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StarTopic Nintendo General Discussion |ST6 Mar. 2022| Marchful Mode

What is the best (non-Kirby) Kirby franchise main character?

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Lord Azrael said:
Fuuuuuuck the top of my feet got so sunburned that they're swollen and blistering, help me
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Avoid further exposure to sunlight, then you can put a cold and damp cloth or sponge on your blisters. Don’t pop your blisters; if they break on their own you can just wash them with soap and water. You can also apply moisturizers. If the pain persists go ahead and take a painkiller. And make sure to stay hydrated!
 
Did Nintendo ever come out and say MK8DX wouldn't get DLC/more content way before announcing way more DLC for it?

Asking because I'm still holding out for more ACNH content (at least give me Puzzle League).
 
famicorpse said:
Did Nintendo ever come out and say MK8DX wouldn't get DLC/more content way before announcing way more DLC for it?

Asking because I'm still holding out for more ACNH content (at least give me Puzzle League).
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Actually they said we can expect more content after they released the free BotW Link and cart parts 🤔
 
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I just realized Nintendo hasn't announced the NSO N64 game after Fzero. I think that probably means we're still getting Kirby this month in time for the anniversary.
 
I'm interested in seeing what games they will add after the initial batch is complete rolled out. Of course, the vast majority of 1st Party games will come over, but I'm thinking on more quirk 3rd Party stuff like Winback.
 
CyberWolfJV said:
I'm interested in seeing what games they will add after the initial batch is complete rolled out. Of course, the vast majority of 1st Party games will come over, but I'm thinking on more quirk 3rd Party stuff like Winback.
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The initial datamine suggests 38 N64 titles and 52 Genesis/Megadrive. Going 1 title per month for N64 means iirc support until very early 2024. Being a little pessimistic, as this sum of N64 and Gensis games is exactly 100, at least for me means that they aren’t so far planning to add more. Afterwards, they can likely continue with GBA or other platforms (assuming they will add GB/C to regular NSO service this year or sometime on 2023).
 
Catalyst said:
40/50 for me. The late 90s series are easily the hardest, especially since Pokémon came out in Japan before America so stuff like Crash and Tomb Raider feel like they predate Pokémon even though they don’t.
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43/50 for me as well. Flubbed some of the answers for the exact same reason (also parsing Red Faction as Red Alert 🤦‍♂️). The 2.5 year gap between the JP and NA release makes it a really hard quiz.

LoneRanger said:
Afterwards, they can likely continue with GBA or other platforms (assuming they will add GB/C to regular NSO service this year or sometime on 2023).
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I really really hope we get GBA sooner than that. The prospect of being able to play something like WarioWare Twisted without needing to drop $100 on eBay for a cartridge that may or may not have functioning rumble and gyro is easily worth the upsell.

Also Nintendo really needs to get on with making an official FlipGrip or licensing it. With the 3DS eShop closing up it'd be nice to have some official emulation of the (3)DS hardware and I think if the Switch is powerful enough they could probably pull it off as a handheld only app in a tate mode configuration.
 
CyberWolfJV said:
I'm interested in seeing what games they will add after the initial batch is complete rolled out. Of course, the vast majority of 1st Party games will come over, but I'm thinking on more quirk 3rd Party stuff like Winback.
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We're not getting any of the Midway/Acclaim/Infogrames stuff, Konami should be our best bet. I can see them adding Castlevania 64 and Goemon (both) within this year.
 
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LoneRanger said:
The initial datamine suggests 38 N64 titles and 52 Genesis/Megadrive. Going 1 title per month for N64 means iirc support until very early 2024. Being a little pessimistic, as this sum of N64 and Gensis games is exactly 100, at least for me means that they aren’t so far planning to add more. Afterwards, they can likely continue with GBA or other platforms (assuming they will add GB/C to regular NSO service this year or sometime on 2023).
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38+52=90
 
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I'm having my yearly salary negotiations with my new boss tomorrow - It's make it or break it for my employer if I'm going to stay at the company or not. I know my worth and I know I am very much underpaid - so here goes! Wish me luck!
 
Leo said:
I just realized Nintendo hasn't announced the NSO N64 game after Fzero. I think that probably means we're still getting Kirby this month in time for the anniversary.
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I'd be surprised if we do. March already has F Zero X, Mario Kart Wave 1, and it looks like another batch of Mega Drive games, too. That's pretty generous, as far as Nintendo and subscriptions go.
 
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manfromthedam said:
Yes please! I'm playing through Twilight Princess for the first at the moment (kinda blown away by how good it is...) and every dungeon has a unique boss and midboss. The enemy and environment variety in that game is bonkers and it does so much to keep it engaging.

Also seeing Elden Ring footage that game has gazillions of enemy types and biomes. BotW is a game with an aggressively narrow scope in some ways, which makes sense considering the enormous undertaking it already was, but you can feel it in it's lack of enemy types and almost complete lack of unique and substantial indoor environments.
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Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda and I’m glad to see you’re enjoying it! It's kinda the prime example of variety in a Zelda game. If BOTW2 had that level of variety it'd be the greatest Zelda of all time. I don't know what could come close.
 
Christo750 said:
Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda and I’m glad to see you’re enjoying it! It's kinda the prime example of variety in a Zelda game. If BOTW2 had that level of variety it'd be the greatest Zelda of all time. I don't know what could come close.
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Excellent game! It is not my favorite Zelda, not even top 3, BUT it has the best dungeons in the series and the best partner.
 
Party Sklar said:
Don't know about that. It can sell maybe 3-4 million more, but I don't see it go much further than that. It already left the French top and I see many, many people try to sell copies of the game on Facebook Marketplace. It'd have much better legs if it had an easy mode, but I know FromSo fans don't wanna hear that
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Elden Ring does have an easy mode

you can sneak around and run away and passively harvest a ton of materials and runes from the world

you can even get to the capital without fighting a single boss and discover the majority of the map along the way, though the door in requires two defeated bosses

there are many many fighting styles — all of which can be beefed up even on basic weapons using only resources found

but something that’s easy to miss that will help IMMENSELY is the Ashes of War!

you basically get to add wild abilities to any basic weapon, and they’re really truly amazing

plus you can summon two co-op helpers AND helpful enemy spirits with the Spirit Ashes

there’s definitely a little bit of a learning curve, but if the world captivates you, there are so many different ways to alleviate the challenges presented

I like souls games, don’t get me wrong, but this is by far the most flexibility and help I feel like I’ve had in those, and that’s very much by design

it really wants to be explored and that exploration rewards you

if you want a leg up with starting power I highly recommend Hoarfrost Stomp and the Lone Wolf Ashes — using both effectively is certainly an “easier” mode

but also, summon helpers! overcome together!

okay that’s my mini-rant cheers
 
So picking up a new game today as I just finished Chicory last night. Great game BTW, but the controls can be awkward as hell.

So time for a new game! Help me decide.

Disco Elysium or Triangle Strategy!?
 
Elden Ring has brought up the discussion about narrative in open world games vs. linear games again but it's got me thinking about how narrow of a definition of narrative we have with regards to videogames. Like people think of games as two separate parts. The "narrative" is stuff like cutscenes. While the gameplay segments like combat and exploration are considered separate things. Cutscenes plus the the player's own actions and choices are rarely taken together to be considered one full narrative. But I think for videogames, the gameplay portions are just as vital if not more so than the traditional story telling portions.

People harp on Breath of the Wild's story and I often think it's because they are just remember the cutscenes and don't include their own journey that world as part of the story. But going back to pre-release interviews, it's pretty clear that the player's journey and the path they choose is the main trust of the narrative. Stopping Ganon is the main setup but the bulk of the story is the mountain you climb, the villages you come across, the shrines you discover, etc. On the one hand, I get it. If you play a game for 100 hours and only 2 hours of those is actual cutscenes, the cutscenes are probably going to stick out more and it may be difficult to recall specific gameplay moments. But I do think the player's journey should be a factor when we discuss narrative. We kind of already do this in games like Breath of the Wild, Elden Ring, and Skyrim because we are eager to talk about where we explored, who we fought, and even funny unintended moments. We just don't consider those moments as part of the story.

Naughty Dog games are highly regarded for their narratives but a lot of that is because ND uses more traditional story telling in their games. They take control away from the player and have you sit through cutscenes. That's fine but I don't think it plays to the strength of the medium. That's why I don't hold the stories of ND games in super high regard. Their stories are lesser versions of something you can find in movies or TV. I find game stories are most valuable when it tell stories in a way that movies or book can't and that's often by letting you actually be in and interact with the game's world.

One of the reasons why I like animation or even CG movies is just because the medium always creator to make settings and stories that can't be done easily with live action. Avatar The Last Airbender takes you throughout the mystical and strange world. Building that world can more easily be done in animation. The series would never been made it if had to be live action where things are more expensive and you have to do deal with things like real world physics. So in a similar sense, I like games that let's journey to settings that probably can't be or won't be done in movies or TV with the exception of a few properties like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and Comic book stuff.
 
This whole Elden Ring discussion is getting exhausted. I have nothing against open world games - hell, I loved BoTW - but things being open world does not mean its better. And I am afraid that From wil not go back to the more classic structure - which was still open - but of course more linear. There is no right way or wrong way to structure your game as long as it is fun to play and works for what you are trying to do. Linear, sandbox, open world, metroidvania, whatever.

HockeyBird said:
People harp on Breath of the Wild's story and I often think it's because they are just remember the cutscenes and don't include their own journey that world as part of the story. But going back to pre-release interviews, it's pretty clear that the player's journey and the path they choose is the main trust of the narrative. Stopping Ganon is the main setup but the bulk of the story is the mountain you climb, the villages you come across, the shrines you discover, etc. On the one hand, I get it. If you play a game for 100 hours and only 2 hours of those is actual cutscenes, the cutscenes are probably going to stick out more and it may be difficult to recall specific gameplay moments. But I do think the player's journey should be a factor when we discuss narrative. We kind of already do this in games like Breath of the Wild, Elden Ring, and Skyrim because we are eager to talk about where we explored, who we fought, and even funny unintended moments. We just don't consider those moments as part of the story.
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I personally really liked the story in BoTW, but I have found many people don't like passive and environmental storytelling. BoTW picked up after the major events had happened, so everything is in the background, memories, or the story cut-scenes that help you on your way to gather your strength , plus the various diaries and descriptions you find on the way. I thought it was very effective and created the right melancholic mood on a world that is trying to rebuild and keeping its hope up instead of just being miserable.
 
Clix said:
This whole Elden Ring discussion is getting exhausted. I have nothing against open world games - hell, I loved BoTW - but things being open world does not mean its better. And I am afraid that From wil not go back to the more classic structure - which was still open - but of course more linear. There is no right way or wrong way to structure your game as long as it is fun to play and works for what you are trying to do. Linear, sandbox, open world, metroidvania, whatever.



I personally really liked the story in BoTW, but I have found many people don't like passive and environmental storytelling. BoTW picked up after the major events had happened, so everything is in the background, memories, or the story cut-scenes that help you on your way to gather your strength , plus the various diaries and descriptions you find on the way. I thought it was very effective and created the right melancholic mood on a world that is trying to rebuild and keeping its hope up instead of just being miserable.
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Personally I loved the story in BOTW - the memories, piecing it all together and figuring out what happened, the flashback cutscenes, etc. And I love the lore in Souls games, too, but I think the reason all this works for me is what you said - it's stuff that's already happened. I don't really like a more passive approach to things that are still currently happening.

I'm someone who doesn't like environmental storytelling much. I generally want games to have directed, purposeful cutscenes; it just works better for me. One issue I have with games like Skyrim, for example, is that cutscenes don't really exist - things just kind of happen when you're around other people, but you still have free control to move around and such even while people are talking and divulging critical plot information and the like. I know some people like that, but it drives me up the wall. I want to have actual cutscenes with cinematic camera angles, purposeful matching music, etc.
 
SammyJ9 said:
Personally I loved the story in BOTW - the memories, piecing it all together and figuring out what happened, the flashback cutscenes, etc. And I love the lore in Souls games, too, but I think the reason all this works for me is what you said - it's stuff that's already happened. I don't really like a more passive approach to things that are still currently happening.

I'm someone who doesn't like environmental storytelling much. I generally want games to have directed, purposeful cutscenes; it just works better for me. One issue I have with games like Skyrim, for example, is that cutscenes don't really exist - things just kind of happen when you're around other people, but you still have free control to move around and such even while people are talking and divulging critical plot information and the like. I know some people like that, but it drives me up the wall. I want to have actual cutscenes with cinematic camera angles, purposeful matching music, etc.
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Oh I have nothing against cutscenes, and I enjoy them. Memory hunting in BoTW was rewarding for me.

But some games go overkill. GoW 2018 just tested my patience with them, especially with how slow the game was. I much preferred the talking head talking to me while I was wandering around.
 
I like the way BotW and Souls do their stories, but on the linear side of things I also like the way the Half Life series does it, where characters are having conversations and you can move and look around and the game doesn't just force you to slow walk, or your character is just rooted to the spot, or just takes control away from you altogether. In Half Life games you are truly a participant in the "cutscenes" and I find it that deeply immersive.
 
Clix said:
Oh I have nothing against cutscenes, and I enjoy them. Memory hunting in BoTW was rewarding for me.

But some games go overkill. GoW 2018 just tested my patience with them, especially with how slow the game was. I much preferred the talking head talking to me while I was wandering around.
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That's totally fair; I didn't get far enough in GoW 2018 to remember much of how it does cutscenes or how prevalent they were.

Probably the reason I'm so into cutscenes is growing up on, and my love for, JRPGs. Especially in the PS1 generation and onward when we started to get CGI cutscenes I just clicked with that style, where it almost felt like a 'reward' for a cool moment in the game, so to speak. You see something similar in games like Tales, Persona, Fire Emblem, etc., with anime cutscenes: That 'set-down-the-controller, grab popcorn, sit back and enjoy' feeling of "Ooh, this scene is important enough that it's anime! Here we go!" if that makes any sense
 
SammyJ9 said:
That's totally fair; I didn't get far enough in GoW 2018 to remember much of how it does cutscenes or how prevalent they were.

Probably the reason I'm so into cutscenes is growing up on, and my love for, JRPGs. Especially in the PS1 generation and onward when we started to get CGI cutscenes I just clicked with that style, where it almost felt like a 'reward' for a cool moment in the game, so to speak. You see something similar in games like Tales, Persona, Fire Emblem, etc., with anime cutscenes: That 'set-down-the-controller, grab popcorn, sit back and enjoy' feeling of "Ooh, this scene is important enough that it's anime! Here we go!" if that makes any sense
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Same here! But I will add this. There is a stark difference - at least to me - how Japanese games, especially jrpgs, handle cut scenes versus western games which can be badly paced, be drawn out, and too numerous. Some exceptions of course - like Xenosaga - but at least with that everything was so batshit that it kept me interested.
 
Clix said:
Same here! But I will add this. There is a stark difference - at least to me - how Japanese games, especially jrpgs, handle cut scenes versus western games which can be badly paced, be drawn out, and too numerous. Some exceptions of course - like Xenosaga - but at least with that everything was so batshit that it kept me interested.
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Yeah I get you! I think one of the first times I noticed cutscenes being a bit too long or numerous was in FF13 - and I even like that game! But there's a part early on where you get a massive story cutscene, followed by another, and then the game gives you a prompt to save the game if you want... which is immediately followed by another long cutscene, lol. Even I at that point was like "Okay, come on now"
 


Evening Star (folks behind Sonic Mania) got a publisher! They announced a while back they are working in a 3D platformer;
yoyoprotag.png
 
Has anyone here played the overlooked and underrated indie game Elden Ring? I doubt it. It's such an overlooked and underrated indie darling that most people probably haven't even heard of it.
 
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About the reductive views on game narratives, I think there's two causes to this issue:

1) Most people aren't taught to really dig narrative meaning out of visual and aural choices, let alone mechanic and system design. The majority of education systems at least try to teach how to analyze a text, but anything related to the visual arts and music is relegated (at least in 'Western' cultures, not so much so in other parts of the world) to specialized education. Add to that how film and tv are the current vehicular mediums for mass-culture, and it's not a surprise that people end up thinking narrative = what's outright narrated + cutscenes.

2) Hideo Kojima

chocolate_supra said:
This comment doesn't have near enough Yeah!s
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<3. I was surprised no-one had made the joke already.
 
Suswave said:
Elden Ring does have an easy mode

you can sneak around and run away and passively harvest a ton of materials and runes from the world

you can even get to the capital without fighting a single boss and discover the majority of the map along the way, though the door in requires two defeated bosses

there are many many fighting styles — all of which can be beefed up even on basic weapons using only resources found

but something that’s easy to miss that will help IMMENSELY is the Ashes of War!

you basically get to add wild abilities to any basic weapon, and they’re really truly amazing

plus you can summon two co-op helpers AND helpful enemy spirits with the Spirit Ashes

there’s definitely a little bit of a learning curve, but if the world captivates you, there are so many different ways to alleviate the challenges presented

I like souls games, don’t get me wrong, but this is by far the most flexibility and help I feel like I’ve had in those, and that’s very much by design

it really wants to be explored and that exploration rewards you

if you want a leg up with starting power I highly recommend Hoarfrost Stomp and the Lone Wolf Ashes — using both effectively is certainly an “easier” mode

but also, summon helpers! overcome together!

okay that’s my mini-rant cheers
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Oh, I agree with you that there's many ways to make the game easier, but it's still not an easy mode. Most people, the ones who buy two or three games a year and bought Elden Ring from all the hype, they don't know that. When you have to watch YouTube videos or read articles to know how to make the game easier, when even the "easy mode" is by design hard or obtuse to activate, most people won't stick around. Especially not disabled people who'd like to play the game and can't toggle some accessibility options to make it more suitable to them (there was a mod for Sekiro that slowed down the enemies, it would be nice to have something of this nature implemented in the next Souls game just so everyone who wants to play it can do so).
 
mazi said:
tunic getting amazing reviews!

opencritic.com

Tunic Reviews

Tunic is rated 'Mighty' after being reviewed by 114 critics, with an overall average score of 86. It's ranked in the top 5% of games and recommended by 93% of critics.
opencritic.com opencritic.com
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Already sent the download request to my Xbox.

I probably won't get to it for a few weeks, but I'm excited none the less.
 
MarcelRguez said:
About the reductive views on game narratives, I think there's two causes to this issue:

1) Most people aren't taught to really dig narrative meaning out of visual and aural choices, let alone mechanic and system design. The majority of education systems at least try to teach how to analyze a text, but anything related to the visual arts and music is relegated (at least in 'Western' cultures, not so much so in other parts of the world) to specialized education. Add to that how film and tv are the current vehicular mediums for mass-culture, and it's not a surprise that people end up thinking narrative = what's outright narrated + cutscenes.

2) Hideo Kojima


<3. I was surprised no-one had made the joke already.
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Was going to say, but did not want to com off as offensive. I have noticed it is a very North American mindset when it comes to narrative storytelling, especially in games.
 
MarcelRguez said:
About the reductive views on game narratives, I think there's two causes to this issue:

1) Most people aren't taught to really dig narrative meaning out of visual and aural choices, let alone mechanic and system design. The majority of education systems at least try to teach how to analyze a text, but anything related to the visual arts and music is relegated (at least in 'Western' cultures, not so much so in other parts of the world) to specialized education. Add to that how film and tv are the current vehicular mediums for mass-culture, and it's not a surprise that people end up thinking narrative = what's outright narrated + cutscenes.
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I think Sonic 3&K is a good example of "narrative without explicit narration/cutscenes."
Through simple sprite animations that occur in the levels, we get the story that Knuckles is guarding the emeralds from Sonic, (Angel Island Zone) Knuckles is helping Robotnik, eventually Sonic gets to the temple where the Master Emerald is (Hidden Palace Zone) and there Robotnik takes the Master Emerald while you (as Sonic) are fighting Knuckles. We see Knuckles get pissed at Robotnik, stop and think, realize he was duped, then he waves you on and he starts helping you get to the next level. Then all that's left is the final two zones where you're chasing Robotnik, who now relaunches the Death Egg with the power of the stolen Master Emerald. Sonic gets it back after the (fuckin rad) final chase (Doomsday Zone), and he and Tails take it back to the island, which then rises again. Before the credits there's one final bit where Knuckles, standing next to the Master Emerald on an island cliff, watches and smiles and Sonic and Tails fly away.
That's a wholeass story that Sonic Team managed to tell through sprites, gameplay, and level progression with zero dialogue. It's an example of what @shoptroll and I were talking about in the RPG ST a couple days ago, where games are a very unique medium and they have their own narrative possibilities without having to rely so damn heavily on trying to emulate movies/tv.
 
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