Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I mean the Like-Like looking creature attached to the ceiling in the 2021 trailers that Link burns.
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Pre-Release The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Pre-Release Discussion Thread
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sanstea
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Never had a problem with the enemy variety in BotW; on the contrary, BotW has the most memorable enemy roster out of any Zelda game and I don't think that is controversial. What is more important is that the new enemies are as interesting, interactive and complex as they are in BotW. As long as that is the case I'll be extremely happy. Lynels (in all their versions) are by far the best enemies out of any Zelda game ever.
On the other hand, I definitely want more bosses. Keep the design ethos of BotW where, just like with puzzles, you can either defeat them with a typical puzzle mechanic that incorporates your special abilities and items or just completely brute-force them with weapons, but just more of them and more design variety.
On the other hand, I definitely want more bosses. Keep the design ethos of BotW where, just like with puzzles, you can either defeat them with a typical puzzle mechanic that incorporates your special abilities and items or just completely brute-force them with weapons, but just more of them and more design variety.
TheMoon
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you may yet live
but also, they have heard that "more variety" feedback. pretty sure they had to have their character/enemy designers do SOMETHING in those six years that goes beyond putting horns on Bokoblins and benches on a Talus lol
I think it sticks out to people because the main enemies - Bokoblins, Moblins, Lizalfos, Lynels, Wizzrobes - all just came in color variations or maybe they had an elemental thing. If there had been something like ReDeads or Darknuts in Hyrule Castle at least or wholly unique monsters in certain regions, it would've not seemed as "sparse" as it does with the rainbow roster of ~oblins.
Anyone think this game will be fully voice this time?
Apart from Link of course.
Apart from Link of course.
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crosspost bc the hype is creeping back in
Sunshinemario
Moblin
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Ask yourself, does Breath of the Wild have any memorable enemies aside from the main four? (Moblins, Bokoblins, Lizalfos, and Lynels)
Not really. And that isn’t a good thing, imo. I look at games like Wind Waker which have tons and tons of expressive and varied enemies, and I think BOTW easily loses in that category.
A bunch of keese and their electrical variants just don’t do it for me, sorry to say.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Guardians and their variants.
Aether
Tingle
I mean... every boss is another enemy. I dont feel like there is so much difference in behavior or moeling effort, only in size and that the boss bar is there.
with that in mind... adding a handfull of enemies, making more varieties of the old ones, and you are probably golden für this game. make some varieties more special and unique with some modifiers, like regenerationg shield skin that needs to be bombed away or something like that. and dont overuse it, but use those sparingly ins pecial places.
oh, and yeah, make enemies for special areas. as is they did kinda reuse them a little to much in different bioms.
otherwise ... i was mostly fine with the enemy variety.
Oh, and we definitely need a sky counterpart to the Lynels, for the air combat! whose will be epic.
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Nah.
As much as I would hope that Age of Calamity showcases how we're "ready" for that now, there's a part of me that thinks that Aonuma and Fujibayashi still may not see the importance of it in a proper Zelda release, yet.
That said, I'm still left wondering if Ganondorf will speak at all, and if so, who would his VA(s) be.
Sunshinemario
Moblin
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I hope it is Kargorok. I love those funny birds
But I think it is a Keese variant. The wings don’t look very, bird like.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
I think enemy variety really isn't going to be a issue here, if you lso consider that there will be a bunch of sky only enemies.
Aether
Tingle
to be fair, every enemy has more variety in behaviors then any enemy in WW. so im fine with there being less. i just feel like addign some "dumb" enemies without complex behavior to pad out the roster would be welcome.
18 in BotW, and i count roughly 24 in WW. thats not thaaat big of a difference, and looking htrough the list, i forgot most of WWs.
(i did count 4 guardian types, walking, flying, stationary and the small ones, since all of those behave differently to a degree. you can dissagree.
but while variants in WW are essentially the same with different visuals, here i see them as different enemies)
(i also did not count overworld bosses and would group those just up to bosses, since BotW also had not many of those)
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Guardians were easily one of the most memorable enemies from the first game, from the weathered one in the Great Plateau that could kill you with a single beam to the scary piano music robots that chase you on Hyrule Field to the helicopter ones that patrol Hyrule Castle and various ruins. They made thematic sense as pieces of corrupted tech disrupting nature, as shown in the very first Zelda Wii U teaser.
I trust they can make a similarly intimidating enemy in the sky setting to match the themes of an ancient civilization using spirit magic.
I trust they can make a similarly intimidating enemy in the sky setting to match the themes of an ancient civilization using spirit magic.
Sunshinemario
Moblin
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i like Guardian Stalkers, but I don’t really like Flying Guardians. There are very nonthreatening and don’t bother to pursue you. The idea of a flying Guardian is terrifying but the ones we get are ten times less intimidating then stalkers when you realize they don’t do much
sanstea
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Oh, I definitely know why, but the huge quality jump of all the enemies in comparison to the past makes more than up for it in my opinion. And combat is not the focus of gameplay and only one part of a lot of very different things you do in a Zelda games, so it is a good enough amount. You could always add more but what was there was enough in my view.
No, the old games don't even come close in my opinion. I recently replayed both TP and WW again and the normal enemy encounters (and also boss encounters) are so one-dimensional, easy, and to sum it up superficial, most of them don't even register when looking back. On the other hand, you had countless unique, individiual encounters and sometimes even never replicated scenarios in BotW with every enemy in BotW other than the Keese (which you funnily mention and are the least redesigned and simple enemies in all of BotW).
Just compare the compilations and viral videos from enemy encounters in BotW in comparison to the past. There is literally no contest. No one made compilations of fighting against enemies in past Zelda games.
As for charm, BotW's enemies have loads of charm. Wind Waker naturally have also lots of charm and I love them but that goes for the whole game. On the other handy, in terms of the encounter design they again don't come close which heavily contributes to charm in my opinion.
I also played TP like I said and there they don't even have the charm, some Wind Waker enemies at least drop their weapons which makes fights a little more interesting. In TP you essentially just press A as fast as you can against almost any enemy in that game and that's it.
I actually would heavily prefer that any non-cutscene NPC conversations only have grunts because if you want to skip or go faster through them (which is what you usually do) you end up having just sentences weirdly cut off and you basically glitch through conversations. Grunts, body and facial animation plus text are a way smoother integration for these encounters in my opinion. I prefer it that way anyway - you could also just have the option to choose between the two but I don't think that is ever any option in any game.
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yeeeesssssyesyesyes
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Upon replaying BotW last year, I realized the enemy variety wasn’t actually all that bad. It isn’t great by any means like Elden Ring, but wasn’t as bad as I had initially thought it to be.
I do believe, however, that TotK will really deliver in an ‘Elden Ring type way’ and with the speculation of there being different areas like the sky islands, the surface, and underground, that each of these will have their own unique enemies.
The Underground (I still believe this will be Demise’s Realm) for instance would feature some of Zelda’s more menacing and darker enemies: Gohma, ReDead, Gibdo, Dark Nuts, etc.
The Surface has your usual Bokoblin types, Keese, Wizrobes, etc. A lot of what we saw already in BotW with some new creature types like that frog looking thing.
And then the sky areas would be the flying Lizalfos (can’t remember the exact name, but they’re in the Sky Temple in TP), dragons, and so forth.
Of course there would be some cross-populated creatures like the Bokoblins would very like be featured in each area, but perhaps with different designs or colors to match.
I do believe, however, that TotK will really deliver in an ‘Elden Ring type way’ and with the speculation of there being different areas like the sky islands, the surface, and underground, that each of these will have their own unique enemies.
The Underground (I still believe this will be Demise’s Realm) for instance would feature some of Zelda’s more menacing and darker enemies: Gohma, ReDead, Gibdo, Dark Nuts, etc.
The Surface has your usual Bokoblin types, Keese, Wizrobes, etc. A lot of what we saw already in BotW with some new creature types like that frog looking thing.
And then the sky areas would be the flying Lizalfos (can’t remember the exact name, but they’re in the Sky Temple in TP), dragons, and so forth.
Of course there would be some cross-populated creatures like the Bokoblins would very like be featured in each area, but perhaps with different designs or colors to match.
TheMoon
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yes! re-normalize not fully voicing games
I actively do not want to have rando NPC dialogue voiced. Couldn't think of a worse idea. Just because other games let themselves be cornered into the cinematic production bloat doesn't mean it's good or useful or specifically superior to just keeping text boxes. Voiced cutscenes? Cool, keep those. They're fun. Dialogue in scenes where I'm just talking to an NPC? Text. (A), (A), (A), (A), done.
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In January 2017, after the Switch presentation, Breath of the Wild became my most anticipated game of all time. I predict that in February 2023, the exact same moment could happen for me with TotK -- though a not-insignificant part of the BotW excitement was admittedly also the new hardware. A 4K Switch announced before Zelda with a launch date on or around Zelda's, combined with a blowout trailer reminiscent of BOTW's final trailer, would probably take the cake for my most-hyped video game product ever.
Hauke_von_Arding
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Only if they remove ever language except English and Japanese. I don't see them doing a fully voiced game in multiple languages.
I thought of that too, but i feel like first off, Zelda games take too long. The third game would come like 12-13 years after the original game. Also, i feel like we do say this now cause we haven't played ToTK yet. But i want them to really put all their ideas on this game that we feel satisfied about this era at the end. I do think we all agree a sequel was a good idea since Botw really explored more the past story wise and now we can relive this great world building they achieve in the present.
balgajo
Koopa
I hope not. Not fan of the BOTW’s setting. I’d prefer something with more magic and less technology next time.
The roster was a bit weak and it will definitely get better in this game just because they will need new material and will keep some of Botw's enemies. My main hope is that we get better surprise rewards after exploration. I feel like some were really nice in Botw but most times they were just shrines. Like the huge forgotten temple and the 7 guardians of the desert quests should have had a unique reward or special boss battle to them. It was getting old a bit to know what we would get before the puzzle.
I feel like they experienced a bit with overworld bosses in Botw with Hinox, lynels, etc. But i want more of that in the sequel. That's where they can take inspiration from Elden Ring the most. It doesn't alienate the player cause you can just skip the boss since it's not a main mission and it gives difficulty to the players that wants it. The boss in general were my weak spot for Botw.
I feel like they experienced a bit with overworld bosses in Botw with Hinox, lynels, etc. But i want more of that in the sequel. That's where they can take inspiration from Elden Ring the most. It doesn't alienate the player cause you can just skip the boss since it's not a main mission and it gives difficulty to the players that wants it. The boss in general were my weak spot for Botw.
TheMoon
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meanwhile over here, me: more tech, less magic lol
(seriously, I want one Zelda where they go even harder on weird tech that is less classic fantasy-magic)
aka the zelda fandom conundrum in a nutshell
balgajo
Koopa
lol....totally!
I'm the type of person who gave up the korok seeds run because I "ruined" my save after getting the master cycle zero. That felt really strange to my Zelda truth... It's was like those dream where you wake up when you notice things aren't making sense(though it makes sense in the game setting).
I like when high tech stuff get a old mechanical coat like, for example, hookshot and spinner.
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TheMoon
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I feel the master cycle wouldn't have felt so out of place had there been more things like it, or had it not looked like a motorcycle from our world Oo
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Same.
Ever since I learned about how the original concept for the first Zelda suggested that the Triforce was really just a supercomputer, with you collecting its "microchips", I always wondered what things might have looked like if they really went full on with the idea of a more futuristic take on the series. Maybe it might have looked a bit more like Phantasy Star, if they stuck with the largely "80s space opera anime" vibe.
Aether
Tingle
yeah. im all for dialogue for important scenes, cutscenes, core characters...but not for every-fing-npc.
just feels tedious and noisy.
Oh, and i would prefere magic, they just cant go enough into the tech aspect (since it would get to nerdy and bogged down by details), so i'd ather have just magic that they dont ahve to explain. shieka was right on the edge for me, to many times i was like...that tech works like magic, explain yourself!
just feels tedious and noisy.
Oh, and i would prefere magic, they just cant go enough into the tech aspect (since it would get to nerdy and bogged down by details), so i'd ather have just magic that they dont ahve to explain. shieka was right on the edge for me, to many times i was like...that tech works like magic, explain yourself!
ZeldaPY
Bob-omb
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Some speculate the vials will only be for Link, possibly on his hand as a magic recharger type thing, but this is more of what I speculate they will be used for to activate different objects. Perhaps it’s a multitude of different things, I imagine the brief cutscene we see the green golem, Link has just activated it with one of the vials. They also could be used on things like the fire breathing shield weapon or enhancing other weapons, opening up hidden entrances to caves on the surface, controlling statues like in this case, making temporary energy bridges across sky islands or activating portals types of things.Seeing this robotic golem/serpent looking fella with green energy flowing through it reminds me of another potential feature they could bring back.
TheMoon
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you don't have to do hard sci-fi to do something interesting with more tech, as BotW's Sheikah tech showed. most popular sci-fi just goes "we found coolstuffium and now we can make pizza out of post-its".
balgajo
Koopa
Agreed. Tbh I feel much more confortable with that giant stone bird from Totk trailer than a motorcycle.
It reminds of the "how do you turn this on" cheat (love this name) from age of empires.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Aonuma heavily pushed for the motorbike to be included and it was the rest of staff that was against it until Fujibayashi conceded and decided it could be Link's horse shaped Divine Beast. Even they knew it was pushing their magitech setting which is probably why they relegated to a post game DLC reward that breaks traversal.
Aether
Tingle
and in most cases they dont do it good and i dont like it.
Mind you, it can work (Fringe, character driven, the scifi is just techno bable), but then they at least are kinda trying to find ways how it works.
I was fine with sheikah tech, but as i mentioned, more with not increasing the explanation of the technical side is just to much for me, at some point i stop and ask "are all characters stupid?" i can accept "tech as advanced that the people perceive it as magic", but when they treat it as tech, build and make stuff with it, study it, and it really does not have a clear internal consistensy how it works and whats possible or not, then im loosing it. and thats why BotW is right on the border where i can still ignore it, since the story is kinda barebones.
Its fine if you like that. for me, there are to many "scifi" stories that are just lazily written.
The problem with zelda is, they work on cool ideas and gameplay concepts, and then put a coat of "tech" over it. that works with magic , because its magic (well, you can do great magic systems (FMA, Avatar), but you don't have to.Tech just doesn't work like magic for me and cant be used in the same way.
Yeah... as a gameplay feature i love it. It is great to ride.
Lore wise... it feels off. really off. I am curious how they remove it from links arsenal in the sequel...
balgajo
Koopa
I believe they will just forget it ever existed...XD
Like people who got that giant red maned black horse.
Heron
Koopa
Aonuma should have listened - the motorbike was so out-of-place and bad. That whole DLC was strangely low-quality compared to the utter perfection of the main game. The horrible implementation of hard mode being the worst offender.
That one boss battle made up for it, but in general... disappointing.
sanstea
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I don't know what was low-quality about the DLC. Trial of the Sword is awesome, great shrines, great dungeon and boss, and Kaas was the perfect choice to expand the story. The motorcycle is a also a solid reward for essentially playing through the whole game.
I didn't like the hard mode either, though. Not a fun way to play the game.
I didn't like the hard mode either, though. Not a fun way to play the game.
Kevin360
OG Direct OP
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I just sucked at the game by the time it released, since I hadn't played it since April at that point in December. I couldn't get through the first area, and that game mechanic frustrated the crap out of me as I was trying to get my bearings straight again. I put it away and didn't touch it again until last week (basically).
sanstea
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Yeah, I would advise to take things slow and discrete in these combat challenges. Otherwise, I can see how it can be overwhelming and frustrating.
Kevin360
OG Direct OP
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I used to be able to jump from game to game, and not have to relearn the controls, but the older I've gotten, the more I have to focus on one game at a time.
It took me (ironically) forever to play any games this fall because (ignoring Hurricane Ian devastating our area) I was trying so hard to get back into Horizon Forbidden West after shelving it for Elden Ring in February. I was determined to like the game and finish it, because I enjoyed the first game after I finished BOTW in 2017, but knew that if I put it down one more time I'd probably never return to it.
Finally hit me last week that I should just play what I want to play, and I was craving BOTW in anticipation of TOTK.
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Trial of the Sword was awesome. The shrines were awesome, as was the dungeon.
What was’t awesome was how it made no efforts to capture the sense of discovery and adventure that made the game so precious for many people. The content was (imo) haphazardly pasted into the map, and the discovery of the content was tedious and bore no resemblance to the game proper. They really just pasted tiny map .jpgs on pillars and said “go find them”
Also the One-Hit Obliterator segment being a barrier for entry was not a great choice.
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There was also a promise of more story during its announcement, and the amount of “story” was really negligible.
Kevin360
OG Direct OP
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This was it for me. I consider myself decently adept at games when I give them a fair shake, no matter the difficulty, but I just wasn't having fun with this segment and finally (subconsciously) gave up.
sanstea
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Well, "pasted tiny map .jpgs on pillars" is pretty abstract way of saying treasure hunt maps, which is what they are. Standard quests every open-world game has and BotW had a few of them in the main game as well.
Seems to me you wanted a completely new area to explore, which I can definitely see. I didn't think it was haphazardly pasted into the map, though, the places were fit for what they wanted to do (combat challenges, new shrine and new dungeon).
As for the one-hit obliterator, it was a fun challenge just like the Trial of the Sword but I can also see how one can find it frustrating. I thought it was a nice way to challenge you again, after the endgame is kind of a Metroid endgame experience.
TheMoon
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classic exampleAgreed. Tbh I feel much more confortable with that giant stone bird from Totk trailer than a motorcycle.
It reminds of the "how do you turn this on" cheat (love this name) from age of empires.
btw what I'm trying to get at is mostly visual design/aesthetics, I don't want toasters or planes or cars or "real world" stuff. also, just reiterating, I just want one game to go hard on that, then we can go back to might n magic!
BotW almost got there except that the techie part was relegated to the Sheikah stuff and not reflected in the rest of the world really.
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You won’t get me to change my mind on these “treasure hunts” being a good gameplay mechanic that’s actually congruous with the main game’s appeal. And I 100% stand by the haphazard comment. The original map was carefully crafted for discovery and drawing the players eyes towards locations, rarely requiring the map or demanding them to go anywhere. Encountering DLC content was all map icons and map scanning. I wanted them to capitalize on what made the original game such an excellent experience. If a new area is what that took, so be it, but it’s not my job to devise the compelling content, so I’m not going to say that’s the only way it could have been accomplished.
You say Breath of the Wild had treasure hunts, but they were never a highlight of the game, and being a staple of other open world titles isn’t really praise.
The DLC scored pretty low or middling at quite a few outlets. It wasn’t bad or broken as a whole, but it was so far removed from Breath of the Wild’s core loop that it continues to make me question just how much we can rely on Tears of the Kingdom to hit the mark. I’m just choosing to believe they parked any of the actually good or ambitious ideas for Tears at the expense of the DLC.
So yeah, agree to disagree.
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D
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I actually loved hunting for the memories. But the jpeg pillar thing from the DLC was one of the weakest parts of the whole game to me even still lollol
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Fair enough - but as I said, it wasn’t a densely administered part of the game. You’d reach new regions, perhaps spot the painter, and go for a quick hunt. That whole process was far better integrated into the whole of the experience than the DLC.
*Edited my original post a bit :]
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I think this makes sense. That green 'magic meter' from the 2014 demo makes me think they had a more holistic magic mechanic planned instead of the Shiekah Slate cooldown (unless that green bar was stamina which I'm skeptical of), so reviving that idea seems like something they'd do. They've even brought back this idea of using vials to store energy.
Link's shooting up that forbidden sauce.
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