in, and if they accumulated, could undermine the "endless now" Z and the moebius aimed to create. Its a fundamental flaw in moebius' ideology, yet it goes unmentioned.
  • What's the deal with the black fog? Is it related to the fog we saw in Future Connected? If it is, why has its effects changed from corrupting entities to its current effects, namely interfering with moebius and their systems (such as the irises)? How is it related to the annihilation events?
  • Why must the worlds' split apart at the end, and why wasn't it made more clear that this would be the end result of the party's philosophy? This could have been used to add a bittersweet element to the Ouroboros' choice. They know their choice will lead to them being separated, but they choose to do so anyway. As it stands now, it feels like a surprise twist that only serves to add a contrived bittersweet twinge to the ending.

Ultimately, it feels as though the world was written in service to the characters in this game, with it being changed and altered as needed to fit the needs of the plot. This is as opposed to previous Xeno games, where the world itself was created first and interesting places for characters were found within it. Moreover, it feels like they never at any point had a lore bible to explain the fine details of this world, which is notable for a series that started with a game that had a 300+ page publicly released lore bible.

In a vacuum, all of this is fine; as I mentioned earlier, the core focus, both emotionally and thematically, lies with the characters, which I think are really well handled and well executed. The problem lies at the intersection of 2 points: (1) This game was presented, both by Nintendo and by Takhashi himself, as a culmination of Xenoblades 1 & 2. and (2) The only substantial connection this game has with Xenoblades 1 and 2 is its world. The only characters connecting to the older games - Nia and Melia - have little screentime for justifiable reasons, so the job of culminating Xenoblade 1 and 2 is left to the world, which crumples under that burden. While its nice knowing that the core ideas that Rex and Shulk fought for continue on, very little is actual resolved here. Heck, neither the conduit nor the trinity processors, which were the key things underlining the worlds and plots of the previous 2 games, are even alluded to. Thematically, Xenoblade 3 is similar to past games, but that doesn't make it a culmination, it just makes it a retread.


"Xenoblade 3 is a really good game."


In my head, there are two versions of me. One of them is saying that. Its telling me that "The game has great character writing and uses them to deliver emotional beats that go toe to toe with the best of older games." The other one though? It keeps shouting "This is how the worlds, sagas, themes, and stories you cherished are concluded! This hollowness, this incompleteness, this sense of lost potential with a concept they'll never revisit again is how it all concludes!" And it won't stop getting louder. Perhaps in a few years time the first voice will win out. But for now, its hard for me to not feel disappointed.

Xenoblade 3 excels at what its trying to be; its just that it isn't what I wanted it to be nor what I was told it would be. And, as a huge fan of the series, it really hurts.
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Completely agreed.

There's only so many times I can tell my brain to just stop thinking before I stop caring about what's happening. Like I still don't know how the Ouroboros work, and that's supposedly central to the game, why can there only be 6 of them at a time (extremely contrived explanation to justify the gameplay obviously), etc. The whole game is full of stuff like this. Lucky Seven, Riku, the general timeline of Aionios... It's like 0 thought was put into the worldbuilding. Stuff like homecomers not reincarnating obviously put there to make Mio's death more dramatic even though it doesn't really make any sense for Z's world to be losing people like that.

The worst part for me is that I didn't even think the characters were enough of an improvement to justify the brutal damage to the lore and worldbuilding. One of my biggest fears during prerelease was that I wouldn't like the party because at their core they were all teenagers with variations of the same child soldier background. Indeed, once I played the game I didn't like them that much either. No matter how many charming interactions the game threw at me, I just didn't find them interesting on a base level. And even then you still end up with stuff like Sena.

But the real shitfest when it comes to characters are the antagonists. My God. What were they thinking? These might very well the worst villains in any Xeno game, and they legitimately bring down the rest of story. We are talking X tier here. Depending on how much you like Lao, X might have more compelling antagonists for you. They lack character, they lack presence in the plot, they lack buildup, they are extremely one-dimensional. Some of the supposedly main villains are even dealt with Gael'gar style. They are just bad.

The amount of times I caught myself thinking "wow this is just like concept from previous game except watered down and/or unexplained" was also too high. Examples:
Noah and Mio are like Fei and Elly but worse
Consuls are like Testaments but worse
D is like Metal Face but worse
Z is like Wilhelm but worse
Origin is the almighty mcguffin like the Monado/Conduit but built by Tora (by the way when the hell did the merge happen if Tora built it? Just a few years after 1 and 2?)

A more detailed example that kinda ties with my point about villains, take N, probably the best this game has to offer when it comes to antagonists. He is kinda like Grahf, but without Krellian, without Miang, without Wiseman, without Id to bounce off of. A Grahf whose life and era that he lived in isn't properly detailed or foreshadowed. He's only left with his connection to Noah/Fei and Mio/Elly. Not only does this make him shallow but also the world around him feel empty and underdeveloped since our main antagonist is only allowed to interact with the most basic core of his character. To make yet another comparison, it's as if Jin's entire character was about Lora and only Lora, absolutely nothing beyond it, no existential doubts about blades, no connection to other characters like Malos, nothing.

I don't think I need to say anything about the final act. It's disappointing, plain and simple, and I'm sure the more people finish the game the more this will become one of the biggest points of criticism. Underwhelming explanations, last minute fetch quest, a final dungeon that drags on, N's rushed resolution, X and Y not even getting proper cutscenes, Z in general.

It's not like I dislike the game, there's a lot of stuff I like about it, even from the parts I criticize most like villains. Shania's plot resonated a lot with me for example (overdramatic evil laughters aside), N has great reactions and facial expressions (the facial expressions are great in general in this game). The side content is the best it's ever been, I'm actually enjoying it a lot more than the main quest (not sure if that's good or bad). But I really don't think this is what I want from Xenoblade in the future, a game where the setting is just an afterthought in service to whatever message is currently trying to be conveyed (another example of this that I just remembered as of writing, the City is improbably populated by only humans and nopons because the whole beauty of human life message kinda suffers if you start throwing the near immortal races from previous games into the mix, even though they clearly exist in this setting, not to mention the plot point that only the Queens live longer than other people).

Just a meh for the plot and setting from me.
 
Ketwick9844 said:
For those that finished it, how would you rank XBC3 in comparison to previous games?
Click to expand...
1. XC2
2. XC3
3. XC1
4. XCX

It’s much better then X and 1. But fails in reaching XC2 for me.
Story isn’t as good. World is worst. Characters are both equal in my opinion, But the villains in 2 is far better then any other Xenoblade game. Music is equal in quality from 2 in my opinion tho, which is super high praise

Edit: oops. My bad. I meant to put it in spoilers.
 
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People are starting to be less spoiler careful online, I think I may have to finish the game tonight if I don't want to be spoiled for real.
 
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Ketwick9844 said:
What would you rate it if you wasn't objective?
Click to expand...

Ketwick9844 said:
For those that finished it, how would you rank XBC3 in comparison to previous games?
Click to expand...

As I currently feel, I think it'd be closer to a 6 or 7. Like I said, the game succeeds I feel at its core goals, but I am left feeling unsatisfied. With respect to past games, I honestly don't know if I want to rank it in the context of them. The reasons why enjoy past Xeno Series games and the reasons why I enjoy this one don't overlap too much. All that said, it'd probably shake out like this:

XC2 > Xenogears > Torna > Xenosaga 3 > XCX > XS1 > XC3 > XC1 > FC > XS2

XC3 is probably a better game than Xenosaga 1 or Xenoblade X, but I don't like it better as a Xeno game than I do those two games.
 
Ketwick9844 said:
For those that finished it, how would you rank XBC3 in comparison to previous games?
Click to expand...
1. XC2 + Torna
2. XC3
3. XC1
4. XCX

I think with DLC XC3 could overtake XC2 for me as my favorite game of all time but as it stands XC2 is the better overall package for me (with DLC). I love all these games though.
 
Brewster123 said:
I can honestly say I have never felt as disappointed with a game I really like as I currently feel having finished Xenoblade 3. The game succeeds at its core goals (namely its characters and their interlinkages) admirably, has a excellent soundtrack, and great combat systems, with a lot of QoL changes the series sorely needed. If I were being reductive and perhaps more objective, I'd probably assign it a 8/10 rating; I really like the game and think it succeeds at what it focuses on. However, I don't think it works at all as "a culmination of Xenoblade 1 and Xenoblade 2" much at all.

Unlike previous Xeno games, which had their worlds as an area of focus, Xenoblade 3's world feels like an afterthought, with little going into it beyond just melding Xenoblade 1 and Xenoblade 2 areas. Don't get me wrong, the areas are fun to explore and are well designed, but their histories, lore, and general reason for being feel undervelopped, with the world's technology, peoples, and cultures having a similar underdevelopped feeling. To best demonstrate this feeling, I've put a few unanswered questions related to the world that I feel are important below:

  • What consolidated the feelings of regret that constitute moebius into this form? Z surely did not just poof into being. The same goes for Noah and Mio, who seemingly represent the feelings of atonement between N and M. What mechanism brought them into being?
  • What are nopon's role in the world in this game? They seem to be independent of the life harvesting systems, they don't have irises, and they seem to age normally. Why then has nobody questioned why Nopon are able to live for so long? Perhaps this, alongside their lack of a concept of aging, could be explained through Moebius's control of their culture. However, the reverse question, why haven't the Nopon questioned why humans are so short lived, is not.
  • What's the deal with anhilation events? They were among the first things we see in the game and receive several mentions in the story, but the actual cause and effect of them is completely unexplained. This is important because these anhilation events seem to occur despite the seeming stasis the world is in, and if they accumulated, could undermine the "endless now" Z and the moebius aimed to create. Its a fundamental flaw in moebius' ideology, yet it goes unmentioned.
  • What's the deal with the black fog? Is it related to the fog we saw in Future Connected? If it is, why has its effects changed from corrupting entities to its current effects, namely interfering with moebius and their systems (such as the irises)? How is it related to the annihilation events?
  • Why must the worlds' split apart at the end, and why wasn't it made more clear that this would be the end result of the party's philosophy? This could have been used to add a bittersweet element to the Ouroboros' choice. They know their choice will lead to them being separated, but they choose to do so anyway. As it stands now, it feels like a surprise twist that only serves to add a contrived bittersweet twinge to the ending.

Ultimately, it feels as though the world was written in service to the characters in this game, with it being changed and altered as needed to fit the needs of the plot. This is as opposed to previous Xeno games, where the world itself was created first and interesting places for characters were found within it. Moreover, it feels like they never at any point had a lore bible to explain the fine details of this world, which is notable for a series that started with a game that had a 300+ page publicly released lore bible.

In a vacuum, all of this is fine; as I mentioned earlier, the core focus, both emotionally and thematically, lies with the characters, which I think are really well handled and well executed. The problem lies at the intersection of 2 points: (1) This game was presented, both by Nintendo and by Takhashi himself, as a culmination of Xenoblades 1 & 2. and (2) The only substantial connection this game has with Xenoblades 1 and 2 is its world. The only characters connecting to the older games - Nia and Melia - have little screentime for justifiable reasons, so the job of culminating Xenoblade 1 and 2 is left to the world, which crumples under that burden. While its nice knowing that the core ideas that Rex and Shulk fought for continue on, very little is actual resolved here. Heck, neither the conduit nor the trinity processors, which were the key things underlining the worlds and plots of the previous 2 games, are even alluded to. Thematically, Xenoblade 3 is similar to past games, but that doesn't make it a culmination, it just makes it a retread.


"Xenoblade 3 is a really good game."


In my head, there are two versions of me. One of them is saying that. Its telling me that "The game has great character writing and uses them to deliver emotional beats that go toe to toe with the best of older games." The other one though? It keeps shouting "This is how the worlds, sagas, themes, and stories you cherished are concluded! This hollowness, this incompleteness, this sense of lost potential with a concept they'll never revisit again is how it all concludes!" And it won't stop getting louder. Perhaps in a few years time the first voice will win out. But for now, its hard for me to not feel disappointed.

Xenoblade 3 excels at what its trying to be; its just that it isn't what I wanted it to be nor what I was told it would be. And, as a huge fan of the series, it really hurts.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately i'm right there with you. I've made some longer posts of my thoughts over the past couple days, but right now all I can say is that I'm just sad, abd as of now XC2 is still my favorite entry.
 
bellydrum said:
Unfortunately i'm right there with you. I've made some longer posts of my thoughts over the past couple days, but right now all I can say is that I'm just sad, abd as of now XC2 is still my favorite entry.
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Renmazuo said:
Completely agreed.

There's only so many times I can tell my brain to just stop thinking before I stop caring about what's happening. Like I still don't know how the Ouroboros work, and that's supposedly central to the game, why can there only be 6 of them at a time (extremely contrived explanation to justify the gameplay obviously), etc. The whole game is full of stuff like this. Lucky Seven, Riku, the general timeline of Aionios... It's like 0 thought was put into the worldbuilding. Stuff like homecomers not reincarnating obviously put there to make Mio's death more dramatic even though it doesn't really make any sense for Z's world to be losing people like that.

The worst part for me is that I didn't even think the characters were enough of an improvement to justify the brutal damage to the lore and worldbuilding. One of my biggest fears during prerelease was that I wouldn't like the party because at their core they were all teenagers with variations of the same child soldier background. Indeed, once I played the game I didn't like them that much either. No matter how many charming interactions the game threw at me, I just didn't find them interesting on a base level. And even then you still end up with stuff like Sena.

But the real shitfest when it comes to characters are the antagonists. My God. What were they thinking? These might very well the worst villains in any Xeno game, and they legitimately bring down the rest of story. We are talking X tier here. Depending on how much you like Lao, X might have more compelling antagonists for you. They lack character, they lack presence in the plot, they lack buildup, they are extremely one-dimensional. Some of the supposedly main villains are even dealt with Gael'gar style. They are just bad.

The amount of times I caught myself thinking "wow this is just like concept from previous game except watered down and/or unexplained" was also too high. Examples:
Noah and Mio are like Fei and Elly but worse
Consuls are like Testaments but worse
D is like Metal Face but worse
Z is like Wilhelm but worse
Origin is the almighty mcguffin like the Monado/Conduit but built by Tora (by the way when the hell did the merge happen if Tora built it? Just a few years after 1 and 2?)

A more detailed example that kinda ties with my point about villains, take N, probably the best this game has to offer when it comes to antagonists. He is kinda like Grahf, but without Krellian, without Miang, without Wiseman, without Id to bounce off of. A Grahf whose life and era that he lived in isn't properly detailed or foreshadowed. He's only left with his connection to Noah/Fei and Mio/Elly. Not only does this make him shallow but also the world around him feel empty and underdeveloped since our main antagonist is only allowed to interact with the most basic core of his character. To make yet another comparison, it's as if Jin's entire character was about Lora and only Lora, absolutely nothing beyond it, no existential doubts about blades, no connection to other characters like Malos, nothing.

I don't think I need to say anything about the final act. It's disappointing, plain and simple, and I'm sure the more people finish the game the more this will become one of the biggest points of criticism. Underwhelming explanations, last minute fetch quest, a final dungeon that drags on, N's rushed resolution, X and Y not even getting proper cutscenes, Z in general.

It's not like I dislike the game, there's a lot of stuff I like about it, even from the parts I criticize most like villains. Shania's plot resonated a lot with me for example (overdramatic evil laughters aside), N has great reactions and facial expressions (the facial expressions are great in general in this game). The side content is the best it's ever been, I'm actually enjoying it a lot more than the main quest (not sure if that's good or bad). But I really don't think this is what I want from Xenoblade in the future, a game where the setting is just an afterthought in service to whatever message is currently trying to be conveyed (another example of this that I just remembered as of writing, the City is improbably populated by only humans and nopons because the whole beauty of human life message kinda suffers if you start throwing the near immortal races from previous games into the mix, even though they clearly exist in this setting, not to mention the plot point that only the Queens live longer than other people).

Just a meh for the plot and setting from me.
Click to expand...

Glad, but also sorry I guess to hear that others feel similarly
 
Ketwick9844 said:
For those that finished it, how would you rank XBC3 in comparison to previous games?
Click to expand...

1. XC1
2. XC3
3. XC2 / Torna
4. XCX

I do agree with a lot of what I've seen here, especially in regards to the last chapter. Not the ending specifically but I do feel like it did run out of steam towards the end, like it got bored of its own premise. That said, it doesn't really diminish the shine too much because it's an incredible game for very long stretches. Far more consistent than 2 and X were with some real narrative series high points. I do love all the Xenoblade games but this one feels like it did the most right. We continue to have Xenoblade games that "did this better than that but this worse than that" and honestly that's fine!
 
0
Thunder84 said:
Potentially unpopular opinion, but honestly I thought the main campaign took a major nosedive after the absolutely brilliant eclipse sequence.
  • After such an emotionally grueling month, Noah and Mio barely get any time by themselves to talk about what happened. They very clearly love each other by that point, and yet they don’t get anything between them whatsoever until they finally kiss at the end.
  • Both of the required side stories and the ship building quest feel very out of place. Mio’s in particular is kinda nonsense, both in how it retcons Miyabi’s death (who we barely knew about up to that point) and Cammuravi’s (who we also barely knew up to that point). Honestly, Miyabi should’ve been a Consul, and both side stories should’ve happened before the final act, which in turn should’ve just been freeing Nia, then immediately storming Origin.
  • The backstory behind Aionios, or more particularly what happened when the worlds collided, is conveyed absolutely terribly. How did Z form? How did he capture Melia? Why did he sit on his ass for so long instead of nabbing Nia too? How did the City form? How did Riku get his hands on Lucky Seven if Melia had made it thousands of years prior? Why are certain flake clocks, like Miyabi’s, a different color? There’s some stuff I’ve kinda inferred, like how the residents of the city initially came from the children of those trapped by the 10 year term limit, but there’s so much thats unexplained that it just feels sloppy. Maybe I missed something, I dunno.
  • Z is just a bad Persona antagonist shoved into the body of a Kingdom Hearts antagonist. No emotional attachment whatsoever, which undermines the spectacle that they made his boss fight out to be.
  • Speaking of which, my god was that final boss fight dreadful. Competing with XCX for the worst in the franchise. Absurdly long and constantly interrupting the fight with undeserved action sequences. The derpy Chain Attack music interrupting the final phase was funny as hell at least.
  • I’m more than fine with the worlds splitting apart, but the fact that the game barely even hints at it is just terrible. So much of the final act resolves around personal choice, and yet up until the very end there’s absolutely no weight given to your choice. If the party knew they’d be split up and reflected on that, then it’d be great. Instead, their choice just feels like the overwhelmingly obvious one with no downsides, only to then last second try and make you regret what you’ve done. It’s handled terribly.
  • Speaking of the worlds splitting, you’d think they’d play into the idea of Aionios being erased a whole lot more. The people of Aionios are themselves living beings, but the game acts like they don’t really count, and only the “true” world matters. Hell, the city residents will just be erased entirely, and even if they’re reborn, they won’t be the same people. There’s so much potential there to play into the idea of finding purpose in life, and whether your actions need to be remembered to have value. Seeing characters grapple with this idea would’ve given their choice to split the worlds apart the emotional weight it desperately needs.
  • In general, the story beats of the final act just felt kinda confused. There was a very clear setup through the first 5 chapters of experiencing and understanding life under the flame clocks, and then contrasting it to life in the City. The final two chapters feel scattershot, mostly alluding to the idea of choosing your own destiny, which doesn’t really play into the previous theme at all besides the generic connection of life.
If there’s something I’m missing here, I’d love to know, because I ultimately still love this game. The side content, world design, music, and arts combat are all superb, and I cannot wait to dig into the postgame. If I could learn to love the final act too, I would be ecstatic, but I just don’t see that happening right now.
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bellydrum said:
So, I've been formulating my thoughts on the story for the past couple days, and:

I really don't like the story and the way it was handled.

I feel dissatisfied. And I can't blame that entirely on my hopes and expectations that I had going into it - this is how I feel even without the context of the previous two games.
There are far too many questions and loose ends for me to feel comfortable saying I like the story of Xenoblade Chronicles 3.

This is my understanding of the order of events.
Most of this is derived from vague and flowery language alongside inconsistent facts and events. There are still quite some fuzzy areas, so if anybody has a magical formula that makes this all make sense, please let me know what I'm missing or have wrong.

My primary source material is the following consecutive statements from Nia, while she explained to the party the origins of Aionios and of Moebius:



Based on what we are shown and told, the order of events is as follows (as far as I can piece together):

1. The universes learn of each other - Nia, etc. (Universe A) and Melia, etc. (Universe B) discover each others existence by analyzing the rifts appearing in their respective worlds.

2. Melia and Nia learn of the collision - By sending data and radio signals (the "language of light") through these rifts, Melia and Nia were able to communicate with one another and determined that their universes were doomed and there was no way to stop their collision and ensuing destruction.

3. Melia and Nia create Origin - Melia and Nia create Origin, a supercomputer intended to persist beyond the destruction of their universes and house a "copy" of everything from both universes together in one single new universe. Everyone will still die in the collision - only the data survives and "lives" beyond.

4. Origin's boot sequence fails - At the time of the universes' collision, Origin was booted up for the first time - but it failed. The extent of its failure is unknown; we just know that it "failed".

  • The timeline of this failed boot is unclear.
  • On one hand, it must have happened before the universes' collision, because Moebius took control of Origin after its failed boot, and Moebius stopped time in both universes after he took control of Origin in order to prevent the universes' collision.
  • The only other option would be for the collision of universes, Origin attempting a boot and then failing, Moebius coming into existence, Moebius taking over Origin, and Moebius stopping time to have all happened at the same time.
  • How was Origin booted up before the universes collided?
  • Origin was created in two halves, one in either universe, which implies that the collision of the universes is what would bring both halves together and start its boot up sequence. So how could Origin boot up if its halves were in different universes?

The following events are described under the assumption that everything happens at the exact same time.

5. Moebius / X, Y, and Z appear - After (and possibly because of) Origin's failed boot sequence, an entity called Moebius springs into existence from the fears of all the life (data) contained within Origin coagulating together into fear incarnate. Moebius inexplicably takes the forms of at least three individuals, calling themselves X, Y, and Z, with Z being their "ringleader".

- The nature of X, Y, and Z in relation to Moebius is unexplained. There is no reason why a being such as Moebius would need to take these alternate forms.

6. Z takes over Origin - Z hijacks Origin in order to create his own pocket universe over which he can rule, assuaging his existence as fear incarnate.

- He also builds himself a little theater where he can watch over his creations using a film projector.

7. Z stops time to prevent the collision - Somehow, assumedly using the power of Origin, Z freezes both universes in time, preventing their progress toward their collision.

- I imagine Origin did not originally have Time Stop as one of its intended functionalities, so Z's ability to do this is completely unexplained.

8. Z creates Aionios - Now with all the time in the world, Z uses the data contained inside Origin to create his own pocket universe where time flows "naturally" as it once did in the two real universes before he stopped it. Whether this pocket universe was created around Origin or inside Origin is not sufficiently explained.

  • On one hand, Origin can be found within Aionios, making it impossible (and recursive) for Aionios to also be contained within Origin.
  • On the other hand, Origin was located in two halves, contained in the universes that were colliding, so in order for Aionios to exist "outside" Origin, it would be residing in two halves across universes that are frozen in time.

Here are some assorted questions. I'll keep adding them as I think of them.

Moebius / Z
- Why did they decide to create a villain that had no prior justification of existing in the trilogy thus far instead of tying it to the story as a whole?

Origin
- Ultimately, the world of Aionios was a simulation created using the power of Origin. So why was Origin contained inside its own universe?

The Swords
  • Was was the purpose of the Sword of Origin / Sword of the End to the story?
  • Lucky Seven was a single sword created by 7 Nopon, whereas the sword it is hidden within is Noah's manifestation that he's had in every lifetime. So is our present day Noah the only Noah that has Lucky Seven in his sword?
  • What was the significance of the Sword of Origin changing to the Sword of the End?
  • How was Noah's sword(s) significant to the final boss?

And that's without considering the story's role as a conclusion to the "Klaus saga".
I didn't need for Xenoblade 3 to connect to the first two games, and I appreciate that it did - but the way that they decided to connect the games was so tenuous, so contrived, that I can't help but feel disappointed.
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Brewster123 said:
I can honestly say I have never felt as disappointed with a game I really like as I currently feel having finished Xenoblade 3. The game succeeds at its core goals (namely its characters and their interlinkages) admirably, has a excellent soundtrack, and great combat systems, with a lot of QoL changes the series sorely needed. If I were being reductive and perhaps more objective, I'd probably assign it a 8/10 rating; I really like the game and think it succeeds at what it focuses on. However, I don't think it works as "a culmination of Xenoblade 1 and Xenoblade 2" much at all.

Unlike previous Xeno games, which had their worlds as an area of focus, Xenoblade 3's world feels like an afterthought, with little going into it beyond just melding Xenoblade 1 and Xenoblade 2 areas. Don't get me wrong, the areas are fun to explore and are well designed, but their histories, lore, and general reason for being feel undervelopped, with the world's technology, peoples, and cultures having a similar underdevelopped feeling. To best demonstrate this feeling, I've put a few unanswered questions related to the world that I feel are important below:

  • What consolidated the feelings of regret that constitute moebius into this form? Z surely did not just poof into being. The same goes for Noah and Mio, who seemingly represent the feelings of atonement between N and M. What mechanism brought them into being?
  • What are nopon's role in the world in this game? They seem to be independent of the life harvesting systems, they don't have irises, and they seem to age normally. Why then has nobody questioned why Nopon are able to live for so long? Perhaps this, alongside their lack of a concept of aging, could be explained through Moebius's control of their culture. However, the reverse question, why haven't the Nopon questioned why humans are so short lived, is not.
  • What's the deal with anhilation events? They were among the first things we see in the game and receive several mentions in the story, but the actual cause and effect of them is completely unexplained. This is important because these anhilation events seem to occur despite the seeming stasis the world is in, and if they accumulated, could undermine the "endless now" Z and the moebius aimed to create. Its a fundamental flaw in moebius' ideology, yet it goes unmentioned.
  • What's the deal with the black fog? Is it related to the fog we saw in Future Connected? If it is, why has its effects changed from corrupting entities to its current effects, namely interfering with moebius and their systems (such as the irises)? How is it related to the annihilation events?
  • Why must the worlds' split apart at the end, and why wasn't it made more clear that this would be the end result of the party's philosophy? This could have been used to add a bittersweet element to the Ouroboros' choice. They know their choice will lead to them being separated, but they choose to do so anyway. As it stands now, it feels like a surprise twist that only serves to add a contrived bittersweet twinge to the ending.

Ultimately, it feels as though the world was written in service to the characters in this game, with it being changed and altered as needed to fit the needs of the plot. This is as opposed to previous Xeno games, where the world itself was created first and interesting places for characters were found within it. Moreover, it feels like they never at any point had a lore bible to explain the fine details of this world, which is notable for a series that started with a game that had a 300+ page publicly released lore bible.

In a vacuum, all of this is fine; as I mentioned earlier, the core focus, both emotionally and thematically, lies with the characters, which I think are really well handled and well executed. The problem lies at the intersection of 2 points: (1) This game was presented, both by Nintendo and by Takhashi himself, as a culmination of Xenoblades 1 & 2. and (2) The only substantial connection this game has with Xenoblades 1 and 2 is its world. The only characters connecting to the older games - Nia and Melia - have little screentime for justifiable reasons, so the job of culminating Xenoblade 1 and 2 is left to the world, which crumples under that burden. While its nice knowing that the core ideas that Rex and Shulk fought for continue on, very little is actual resolved here. Heck, neither the conduit nor the trinity processors, which were the key things underlining the worlds and plots of the previous 2 games, are even alluded to. Thematically, Xenoblade 3 is similar to past games, but that doesn't make it a culmination, it just makes it a retread.


"Xenoblade 3 is a really good game."


In my head, there are two versions of me. One of them is saying that. Its telling me that "The game has great character writing and uses them to deliver emotional beats that go toe to toe with the best of older games." The other one though? It keeps shouting "This is how the worlds, sagas, themes, and stories you cherished are concluded! This hollowness, this incompleteness, this sense of lost potential with a concept they'll never revisit again is how it all concludes!" And it won't stop getting louder. Perhaps in a few years time the first voice will win out. But for now, its hard for me to not feel disappointed.

Xenoblade 3 excels at what its trying to be; its just that it isn't what I wanted it to be nor what I was told it would be. And, as a huge fan of the series, it really hurts.
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Renmazuo said:
Completely agreed.

There's only so many times I can tell my brain to just stop thinking before I stop caring about what's happening. Like I still don't know how the Ouroboros work, and that's supposedly central to the game, why can there only be 6 of them at a time (extremely contrived explanation to justify the gameplay obviously), etc. The whole game is full of stuff like this. Lucky Seven, Riku, the general timeline of Aionios... It's like 0 thought was put into the worldbuilding. Stuff like homecomers not reincarnating obviously put there to make Mio's death more dramatic even though it doesn't really make any sense for Z's world to be losing people like that.

The worst part for me is that I didn't even think the characters were enough of an improvement to justify the brutal damage to the lore and worldbuilding. One of my biggest fears during prerelease was that I wouldn't like the party because at their core they were all teenagers with variations of the same child soldier background. Indeed, once I played the game I didn't like them that much either. No matter how many charming interactions the game threw at me, I just didn't find them interesting on a base level. And even then you still end up with stuff like Sena.

But the real shitfest when it comes to characters are the antagonists. My God. What were they thinking? These might very well the worst villains in any Xeno game, and they legitimately bring down the rest of story. We are talking X tier here. Depending on how much you like Lao, X might have more compelling antagonists for you. They lack character, they lack presence in the plot, they lack buildup, they are extremely one-dimensional. Some of the supposedly main villains are even dealt with Gael'gar style. They are just bad.

The amount of times I caught myself thinking "wow this is just like concept from previous game except watered down and/or unexplained" was also too high. Examples:
Noah and Mio are like Fei and Elly but worse
Consuls are like Testaments but worse
D is like Metal Face but worse
Z is like Wilhelm but worse
Origin is the almighty mcguffin like the Monado/Conduit but built by Tora (by the way when the hell did the merge happen if Tora built it? Just a few years after 1 and 2?)

A more detailed example that kinda ties with my point about villains, take N, probably the best this game has to offer when it comes to antagonists. He is kinda like Grahf, but without Krellian, without Miang, without Wiseman, without Id to bounce off of. A Grahf whose life and era that he lived in isn't properly detailed or foreshadowed. He's only left with his connection to Noah/Fei and Mio/Elly. Not only does this make him shallow but also the world around him feel empty and underdeveloped since our main antagonist is only allowed to interact with the most basic core of his character. To make yet another comparison, it's as if Jin's entire character was about Lora and only Lora, absolutely nothing beyond it, no existential doubts about blades, no connection to other characters like Malos, nothing.

I don't think I need to say anything about the final act. It's disappointing, plain and simple, and I'm sure the more people finish the game the more this will become one of the biggest points of criticism. Underwhelming explanations, last minute fetch quest, a final dungeon that drags on, N's rushed resolution, X and Y not even getting proper cutscenes, Z in general.

It's not like I dislike the game, there's a lot of stuff I like about it, even from the parts I criticize most like villains. Shania's plot resonated a lot with me for example (overdramatic evil laughters aside), N has great reactions and facial expressions (the facial expressions are great in general in this game). The side content is the best it's ever been, I'm actually enjoying it a lot more than the main quest (not sure if that's good or bad). But I really don't think this is what I want from Xenoblade in the future, a game where the setting is just an afterthought in service to whatever message is currently trying to be conveyed (another example of this that I just remembered as of writing, the City is improbably populated by only humans and nopons because the whole beauty of human life message kinda suffers if you start throwing the near immortal races from previous games into the mix, even though they clearly exist in this setting, not to mention the plot point that only the Queens live longer than other people).

Just a meh for the plot and setting from me.
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It’s kind of crazy to see so many people I’ve spoken with about Xenoblade over the years all come out with a similar opinion to me.

I stand by you all.

I’ve written so much over at the other place (simply because the spoiler thread has been more active and I’ve been waiting for people here to catch up) but I’ll link to my post in the spoiler thread, just to add to the discourse.

Here it is.

I’ve probably amassed a small novel‘s worth elsewhere. I might move it all over here in a subsequent post.

Looking over that post… I’ve been far more forthright since, so I think that initial post is me being kind. lol
 
Ketwick9844 said:
I'm curious to hear where you place it in your rankings against previous games.
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Xenoblade 2: Torna - The Golden Country
Gameplay: 10 (favorite in the series)
Story: 9
Characters: 10 (favorite in the series)
Lore: 7
Themes: 8
Exploration: 10
World Design: 8
Music: 10

Xenoblade 2
Gameplay: 9
Story: 9
Characters: 8
Lore: 10 (favorite in the series)
Themes: 10
Exploration: 10
World Design: 10 (favorite in the series)
Music: 10 (favorite in the series)

Xenoblade
Gameplay: 7
Story: 9
Characters: 6
Lore: 10
Themes: 7
Exploration: 9
Music: 7

Xenoblade 3
Gameplay: 9
Story: 4
Characters: 9
Lore: 3
Themes: 5
Exploration: 10
Music: 6
 
BassForever said:
does the speed boost make it harder to move the boat around? I figure what I'll do is find and circle all the islands now (I've already done the whole perimeter), and then with the speed boost fill in the empty space between islands by using auto-accelerate
Click to expand...
Yes, it'll make it a lot harder to turn. But it's something you can toggle on and off by clicking in on the left stick. So you really only do it when you intend on going straight for a while.
 
bellydrum said:
Xenoblade 2: Torna - The Golden Country
Gameplay: 10 (favorite in the series)
Story: 9
Characters: 10 (favorite in the series)
Lore: 7
Themes: 8
Exploration: 10
World Design: 8
Music: 10

Xenoblade 2
Gameplay: 9
Story: 9
Characters: 8
Lore: 10 (favorite in the series)
Themes: 10
Exploration: 10
World Design: 10 (favorite in the series)
Music: 10 (favorite in the series)

Xenoblade
Gameplay: 7
Story: 9
Characters: 6
Lore: 10
Themes: 7
Exploration: 9
Music: 7

Xenoblade 3
Gameplay: 9
Story: 4
Characters: 9
Lore: 3
Themes: 5
Exploration: 10
Music: 6
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Ouch on the story and lore. Although I'm a bit surprised on the music.
 
Found a cool (and very memorable!) location from Xenoblade 2 I haven't seen anybody else mention yet. I took some screencaps in both games to show the comparison:

41855279-7F0A-4C50-B278-93F1CAF5CD8D.jpeg



Xenoblade 3's Place of Heroes Past in Erythia Sea. Compare with the following image:


1660234614857.png
 
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bellydrum said:
Found a cool (and very memorable!) location from Xenoblade 2 I haven't seen anybody else mention yet. I took some screencaps in both games to show the comparison:

View attachment 637

Xenoblade 3's Place of Heroes Past in Erythia Sea. Compare with the following image:

f677e480-6706-43db-ad36-b19c6c47c612-jpeg.638

View attachment 639
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That's amazing. Early on when you can see the Mechonis Sword in the distance and the Urayan titan nearby on the horizon I just kept thinking we are so lucky this game exists. So cool.
 
I’m still debating whether XC3 goes above or below XC1. Regardless of its shortcomings, I’ve definitely got it over XC2T and XC2, but I dunno if it’s my favorite one or not. Will probably depend on the side content.
 
bellydrum said:
Surprised in what way? Also, do you agree with my story and lore ratings?
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I personally think the music is up there with XBC2. As for the story and lore... Eh, let's just agree to disagree. You and a bunch of others on this thread make very compelling points espcially when it comes to Z and more specifically the Nopon and Lucky Seven, I won't deny that. However, I don't think the story or lore completely suffers because of it. How you get there through the final chapter is messy and contrived, but I personally don't think it hurts the ending or the overall story for that matter. It just slightly weakens it. At least to me.
 
For me it is easy: XB3 > XB2 > XB1

For XB3, it has the most lovable charactors and most crazy twist and emotion flow I get (which is really something I want to experience in a game)

For XB2, it has best Ending and maybe DLC to make up for the story

For XB1, oh god, it has the best world building in any JRPG and it's all time classic
 
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Monica ascension quest spoilers

this woman got pregnant at 15, she became a widow and the City boss at 19 and now at 33 she is thinking about remarrying with her brother in law (11 years younger than her, 3 years old older than her daughter) who happened to be 4 years old when she first married.
 
XC2 > XC3 > XC1

They are all really close.

XC3:
Count me way out of the "XC3 is somehow some sort of storytelling and lore failure" consensus that seems to be forming. Loved it the whole time. I'm a dummy who is way less critical by nature though.
 
One sentiment I’ve seen in this thread that I definitely don’t agree with is the music. XC3’s OST is my favorite of the franchise for sure, and I don’t think it’s particularly close.
 
It was the best of Xenoblade… it was the worst of Xenoblade. lol

I enjoy them all, but gun to my head -

XC2 > XC > XC3

I vastly prefer parts of XC3 to XC, but the latter feels like a really cohesive whole that simply works.

Still, XC3 is a great game and I’m happy that some fans absolutely love it. I wonder how it’s going to be perceived over time.

Is it finally time for fans of XC and XC2 to unite!? lol :p
 
Xenoblade 1 is still my overall favorite, that's easy enough. But trying to sort 3, 2, and X is a lot trickier. They all do really great stuff that the other don't, but they also do stuff that drags them down. Like X has some of the deepest gameplay in the series but the gloomy dark sci-fi military setting and story conflict revolving around nonsensical Lao hijinx make me not love it. And 2's the opposite where it's my least favorite combat in the series and of course has all the awful sexualization and juvenile humor, but it's also the coziest world, the best JRPG towns ever, and maybe the best story in the series - definitely has the highest highs and the best villains. One entry's weakness is another's strength and that makes it so hard to rate them. I wish I could take my favorite parts of all four and blend them together.

I still want to do a big write up on my overall thoughts for 3, I've been finding it hard to put into words. But I will say I agree with most of what Bellydrum, Brewster, and Renmauzo wrote. It might come out as my second favorite entry, but there's plenty I can point to about X and 2 that I like more despite ranking them lower.
 
BradenAndEggs said:
XC2 > XC3 > XC1

They are all really close.

XC3:
Count me way out of the "XC3 is somehow some sort of storytelling and lore failure" consensus that seems to be forming. Loved it the whole time. I'm a dummy who is way less critical by nature though.
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The main problem I think you're referring to is due to the fact that

people generally need to understand something in order to be emotionally invested in it. This is a universal facet of storytelling.
But too many questions are left unanswered, or vaguely answered, for me to feel like it successfully told a story that I felt invested in and satisfied by

That's of course fine if you were able to fully enjoy it, but I would like to know your answers to

  • what is the Sword of the End / Sword of Origin, and what power did it have?
  • what significance did the Sword of the End / Sword of Origin / Lucky Seven have to Noah that he would throw it into the ocean at the end?
  • why was Lucky Seven able to destroy Flame Clocks, while the Sword of the End / Sword of Origin was not?
  • when exactly did Z stop time? Before the collision of universes, or during?
  • if it was before, how was Origin able to boot up and fail before its halves were together?
  • if it was during, why was young Noah frozen at a point before the collision?
  • why did the world of Aionios need to separate if it was not actually a part of the two universes? Wouldn't it just be deleted?
  • why did Moebius take the form of three humans?
  • why did Z have a personality with an appreciation for theater? where did this person / personality come from? why should I care who he is if all he is is a concept?
 
bellydrum said:
  • when exactly did Z stop time? Before the collision of universes, or during?
  • if it was before, how was Origin able to boot up and fail before its halves were together?
  • if it was during, why was young Noah frozen at a point before the collision?
  • why did the world of Aionios need to separate if it was not actually a part of the two universes? Wouldn't it just be deleted?
  • why did Moebius take the form of three humans?
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After rewatching some cutscenes, I think I've figured these parts out.

Time stopped the very instant that Origin connected. Even light itself is not truly instantaneous, so the worlds did not instantaneously get destroyed upon collision, nor did Origin instantaneously initiate. In that extremely short delay between the collision of the worlds and their destruction, a time period of mere nanoseconds, if not shorter, everything froze by the power of Moebius. Then, by defeating Moebius, time resumed, and the Origin process finally initiated.

As for why Aionios split, I think that was just for dramatic effect, to showcase the party getting "ripped apart". Everything was likely fully erased shortly thereafter. Moebius likely took the form of humans due to the fact that they were born of human thoughts and fears.

Still have no idea about your other points though, someone else will need to figure those out.
 
BassForever said:
Unless the story really craters after where I am in chapter 5, I personally feel your story score is very low.
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The general consensus on here seems to be that the story is fantastic up through the start of Chapter 6. It's the final act where things bottom out for a lot of people.
 
cross posted from era

Okay, I'll try to gather my ending/overall story thoughts.

BradenAndEggs said:
I love all the Xenoblade games and I thought the ending was really well done. I feel like some of the criticism from series fans isn't about the 'ending' itself, but about the game's lack of 'direct' continuation of XC2 and XC1 stories. (I would argue there are more direct connections than people give it credit for and they never overshadow this game's story)

I think the game does a better job as a "trilogy ending" than people give it credit for as well. I'm not going to tell my fellow 300+ hour playtime Xenoblade series fans how they feel is wrong though. I just loved the ending and the game itself. Love the possibility of DLC. Any of the theorized points where DLC could tell its story sound amazing to me.

With time, once the disappointment of XC3 being more 'standalone' maybe than people expected, maybe people will warm up to it. Just give them time.
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And I'm gonna use this as a jumping off point. I completely agree. For me, after taking XC3 in, it feels a disservice to try and judge it based on the connections to previous games. But I can't even blame people who do, it was clearly marketed as a game that combines the two by Nintendo and Monolith. It's totally fair to feel it didn't live up to that expectation - that's on them for setting it.

And it's odd, because everything in XC3 shows me that it wants to be its own thing so bad. It's themes about life in general, feeling lost and without a purpose, trapped in a stasis with a fear of moving forward, the difficulty of rejecting what you've been taught your whole life, permeate through the entire game from the first cutscene through the last boss. Hell, even through the sidequests. You meet characters that interpret these themes in different ways all throughout Aionios, and the game is so unified in its message with the way it's world works and how it's characters develop.

I will say, I fully and wholly disagree with those here who didn't get Z. My theory (helped by some of yalls posts actually) is this. We take into account Nia's statement that Z "both is and isn't a man." Now let's look at Origin. Imagine a supercomputer able to house thousands or even millions of souls/consciousness, which is what we've been told it is as far as I'm aware. I'd imagine the overwhelming emotion of most, if not all, of those souls - is fear of the future, existential dread of what is coming. Their universes are about to collide, and unless this origin works, it's total annihilation.

Now, we're getting high concept, philosophical sci fi here, but from what we've been told, origin can take consciousness and inject it into a human form. THAT is what Z is. The immense existential fear that millions of people held, injected into human form. A bug in the system of Origin that wasn't foreseen. And I love that interpretation, why? There's your overall-meta sci fi twist that combines the three games right there. The villain of this game is the combined existential fear of the people of XC1 and 2's universes, turned into soul data and given human form. It’s a batshit crazy Xenoblade-level last minute sci-fi plot twist. And the best part? It works perfect thematically. Its born of humanity, it’s a giant sci-fi metaphor that’s relateable to our characters (“we all have a bit of Moebius in us”)

I'm mind boggled that people thought Z should've been Zanza V3. I thought this was much more poignant and brought the story around full circle thematically, as opposed to introducing a new villain with a ton of lore implications in the last couple hours. I think that would’ve diluted the message

It's just crazy to think how far our characters progressed. In the beginning of the game, trapped in an absolutely brutal cycle of life and death, hating their opposing nations, and by the Chapter 7 the veil is just lifted and the illusion is shattered. Takahashi is basically screaming the theme of the game to you. Getting a little personal here, but as someone in their early 20s and just out of college, who isn't depressed but is a bit lost, but doesn't really know what the future will hold, it really really hit for me. Like, I couldn't explain why, but a specific thing Nia said during the final battle to rally her troops about "I know how hard it is to take those first steps" felt like I was being personally addressed at that point lol.

Also the final boss itself was awesome, it felt like Monolith was really pushing themselves with the spectacle there. Hope there is a replay button patched in though because I can see it be ruined for people who die late in the fight and have to redo every phase.

As for greater overall lore connections, like I said, I'm okay we didn't get them for XC3. I think it helps the game stand on its own. But DLC? Sign me the hell up! I'm immensely excited for whatever they do with it.
 
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Right after finishing XC3 this was my ranking: XC2 >= XC3 >> XC1

But after digesting it further the last 8 days my ranking really is: XC2 >> XC3 > XC1

XC2 is just too good even with its flaws
 
0
Phendrift said:
cross posted from era

Okay, I'll try to gather my ending/overall story thoughts.


And I'm gonna use this as a jumping off point. I completely agree. For me, after taking XC3 in, it feels a disservice to try and judge it based on the connections to previous games. But I can't even blame people who do, it was clearly marketed as a game that combines the two by Nintendo and Monolith. It's totally fair to feel it didn't live up to that expectation - that's on them for setting it.

And it's odd, because everything in XC3 shows me that it wants to be its own thing so bad. It's themes about life in general, feeling lost and without a purpose, trapped in a stasis with a fear of moving forward, the difficulty of rejecting what you've been taught your whole life, permeate through the entire game from the first cutscene through the last boss. Hell, even through the sidequests. You meet characters that interpret these themes in different ways all throughout Aionios, and the game is so unified in its message with the way it's world works and how it's characters develop.

I will say, I fully and wholly disagree with those here who didn't get Z. My theory (helped by some of yalls posts actually) is this. We take into account Nia's statement that Z "both is and isn't a man." Now let's look at Origin. Imagine a supercomputer able to house thousands or even millions of souls/consciousness, which is what we've been told it is as far as I'm aware. I'd imagine the overwhelming emotion of most, if not all, of those souls - is fear of the future, existential dread of what is coming. Their universes are about to collide, and unless this origin works, it's total annihilation.

Now, we're getting high concept, philosophical sci fi here, but from what we've been told, origin can take consciousness and inject it into a human form. THAT is what Z is. The immense existential fear that millions of people held, injected into human form. A bug in the system of Origin that wasn't foreseen. And I love that interpretation, why? There's your overall-meta sci fi twist that combines the three games right there. The villain of this game is the combined existential fear of the people of XC1 and 2's universes, turned into soul data and given human form. It’s a batshit crazy Xenoblade-level last minute sci-fi plot twist. And the best part? It works perfect thematically. Its born of humanity, it’s a giant sci-fi metaphor that’s relateable to our characters (“we all have a bit of Moebius in us”)

I'm mind boggled that people thought Z should've been Zanza V3. I thought this was much more poignant and brought the story around full circle thematically, as opposed to introducing a new villain with a ton of lore implications in the last couple hours. I think that would’ve diluted the message

It's just crazy to think how far our characters progressed. In the beginning of the game, trapped in an absolutely brutal cycle of life and death, hating their opposing nations, and by the Chapter 7 the veil is just lifted and the illusion is shattered. Takahashi is basically screaming the theme of the game to you. Getting a little personal here, but as someone in their early 20s and just out of college, who isn't depressed but is a bit lost, but doesn't really know what the future will hold, it really really hit for me. Like, I couldn't explain why, but a specific thing Nia said during the final battle to rally her troops about "I know how hard it is to take those first steps" felt like I was being personally addressed at that point lol.

Also the final boss itself was awesome, it felt like Monolith was really pushing themselves with the spectacle there. Hope there is a replay button patched in though because I can see it be ruined for people who die late in the fight and have to redo every phase.

As for greater overall lore connections, like I said, I'm okay we didn't get them for XC3. I think it helps the game stand on its own. But DLC? Sign me the hell up! I'm immensely excited for whatever they do with it.
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I can't speak for everyone, but at least for me, the connections to XC1 and XC2 didn't really factor into my enjoyment at all. Hell, they could take out Nia and Melia entirely, and I don't really think my thoughts on the story would change that much. None of my own personal disappointment is rooted in the expectation of XC3 being a sequel/culmination/whatever.

As for Z, while your post definitely helped me understand what he is a bit better, it still doesn't really change the fact that he holds basically no connection to the main party whatsoever. They don't even meet the guy until the final battle. Zanza, Malos, and Amalthus all had multiple interactions with the party throughout the story, and all 3 had various personal connections that made defeating them all the more satisfying. Z has none of that. No matter how interesting of a concept he is, it's hard to get super invested when he amounts to nothing more than that: a concept. It's the same problem that most Persona games have, and even they tend to do it better than XC3 did.

I don't think anyone is disputing the character development either, it easily carried the plot of the game for me. But the story just kinda forgot about them in the final chapters outside of the mandatory Side Stories, one of which (Mio's) wasn't particularly good anyway. Just felt like the writers' priorities weren't in the right place at the end of the game.
 
I still haven't finished the game, but as of right now it's my top game in the franchise, followed by XCDE and XC2 (unfortunately i've never played XCX). There are some aspects that could've been better, and i'll talk about them once i'm done with it - but i'm at the beginning of chapter 7 and enjoying it. Curious to see why the ending seems to be at least a bit controversial.
 
BassForever said:
Unless the story really craters after where I am in chapter 5, I personally feel your story score is very low.
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I did hide it in spoiler tags for a reason
The end of Chapter 5 and beginning of Chapter 6 is the highlight of the game for me.
Everything after that craters to an incredible degree.
In my opinion, of course.
 
0
Phendrift said:
cross posted from era

Okay, I'll try to gather my ending/overall story thoughts.


And I'm gonna use this as a jumping off point. I completely agree. For me, after taking XC3 in, it feels a disservice to try and judge it based on the connections to previous games. But I can't even blame people who do, it was clearly marketed as a game that combines the two by Nintendo and Monolith. It's totally fair to feel it didn't live up to that expectation - that's on them for setting it.

And it's odd, because everything in XC3 shows me that it wants to be its own thing so bad. It's themes about life in general, feeling lost and without a purpose, trapped in a stasis with a fear of moving forward, the difficulty of rejecting what you've been taught your whole life, permeate through the entire game from the first cutscene through the last boss. Hell, even through the sidequests. You meet characters that interpret these themes in different ways all throughout Aionios, and the game is so unified in its message with the way it's world works and how it's characters develop.

I will say, I fully and wholly disagree with those here who didn't get Z. My theory (helped by some of yalls posts actually) is this. We take into account Nia's statement that Z "both is and isn't a man." Now let's look at Origin. Imagine a supercomputer able to house thousands or even millions of souls/consciousness, which is what we've been told it is as far as I'm aware. I'd imagine the overwhelming emotion of most, if not all, of those souls - is fear of the future, existential dread of what is coming. Their universes are about to collide, and unless this origin works, it's total annihilation.

Now, we're getting high concept, philosophical sci fi here, but from what we've been told, origin can take consciousness and inject it into a human form. THAT is what Z is. The immense existential fear that millions of people held, injected into human form. A bug in the system of Origin that wasn't foreseen. And I love that interpretation, why? There's your overall-meta sci fi twist that combines the three games right there. The villain of this game is the combined existential fear of the people of XC1 and 2's universes, turned into soul data and given human form. It’s a batshit crazy Xenoblade-level last minute sci-fi plot twist. And the best part? It works perfect thematically. Its born of humanity, it’s a giant sci-fi metaphor that’s relateable to our characters (“we all have a bit of Moebius in us”)

I'm mind boggled that people thought Z should've been Zanza V3. I thought this was much more poignant and brought the story around full circle thematically, as opposed to introducing a new villain with a ton of lore implications in the last couple hours. I think that would’ve diluted the message

It's just crazy to think how far our characters progressed. In the beginning of the game, trapped in an absolutely brutal cycle of life and death, hating their opposing nations, and by the Chapter 7 the veil is just lifted and the illusion is shattered. Takahashi is basically screaming the theme of the game to you. Getting a little personal here, but as someone in their early 20s and just out of college, who isn't depressed but is a bit lost, but doesn't really know what the future will hold, it really really hit for me. Like, I couldn't explain why, but a specific thing Nia said during the final battle to rally her troops about "I know how hard it is to take those first steps" felt like I was being personally addressed at that point lol.

Also the final boss itself was awesome, it felt like Monolith was really pushing themselves with the spectacle there. Hope there is a replay button patched in though because I can see it be ruined for people who die late in the fight and have to redo every phase.

As for greater overall lore connections, like I said, I'm okay we didn't get them for XC3. I think it helps the game stand on its own. But DLC? Sign me the hell up! I'm immensely excited for whatever they do with it.
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I expect over time I'll end up with a position closer to you. In some aspects, such as Z's role thematically/spritually and the desire to avoid Zanza 3.0, I already agree with you. However, it just feels disapointing to have the potential of this concept, of the melding of two prexisting and well known worlds, be used by a game that frankly feels uninterested in exploring what would result from that. What's the point of having the two worlds be Xenoblade 1's and Xenoblade 2's worlds if the game has chosen to focus on not the world, but the (new) characters? I think, on one hand, the game really succeeds at what its aiming for with its characters. But I think it really would have benefited from fully commiting to that, as having the legacies of the previous two games lingering in the background only serves to distract from the core focus and set expectations the game has no intention of meeting. There might be some positives to the current arrangement of the world, but the net result on my and others' outlooks on the game was negative in the end.

You point out that Z and origin could be seen as representing a sort of collective unconscious of fear from the past two games' peoples. That is probably true and quite coherent thematically with what the game is going for. However, by the point I realized that, it all just felt so hollow and artificial. Its hard to understand and appreciate what Z represents when the very nature of both him and origin is clouded in ambiguity and questions. Moreover, its hard to relate to them due to their inherently inhuman nature, which leads to the game having to tell as opposed to show. N, by virtue of being a human being whose past and mental processes are well represented and explained, does a much better job of embodying fear and regret than Z does. He, not Z, is a clear, demonstrable example of the all-too-human tendency to not act out of fear, of the desire to avoid change. As opposed to just having the party tell us, "There's a bit of Moebius in all of us." They could show us that through N. That would lead to me feeling what the game is angling for as opposed to just being told it. Ultimately, it all just feels clumsy and messy in a way that the previous two games did not. In these respects, I think N should have been the final boss. He's better explored, easier to relate to emotionally, and generally less affected by the ambiguities and unanswered questions in the world.

Continuing on, I feel the world split and inability of the two worlds to coexist was very poorly thought out. Throughout the game, a running theme has been that cultural exchange is a good thing. From the side content, where colonies interacting leads to mutual benefit, to the Ouroboros (which there can only be 6 of for some reason), where fusing nationalities unlocks incredible power, it always shown in a positive light. What then, am I to think when the game suddenly tells me at the end that these two worlds, these two cultures, cannot coexist permanently? What am I to think when, aparently, the cultural exchange the game has championed can aparently only lead to mutual anihilation? The only thing I can take away from this is that the game thinks multiculturalism is a failed endeavor. That nations and peoples should just stick to themselves with as little intermingling as possible. I don't need to tell you how much this clashes with the rest of the game thematically, and I sincerely doubt this was the intended message. That's why I think it was such a poor choice. It reeks of the writers needing a mechanism for Noah and Mio to have their bittersweet farewell and them changing the world to fit it, which is just poor form and sloppy writing.
 
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Paxie said:
How bad does it bottom out after early chapter 6? Now I'm somewhat concerned about passing that point
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It depends entirely on your expectations and perspective going into the game. The less you followed the marketing, the better off you'll be I expect.
 
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