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Pre-Release Pokémon Scarlet and Violet — Pre-release Discussion Thread (UPDATE: new trailer, see threadmarks)

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given how intertwined gym progression was to story progression (arbitrarily, I might add), that's why we think that the text also means gyms can be done in any order.

but due to the lack of specifics (like if there's even gyms), I posit that it could just mean that gyms and the story are disconnected and that gyms (or whatever) are still linear. I could just be paranoid though, because of Game Freak



Breath of the Wild feels like it had a great way of handling this with you being able to high tail it to Ganon. pokemon could adapt this by skipping the story missions entirely and go for all the gyms and become champion before you even "start" the story. and vice versa

maybe, thanks to the school setup, being champion isn't actually the end all be all. maybe you need "graduation points" or some shit, and you can get that however (aside from saving the world). become champion, be a contest champion, etc.

I think this is a good video that brings up the issue with open worlds and their sense of progression. Pokemon Legends is touted as a good method for its style of game even


Legends Arceus had the ranking requirements to progress, but Let's Go also incorporated some new requirements for accessing Gyms, most notably Fuschia Gym requiring 50 Pokémon registered before you could challenge Koga. I could see SV's progression having similar roadblocks to what LGPE had (clearing dungeons as in RBY, level requirements, Pokédex completion).
 
Legends Arceus had the ranking requirements to progress, but Let's Go also incorporated some new requirements for accessing Gyms, most notably Fuschia Gym requiring 50 Pokémon registered before you could challenge Koga. I could see SV's progression having similar roadblocks to what LGPE had (clearing dungeons as in RBY, level requirements, Pokédex completion).
what helped Legends was that catching pokemon was the point of the game. it's easier to swallow that way, while the other games, the point is to just become champion. a bit more of an annoyance when that requirement wasn't in the original.

with SV going back to the older format, I don't see Let's Go's requirements coming back. especially not if they remove the no-battling catching that Legends had
 
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To be fair, that linearity problem is quite common in open world games
I agree that their wording seems careful so far, but Pokemon's story structure is so open that it'd be a huge missed opportunity to linearize it unnecessarily. The gameplay and level scaling challenges they'd need to overcome wouldn't be nearly as difficult as some other open world games; it's practically begging to be opened up a la BotW.

In other words, you're not wrong (I even had the same thought when I first read it), but I hope it's nonlinear anyway. The anime has hinted at gym leaders having different teams for challenges with different numbers of badges before; I'd love to finally see that in action.

Edit: Actually, I think I'm misremembering with the anime. But still, it's just so... obvious.
 
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One thing that could be interesting is if they let you go to any gym in any order, BUT the gym's pokemon are always the same level no matter what. So you can go to gym 8 immediately, but it's still full of level 50 pokemon, or something.

Of course there'd have to be some reason or incentive to do harder gyms first, otherwise what would be the point? You'd end up just doing them in order of pokemon levels anyway. Plus if you DID manage to beat a really late gym early, you'd just be that much more OP going back to earlier gyms.

So I guess the more I think about this the more I don't think that's a great idea. Level scaling gyms based on number of badges owned or something to that effect seems like the route they'd go, to me.
 
One thing that could be interesting is if they let you go to any gym in any order, BUT the gym's pokemon are always the same level no matter what. So you can go to gym 8 immediately, but it's still full of level 50 pokemon, or something.

Of course there'd have to be some reason or incentive to do harder gyms first, otherwise what would be the point? You'd end up just doing them in order of pokemon levels anyway. Plus if you DID manage to beat a really late gym early, you'd just be that much more OP going back to earlier gyms.

So I guess the more I think about this the more I don't think that's a great idea. Level scaling gyms based on number of badges owned or something to that effect seems like the route they'd go, to me.
Something that's imo rather underappreciated and under-explored in Pokemon is the fact that you have an unlimited supply of lower level Pokemon to use if things are getting too easy. You're not locked into using the same team for a level 50 gym as you are the next one. I utilized this a fair amount in Pokemon Legends: Arceus in order to avoid overleveling (specifically, I had a primary team for story content and a more fluid secondary team for filling out the Pokedex), and in the era of the always on EXP Share I think that's the way I'm always going to do it moving forward. It's rather nice that if I miss lower level content until late game, it doesn't have to be a pushover if I don't want it to be.
 
Something that's imo rather underappreciated and under-explored in Pokemon is the fact that you have an unlimited supply of lower level Pokemon to use if things are getting too easy. You're not locked into using the same team for a level 50 gym as you are the next one. I utilized this a fair amount in Pokemon Legends: Arceus in order to avoid overleveling (specifically, I had a primary team for story content and a more fluid secondary team for filling out the Pokedex), and in the era of the always on EXP Share I think that's the way I'm always going to do it moving forward. It's rather nice that if I miss lower level content until late game, it doesn't have to be a pushover if I don't want it to be.
I've always hated this playstyle and the general "handicap yourself to have fun". It also goes against the idea of building the best team because at that point, I'm building an intentionally shitty team.

Legends was the first time where I felt I had to swap out team members for composition reasons. As bullshit as the balancing was, it was the first time I felt challenged without handicapping myself. In pve, I think they could stand to skew the balance in difficulty modes like Arceus did.
 
this has been changed to the pre-release discussion thread since the game is still a ways off and all talk about it seem to happen in this thread. also merged a few of the older threads into this one, and threadmarked the starting posts.
 
There are two main ways to tackle the open-world design :

- Most cities/gyms are reachable from the begining. Pokemon and Trainers have a fixed team however. It is pretty much a linear design dressed as an open one.

- Most cities/gyms are reachable from the begining. Polemon and Trainers scale depending on the number of badges you have. That would however require way more work, in order to make potentially 8-9 different teams for each trainers. The design would be fully open here however.

They can split the open-world by using the sea/river as natural roadblocks to make things more easy on that front.

Lots of possibilities.
 
I've always hated this playstyle and the general "handicap yourself to have fun". It also goes against the idea of building the best team because at that point, I'm building an intentionally shitty team.
I agree with the sentiment of hating handicapping yourself, but it just doesn't feel like that in Pokemon - and "intentionally shitty" doesn't describe what I'm doing at all. I'm not actively making my main team worse, I'm just not feeding them every ounce of available XP. And again - that's still the team I'm using for pretty much every bit of story content.

Swapping them out lets me catch more Pokemon and grind out levels to evolve more Pokemon for the Pokedex without worrying about the starter being 5 levels higher than the gym leader's ace every time. Additionally, the fact that leveling/evolving more Pokemon actually accomplishes a major gameplay goal really helps to avoid making it feel like an intentional handicap instead of just doing more side content along the way. Couple that with the fact that the movesets I favor for catching Pokemon are different than the ones I like for battling trainers, and it all just synergizes very well. It reminds me somewhat of Expert Mode from Xenoblade DE, which I adored.

I'd still prefer the option to just turn the EXP Share off, but mitigating it hasn't been nearly as unfun as I suspected it would be.
 
I agree with the sentiment of hating handicapping yourself, but it just doesn't feel like that in Pokemon - and "intentionally shitty" doesn't describe what I'm doing at all. I'm not actively making my main team worse, I'm just not feeding them every ounce of available XP. And again - that's still the team I'm using for pretty much every bit of story content.

Swapping them out lets me catch more Pokemon and grind out levels to evolve more Pokemon for the Pokedex without worrying about the starter being 5 levels higher than the gym leader's ace every time. Additionally, the fact that leveling/evolving more Pokemon actually accomplishes a major gameplay goal really helps to avoid making it feel like an intentional handicap instead of just doing more side content along the way. Couple that with the fact that the movesets I favor for catching Pokemon are different than the ones I like for battling trainers, and it all just synergizes very well. It reminds me somewhat of Expert Mode from Xenoblade DE, which I adored.

I'd still prefer the option to just turn the EXP Share off, but mitigating it hasn't been nearly as unfun as I suspected it would be.
prior to Legends, I never found catching pokemon fun or worthwhile. all you get a shiny charm or whatever. without any meaningful motivation, I just caught what I found cool and just stuck with a general party of 6 + whatever caught my fancy. it's not unusual for me to become champion with less than 50 or something pokemon registered.

I don't remember a time where I was so grossly overleveled, and I fight every trainer I come across while avoiding random battles due to tedium. I find the easiness comes from the type matchups rather than raw stats/leveling. aside from some gotchas, just knowing the type matchups let you steamroll the gyms. it's largely predictable because the game's meta is balanced around a prediction-heavy competitive meta

because of all that, exp share doesn't bother me because I don't feel it's the actual problem, it's how they handle balancing and scaling. Legends was busted, but it was fun because of it for me
 
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So I guess the more I think about this the more I don't think that's a great idea. Level scaling gyms based on number of badges owned or something to that effect seems like the route they'd go, to me.
It's interesting, because in Pokemon: Origins, that's exactly the gist of how gym battles worked. Red hit up Brock's gym first, and Brock is on screen shown going "this is your first gym? I'll use these two Pokemon then", picking two Pokeballs from a tray that had six.
 
There are two main ways to tackle the open-world design :

- Most cities/gyms are reachable from the begining. Pokemon and Trainers have a fixed team however. It is pretty much a linear design dressed as an open one.

- Most cities/gyms are reachable from the begining. Polemon and Trainers scale depending on the number of badges you have. That would however require way more work, in order to make potentially 8-9 different teams for each trainers. The design would be fully open here however.

They can split the open-world by using the sea/river as natural roadblocks to make things more easy on that front.

Lots of possibilities.
I guess I'd like a mix of both?

SwSh already introduced a solution to high-level wild Pokemon by simply barring you from catching them. I'd kinda want some areas to have that sense of danger, or at least a goal to aim towards. Fixed high-level trainers would also work if used intelligently and sparingly.

At the same time, Crystal Clear showed scaling based on badges can work. I have a few problems with the implementation (being able to challenge gyms repeatedly invalidates a lot of the game), but the idea is definitely sound. But again, I'd want some fixed level stuff - a totally scaled world can get stale very quickly, when you realise that you're kinda standing still as the world moves around you.
 
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the trailer broke 6M. the professors got people actin up
I always underestimate just how much of a boost going into “open world” genre can do for a lot of games.

This is nightly impressive for this trailer. Didn’t really show off a lot of the game, but the Open World aspect and multiplayer must be such huge things for most that I’m looking forward to see how it performs. I think if the excitement stays intact when it releases and gets decent scores, it’ll beat Sword and Shield easily
 
I pre-Ordered Scarlet. This will be my first Pokemon EVER, never played one, not even the mobile one that was fashion some years ago. Do you know what i should expect ?

It's like a normal RPG with the catch'em all twist with plot and all or it's just catching Pikachus and fight other people for theirs?
 
I pre-Ordered Scarlet. This will be my first Pokemon EVER, never played one, not even the mobile one that was fashion some years ago. Do you know what i should expect ?

It's like a normal RPG with the catch'em all twist with plot and all or it's just catching Pikachus and fight other people for theirs?
It's an RPG. Wild Pokémon can be captured, and you can add them to your party to use in battles.
 
So.... Riddler Khu (a semi-reliable leaker and also an ass) seems to have possibly leaked something about Sprigatito's evolution

He says in a tweet (account protected) that it stands up/is bipedal in its final evolution. He could be trolling but only tends to troll a hated rumour account on Twitter. Grain of salt obviously but people gonna be annoyed if true.
 
So.... Riddler Khu (a semi-reliable leaker and also an ass) seems to have possibly leaked something about Sprigatito's evolution

He says in a tweet (account protected) that it stands up/is bipedal in its final evolution. He could be trolling but only tends to troll a hated rumour account on Twitter. Grain of salt obviously but people gonna be annoyed if true.
I'm not even gonna be annoyed any more at this point, just disappointed.
 
I pre-Ordered Scarlet. This will be my first Pokemon EVER, never played one, not even the mobile one that was fashion some years ago. Do you know what i should expect ?

It's like a normal RPG with the catch'em all twist with plot and all or it's just catching Pikachus and fight other people for theirs?
The games have never been renowned for their stories, but they have them, yes. That said, a decent bit of the plot pretty much is catching Pikachus and fighting other people's Pikachus. They've also included a villain trying to use a super powerful Pokemon (the one on the box of each game) for world domination and stuff, but that tends to be presented as the B-plot to becoming the best battler around.

Also - not sure if that was just a typo, but you don't win other people's Pokemon if you beat them lol.
 
honestly, it should not be to hard to hav emultiple teams for the gyms, and just change them depending how far the player is with other gyms.
Story progression... honestly, doesnt even need to be "scaled". Open world does not mean "everything needs to be doable all the time".
If a story fight is to hard, go catch pokemon, train, search trainers, go to gyms...
having everything scale would just not work.
 
Also - not sure if that was just a typo, but you don't win other people's Pokemon if you beat them lol.

Actually i was under the impression that you kept the pikachus you won from other people. Thanks for your answers and clarifiying, this is actually news to me.
 
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I knew we'd be getting news for the preorders, but I wasn't expecting a full presentation. Hoping to see some more of the world
 
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letsgooo-letsgo.gif
 
Note that in the tweet they say "news about apps and videogames, including scarlett and violet". Does that means that we are getting more games? Maybe Arceus DLC?
 
It’s the “and video games” part of this that excites me, because they mention Scarlet and Violet are included, not just the main focus.
 
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I'm sure they consider things like Go and Unite "video games", I wouldn't expect new game announcements for Switch, or anything beyond a small-scope event for Arceus. Detective Pikachu 2 would be nice though!
 
Unite and Masters are also a lock because of the playlist updates, but that isn't surprising.
 
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If S/V plays similarly to Arceus - but has a functioning LOD system unlike the latter - this'll be my first Pokémon game.

still have some qualms about the concept of capturing and pitting wild animals but at least pokemon tries to address this
 
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I'm sure they consider things like Go and Unite "video games", I wouldn't expect new game announcements for Switch, or anything beyond a small-scope event for Arceus. Detective Pikachu 2 would be nice though!
Nah I don't think they do, I think it may mean some new announcements.
Hopefully for the apps, Pokemon Sleep and Detective pikachu switch for video games.
 
I'm sure they consider things like Go and Unite "video games", I wouldn't expect new game announcements for Switch, or anything beyond a small-scope event for Arceus. Detective Pikachu 2 would be nice though!
I disagree. I'm pretty sure they used this same wording before and had new announcements.
 
can't remember the last time I was this hyped for a Pokemon game. Can't wait for wendesday!
 
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