• Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
  • Do you have audio editing experience and want to help out with the Famiboards Discussion Club Podcast? If so, we're looking for help and would love to have you on the team! Just let us know in the Podcast Thread if you are interested!

Pre-Release Bayonetta 3 — Pre-release Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Alright, I think the full game is probably out there since we have this footage showing off what I presume to be all the weapons and Demon Slaves in the game. Also shows off the training area. Relatively spoiler free because of that, besides, you know, all the weapons and demons



Platinum really being like "hah you thought a train was wild, here have a Clock Tower"


Edit:

If anyone just wants numbers

10 of each, assuming those showcased in the video and the ones showcased officially are all there are
 
Last edited:
0
Chapter 5 now: can confirm

Anyways, is this game easier on Normal than Bayo 1 or did they just have a gentler ramp up? I’m definitely getting on much better with it than the first game.

Also the set pieces so far are a big step up
It’s easier. I ended up playing it on hard both times I played through it and it was still easier than Bayo 1, but mostly through QoL stuff
 
0
I played about 3 hours of Bayonetta 1 and stopped. Picked up Bayo 2 in hopes of beating it before 3 comes out. I'm enjoying 2 a lot more. It just has a better flow to everything. The color palette is a lot better. No stupid QTEs.
 
Hmm any story spoilers out there yet with copies floating around?

With how convoluted the plot of the first two games are I’ll take any help I can get trying to understand this games plot haha
 
Hmm any story spoilers out there yet with copies floating around?

With how convoluted the plot of the first two games are I’ll take any help I can get trying to understand this games plot haha

Only from near the start of the game from what i’ve seen (but I don’t want to see anything further, lol).

Viola is from a universe with a Bayonetta very similar to the one from the main timeline (but not actually her; like in the 2017 teaser her guns are called Whittingham Fair instead of Scarborough Fair, to make the distinction). In fact they recreate and expand that 2017 teaser as an in-game cutscene; ends the same way, with that Bayonetta being killed.

The main Bayo we’re following isn’t the main timeline Bayonetta either though like many speculated. Not 100% confirmed to be little Cereza from Bayonetta 1 but it seems likely.

IMG_0432.jpg
 
This is meant to be completely non judgmental, but I'm curious if someone can make an argument to me-- why do metascores matter to folks? I tend to see a discussion about that here and elsewhere in the lead up to a game's release. I get that aggregate scores are more of a gauge of a game's quality than an individual review, but it's still only a sampling of an ultimately limited amount of opinions, right?

For something like Bayo 3, I can see the last week changing its metascore in a way we'll never be able to really gauge. But, I don't think I have any reason to doubt it will be a great time, given how I loved 1 and 2. So to me, I'm not really interested in knowing what score it gets (I am interested how I'll personally view it compared to the first two though)

I think it's fun sometimes when a game I like has a nice score, but I've run into several cases where many reviews universally said something was awful only for me to find it something I'd rank 80+ by my personal standards. Think that's also why I don't place much value on what the consensus among reviewers is

Anyway, truly non judgmental. I'm just curious if anyone has an argument/pov for why they place value on the discussion of an upcoming game's metascore. There could be an element I'm not empathizing with and I'm happy to hear opinions on it

To be honest, for me, it’s just something to talk about pre-release that doesn’t involve any spoilers. Its just a prediction for the critical dissection of the game, so I find it rather harmless.

Also the Bayonetta series has only gotyen 90+ so there’s a pedigree here!
 
To be honest, for me, it’s just something to talk about pre-release that doesn’t involve any spoilers. Its just a prediction for the critical dissection of the game, so I find it rather harmless.

Also the Bayonetta series has only gotyen 90+ so there’s a pedigree here!
Indeed, ultimately, the metascore doesn't matter -- though you know it'll be brought forth in discussions around the 'net as an attempt to support some take or other -- but people like making predictions; there are factors people can base these predictions on, meaning they're less random, but there are also unpredictable elements that will unexpectedly alter the outcome.

Also, if people like something, they want the quality of that thing to be recognized.

Currently, the so-called 89 Curse also adds an additional level of intrigue.
 
i end up caring about the metascore for a couple reasons

1) For niche games like Bayonetta, 90+ is a big attention getter to pull more people in and makes you feel less “alone” in loving it
2) For bigger series like Zelda, it’s just hype to see the games maintain their quality standard

It’s just fun to track and predict at the end of the day though
 
Thanks for the takes on metascores! I think I have personal biases due to feeling that people overvalue and anchor their opinions on things like number scores. Since I'm coming from that perspective, I didn't immediately see the appeal in talking about what score a game will get. But I totally understand that sometimes it's just fun to speculate and it's just a thing to talk about. So, thanks!


It's hard to say where it will land. I don't even know if the whole controversy will affect how many outlets review it, or if they focus their reviews on the controversy. It's a tricky situation
 
Thanks for the takes on metascores! I think I have personal biases due to feeling that people overvalue and anchor their opinions on things like number scores. Since I'm coming from that perspective, I didn't immediately see the appeal in talking about what score a game will get. But I totally understand that sometimes it's just fun to speculate and it's just a thing to talk about. So, thanks!


It's hard to say where it will land. I don't even know if the whole controversy will affect how many outlets review it, or if they focus their reviews on the controversy. It's a tricky situation
If the controversy affects reviews I will throw something in the general direction of the game review industry because seriously why
 
0
Only from near the start of the game from what i’ve seen (but I don’t want to see anything further, lol).

Viola is from a universe with a Bayonetta very similar to the one from the main timeline (but not actually her; like in the 2017 teaser her guns are called Whittingham Fair instead of Scarborough Fair, to make the distinction). In fact they recreate and expand that 2017 teaser as an in-game cutscene; ends the same way, with that Bayonetta being killed.

The main Bayo we’re following isn’t the main timeline Bayonetta either though like many speculated. Not 100% confirmed to be little Cereza from Bayonetta 1 but it seems likely.

IMG_0432.jpg


It's definitely a thing where I wonder if "real life writes the plot" came into play here. Thanks to everything regarding the "fiasco" from last week, we know that Taylor was offered to come back in a minor/cameo role. And, now...it's practically confirmed that we are indeed playing as "Cerezita", thanks to a choice line that was said about how she and Jeanne survived the Witch Hunts together. We know that only occurs in the timeline where a Cereza wasn't sealed away, as we saw in Bayo1.

Thanks to that, P* may have decided to write the plot this way because now we can truly say that Hale's Bayonetta is truly a different person, while Taylor's is another entity that exists elsewhere. Kind of a smart way to play into the multiverse thing, and be "respectful", at the same time. What might have been, had Taylor not acted the way she did...

Ah, well!
 
Nowadays for you to get a 90 or more you need to be a huge game in several regards. You have to be a sacred cow, you need a huge amount of content (no short games) and you need to be visually appealing.

Bayo doesnt fits any of these categories (it is critically acclaimed but it doesnt enough of a following to get it to the cow status).

And i do think its VERY good looking, but the kind of people who will review this game will just compare it to devil may cry 5 visually.

It wont get a 90, i wish lol.
 
Only from near the start of the game from what i’ve seen (but I don’t want to see anything further, lol).

Viola is from a universe with a Bayonetta very similar to the one from the main timeline (but not actually her; like in the 2017 teaser her guns are called Whittingham Fair instead of Scarborough Fair, to make the distinction). In fact they recreate and expand that 2017 teaser as an in-game cutscene; ends the same way, with that Bayonetta being killed.

The main Bayo we’re following isn’t the main timeline Bayonetta either though like many speculated. Not 100% confirmed to be little Cereza from Bayonetta 1 but it seems likely.

IMG_0432.jpg
Cereza from Bayo 1 makes sense, imo, since she's referred to as "Arch-Eve Origin" in that one trailer. If the Bayo from the previous games is supposed to be "Arch-Eve" (likely, imo), then it would make sense for Cereza to be the "Origin" of that
 
I just want to see more combat from the early areas, and not the same one that keeps getting reuploaded on Youtube lol.
 
0
Nowadays for you to get a 90 or more you need to be a huge game in several regards. You have to be a sacred cow, you need a huge amount of content (no short games) and you need to be visually appealing.

Bayo doesnt fits any of these categories (it is critically acclaimed but it doesnt enough of a following to get it to the cow status).

And i do think its VERY good looking, but the kind of people who will review this game will just compare it to devil may cry 5 visually.

It wont get a 90, i wish lol.
The first two Bayonetta games received 90+ critic averages and one of them was a GOTY contender, so they've both been perennial favorites. I also don't think game length is that much of a factor outside of a relative sense. Plenty of short games get 90+ scores these days. The first two Bayonetta games were not only Devil May Cry-length on average, they were also extraordinarily content complete with tons of unlockables. I don't doubt that Bayonetta 3 will be the same in the latter regard at the very least.

I can see the game getting dinged on some things; visuals might be one (though it hasn't stopped multiple high profile Switch exclusives with bad IQ getting immense critical appraisal), people might have differing opinions on the quality of Viola/Bayonetta game play differences, and the Demon Slave feature is a pretty radical new mechanic so jury's out on whether it'll be a hit with people who might like something more no-frills like the first few Bayonettas were. But I think as long as the game hits all the right buttons as the previous games did, it'll go down another critical hit. For the most of the part, I think critics just want something that plays well and provides enough thrills to last the stretch, and that's something they've consistently hailed Bayonetta for.
 
The first two Bayonetta games received 90+ critic averages and one of them was a GOTY contender, so they've both been perennial favorites. I also don't think game length is that much of a factor outside of a relative sense. Plenty of short games get 90+ scores these days. The first two Bayonetta games were not only Devil May Cry-length on average, they were also extraordinarily content complete with tons of unlockables. I don't doubt that Bayonetta 3 will be the same in the latter regard at the very least.

I can see the game getting dinged on some things; visuals might be one (though it hasn't stopped multiple high profile Switch exclusives with bad IQ getting immense critical appraisal), people might have differing opinions on the quality of Viola/Bayonetta game play differences, and the Demon Slave feature is a pretty radical new mechanic so jury's out on whether it'll be a hit with people who might like something more no-frills like the first few Bayonettas were. But I think as long as the game hits all the right buttons as the previous games did, it'll go down another critical hit. For the most of the part, I think critics just want something that plays well and provides enough thrills to last the stretch, and that's something they've consistently hailed Bayonetta for.
2014 was 8 years ago, it may not seem like a lot but i feel like a lot has changed during that timeframe sadly.

And saying that just because the past games got a 90 does not mean that this will happen again. The best example still is Metroid. Many of the 2d past games got a +90, it is a sacred cow franchise and dread failed to keep its 90 (although it at least managed to taste it for a few minutes lol). Im sure if Dread was a few hours longer it would have gotten that 90.

So if Metroid didn't get it i cant really believe Bayo will.
 
Nowadays for you to get a 90 or more you need to be a huge game in several regards. You have to be a sacred cow, you need a huge amount of content (no short games) and you need to be visually appealing.

Bayo doesnt fits any of these categories (it is critically acclaimed but it doesnt enough of a following to get it to the cow status).

And i do think its VERY good looking, but the kind of people who will review this game will just compare it to devil may cry 5 visually.

It wont get a 90, i wish lol.
Bayo 1 and 2 doing so well critically increases the chance of 3 doing so as well, Bayonetta is like a mini "sacred cow" as you mentioned. That being said it'll probably lose points on visuals and hitting 90+ in general is much harder now.
 
0
It's definitely a thing where I wonder if "real life writes the plot" came into play here. Thanks to everything regarding the "fiasco" from last week, we know that Taylor was offered to come back in a minor/cameo role. And, now...it's practically confirmed that we are indeed playing as "Cerezita", thanks to a choice line that was said about how she and Jeanne survived the Witch Hunts together. We know that only occurs in the timeline where a Cereza wasn't sealed away, as we saw in Bayo1.

Thanks to that, P* may have decided to write the plot this way because now we can truly say that Hale's Bayonetta is truly a different person, while Taylor's is another entity that exists elsewhere. Kind of a smart way to play into the multiverse thing, and be "respectful", at the same time. What might have been, had Taylor not acted the way she did...

Ah, well!

Considering the original teaser I think it’s clear the multiverse plot was always in the cards for this one; long before any casting discussions were even had. Like Hale is now doing (and Tanaka was seemingly always planned to do) i’m certain they wanted Taylor to voice all of the different Bayonettas; and then just a cameo Bayonetta (the original or “Whittingham”) when she declined the starring role. I don’t think they changed the plot much, if at all, to account for the recast.
 
2014 was 8 years ago, it may not seem like a lot but i feel like a lot has changed during that timeframe sadly.

And saying that just because the past games got a 90 does not mean that this will happen again. The best example still is Metroid. Many of the 2d past games got a +90, it is a sacred cow franchise and dread failed to keep its 90 (although it at least managed to taste it for a few minutes lol). Im sure if Dread was a few hours longer it would have gotten that 90.

So if Metroid didn't get it i cant really believe Bayo will.
The Switch ports released in 2018 and still got the same acclaim.

I don't think Metroid works to make a point. Never mind the fact that critics don't control averages and that multiple Metroid games in recent history had not been close to breaking 90; Dread was a game released to a genre which many critics believed had already had the bar raised by indie darlings like Hollow Knight. Dread was fantastic and I believe it's top of its class, but it's no surprise that it wasn't exclusively received to unanimous 9s and 10s. Other Nintendo games like Xenoblade 3 got closer to crossing that barometer.
 
The Switch ports released in 2018 and still got the same acclaim.

I don't think Metroid works to make a point. Never mind the fact that critics don't control averages and that multiple Metroid games in recent history had not been close to breaking 90; Dread was a game released to a genre which many critics believed had already had the bar raised by indie darlings like Hollow Knight. Dread was fantastic and I believe it's top of its class, but it's no surprise that it wasn't exclusively received to unanimous 9s and 10s. Other Nintendo games like Xenoblade 3 got closer to crossing that barometer.
Like i said before, just because your last game got a higher review that doesnt means the next game will. I mean, it def helps to not make it go super low (other m would not get an 80 if it was from another ip). And dread WAS received by 9 and 10s, only 3 reviews were the ones that removed it from the 90. (I think its good to point out too that a game like SR scored 86 or 85 so there is a precedent in anyway)

It is also a bigger franchise than both bayonetta and xenoblade (and xenoblade was in a somewhat rough spot with xeno 2 being midly received from a decent amount of outlets and public) so yea its why i say this.

I do hope it completely shatters what im saying here and it gets a 90 because more than metroid or fe or xenoblade bayonetta needs a 90 the most.
 
Any sales predictions for this?
i truly, truly believe it stands a real chance of getting over 3 million copies lifetime.

The switch effect, helena's stuff getting word out about the game, i think it will all amount to get a complete new height for the franchise.

If not 3 then 2.5 which would be mindblowing for the franchise already, something like xenoblade X to 2.

Before someone comes, reminder that the Bayo 2 port already sold 1 million on the switch, i'll just say that.
 
Last edited:
Cereza from Bayo 1 makes sense, imo, since she's referred to as "Arch-Eve Origin" in that one trailer. If the Bayo from the previous games is supposed to be "Arch-Eve" (likely, imo), then it would make sense for Cereza to be the "Origin" of that
The "Origin" moniker would make sense, if they indeed are referring to her being the Cereza that "gave birth to a new history".

Of course, if she really is that one, then I can only wonder just how different her life ended up being in her dimension. Did Balder get spanked long before he could've caused any further damage, for example, whether he was possessed by Loptr or not? These are things I'm interested in learning!

Considering the original teaser I think it’s clear the multiverse plot was always in the cards for this one; long before any casting discussions were even had. Like Hale is now doing (and Tanaka was seemingly always planned to do) i’m certain they wanted Taylor to voice all of the different Bayonettas; and then just a cameo Bayonetta (the original or “Whittingham”) when she declined the starring role. I don’t think they changed the plot much, if at all, to account for the recast.
Oh, I don't doubt the multiverse angle was the main hook all along, either. But I do still think moving things on to "Brave Cereza"for our protagonist this time around is both an interesting and deliberate choice. And one that probably would've been largely unnecessary if it was just going to be Taylor, as per usual.

After all, at least for Bayonetta's sake, the games are designed predominantly with the Western script and cast in mind. If talks had broken down a very long time ago, that would've been plenty of time to make a few script alterations, and even maybe go with another design for the main character, herself, to account for this change in direction.

We are talking about the same Hideki Kamiya that had to oversee an overhaul of a game that was originally a Resident Evil title, before it then had its familiar Biohazard "super science" elements replaced with demons and magic, all because of various real life circumstances. To say I could see him and his team going to these lengths, even for the most minor of things relating to a change in the (Western) actor is something I could feasibly see, at least! LOL

Speaking of "Redgrave"...the more I learn about Viola, the more I'm convinced that they too, are the realization of an idea that Kamiya's probably had swimming in his head for the longest. A dorky descendant that later inherits the same demonic power as her predecessor...?

Ay.....ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy~? :D
 
Astral Chain did 1 million lifetime and Bayonetta 2 eventually managed to cross that threshold as well. I would assume Bayonetta 3 can at least get closer to 2 million than 1, based on the franchise having some brand power now. I can't say what effect the controversy will have had on it (Nintendo posting a single screenshot post-controversy seems to have made way more traction than any preceding screenshot tweet on the game) but I think reviews and Switch software hype will play a bigger factor.

That being said, in retrospect I'm willing to come with the hot take that I think Astral Chain played way better in marketing than Bayonetta ever did, so anything can happen. Maybe it'll just be on par with with the previous game; it's releasing in a busy software period so who knows how the legs will look.
 
It’ll pass the 1m milestone faster than Bayonetta 2 did (Astral Chain passed 1m as a new IP on Switch) but reaching 2m would still be really shocking (in a positive way).
 
Astral Chain did 1 million lifetime and Bayonetta 2 eventually managed to cross that threshold as well. I would assume Bayonetta 3 can at least get closer to 2 million than 1, based on the franchise having some brand power now. I can't say what effect the controversy will have had on it (Nintendo posting a single screenshot post-controversy seems to have made way more traction than any preceding screenshot tweet on the game) but I think reviews and Switch software hype will play a bigger factor.

That being said, in retrospect I'm willing to come with the hot take that I think Astral Chain played way better in marketing than Bayonetta ever did, so anything can happen. Maybe it'll just be on par with with the previous game; it's releasing in a busy software period so who knows how the legs will look.
I think you're probably right in that Astral Chain played better in marketing than Bayo, and it being a new IP instead of something with a 3 at the end probably gives it more mass market appeal (as much as any game in this genre can be said to have that). And like, as much as Bayo fans love this series, I don't think "demon summoning stripper lady", as intriguing as it sounds, actually plays that well in marketing, at least not compared to "Cyberpunk Police Stands"

But hey as regrettable as the controversy was it certainly got a lot more eyes on the franchise, so maybe it will hit a 2 million mark out of nowhere. I think around 1 million is the safer bet though
 
0
Only from near the start of the game from what i’ve seen (but I don’t want to see anything further, lol).

Viola is from a universe with a Bayonetta very similar to the one from the main timeline (but not actually her; like in the 2017 teaser her guns are called Whittingham Fair instead of Scarborough Fair, to make the distinction). In fact they recreate and expand that 2017 teaser as an in-game cutscene; ends the same way, with that Bayonetta being killed.

The main Bayo we’re following isn’t the main timeline Bayonetta either though like many speculated. Not 100% confirmed to be little Cereza from Bayonetta 1 but it seems likely.

IMG_0432.jpg
Thank you for taking the time to type that, I appreciate it!
 
0
Yeah, over 2 million LTD seems like the most safe bet. It's not selling less or just a bit better than Astral Chain.
 
2 million? Psh

Clearly y'all are underestimating known $450 million dollar franchise Bayonetta (/s)

Definitely the most absurd aspect from this whole fiasco. This game would have (and funnily still will) come and gone without an iota of attention from the press and public alike next to all the actual AAA games with an actual AAA marketing budget coming out from now until Black Friday. Even the just released, and by almost all metrics non-AAA, Persona 5 has a way bigger marketing budget for its ports to other systems than Bayonetta 3.

The franchise is an infant barely held above water by water wings provided by Nintendo. But in all of this the Bayonetta franchise is intentionally propped up as this huge and "iconic" franchise with AAA marketing-adjacent terminology like "multi-million dollar franchise" (kickstarted by Hellena's completely false $450 million number) just to create a comically deceiving David against Goliath story to really drive home the point for the mainstream masses.

The franchise didn't have enough to close enough social media engagement from people to create a boycott. And now that the drama is already over again and everything has gone back to normal it still doesn't. You can count the notable gaming-related social media figures that mention, nevermind really talk, about this game on one hand. There is barely anything or anyone there to stage a boycott.
 
Won't get 90+ but will deserve it. The whole industry right now is obsessed with games that act and look like movies. Your character does automatic movements as you walk or just push forward on the stick. Graphics and lighting are excellent, it's mature (Bayo has this), massive set pieces, it feels like an interactive movie. Last of Us a prime example. Switch games don't do this because they're more game-y and less movie, and people are thirsty for crazy graphics and an "epic" experience. It seems to me people today have a hard time getting through things that look average or have any performance issues.
 
Won't get 90+ but will deserve it. The whole industry right now is obsessed with games that act and look like movies. Your character does automatic movements as you walk or just push forward on the stick. Graphics and lighting are excellent, it's mature (Bayo has this), massive set pieces, it feels like an interactive movie. Last of Us a prime example. Switch games don't do this because they're more game-y and less movie, and people are thirsty for crazy graphics and an "epic" experience. It seems to me people today have a hard time getting through things that look average or have any performance issues.
? https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/year/all/filtered
 
0
Won't get 90+ but will deserve it. The whole industry right now is obsessed with games that act and look like movies. Your character does automatic movements as you walk or just push forward on the stick. Graphics and lighting are excellent, it's mature (Bayo has this), massive set pieces, it feels like an interactive movie. Last of Us a prime example. Switch games don't do this because they're more game-y and less movie, and people are thirsty for crazy graphics and an "epic" experience. It seems to me people today have a hard time getting through things that look average or have any performance issues.
I see this said a lot, but the market doesn't reflect it
 
I see this said a lot, but the market doesn't reflect it
Review scores reflect it. Production values are considered pretty much as heavily as gameplay at this point. Doesn't help that it is mostly a function of budget, meaning that certain games are effectively locked out of ever reaching high critical acclaim status.
 
Review scores reflect it. Production values are considered pretty much as heavily as gameplay at this point. Doesn't help that it is mostly a function of budget, meaning that certain games are effectively locked out of ever reaching high critical acclaim status.
even that doesn't reflect it either


there's a pretty healthy mix here
 
0
Status
Not open for further replies.


Back
Top Bottom