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Pre-Release Bayonetta 3 — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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Honestly...I never did complete my Bayo 1 playthrough on the Switch version, I just like going back to Bayo 2 a lot.
Funny thing is I like 2 a lot more but I’ve barely played it in comparison to the first one. And I’m not someone who’s been playing since the original release, I’ve only ever gotten the double packs on the two Nintendo consoles
 
Ooh Tuesday, not bad. A day earlier than usual for Nintendo reviews

The game looks like a banger and I'm expecting to see that reflected in the reviews (by it just barely missing the 90 mark)

XC3's embargo was also 3 days before the release of the game instead of 2. Seems like something Nintendo is going with for some games at least.
 
Racist people just need an excuse.
What really blew my mind was everyone who was calling HIM racist for blocking people who were harassing him in english. And none of them could explain why should he be expected to deal thoughtfully and patiently with every troll out there raining shit on him in a language that he isn’t naturalised in. Bonkers logic
 



The best preview I've seen is this one in Spanish. It goes very in-depth about the combat system and gameplay reservations like the summons or not being able to equip weapons to hands and feet. It also has a lot of footage not present in other previews.

You can turn on translated subtitles if you don't know Spanish.
 



The best preview I've seen is this one in Spanish. It goes very in-depth about the combat system and gameplay reservations like the summons or not being able to equip weapons to hands and feet. It also has a lot of footage not present in other previews.

You can turn on translated subtitles if you don't know Spanish.

This video is amazing, thanks a lot for sharing!

I hadn't heard about this before, so if anyone is interested, here's how invocations/Demon Slave work:
  • Invocations are not tied to your equipped weapon: You can be using the guns, transform into Madama Butterfly but summon Gomorrah at the same time.
  • So you can switch weapons and invocations independently.
  • The bar on the bottom-left controls how long invocations last.
  • The bar depletes fast when invocations are present, but it also fills very fast, so it's easy to have enough energy to summon something at any moment.
  • You can cancel invocations at any time.
  • Bayonetta is vulnerable while performing invocations (this looks lame, but keep on reading...;)).
  • Each demon has it's own combo routes (PKP, PPKKK...).
  • This is the big one: The Punch and Kick button prompts that we've seen when an invocation was present are not "QTE"s but an input buffer.
So what does all of this mean? It means that you can summon Gomorrah, input a combo into the input buffer and then cancel the invocation. Gomorrah will perform the combo you told it on its' own, while you regain control of Bayonetta and do your thing. As you have cancelled the invocation, you can switch to a different demon later in the combo and summon it again, so Demon Slaves become a mechanic that you have to regularly integrate in your combos. The number of possibilities explodes, even more if you factor in weapon switching and transformations! It's like a step further in the direction of Astral Chain, where instead of summoning Legions so they can do their own pre-set thing, you can control them directly, give them orders and set them free to follow them (the Demon Slave name makes more sense than ever to me now). Cancelling is very fast, so you can summon, input the combo and regain control as fast as you can perform the inputs 🤩

It's not clear if you can summon two demons at the same time (probably not) but we'll see, that would be crazy.

9 days...!!
 
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I still need to buy mine, waiting for the reviews first, but unless it's really bad (does not seem to be the case), I will buy it regardless of meta score
 
This video is amazing, thanks a lot for sharing!

I hadn't heard about this before, so if anyone is interested, here's how invocations/Demon Slave work:
  • Invocations are not tied to your equipped weapon: You can be using the guns, transform into Madama Butterfly but summon Gomorrah at the same time.
  • So you can switch weapons and invocations independently.
  • The bar on the bottom-left controls how long invocations last.
  • The bar depletes fast when invocations are present, but it also fills very fast, so it's easy to have enough energy to summon something at any moment.
  • You can cancel invocations at any time.
  • Bayonetta is vulnerable while performing invocations (this looks lame, but keep on reading...;)).
  • Each demon has it's own combo routes (PKP, PPKKK...).
  • This is the big one: The Punch and Kick button prompts that we've seen when an invocation was present are not "QTE"s but an input buffer.
So what does all of this mean? It means that you can summon Gomorrah, input a combo into the input buffer and then cancel the invocation. Gomorrah will perform the combo you told it on its' own, while you regain control of Bayonetta and do your thing. As you have cancelled the invocation, you can switch to a different demon later in the combo and summon it again, so Demon Slaves become a mechanic that you have to regularly integrate in your combos. The number of possibilities explodes, even more if you factor in weapon switching and transformations! It's like a step further in the direction of Astral Chain, where instead of summoning Legions so they can do their own pre-set thing, you can control them directly, give them orders and set them free to follow them (the Demon Slave name makes more sense than ever to me now). Cancelling is very fast, so you can summon, input the combo and regain control as fast as you can perform the inputs 🤩

It's not clear if you can summon two demons at the same time (probably not) but we'll see, that would be crazy.

9 days...!!

Thanks for this breakdown.
It really sounds like they are taking the best elements of Wonderful 101, Astral Chain and maybe even Scalebound and fusing it all together for this.

Also, controllable summons was the natural evolution of the DMC/Bayo character action genre, so it feels like a real forward step.

AAAAALSO, the environments and enemy variety from Bayo3 trailers alone stomps on DMCV.

Yes, next week we are getting the next big character action game.
 
Anyone heard anything about UK physical copies of Bayo 1?

They were initially supposed to be released in multiple stores a few weeks back but were delayed to the first half of October and only on My Nintendo Store. But that has now passed and as far as I can tell they haven't went up yet.
 
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Thanks for this breakdown.
It really sounds like they are taking the best elements of Wonderful 101, Astral Chain and maybe even Scalebound and fusing it all together for this.

Also, controllable summons was the natural evolution of the DMC/Bayo character action genre, so it feels like a real forward step.

AAAAALSO, the environments and enemy variety from Bayo3 trailers alone stomps on DMCV.

Yes, next week we are getting the next big character action game.
Yeah! It feels like we're FINALLY getting the next evolution of the character action genre :).
DMC1 started it all, DMC3 and Bayonetta perfected it (17 years ago!), but everything since then have been small incremental evolutions (DMC4 & 5, Bayonetta 2, MGR...) or experiments too wild to take the mantle as the new representatives of the genre (TW101, AC...). Astral Chain specially did a lot to make the genre something more than "Fight in an arena->Walk through a corridor to the next arena->Repeat". Bayo 3 seems to present a real evolution of its' combat system + huge environments that are something more than spatial filler between arenas. A bit of Metroidvania with the new traversal options that the transformations provide will be a very nice addition (though I don't know how to do it without it becoming tiring on repeated playthroughs).

BTW, do you guys think that we'll also get to fight angels and demons this time? It would be a bit of a waste not to take advantage of the excellent cast of enemies that the series already has.
 
This video is amazing, thanks a lot for sharing!

I hadn't heard about this before, so if anyone is interested, here's how invocations/Demon Slave work:
  • Invocations are not tied to your equipped weapon: You can be using the guns, transform into Madama Butterfly but summon Gomorrah at the same time.
  • So you can switch weapons and invocations independently.
  • The bar on the bottom-left controls how long invocations last.
  • The bar depletes fast when invocations are present, but it also fills very fast, so it's easy to have enough energy to summon something at any moment.
  • You can cancel invocations at any time.
  • Bayonetta is vulnerable while performing invocations (this looks lame, but keep on reading...;)).
  • Each demon has it's own combo routes (PKP, PPKKK...).
  • This is the big one: The Punch and Kick button prompts that we've seen when an invocation was present are not "QTE"s but an input buffer.
So what does all of this mean? It means that you can summon Gomorrah, input a combo into the input buffer and then cancel the invocation. Gomorrah will perform the combo you told it on its' own, while you regain control of Bayonetta and do your thing. As you have cancelled the invocation, you can switch to a different demon later in the combo and summon it again, so Demon Slaves become a mechanic that you have to regularly integrate in your combos. The number of possibilities explodes, even more if you factor in weapon switching and transformations! It's like a step further in the direction of Astral Chain, where instead of summoning Legions so they can do their own pre-set thing, you can control them directly, give them orders and set them free to follow them (the Demon Slave name makes more sense than ever to me now). Cancelling is very fast, so you can summon, input the combo and regain control as fast as you can perform the inputs 🤩

It's not clear if you can summon two demons at the same time (probably not) but we'll see, that would be crazy.

9 days...!!

😰

Hot damn. Ever since V in DMC5 kicked off the idea (albeit undercooked) of having a "puppetmaster" playstyle integrated into a stylish action game, I always hoped that more would be done with it. Astral Chain was a good start, certainly, but everything I'm reading here sounds every BIT like what I wanted from this type of thing all along.

And it only seems al the more fitting, considering Bayonetta has always had the summoner motif going for her.

BTW, do you guys think that we'll also get to fight angels and demons this time? It would be a bit of a waste not to take advantage of the excellent cast of enemies that the series already has.

A previous video showed what looked to be an Alfheim/Muselpheim like bonus area that dropped in a slew of Bayonetta 2 enemes. And we also know, thanks to the Game Informer article, that Halos are still an in-game currency, but will be both much rarer to come by and will be tied to a different reward system.

So, my guess is that we probably will see some rogues from the past game show up. I just hope it won't overly rely on such. Like, don't bring back Grace and Glory (or even better, Gracious and Glorious), if they're going to be as nerfed as Bayo2 did them.
 
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This video is amazing, thanks a lot for sharing!

I hadn't heard about this before, so if anyone is interested, here's how invocations/Demon Slave work:
  • Invocations are not tied to your equipped weapon: You can be using the guns, transform into Madama Butterfly but summon Gomorrah at the same time.
  • So you can switch weapons and invocations independently.
  • The bar on the bottom-left controls how long invocations last.
  • The bar depletes fast when invocations are present, but it also fills very fast, so it's easy to have enough energy to summon something at any moment.
  • You can cancel invocations at any time.
  • Bayonetta is vulnerable while performing invocations (this looks lame, but keep on reading...;)).
  • Each demon has it's own combo routes (PKP, PPKKK...).
  • This is the big one: The Punch and Kick button prompts that we've seen when an invocation was present are not "QTE"s but an input buffer.
So what does all of this mean? It means that you can summon Gomorrah, input a combo into the input buffer and then cancel the invocation. Gomorrah will perform the combo you told it on its' own, while you regain control of Bayonetta and do your thing. As you have cancelled the invocation, you can switch to a different demon later in the combo and summon it again, so Demon Slaves become a mechanic that you have to regularly integrate in your combos. The number of possibilities explodes, even more if you factor in weapon switching and transformations! It's like a step further in the direction of Astral Chain, where instead of summoning Legions so they can do their own pre-set thing, you can control them directly, give them orders and set them free to follow them (the Demon Slave name makes more sense than ever to me now). Cancelling is very fast, so you can summon, input the combo and regain control as fast as you can perform the inputs 🤩

It's not clear if you can summon two demons at the same time (probably not) but we'll see, that would be crazy.

9 days...!!
All of this sounds fantastic. Even though Astral Chain was a comparatively simpler game, the way legions worked made for very dynamic moment-to-moment gameplay, imo. If they're really expanding those systems without sacrificing Bayo's usual gameplay, this could be something very special.
 
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This video is amazing, thanks a lot for sharing!

I hadn't heard about this before, so if anyone is interested, here's how invocations/Demon Slave work:
  • Invocations are not tied to your equipped weapon: You can be using the guns, transform into Madama Butterfly but summon Gomorrah at the same time.
  • So you can switch weapons and invocations independently.
  • The bar on the bottom-left controls how long invocations last.
  • The bar depletes fast when invocations are present, but it also fills very fast, so it's easy to have enough energy to summon something at any moment.
  • You can cancel invocations at any time.
  • Bayonetta is vulnerable while performing invocations (this looks lame, but keep on reading...;)).
  • Each demon has it's own combo routes (PKP, PPKKK...).
  • This is the big one: The Punch and Kick button prompts that we've seen when an invocation was present are not "QTE"s but an input buffer.
So what does all of this mean? It means that you can summon Gomorrah, input a combo into the input buffer and then cancel the invocation. Gomorrah will perform the combo you told it on its' own, while you regain control of Bayonetta and do your thing. As you have cancelled the invocation, you can switch to a different demon later in the combo and summon it again, so Demon Slaves become a mechanic that you have to regularly integrate in your combos. The number of possibilities explodes, even more if you factor in weapon switching and transformations! It's like a step further in the direction of Astral Chain, where instead of summoning Legions so they can do their own pre-set thing, you can control them directly, give them orders and set them free to follow them (the Demon Slave name makes more sense than ever to me now). Cancelling is very fast, so you can summon, input the combo and regain control as fast as you can perform the inputs 🤩

It's not clear if you can summon two demons at the same time (probably not) but we'll see, that would be crazy.

9 days...!!
Really excited for the demon shenanigans in this game

I generally love summoner-type characters in games (hell, I even liked V in DMC V quite a bit) and this just seems like the pinnacle of that. Being able to seamlessly tag in and out with your demons is amazing and the fact that you can regain control automatically at any point is probably what we should've expected from a Platinum title. There's going to be some wild combos with these but since I'm a noob I'm probably just going to spam them willy nilly while grinning ear to ear
 
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Switching between regular Bayo, demon masquerade and demon slave is gonna be insane

Do we know if you can have two weapons to switch between? I’m not talking about hands/feet, I’m talking about how you could switch between 2 loadouts
 
This video is amazing, thanks a lot for sharing!

I hadn't heard about this before, so if anyone is interested, here's how invocations/Demon Slave work:
  • Invocations are not tied to your equipped weapon: You can be using the guns, transform into Madama Butterfly but summon Gomorrah at the same time.
  • So you can switch weapons and invocations independently.
  • The bar on the bottom-left controls how long invocations last.
  • The bar depletes fast when invocations are present, but it also fills very fast, so it's easy to have enough energy to summon something at any moment.
  • You can cancel invocations at any time.
  • Bayonetta is vulnerable while performing invocations (this looks lame, but keep on reading...;)).
  • Each demon has it's own combo routes (PKP, PPKKK...).
  • This is the big one: The Punch and Kick button prompts that we've seen when an invocation was present are not "QTE"s but an input buffer.
So what does all of this mean? It means that you can summon Gomorrah, input a combo into the input buffer and then cancel the invocation. Gomorrah will perform the combo you told it on its' own, while you regain control of Bayonetta and do your thing. As you have cancelled the invocation, you can switch to a different demon later in the combo and summon it again, so Demon Slaves become a mechanic that you have to regularly integrate in your combos. The number of possibilities explodes, even more if you factor in weapon switching and transformations! It's like a step further in the direction of Astral Chain, where instead of summoning Legions so they can do their own pre-set thing, you can control them directly, give them orders and set them free to follow them (the Demon Slave name makes more sense than ever to me now). Cancelling is very fast, so you can summon, input the combo and regain control as fast as you can perform the inputs 🤩

It's not clear if you can summon two demons at the same time (probably not) but we'll see, that would be crazy.

9 days...!!
Oh my Jesus Christ. This is incredible this game gonna be godlike isn't it? Also I can see them implementing this in astral chain. Bruh P* your future is bright with Nintendo.🥹🥹🥹🥹
 
Switching between regular Bayo, demon masquerade and demon slave is gonna be insane

Do we know if you can have two weapons to switch between? I’m not talking about hands/feet, I’m talking about how you could switch between 2 loadouts
Yep we still have two weapons that can be swapped between. I am curious why people keep referring to Masquerade as its own thing though? From what I've seen it just seems like Wicked Weaves + Panther Within but with Alternate Forms + Some super move

Like visually it's really cool and I like it more than Wicked Weaves, and the movement options they provide probably have combat utility, but I don't think it's that significant a change to the combat system unless I'm missing something
 
Yep we still have two weapons that can be swapped between. I am curious why people keep referring to Masquerade as its own thing though? From what I've seen it just seems like Wicked Weaves + Panther Within but with Alternate Forms + Some super move

Like visually it's really cool and I like it more than Wicked Weaves, and the movement options they provide probably have combat utility, but I don't think it's that significant a change to the combat system unless I'm missing something
I thought they were pretty much Devil Triggers. They seem to have their own moveset no?
 
I thought they were pretty much Devil Triggers. They seem to have their own moveset no?
Not that I've seen at least, but maybe I'm missing something indicating that?

They seem to just be finishers on existing combos like Wicked Weaves were, but with maybe some additional specific moves when coming out of using them for movement (effectively a dash attack)
 
Not that I've seen at least, but maybe I'm missing something indicating that?

They seem to just be finishers on existing combos like Wicked Weaves were, but with maybe some additional specific moves when coming out of using them for movement (effectively a dash attack)
Maybe I need to rewatch the Ways of Witch trailer but I feel like I saw them moving around and attacking as more than just finishers, but it could be that
 
Maybe I need to rewatch the Ways of Witch trailer but I feel like I saw them moving around and attacking as more than just finishers, but it could be that
I think they're more like Devil Triggers, with their own movesets and special effects. Madama-Bayo makes a dancing move that summons a lot of kicks ahead of her (which I haven't seen normal Bayo do) and Gomorrah-Bayo shoots blue flames. Maybe Phantasmaraneae-Bayo tangles foes in webs like the demon summon does. It looks to be a sort-of Umbran Climax mode where all attacks have special properties (fire for Gomorrah, webs for Phantasmaraneae, Wicked Weaves for Madama) but hopefully not as game-breaking.
 
I think they're more like Devil Triggers, with their own movesets and special effects. Madama-Bayo makes a dancing move that summons a lot of kicks ahead of her (which I haven't seen normal Bayo do) and Gomorrah-Bayo shoots blue flames. Maybe Phantasmaraneae-Bayo tangles foes in webs like the demon summon does. It looks to be a sort-of Umbran Climax mode where all attacks have special properties (fire for Gomorrah, webs for Phantasmaraneae, Wicked Weaves for Madama) but hopefully not as game-breaking.
Madama-Bayo's multi kick dance is definitely the best evidence I've seen for Masquerades having their own moveset, since it doesn't seem to finish a combo, but I could also see that being a special input move. The blue flame attack from Gomorrah Bayo, at least from what I've seen, seems to be a finisher for Gun combos with the G-Pillar, or an attack out of the Gomorrah form dash

I mean, ultimately it's not like you can separate the Masquerades from the weapons so the distinction between Masquerade and normal moveset might end up blurry, but I don't think it's like a Devil Trigger where you can press a button to summon and keep the form with its own specific moveset (I mean, for one, where's the gauge to keep track of that sort of form? The only Masquerade-related gauge I've seen talked about is the one for the special "Masquerade Rage" screen clear move). I think it's much more likely to be a situational transformation that's just integrated into the weapon movesets
 
Madama-Bayo's multi kick dance is definitely the best evidence I've seen for Masquerades having their own moveset, since it doesn't seem to finish a combo, but I could also see that being a special input move. The blue flame attack from Gomorrah Bayo, at least from what I've seen, seems to be a finisher for Gun combos with the G-Pillar, or an attack out of the Gomorrah form dash

I mean, ultimately it's not like you can separate the Masquerades from the weapons so the distinction between Masquerade and normal moveset might end up blurry, but I don't think it's like a Devil Trigger where you can press a button to summon and keep the form with its own specific moveset (I mean, for one, where's the gauge to keep track of that sort of form? The only Masquerade-related gauge I've seen talked about is the one for the special "Masquerade Rage" screen clear move). I think it's much more likely to be a situational transformation that's just integrated into the weapon movesets
Maybe it shares the bar with the Demon Slaves, like the Magic Bar in Bayo 2 was used for Umbran Climax, Torture Attacks and some special moves like the instant WW stomp, the crow teleport (was it called Umbran Spear?)...I'm pretty sure that you can keep the form as we've seen footage of Bayo just exploring the levels outside of combat... but maybe it won't use any gauge at all outside of combat as that would restrict your movement if you ran out of energy. We'll know for sure in just 8 days!
 
This video is amazing, thanks a lot for sharing!

I hadn't heard about this before, so if anyone is interested, here's how invocations/Demon Slave work:
  • Invocations are not tied to your equipped weapon: You can be using the guns, transform into Madama Butterfly but summon Gomorrah at the same time.
  • So you can switch weapons and invocations independently.
  • The bar on the bottom-left controls how long invocations last.
  • The bar depletes fast when invocations are present, but it also fills very fast, so it's easy to have enough energy to summon something at any moment.
  • You can cancel invocations at any time.
  • Bayonetta is vulnerable while performing invocations (this looks lame, but keep on reading...;)).
  • Each demon has it's own combo routes (PKP, PPKKK...).
  • This is the big one: The Punch and Kick button prompts that we've seen when an invocation was present are not "QTE"s but an input buffer.
So what does all of this mean? It means that you can summon Gomorrah, input a combo into the input buffer and then cancel the invocation. Gomorrah will perform the combo you told it on its' own, while you regain control of Bayonetta and do your thing. As you have cancelled the invocation, you can switch to a different demon later in the combo and summon it again, so Demon Slaves become a mechanic that you have to regularly integrate in your combos. The number of possibilities explodes, even more if you factor in weapon switching and transformations! It's like a step further in the direction of Astral Chain, where instead of summoning Legions so they can do their own pre-set thing, you can control them directly, give them orders and set them free to follow them (the Demon Slave name makes more sense than ever to me now). Cancelling is very fast, so you can summon, input the combo and regain control as fast as you can perform the inputs 🤩

It's not clear if you can summon two demons at the same time (probably not) but we'll see, that would be crazy.

9 days...!!

The whole collection of game play systems sounds intriguing and very promising, and I fully expect it will all come together and be executed wonderfully, such that it feels wonderful both to play and to see in action.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them do similar work with expanding the Legion systems in a new Astral Chain -- and I would be surprised to not see a followup to that title --, especially given the concept that the protagonist is on perfect sync with her Legion and posseses the ability to control its actions as easily as moving her own arm.

I've also thought for quite some time now that Nintendo could work with Platinum on the original concept of ScaleboundI, especially since the evolved project fell through for them, and then there's the question of whether that lends itself to this general style of system -- though I suspect it would involve less direct control of the creatures --, but then we run the risk of Platinum falling into just specifically this style, a possibility for which which I expect neither they nor we are too eager.

In any case, it'll be fascinating to see how this all plays out. It won't be long now before we will know.
 
Maybe it shares the bar with the Demon Slaves, like the Magic Bar in Bayo 2 was used for Umbran Climax, Torture Attacks and some special moves like the instant WW stomp, the crow teleport (was it called Umbran Spear?)...I'm pretty sure that you can keep the form as we've seen footage of Bayo just exploring the levels outside of combat... but maybe it won't use any gauge at all outside of combat as that would restrict your movement if you ran out of energy. We'll know for sure in just 8 days!
But then we would've seen the bar decrease with Maquerade which I at least haven't noticed. And keeping the form outside of combat is just it acting as a crow/panther within form, not a super form

But you're right, we'll know for sure soon enough!
 
But then we would've seen the bar decrease with Maquerade which I at least haven't noticed. And keeping the form outside of combat is just it acting as a crow/panther within form, not a super form

But you're right, we'll know for sure soon enough!
Oh you're right, I didn't notice that the bar wasn't decreasing. In fact I read in a review earlier today that Demon Masquerade is usable only as finishers like you said. The dancing move could be the back-forward+kick special attack and there are others that look like the typical Platinum 360+P attack (Gomorrah-Bayo and Madama-Bayo spinning around with blue flames/Wicked Weaves). We'll find out in a few days!
 
Sat down last night to play Bayo 2 for 30 minutes and didn’t want to stop. “Just one more turn verse” my brain kept saying.
 
Preload is up!

2022102100334700-57B4628D2267231D57E0FC1078C0596D.jpg
 
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