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StarTopic Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST8| Press Your (Nintendo Direct) Luck!

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Super Metroid should never be remade because virtually any tweaks would make it worse. At most, you can add options on it like more button mapping options, but Switch / Wii U VC already has that covered.
 
Number1000DKFan said:
This opinion is gonna get me roasted, but 64 is my least favorite 3D Mario
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we need more of this tbh. it shouldn't be controversial to say 64 is the worst 3D Mario from a gameplay and level design standpoint even if you take into context its release date and the platform it's on
 
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broke: ground-up remakes of Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time when all we really need are remasters of 64DS/OoT3D
woke: ground-up remakes of Sunshine and Windwaker so they can realize their full unrushed potential

(also Super Metroid is like a top-5 game for me as is but I'd totally be down for a "bring it up to Samus Returns/Dread standards" remake. Best case scenario, they pull an RE4 and they make one of the greatest games ever ... again; worst case scenario, we'll always have the original)
 
Mario 64's controls and physics are more busted than its acolytes are willing to admit, and it's getting harder and harder to argue that it's still the gold standard of 3D platformer gameplay, but also they haven't made a 3D Mario that's half as fun to control in over a decade. They massacred him in 3D Land and he still hasn't recovered.
 
Stilt Village said:
Mario 64's controls and physics are more busted than its acolytes are willing to admit, and it's getting harder and harder to argue that it's still the gold standard of 3D platformer gameplay, but also they haven't made a 3D Mario that's half as fun to control in over a decade. They massacred him in 3D Land and he still hasn't recovered.
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Yeah they did it’s called Super Mario Odyssey.
 
Stilt Village said:
Mario 64's controls and physics are more busted than its acolytes are willing to admit, and it's getting harder and harder to argue that it's still the gold standard of 3D platformer gameplay, but also they haven't made a 3D Mario that's half as fun to control in over a decade. They massacred him in 3D Land and he still hasn't recovered.
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nah, "fun to control"-wise they massacred him in Galaxy. He steadily got better after those games and is at his peak in Odyssey
 
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Super Mario 64 is my favorite game of all time, but unlike Super Metroid my second favorite game of all time, I am open to Nintendo touching it. Primarily if it was remade, the main thing I’d want is more levels. Don’t touch Mario’s movement, but they can play with the camera potentially specifically around edge cases where the camera doesn’t cooperate like the top of Big Boo’s Mansion. I’m 50/50 on touching the graphics or not regardless of how much people would want that. The original look is excellent and distinct. I’d be worried it’d turn out like the Super Mario RPG remake where they’d reduce the edge of it that gives it its personality.
 
Make Hazy Maze Cave and Rainbow Ride better. I hated going into Hazy Cave. Just modern day cameras will make getting stars better.
 
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I really doubt Nintendo ever makes remakes on the scale of Rebirth for any of their games, ever.
They'd just make new games
 
Ab said:
I really doubt Nintendo ever makes remakes on the scale of Rebirth for any of their games, ever.
They'd just make new games
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That does seem to be the running problem. I think Metroid, Fire Emblem and Xenoblade would all be prime cases where they could do something like that due to them being series that have established stories and world building that are far more ridged, but even then... nah.....
 
Dark Cloud said:
Yeah they did it’s called Super Mario Odyssey.
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BlackthornOrion said:
nah, "fun to control"-wise they massacred him in Galaxy. He steadily got better after those games and is at his peak in Odyssey
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Galaxy movement is massively underrated, and Odyssey movement is even more overrated.

Galaxy is a blatant downgrade from Sunshine with the removal of the fancier stuff and the floatier and more deliberate speed, but it still retains the core of what made Mario fun to control in its momentum. It's not as limited as it seems either, they do some crazy stuff in Galaxy 2 speedruns. By no means the pinnacle of the series, but it deserves more respect than it gets.

Odyssey is an upgrade from the molasses 3D Place games, but despite expanding the moveset back out it still has way too much of the sanitized and constrained feel of those games, where they successfully removed the jank that always plagued 3D Mario, but at the expense of no longer having any meaningful inertia, which was the core of what used to make sandbox Mario feel good to play.

The long jump just kills me to use here, it feels like an invisible hand grabs him and pulls him to a stop at the end of it. You never see speedrunners use it for the boost anymore because it's gone, now the only way you get speed is shaking the controller to roll like it's Donkey Kong Country Returns on Wii. And the whole thing ends up really overcentralized around cappy bounce, so Mario has all these moves that always chain into a cappy bounce, spamming that same fighting game combo input over and over.

It's not terrible or anything, it's a lot snappier and more flexible than its immediate predecessors, and it is arguably the most powerful Mario moveset in terms of what it can do, but I just don't find it enjoyable like the older games at all because it doesn't really play much like them despite sharing a lot of the same abilities. Even Galaxy feels closer to 64 than Odyssey does.
 
World got a good update with the increased movement speed, just wish it got rollback netcode to make the multiplayer work.

Or just World 2 with rollback from Retro or NST?
 
Stilt Village said:
it still has way too much of the sanitized and constrained feel of those games, where they successfully removed the jank that always plagued 3D Mario, but at the expense of no longer having any meaningful inertia, which was the core of what used to make sandbox Mario feel good to play.

The long jump just kills me to use here, it feels like an invisible hand grabs him and pulls him to a stop at the end of it.
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think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this because, ngl, this is exactly how I would describe Galaxy's movement. Right down to the momentum-less long jump that just feels bad to use

Galaxy's moveset has always to me felt sanitized and constrained, necessarily so in service of a much more linear and "set piece"-focused approach to level design that requires players have fewer options for exploration or creative path-finding; whereas Odyssey is (imo) pretty much the complete opposite of that ethos, giving players a bunch of tools that ultimately aren't necessary for basic completion but encourage stringing moves together to build up momentum and find out what's possible within the game's playground-like levels
 
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BlackthornOrion said:
nah, "fun to control"-wise they massacred him in Galaxy. He steadily got better after those games and is at his peak in Odyssey
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Agree, controlling Mario in Odyssey hadn't felt that good since Sunshine.
And Galaxy movement is just awful: So slow, floaty, no dive. And the game just doesn't let you build up momentum.

The levels are much more linear so it's understandable in a way, but damn my opinion of SMG gets worse every time i replay through it.
 
Magic-Man said:
All 20+ year old games deserve a remake or remaster. I'm shocked that this is somehow an unpopular opinion.
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People should play more old games as they were originally presented and try to play/enjoy them on their terms. Remaking and remastering games takes time that could and should be spent elsewhere especially if it’s just primarily an attempt at a graphics bump that may or may not 100% work out.
 
Magic-Man said:
All 20+ year old games deserve a remake or remaster. I'm shocked that this is somehow an unpopular opinion.
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I think reviving classic art and preserving what makes it a classic is really hard. Nintendo is obviously loaded with talent but I think even they would struggle to remake games like Mario 64 and Super Metroid without accidentally messing them up. Heck, they already proved it with Mario 64!
 
The idea that video games need to be remade every 20 years sounds absolutely exhausting and far away from the direction I want the industry to go to
 
BlackthornOrion said:
nah, "fun to control"-wise they massacred him in Galaxy. He steadily got better after those games and is at his peak in Odyssey
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Personally I think Odyssey has the worst controlling 3D Mario until 3D World (Switch) decided that doubling everyone's speed but not changing any of the level design was a good idea so none of the platforming flows well with anyone. Galaxy definitely has a lot less abilities to mess around with, but I think what makes Galaxy Mario so fun to control is abusing gravity.

Odyssey Mario has just a very strange amount of inertia that I could never get used to, and cap jumping just feels terrible input wise. Dives not having any momentum whatsoever is so stupid and missed the entire point of why I liked it so much in 64 and Sunshine.
Sunshine Mario is still Mario's peak of movement, spin jumps and side flips just feel wonderful in that game. If only the game wasn't cracking under the pressure of you playing it normally.
 
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xghost777 said:
People should play more old games as they were originally presented and try to play/enjoy them on their terms. Remaking and remastering games takes time that could and should be spent elsewhere especially if it’s just primarily an attempt at a graphics bump that may or may not 100% work out.
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I have tried, but I can't get into them because of the graphics and/or controls. Super Metroid is a big example. The game seems amazing, but I can't stand how it plays. And Super Mario 64 would be great if it didn't have the worst camera known to mankind. I didn't grow up with these games like some of y'all did, and a lot of other people haven't either. There's a reason why remakes are so popular.
 
Magic-Man said:
I have tried, but I can't get into them because of the graphics and/or controls. Super Metroid is a big example. The game seems amazing, but I can't stand how it plays. And Super Mario 64 would be great if it didn't have the worst camera known to mankind. I didn't grow up with these games like some of y'all did, and a lot of other people haven't either. There's a reason why remakes are so popular.
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Yep. People of today don’t need to go back and play anything from my old times. I love these games, but sorry about all of them are outdated. The creators should be happy to want to make modern versions for people to play today.
 
I played Super Metroid for the first time in 2021 and thought it was the most atmospheric and engaging 2D game I'd ever played

I played Super Mario 64 for the first time in 2022 and thought it might be the best video game I'd ever played

these games should be made available as they were, they don't need remakes
 
Magic-Man said:
I have tried, but I can't get into them because of the graphics and/or controls. Super Metroid is a big example. The game seems amazing, but I can't stand how it plays. And Super Mario 64 would be great if it didn't have the worst camera known to mankind. I didn't grow up with these games like some of y'all did, and a lot of other people haven't either. There's a reason why remakes are so popular.
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I don’t know how much you played of any particular game or how you approached it so it’s not like I can judge from a distance here (nor do I want to) and there’s a chance these games aren’t for you which is totally fine, but in general give these games another shot is really all I can say. Make sure you play around with button mapping for Super Metroid to the extent that is available to you to find a control set up that is comfortable (I recommend Y for running and B for jumping to mimic Mario in particular). Just because you didn’t care for it, doesn’t mean the physics should be touched even if you might prefer they are different. Smoothing out “imperfections” in remakes loses character and can have knock on effects that can cause trouble elsewhere. Someone suggested in this thread changing how wall jumping behaves, but on its own terms, you aren’t necessarily supposed to know wall jumping is a thing in the game until the game teaches you about it. Having that knowledge radically changes how you approach the game so making it more naturally intuitive would trivialize traversal and compromise the map design.

As for Mario 64, Lakitu zoomed out can handle 98% of the game with minimal fuss. I know you were going for hyperbole to sell your point, but it is not “the worst camera known to mankind” by any stretch.
 
If absolutely anything I think they aughta do what Square did with Trials of Mana. Do a remake for the people who want a remake, and do a port for the people who want the original. Link's Awakening was a full remake, and eventually they put the original on NSO. If they remake Super Metroid, at least the original will be on NSO. I'm okay with that.

What would worry me is stuff like Live A Live where they totally remake it and decide that's the definitive edition therefore no reason for the original to be made available. I'm really afraid of them doing that to Chrono Trigger.
 
Dark Cloud said:
Yep. People of today don’t need to go back and play anything from my old times. I love these games, but sorry about all of them are outdated. The creators should be happy to want to make modern versions for people to play today.
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If people don't "need" to go back and play old games, then they don't "need" remakes either.
 
I joke often about Pokémon Colosseum remake. But honestly that game is completely fine in its orignal state.

Maybe just add saving anywhere as a QOL feature.

My random thinking
 
chocolate_supra said:
If absolutely anything I think they aughta do what Square did with Trials of Mana. Do a remake for the people who want a remake, and do a port for the people who want the original. Link's Awakening was a full remake, and eventually they put the original on NSO. If they remake Super Metroid, at least the original will be on NSO. I'm okay with that.

What would worry me is stuff like Live A Live where they totally remake it and decide that's the definitive edition therefore no reason for the original to be made available. I'm really afraid of them doing that to Chrono Trigger.
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Aside from the fundamental remasters/remakes take time angle, I know I would be less bitter towards game remakes/remaster releases on the whole if they made an effort to include the original experience alongside the new version. More toggles for specific improvements/additions would be welcome too.

Also as for Chrono Trigger, that’s the situation for Final Fantasy VI 🫠
 
I'm not even particularly against remakes, I think a lot of remakes have enhanced a game to even greater heights. But I can't get behind the idea that every game needs to be remade or that they should replace the original. Sometimes it's good to be forced out of your comfort zone and play older games or watch older movies. Heck, even for games a lot of the times there are mods and emulation tricks you can use to make the experience smoother. Just throwing up your hands and waiting for a publisher to fund a remake instead of trying to meet the original game on its own terms just feels short sighed to me.

This isn't even getting into the fact that Mario 64 and OOT are likely not going to get another remake for a long time. Nintendo has no reason to.
 
Mekanos said:
I'm not even particularly against remakes, I think a lot of remakes have enhanced a game to even greater heights. But I can't get behind the idea that every game needs to be remade or that they should replace the original. Sometimes it's good to be forced out of your comfort zone and play older games or watch older movies. Heck, even for games a lot of the times there are mods and emulation tricks you can use to make the experience smoother. Just throwing up your hands and waiting for a publisher to fund a remake instead of trying to meet the original game on its own terms just feels short sighed to me.

This isn't even getting into the fact that Mario 64 and OOT are likely not going to get another remake for a long time. Nintendo has no reason to.
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Not everyone has access to a computer capable of emulating and modding, or knows where to find them, or even wants to go through the hassle at all. Older movies are not an appropriate comparison to make here, as the basics have been the same since the talkies first started. Games have vastly changed in the same time period.

Some things just age, and it's okay to wish for updates. Otherwise we'd all be using the same tech and appliances we used decades ago.
 
Magic-Man said:
Not everyone has access to a computer capable of emulating and modding, or knows where to find them, or even wants to go through the hassle at all. Older movies are not an appropriate comparison to make here, as the basics have been the same since the talkies first started. Games have vastly changed in the same time period.

Some things just age, and it's okay to wish for updates. Otherwise we'd all be using the same tech and appliances we used decades ago.
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Viewing and considering art like it’s a dishwasher in need of replacing and updating is dire.
 
To be honest, I feel like if remakes and remasters didn't exist in the abundance that they are currently there would be a lot more lay offs and closures than there currently are. AAA development is expensive and takes longer than ever. If they didn't have these to fill in the gaps you'd see a lot more gaps in the release schedule too.
 
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Magic-Man said:
Not everyone has access to a computer capable of emulating and modding, or knows where to find them, or even wants to go through the hassle at all. Older movies are not an appropriate comparison to make here, as the basics have been the same since the talkies first started. Games have vastly changed in the same time period.

Some things just age, and it's okay to wish for updates. Otherwise we'd all be using the same tech and appliances we used decades ago.
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This is a pretty incurious way to view art tbh, but that's not my problem
 

Planned obsolescence - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
In 1924, the American automobile market began reaching saturation point. To maintain unit sales, General Motorsexecutive Alfred P. Sloan Jr. suggested annual model-year design changes to convince car owners to buy new replacements each year, with refreshed appearances headed by Harley Earl and the Art and Color Section. Although his concept was borrowed from the bicycle industry, its origin was often misattributed to Sloan.[9] Sloan often used the term dynamic obsolescence,[10] but critics coined the name of his strategy planned obsolescence.

This strategy had far-reaching effects on the automobile industry, product design field and eventually the whole American economy. The smaller players could not maintain the pace and expense of yearly re-styling. Henry Ford did not like the constant stream of model-year changes because he clung to an engineer's notions of simplicity, economies of scale, and design integrity. GM surpassed Ford's sales in 1931 and became the dominant company in the industry thereafter. The frequent design changes also made it necessary to use a body-on-frame structure rather than the lighter, but less easy to modify, unibody design used by most European automakers.
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xghost777 said:
Viewing and considering art like it’s a dishwasher in need of replacing and updating is dire.
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Mekanos said:
This is a pretty incurious way to view art tbh, but that's not my problem
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I didn't mean to literally compare art to a dishwasher lol. I guess a more appropriate comparison would be remastering black and white films into color or 4K.
 
Raccoon said:

Planned obsolescence - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
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oooooh buddy don't get me started 🤣

An even more devious part of planned obsolescence is that now automakers literally design parts to fail earlier because the profit margins on repairs are huge compared to that of the actual cars. Like they'll sell cars at near cost nowadays because they know each car sold will generate thousands and thousands in repairs over its lifetime, and customers who don't want to get caught with the bill for those repairs will be paying on warranties that are typically scheduled to expire before any of the parts are designed to break down, so they basically get you twice.

Fuck I hate new cars.
 
the only Mario 64 remake I'd want is a raytraced version that looks like the 90s renders

(this alright exists for PC gamers!)

mario-64-ray-tracing.jpg
 
Magic-Man said:
I didn't mean to literally compare art to a dishwasher lol. I guess a more appropriate comparison would be remastering black and white films into color or 4K.
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tbf, colorizing old movies isn't exactly free of controversy either. There was plenty of pushback from some big names when Ted Turner got it in his head that "color is just an across-the-board improvement over black&white, so if I own classics like Casablanca and Citizen Kane, why shouldn't I add color to them"

www.mentalfloss.com

‘Colorizers’: When Ted Turner and Hollywood Clashed Over Colorizing Classic Movies

The media mogul didn’t hesitate to alter classic movies: “The last time I checked, I owned the films.”
www.mentalfloss.com www.mentalfloss.com

e: I'd actually say the back-and-forth detailed in that article isn't wholly dissimilar to a lot of the usual points of discussion when it comes to video game remakes. Basically weighing increased commercial viability and general audiences' willingness to engage with media by bringing something "dated" up to "modern standards" versus undermining/disregarding artistic decisions made at the time and risking the introduction of new/different choices that the original creators may not have made even if they'd had the technology to do so back then
 
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I'm all for remakes of licences that have never been released outside Japan. I was very happy to discover and enjoy Famicom Detective Plus, Super Mario RPG and I hope Fire Emblem 4 will be next. I haven't had a chance to discover the licence yet, so to do with one of Japan's best-loved titles would be great !

I'm all for remakes of niche licences like Advance Wars, Another Code Recollection and so on. Yes, it's better to have new games but unfortunately, the risk seems to be too big. I'd rather have remakes than nothing at all.

For the rest, it's case by case. I'm very happy to have Paper Mario TTYD or Link's Awakening, especially if Nintendo don't want to make another new 2D Zelda.
But Mario vs Donkey Kong or Kirby's Return to Dream Land.... Meh.
 
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