ARE YOU DAFT!?go play a video game
Just from observation, I think that making posts saying things like "stop saying ____" does come across like telling people what to do or not to do.well I didn't know I had misunderstood you then. I thought you were suggesting that the gameplay needed to become modern and was asserting my opinion that modern gameplay is not synonymous with good
I'm baffled by the suggestion that I'm "tone policing" you or in any way controlling what you say. @Mr Doggo does say what I thought you meant and I both have no intention of stopping telling him he's wrong and no expectation that he'll censor himself for my benefit. I'd be disappointed if he did!
speaking more broadly about the whole topic, I tend to be sanctimonious and stubborn about it because I know it's a losing fight. if star fox comes back it will be dramatically transformed, and there's a good chance I won't like it. in the meantime I will continue to erroneously defend the valor of rail shooters and arcade-style gameplay
Now you did it. Now I am really offended.go play a video game
Like I said no worries. To explain my point of view further: I am just not a fan of telling someone he shouldn't use a certain adjective thats relevant to an technical, ever evolving industry because you yourself define it as "= bad and worse then what came before". Thats all. I don't even have a grudge against you.well I didn't know I had misunderstood you then. I thought you were suggesting that the gameplay needed to become modern and was asserting my opinion that modern gameplay is not synonymous with good
I'm baffled by the suggestion that I'm "tone policing" you or in any way controlling what you say. @Mr Doggo does say what I thought you meant and I both have no intention of stopping telling him he's wrong and no expectation that he'll censor himself for my benefit. I'd be disappointed if he did!
speaking more broadly about the whole topic, I tend to be sanctimonious and stubborn about it because I know it's a losing fight. if star fox comes back it will be dramatically transformed, and there's a good chance I won't like it. in the meantime I will continue to erroneously defend the valor of rail shooters and arcade-style gameplay
And ironically it was originally considered to be a Star Fox game. Though he had some kind of weird reasoning as to why he chose not to do it, ultimately I think he saw the interest in the Pit redesign in Brawl and thought of how he could broaden that to an IP revival. I think the Star Fox DNA is all over that game, which is why so many jokingly refer to it as the best Star Fox game.For real. I think it’s time to stop using Kid Icarus for a point of rail shooting only Star Fox to return when KI isn’t only that.
Sakurai showed evolution with KI. You have people calling it a GOAT Nintendo game.
well I suppose my mistake is saying it with absolutely zero expectation that people listen to meJust from observation, I think that making posts saying things like "stop saying ____" does come across like telling people what to do or not to do.
god I can't readwhen I just said one paragraph later that they should focus on different Star Fox staples like planets, Arwing gameplay and so on.
And ironically it was originally considered to be a Star Fox game. Though he had some kind of weird reasoning as to why he chose not to do it, ultimately I think he saw the interest in the Pit redesign in Brawl and thought of how he could broaden that to an IP revival. I think the Star Fox DNA is all over that game, which is why so many jokingly refer to it as the best Star Fox game.
“Yes, there actually was one other and that was Star Fox,” Sakurai revealed.
“But the problem with Star Fox was that — and you’ll see this when you see the trailer for Kid Icarus — is that the game design incorporates a lot of different views. For example, flying and shooting sideways or turning around and shooting behind and I felt that there were some restrictions with Star Fox in this regard. With Pit, there is a certain amount of flexibility that is allowed and makes a better fit for this gameplay.”
Yeah the different views thing is... a weird reasoning. Panzer Dragoon lets you switch to side views. Kid Icarus having on foot stuff isn't novel, since Star Fox has on foot stuff too. Shooting from the sides of the Arwing could've been resolved by adding side blasters or tracker shots. I find it an unusually weird thing to get hung up about, when he could've used any reasoning to make it work. Honestly I think this is just like Miyamoto saying he has no ideas for F-Zero. They should just be honest and say that they're more inspired creatively to make other things.He thought the character of Pit and his world was better suited for the type of gaming he was making.
Sakurai Also Considered Making A Star Fox Game For 3DS
www.siliconera.com
That’s what I was wondering though. Maybe Sakurai felt like Star Fox needed to be a specific way in his eyes. But maybe it’s just more he wanted to work on Pit. At the end of the day I guess Kid Icarus was like a blank slate. And Sakurai had the idea and gameplay he wanted for a game. He didn’t see SF working. Probably Nintendo brought up SF to him first.Yeah the different views thing is... a weird reasoning. Panzer Dragoon lets you switch to side views. Kid Icarus having on foot stuff isn't novel, since Star Fox has on foot stuff too. Shooting from the sides of the Arwing could've been resolved by adding side blasters or tracker shots. I find it an unusually weird thing to get hung up about, when he could've used any reasoning to make it work. Honestly I think this is just like Miyamoto saying he has no ideas for F-Zero. They should just be honest and say that they're more inspired creatively to make other things.
I do try to censor myself in relation to other people's tastes. Since people dont know me, they could think i am being serious and in a hypothetical case... trashing pikmin for real for example.I'm baffled by the suggestion that I'm "tone policing" you or in any way controlling what you say. @Mr Doggo does say what I thought you meant and I both have no intention of stopping telling him he's wrong and no expectation that he'll censor himself for my benefit. I'd be disappointed if he did!
I do try to censor myself in relation to other people's tastes. Since people dont know me, they could think i am being seriously and in a hypothetical case... trashing pikmin for example.
.
Huh? No, I didn’t miss it, it was in the post I quoted. I just cut it out because I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion. Nobody is saying they shouldn't take other games for inspiration and make new IPs like they did with Star Fox and Splatoon when they were created. (Some) people itt are opposed to the idea of taking a now established series (Star Fox) and turning it into something else.You must've missed the part where I said that Star Fox was heavily inspired by games like Starblade (seriously, the playthrough I linked could be mistaken for actual Star Fox levels). Nintendo put their own unique spin on it and that set it apart from other rail shooters of the time. Similarly, Splatoon was their own unique spin on the third person competitive multiplayer genre. Since nothing has reversed the trend of making rail shooters' decline in popularity, perhaps Nintendo could try putting a spin on more popular, recent trends. What form that takes, who knows.
It's hard to say. He did a really clever job of making Star Fox and F-Zero characters work in Smash, outside of their vehicles. He added rocket booster heels to Samus (I still dislike that personally). He's really creative and does things that may not seem likely at first, but totally work in practice. I think given the opportunity between doing a new Star Fox or having carte blanc with Kid Icarus, he chose the latter.That’s what I was wondering though. Maybe Sakurai felt like Star Fox needed to be a specific way in his eyes. But maybe it’s just more he wanted to work on Pit. At the end of the day I guess Kid Icarus was like a blank slate. And Sakurai had the idea and gameplay he wanted for a game. He didn’t see SF working. Probably Nintendo brought up SF to him first.
That doesn't add up considering this decision was made back in 2009, when Uprising started development. Star Fox 64 3D didn't come out until late 2011, only a few months before Uprising did, actually.Also, iirc, there was also the 64 3D game that made him feel that 3DS didn't need two games. Maybe the tepid sales of it also made Nintendo decide to suggest him to try his luck with Kid Icarus instead.
I'm sure he knew what was in development, or Nintendo management knew and suggested he do Kid Icarus instead since they had Q-Games already making a SF title. He gets the inside deets on a lot of stuff if the Smash games are anything to go by.That doesn't add up considering this decision was made back in 2009, when Uprising started development. Star Fox 64 3D didn't come out until late 2011, only a few months before Uprising did, actually.
this is what I've always wanted tbhThey should do my Star Fox idea from like 10-12 years ago
James McCloud prequel with Pigma and Peppy
I'm just saying the middling sales of SF64 3D couldn't of possibly factored into Sakurai going with Kid Icarus instead considering neither games were even out in 2009.I'm sure he knew what was in development, or Nintendo management knew and suggested he do Kid Icarus instead since they had Q-Games already making a SF title. He gets the inside deets on a lot of stuff if the Smash games are anything to go by.
It’s incredible how all of these got revived in their original genres, with gameplay that continues and expands on their predecessors (crossing out Pikmin 4 because we don’t know anything about it). I remember people on Era complaining about New Pokémon Snap sticking to an on-rails approach even; that if it went for open exploration gameplay it would simply be better, more accessible and more of a must-have sales hit. I view this Star Fox discussion in the same way I view that.Nintendo is resurrecting a lot of fan favorites on Switch. Who would've thought we'd get Pokemon Snap 2, Mario Strikers 3, Metroid 5,Pikmin 4, an Advance Wars remake (eventually)
Oh I getcha. I was mostly thinking that he already knew SF643D was a thing, so the 3DS didn't need two Star Fox games released so close together.I'm just saying the middling sales of SF64 3D couldn't of possibly factored into Sakurai going with Kid Icarus instead considering neither games were even out in 2009.
I think a lot of people care about the characters that’s why. There’s people who see a greater potential in them. There’s people who just want Nintendo to make a great SF game. Nobody wants the series to die. There’s more passion because of it.It's blessing to see the whole thread talking about Star Fox.
unironically that would be the best received sf game everBut what about Star Fox Grand Prix ?
I think the price focus is because Nintendo has released all Star Fox titles at retail (technically even SF2 was a big selling point for the SNES Classic) so they likely wouldn't do an eshop-only release. Perhaps a slightly lower-priced game like Captain Toad or Warioware might work.It’s incredible how all of these got revived in their original genres, with gameplay that continues and expands on their predecessors (crossing out Pikmin 4 because we don’t know anything about it). I remember people on Era complaining about New Pokémon Snap sticking to an on-rails approach even; that if it went for open exploration gameplay it would simply be better, more accessible and more of a must-have sales hit. I view this Star Fox discussion in the same way I view that.
To the main body of the post: an infatuation with sales feels like weak justification in a world where Famicom Detective Club and Advance Wars got revivals (even if as remakes). Even Star Fox 64 3D crawled to 1m and in the process outsold any previous games in those two series; not very tepid in that context. I don’t particularly care if you see rail shooters as an icky outdated genre that can’t hold up with modern audiences; nobody is asking for for a game 100% identical to Star Fox 64 in the first place. Zero being a retelling of 64 was one of the major points that got it so derided (besides the controls); as someone who kinda got into the unruly control scheme by the end the unoriginality in settings is what killed any interest in replaying it. Command is a mess but I like Star Fox 2; the management mechanics are an interesting spin on the formula; almost a shame 64 abandoned it and the Walker while reusing a ton of other concepts from it. Assault has elements that could be worth revisiting too; I don’t think on-foot segments are a particular bad fit for Star Fox, that sort of gameplay was already there in rudimentary form in Star Fox 64’s battle mode. They should absolutely expand on the multiplayer with online play next time too.
Point is there are ways to evolve Star Fox that don’t involve reinventing the wheel; hence people bringing up other rail shooter examples that do push the genre beyond what Star Fox 64 was capable of doing. I don’t believe the genre is a weight on the series in any regard. The problem is that they haven’t made a good new installment in the series in a long time (and the closest they’ve gotten, Assault and Zero, were on underperforming platforms); so with the Switch as popular as it is now is the time.
I think a lot of people care about the characters that’s why. There’s people who see a greater potential in them. There’s people who just want Nintendo to make a great SF game. Nobody wants the series to die. There’s more passion because of it.
This pretty much sums it up. Great characters and setting, stellar music, some early hits and okay-ish to bad sequels. Lots of potential but flawed execution, and both fans and the developers seem unsure where to go with it but don't want to see it laid to rest when it still has worth.TBH with Star Fox it definitely feels like many people really like what they see in it, more so than what the series actually is.
A lot of people just like the potential of this sorta big epic space opera/military drama starring furries. As flawed as the mid-2000s Star Fox games (Adventures, Assault, and Command) were, they did kinda offer a glimpse into a bigger world in terms of stories, characters, and gameplay ideas, which is probably why you have more people going up to bat for them these days, especially Assault.
This pretty much sums it up. Great characters and setting, stellar music, some early hits and okay-ish to bad sequels. Lots of potential but flawed execution, and both fans and the developers seem unsure where to go with it but don't want to see it laid to rest when it still has worth.
So it's the Sonic of Nintendo, confirmed lol
I think a Star Fox series is inevitable for Nintendo’s current expansion into film and television. For fans really into the characters and world that’s an avenue for them to expand on those aspects while the next game can focus in on actually being good this time. Maybe a multimedia push would help Star Fox out; time will tell.Honestly Star Fox wishes it could be in the position Sonic is these days. Yeah the games have been super hit or miss besides the occasional Mania but at least it has a huge multimedia presence with generally well regarded cartoons, comics and even movies now to help keep the series and its characters alive and well in the public conscious. It's pretty telling that Sonic Team went ahead and got Ian Flynn to help write for Sonic Frontiers considering how beloved his depictions of the Sonic characters are.
Nintendo never really tried very much with Star Fox in that regard. We had those old Nintendo Power comics back in the day, they did the (Japan only) Farewell Beloved Falco manga set between 64 and Adventures, and they also did The Battle Begins to promote Zero, and all of these were pretty neat but otherwise there's never been much of a big push for it.
Like, freaking F-Zero got a full fledged, 50+ anime before Star Fox did, even though SF1 and SF64 outsold all F-Zero games. Even Adventures sold more, besides the SNES F-Zero.
as slow as NIntendo has been with the multimedia stuff, I'm worried all we'll get is some shitty 3 min mario shorts that have a very sporadic release schedule
As much as people laugh about Sonic fans, they have honestly kept that series alive. They read the comics, they watch the shows, they buy the games and make a lot of weird art on Deviantart. Sega did the smart move and hired the really talented fans to work on their comics, animations, movies and even the games themselves. No surprise that those takes on Sonic are really well-received, while Sonic Team keeps running into walls repeatedly.Honestly Star Fox wishes it could be in the position Sonic is these days. Yeah the games have been super hit or miss besides the occasional Mania but at least it has a huge multimedia presence with generally well regarded cartoons, comics and even movies now to help keep the series and its characters alive and well in the public conscious. It's pretty telling that Sonic Team went ahead and got Ian Flynn to help write for Sonic Frontiers considering how beloved his depictions of the Sonic characters are.
Nintendo never really tried very much with Star Fox in that regard. We had those old Nintendo Power comics back in the day, they did the (Japan only) Farewell Beloved Falco manga set between 64 and Adventures, and they also did The Battle Begins to promote Zero, and all of these were pretty neat but otherwise there's never been much of a big push for it.
Like, freaking F-Zero got a full fledged, 50+ anime before Star Fox did, even though SF1 and SF64 outsold all F-Zero games. Even Adventures sold more, besides the SNES F-Zero.
This almost feels like a summation of the "do something new, and it may sell better even if fans are wary" take for Star Fox hahalet's not pretend getting Illumination and Chris Pratt are bad moves. I get not liking their stuff, but if you want a good chance at success, that's the move you make
Yeah. I get wanting others. I did too. But Pratt isn’t a bad voice actor. He’s actually pretty good. I just don’t want and like him at all cause of the things he’s said and won’t say.let's not pretend getting Illumination and Chris Pratt are bad moves. I get not liking their stuff, but if you want a good chance at success, that's the move you make
I mean, yeah, if all you care about is marketability, but from an artistic, and in the case of Pratt, moral standpoint, it fucking sucks. This might be technically better than the 90s movie, but I guarantee it'll be less interesting.let's not pretend getting Illumination and Chris Pratt are bad moves. I get not liking their stuff, but if you want a good chance at success, that's the move you make