StarTopic Nintendo General Discussion |ST20 May 2023| Every Teardrop Is A Waterfall

[shoptroll]

Watched ACG's 14 minute review of it and holy cow there were so many bugs. There's a five second clip where he shoots at a vampire and the vampire just... freezes mid-animation, and stays like that. ACG even says it's competing with the TLoU PC port for being the buggiest release of 2023. Though aside from the technical details, he also mentions how confused Redfall seems to be. It apparently doesn't even feel like an Arkane game at all. Huge, huuuge shame.

While that's pretty awful, I'd be shocked if that's not fixed early in their patch cycle. But that also means if they're letting that go out in the shipped version, they probably had far worse problems they needed to fix before launch...

 

[Instro]

Yeah what I've seen and heard about Arkane's new game is pretty disappointing. They've been heading downhill ever since Dishonored 2 and Prey underperformed. Coupled with the subsequent departure of Colantonio, it's definitely not the same. Anything Dinga Bakaba is working on on probably still worth a look, but the rest of their projects have been really mediocre/bad, and it feels like Redfall exemplifies their shift away from their previous identity.

Hopefully the MS acquisition will be good for them long term and they can get back to working on the kind of stuff that people loved them for. Not optimistic given Microsoft's current situation, but hopefully.

 

[Skittzo]

The more people you throw at a game the more discontinuous the game's code will be and the harder it will be to find and diagnose bugs.

In a way you can probably make a much less buggy game with just one programmer.

 

[curl-6]

Microsoft, every other day for the last decade: (When it comes to Xbox at least)

 

[Barely Able]

Watched ACG's 14 minute review of it and holy cow there were so many bugs. There's a five second clip where he shoots at a vampire and the vampire just... freezes mid-animation, and stays like that. ACG even says it's competing with the TLoU PC port for being the buggiest release of 2023. Though aside from the technical details, he also mentions how confused Redfall seems to be. It apparently doesn't even feel like an Arkane game at all. Huge, huuuge shame.

My favorite was the military goons just shooting into the void allowing silent kills from behind.

 

[HockeyBird]

The more people you throw at a game the more discontinuous the game's code will be and the harder it will be to find and diagnose bugs.

In a way you can probably make a much less buggy game with just one programmer.

I play a good amount of Destiny 2 and there have been an increasing number of bugs and errors in the game lately. Connection problems. Stats not working correctly. Exploits. Loot not dropping. I think many people point to the age of the game and the technical debt it has accrued over the years. The first game came out in 2014 and the sequel is built off that original code. It gets updates basically weekly and new expansions and DLC. But because the game is so old now, people who worked on the original code may have moved onto other projects or left the company entirely and any new employee has to first learn the code before making content. Bungie outsourced to another studio to make two of the DLCs. In one of those, they introduced a gun that was really good. Bungie brought it back a few years later and it was still good, to the point of it out classing all other SMGs. Bungie needed to nerf it but they couldn't figure out how to do it. It took them weeks but eventually that found that the gun had its own custom code embedded within that boosted the guns stats in some key areas. But no one at Bungie knew about it because it was originally made by someone at a different company.

I think game developer on Twitter suggested that in order to make Destiny 2 more stable, they would need to take the game completely offline for at least 4 months and just focus on working out the bugs, making no new content. Of course this being a business, Bungie can't not make new content to sell, let alone take the game offline completely so basically they and the player base just have to deal with it.

 

[xghost777]

Happy new thread-mas, everybody!

I would like to take this opportunity to bring up a discussion which started at the end of the previous thread: the new Direct Speculation thread. To briefly summarize, @Raccoon has expressed interest in posting a new thread on May 15th, and @LukasManak22 suggested that perhaps it should rotate like these General Discussion threads do.

I definitely appreciate Lukas' point here; rotating the general discussion threads and having new OPs is great, and it allows each thread to kind of have its own little twist and personality. To be honest, we could probably do more to encourage new people to have a go with these threads -- there are plenty of regular users I'd love to see have a go -- and actually in my opinion we should only really be allowing repeat hosts when the well of fresh blood has truly dried up.

However, I see the Direct Speculation threads differently. To be blunt, I don't think most people would make for a good speculation thread host. You have to be pretty invested in the speculation game, while at the same time not taking it too seriously. You'd ideally be up to date with the latest rumors and insider whisperings, but you can't take them as gospel, and nor can you dismiss them out of hand. You need to find some way to differentiate the thread from the General Discussion thread, but the thread's identity can't just be people asking when the next Direct will be. I know I'd be bad at this. So bad. Please never let me host a Direct thread.

So while I'm certainly not opposed to Lukas' suggestion, I don't think this should be a case of "whoever volunteers first who is not Raccoon or Lukas gets it". Maybe we want to allow a couple of days for others (if there are others) to volunteer, then if there are candidates other than Raccoon, we can vote as a community? Just one suggestion of course.

I was looking forward to @Raccoon hosting and if he is interested I think he should do this one since it was so close to have it called into question after he floated it for months, but I agree with @LukasManak22 I’d like to see new people get a chance to host Direct threads. Though I agree there should be some standards given the big responsibility it is and that it can potentially stretch on for months (perhaps a minimum post count of 2,000, 6 months of membership, and good community standing at least?), we’ve had two other people besides Raccoon host, Sadist and Lukas, and both threads went very smoothly. I do think others are interested too. When it was called into question @EvilChameleon expressed some interest and I know I’d be very interested in hosting this upcoming thread or a future one if it was possible.

 

[Mr_No_U]

I'd be wary of any big games releasing so close to TotK tbh. I was mostly joking when I said it before, but now I'm starting to believe my own jokey theory that if you want to hopefully minimize bad press for your troubled game, you release it during the TotK preview/review/launch period.

 

[Tatsu]

I'd be wary of any big games releasing so close to TotK tbh. I was mostly joking when I said it before, but now I'm starting to believe my own jokey theory that if you want to hopefully minimize bad press for your troubled game, you release it during the TotK preview/review/launch period.

Thats not a bad idea drown the bad press out with someone elses louder press

 

[HockeyBird]

I'd be wary of any big games releasing so close to TotK tbh. I was mostly joking when I said it before, but now I'm starting to believe my own jokey theory that if you want to hopefully minimize bad press for your troubled game, you release it during the TotK preview/review/launch period.

In Redfall's case, I think beginning of May was the last possible time for them to release. I don't think Microsoft wanted to spend more time and money on it and it's going to be all about Starfield later in the year. Suicide Squad bolted into next year because they knew it wasn't ready. Apparently EA told Respawn that they could have more time with Jedi Survivor but the director told them that a few week delay would be enough lol

Aside from those titles, was mostly barren. Companies are gearing up for June instead.

 

[Xaltmas]

Microsoft, every other day for the last decade: (When it comes to Xbox at least)

It's kind of amazing how somehow the vibes are even worse now than during the Xbox One days despite them owning Bethesda and like half a dozen other studios. Todd Howard's got to be feeling some pressure. It feels like everything is riding on Starfield and has been for a while now.

This summer would be the perfect time to finally show Fable and/or Perfect Dark. Get people excited. Because I've been an Xbox fan for a long time now and it's getting harder to stay one.

 

[Tatsu]

In Redfall's case, I think beginning of May was the last possible time for them to release. I don't think Microsoft wanted to spend more time and money on it and it's going to be all about Starfield later in the year. Suicide Squad bolted into next year because they knew it wasn't ready. Apparently EA told Respawn that they could have more time with Jedi Survivor but the director told them that a few week delay would be enough lol

Aside from those titles, was mostly barren. Companies are gearing up for June instead.

Such a shame about Redfall i am still gonna check it out on gamepass but i am not buying it now as i was gonna buy it as i like to support the devs i like especially ones that often make more nicher genres often

 

[meatbag]

my own jokey theory that if you want to hopefully minimize bad press for your troubled game, you release it during the TotK preview/review/launch period

Know what, that doesn't sound that jokey after all.

 

[SammyJ9]

It's kind of amazing how somehow the vibes are even worse now than during the Xbox One days despite them owning Bethesda and like half a dozen other studios. Todd Howard's got to be feeling some pressure. It feels like everything is riding on Starfield and has been for a while now.

This summer would be the perfect time to finally show Fable and/or Perfect Dark. Get people excited. Because I've been an Xbox fan for a long time now and it's getting harder to stay one.

I have a feeling that the XBOX event in June is going to be big, or at least they're going to try really, really hard to make it seem big. They know that they have to get people excited and really bring it, even if they don't have a ton to actually bring (if stuff like Perfect Dark, Fable, etc., are really as far out as they are reported to be). It'll be interesting to see how they frame it, since they were heavily criticized for doing the "everything was CGI trailers w/no gameplay" show a few years ago, and then last year they tried the "okay well this is all coming out within the next 12 months!" thing which was a great idea in theory but has backfired on them pretty hard with delays. I think this time it'll be more of a mix, they'll try to entice people as much as possible with big CGI-showy trailers for games that are a ways out still, and lean on lots of gameplay for Forza and especially Starfield. And I guess maybe Diablo 4? Even if the merger is on life support? They might bank on people still associating that with Microsoft now, so they can use that as a big thing that's coming out soon.

Anyway, it'll be fun to watch and see how things play out. I'm expecting some big swings, though.

 

[chocolate_supra]

I have a feeling that the XBOX event in June is going to be big, or at least they're going to try really, really hard to make it seem big.

I mean yeah



tick tock fuckers

 

[rickyson33]

I have a feeling that the XBOX event in June is going to be big, or at least they're going to try really, really hard to make it seem big. They know that they have to get people excited and really bring it, even if they don't have a ton to actually bring (if stuff like Perfect Dark, Fable, etc., are really as far out as they are reported to be). It'll be interesting to see how they frame it, since they were heavily criticized for doing the "everything was CGI trailers w/no gameplay" show a few years ago, and then last year they tried the "okay well this is all coming out within the next 12 months!" thing which was a great idea in theory but has backfired on them pretty hard with delays. I think this time it'll be more of a mix, they'll try to entice people as much as possible with big CGI-showy trailers for games that are a ways out still, and lean on lots of gameplay for Forza and especially Starfield. And I guess maybe Diablo 4? Even if the merger is on life support? They might bank on people still associating that with Microsoft now, so they can use that as a big thing that's coming out soon.

Anyway, it'll be fun to watch and see how things play out. I'm expecting some big swings, though.

there were rumors last year about some banjo thing being in development I wonder if that's ready to show

 

[Barely Able]

tick tock fuckers

Nintendo already released that game

 

[Xaltmas]

I have a feeling that the XBOX event in June is going to be big, or at least they're going to try really, really hard to make it seem big. They know that they have to get people excited and really bring it, even if they don't have a ton to actually bring (if stuff like Perfect Dark, Fable, etc., are really as far out as they are reported to be). It'll be interesting to see how they frame it, since they were heavily criticized for doing the "everything was CGI trailers w/no gameplay" show a few years ago, and then last year they tried the "okay well this is all coming out within the next 12 months!" thing which was a great idea in theory but has backfired on them pretty hard with delays. I think this time it'll be more of a mix, they'll try to entice people as much as possible with big CGI-showy trailers for games that are a ways out still, and lean on lots of gameplay for Forza and especially Starfield. And I guess maybe Diablo 4? Even if the merger is on life support? They might bank on people still associating that with Microsoft now, so they can use that as a big thing that's coming out soon.

Anyway, it'll be fun to watch and see how things play out. I'm expecting some big swings, though.

Either Fable or Perfect Dark have to show up in June in my opinion. Those two games are the big ones. There's gameplay for Avowed, Hellblade II, Contraband, Forza, and of course the Starfield showcase as well. id has also been quiet for a while, and there's Indiana Jones and the oft-rumored Wolfenstein III. Gears of War 6, State of Decay 3, The Outer Worlds 2, whatever Compulsion and inXile are up to, etc.

The games are there. They've just got to show them.

I own like five Xbox hoodies and two life-sized Lancer replicas. Before the acquisition Bethesda was my favorite-third party publisher. My vibes shouldn't be this bad.

 

[chocolate_supra]

Nintendo already released that game

I can hear this gif

 

[Yamanoi]

There was also a mini six-issue comic series that came with the 7" picture disc single of Hurts Like Heaven!

The overall album had a lot of thought and care put into it; compared to a lot of other album releases on vinyl in the last decade or so they really didn't hold back on any details.

Did you happen to get the 7" singles box set they did prior to this album?

 

[Mr_No_U]

Nintendo already released that game

 

[Irene]

Hey if we’re looking for a claim on August I’m crazy enough to do it, and I have a theme picked out already even

Nice to hear! I'll add you. (And @Aurc )

 

[HockeyBird]

I mean yeah



tick tock fuckers

They also said that Starfield would be out in 12 months from that event

 

[Xaltmas]

I mean yeah



tick tock fuckers

I hope it gets shadow dropped at the Xbox show on June 11th just to fuck with people.

 

[HockeyBird]

I think the irony of some of the Coming to Game Pass announcements is that they almost serve as advertisements for games on other systems. Like if Microsoft announces that Silksong is out now, everyone will be rushing to their Switches and PCs to buy it. The Persona 3, 4, and 5 announcements was met with a lot of people asking if that meant they were coming to Playstation and Switch.

 

[HockeyBird]

Running through a location in a game over and over again

Seeing that same location in a sequel many years later

 

[meatbag]

I think the irony of some of the Coming to Game Pass announcements is that they almost serve as advertisements for games on other systems

I mean that's how I tend to take States of Play too, they show a game and I'm like cool I'm gonna get that for Steam/Switch.

The games are there. They've just got to show them.

They really need to nail the Starfield showcase. If they can get Space Skyrim right, a lot of other niggles can be forgiven.

 

[thoughthaver]

Obviously Xbox needs to release the Xbox successor already.

you joke but they are already demanding an xbox pro. new gen barely started and they already want a new toy cuz the old toy isn't running every game perfectly

 

[Deleted member 1108]

Mario Sunshine is an extremely frustrating game. I don't what it is but the movement just feels off.

 

[Mekanos]

Mario Sunshine is an extremely frustrating game. I don't what it is but the movement just feels off.

That classic Nintendo EAD polish

 

[SammyJ9]

I hope it gets shadow dropped at the Xbox show on June 11th just to fuck with people.

"364 days is still less than 12 months, so THERE!"

I would be totally okay with this.

 

[thoughthaver]

Blockbuster Game Development Costs Are Out Of Control

Microsoft’s fight over the Activision deal reveals ballooning game budgets

kotaku.com

just a normal healthy industry engaging in normal healthy industry behavior

 

[meatbag]

you joke but they are already demanding an xbox pro. new gen barely started and they already want a new toy cuz the old toy isn't running every game perfectly

I’m pretty sure the people clamoring for that are either the tech illiterate or the tech chasers who want shiny new toys all the time anyway

just a normal healthy industry engaging in normal healthy industry behavior

AAA will have to slow things down or dial it back at some point, because endless growth isn’t sustainable. Or I guess they could also implode.

 

[juuso]

I'm at a level where I have to leave the video game channel on our company Slack to avoid TotK spoilers

 

[OTBWY]

I'm at a level where I have to leave the video game channel on our company Slack to avoid TotK spoilers

I'm avoiding spoilers too, luckily the people around me know what to expect if they spoil this stuff to me. Ever seen Carrie?

 

[Bonejack]

Uncool coming back from another 3 day weekend and seeing TotK has leaked into some people's hands ....

Well, time for me to do the one time only cheer for the Nintendo legal parts, i hope they deal with streams and other leaks swiftly.

Don't get me wrong, i have no issue if people early get their hands on it ... legally ... as long as they keep it for themselves.

 

[9-Volt]

Blockbuster Game Development Costs Are Out Of Control

Microsoft’s fight over the Activision deal reveals ballooning game budgets

kotaku.com

just a normal healthy industry engaging in normal healthy industry behavior

What funny is many of AAA games doesn't match the audience demands. They are what they are because the director's "vision". Studio heads are getting much needless creative freedom that effing everything up. Nah, man. You have to make what WE want, that's how capitalism works. Supply has to answer the demand. We want shitty graphics, smaller games but more frequent releases. Lower the budget, bigger the output, healthier the studio. And everyone is paid what they're owed.

 

[Ozeiyo]

So, apparently Redfall is bad. I know a lot of y'all were expecting this but it's still a huge shame

It is. I was looking forward to it a lot, but it looks... soulless and boring. Oh well. Still might try it out after TOTK, Jedi Survivor, and everything else.

 

[Ozeiyo]

I have a feeling that the XBOX event in June is going to be big, or at least they're going to try really, really hard to make it seem big. They know that they have to get people excited and really bring it, even if they don't have a ton to actually bring (if stuff like Perfect Dark, Fable, etc., are really as far out as they are reported to be). It'll be interesting to see how they frame it, since they were heavily criticized for doing the "everything was CGI trailers w/no gameplay" show a few years ago, and then last year they tried the "okay well this is all coming out within the next 12 months!" thing which was a great idea in theory but has backfired on them pretty hard with delays. I think this time it'll be more of a mix, they'll try to entice people as much as possible with big CGI-showy trailers for games that are a ways out still, and lean on lots of gameplay for Forza and especially Starfield. And I guess maybe Diablo 4? Even if the merger is on life support? They might bank on people still associating that with Microsoft now, so they can use that as a big thing that's coming out soon.

Anyway, it'll be fun to watch and see how things play out. I'm expecting some big swings, though.

I don't have much faith. Microsoft has been releasing duds and their marketing strategy is wild. The best game of the Series X, in its almost 3 years of life, is a rhythm brawled that shadowdropped with zero fanfare. MS is more known now for releasing half baked games and for trying (and failing) to buy ABK and delaying its big-budget games than for releasing actual good games that you would want to play on your xbox..

I don't think Starfield will be it for them, either. Bethesda has been releasing mid game after mid-game, with FO 4 being Fallout 3 but worse, and Fallout 76... whatever that was. Even if it is good and does not release like a buggy mess, I don't think it will be the game to make you buy a Series X.

I assume the next Forza will be good because FH5 was excellent, but the show itself... we all know what games are coming. They have been around the corner for ages, and none bring anything new to the table. I do hope we get some new games announced, though, and hopefully they will release soon-ish.

What funny is many of AAA games doesn't match the audience demands. They are what they are because the director's "vision". Studio heads are getting much needless creative freedom that effing everything up. Nah, man. You have to make what WE want, that's how capitalism works. Supply has to answer the demand. We want shitty graphics, smaller games but more frequent releases. Lower the budget, bigger the output, healthier the studio. And everyone is paid what they're owed.

This isn't true. People want AAA games. People Love God of War, and The Last of Us, and Assassin's Creed. People will go wild for GTA VI. Like I get what you're saying, and I want smaller, uglier games and I love AAs and indies but AAAs get the awards, they get the sales, and they are what people want.

 

[Chie]

This is probably a Longshot but I think someone here may have an answer.

I got that 3 poster set from club nintendo years ago, it was the one with the wink waker, pixel Luigi and the pikmin poster. The Luigi and Wildwater are standard sized ones I got frames for.

But the pikmin one is a weird size. It's 12.75 inches tall and 25 inches wide. I've tried to look for a 13 x 25 inch frame but I can't really find anything that isn't absurd expensive.

Anyone have any idea where to find something like this for a reasonable price.

 

[Mbolibombo]

I'm at a level where I have to leave the video game channel on our company Slack to avoid TotK spoilers

I've had 3 people message me on corp teams today that they already started TotK...
I think social media blockage the next week+ is going to be absolute must to avoid spoilers, this game is probably heavily pirated already.

 

[Bonejack]

I've had 3 people message me on corp teams today that they already started TotK...
I think social media blockage the next week+ is going to be absolute must to avoid spoilers, this game is probably heavily pirated already.

If i had to guess, they're not all incredibly lucky and got their hands on legally bought early copies, yes?

 

[Mbolibombo]

If i had to guess, they're not all incredibly lucky and got their hands on legally bought early copies, yes?

It's definitely not 'lucky' copies.. this is going to be the most pirated Nintendo game ever before it's even launched.

 

[9-Volt]

This isn't true. People want AAA games. People Love God of War, and The Last of Us, and Assassin's Creed. People will go wild for GTA VI. Like I get what you're saying, and I want smaller, uglier games and I love AAs and indies but AAAs get the awards, they get the sales, and they are what people want.

People don't "want" AAA games, people BUY AAA games. Some western AAA games has such huge marketing budgets behind them, they sell one way or another. But them being high budget is hardly a decision factor. I mean, you gave God of War as an example. Lower budget PSP entries of the series has outsold the higher budget GoW Ascension of PS3 due to marketing difference between games. Ascension didn't get any big push from Sony, like the PSP GoW titles did.

 

[mazi]

advance wars doing well

 

[Ozeiyo]

People don't "want" AAA games, people BUY AAA games. Some western AAA games has such huge marketing budgets behind them, they sell one way or another. But them being high budget is hardly a decision factor. I mean, you gave God of War as an example. Lower budget PSP entries of the series has outsold the higher budget GoW Ascension of PS3 due to marketing difference between games. Ascension didn't get any big push from Sony, like the PSP GoW titles did.

No. People buy AAA games because that is what they want to play. They want big, bombastic, cinematic games that take dozens of hours to beat, and companies are competing to deliver the AAA game that will keep you busy for the next 100 hours. I don't think it's the best model (I tend to not really care about AAA games unless they're like Zelda and I'm allergic to the Sony formula), but this is what works for people. This is why Sony dominates, and why it's been doing so since the AAA mature model became its strategy with the release of TLOU.

It's even working out for Nintendo. Mario Odyssey has been the best-selling super Mario game. BOTW has been the best-selling Zelda (and both of them are, IMO, the most AAA that their series have been). I'm not going to compare sales with NSMBU and the Link's Awakening remake (because it'd be unfair, since they're not really "new" products) but I think it's clear that they have more sales potential than lower-budget games, especially since their appeal at launch was "look at how good our flagship games look on this handheld. This is the future."

Your example is an exception, not the rule. Of course, a spin-off of God of War for the PS3 that released at the end of its life would sell less than PSP games (that were probably released at the peak of PSP hype). I think it goes beyond "just" marketing. No amount of marketing would make GoW Ascension a sales juggernaut because GoW 3 had already come out and the PS4 was only months away. It was the ODST of God of War.

 

[Lugia667]

just saw the redfall reviews and OOOF

what happened to you Arkane? This feels like dare I say Sonic Team level disaster?

 

[Leo]

Cadence of Hyrule is great, y'all, give it a try. I didn't like the demo, but playing the full game I'm addicted. Hopefully I'll be able to finish it before the trial ends, but if I don't I will gladly pay for it.

 

[Green_Meeple]

Cadence of Hyrule is great, y'all, give it a try. I didn't like the demo, but playing the full game I'm addicted. Hopefully I'll be able to finish it before the trial ends, but if I don't I will gladly pay for it.

Good to know, I believe I'll finish FEE until tomorrow, then I'll try it .
Are you playing with the whole shebang? I thought about trying it without the rhythm aspect to make it easier.

 

[meatbag]

Cadence of Hyrule is great, y'all, give it a try

Yep, didn’t like the demo either, but I’m enjoying the full game a lot, even though I have a poor sense of rhythm and keep missing beats.

what happened to you Arkane?

My theory is that they wanted to make their usual first person immersive sim, some exec stepped in and said “but what about a looter shooter” then they had to scramble and stitch together this game