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StarTopic Nintendo First Party Software Development |ST| Nintendo Party Superstars

Reader mode
MondoMega said:
Well, I think we can probably say that Nintendo are done with Vitei at least; they turned down pitches for both a Tank Troopers port and an F-Zero game early into the Switch's life.
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That F-Zero pitch is an interesting case. The concept of hyper-realistic F-Zero racing, predicated on hyper-realistic physics which govern the gameplay is a fascinating idea and so alien to the series. The vast departure from previous iterations could either be a reason to turn it down or the fresh take that kickstarts development.

Clearly the game wasn't greenlit, so I must conclude that the idea was too far out there ...

Or that Nintendo already has Platinum Games on queue for an F-Zero Hyper Stylish Racing Action Game.

Hero of Legend said:
Hot take, but since they're seemingly no longer affiliated with Sony, maybe Nintendo and Camelot should consider roping in Clap Hanz, either as a support team, or outright merging/absorbing them back into Camelot. After all they were born from Camelot after making the original Hot Shots Golf on PS1.

Camelot have 40-odd folks with Clap Hanz at just over 20. So that'd be a 50% increase of staff right there. Actually I'm shocked Clap Hanz even managed to make the PS4 Golf games unless Japan Studio did the heavy lifting on those.
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The Giant said:
That's what i've been thinking as well.

But I reckon Clap Hanz should take over the Mario Golf series, while Camelot make a new ip or golden sun.
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Bringing Clap Hanz into the fold for Mario Golf development is actually an intriguing idea. Whether supporting or integrated, their involvement might be able to help with some of the issues associated with the recent sports titles, helping to flesh out additional modes and provide development support in general.

There's the question of what this would mean overall, how it might impact development at both Camelot and at Clap Hanz, if it might help only with more fully realizing these titles or if it might also allow for development of other projects.

It's worth noting, of course, that Clap Hanz is also looking to make more than just golf games going forward.

Nathan Little said:
😢
They should call you Mean Cloud.
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What is a Dark Cloud but an ill portent, a harbinger of doom?

Dark Cloud said:
Ever Oasis can stay dead. Not everything created should come back. It was a complete flop then. Same with stuff like Codename STEAM. Someone has to make new 2D Zelda games and they should try to make a new IP on Switch if they want.
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It's true, not everything created needs to come back, though I find the industry treats these games as too expendable as is, like mere commercial commodities rather than as potential art -- not that all games would necessarily require such consideration.

That said, something not doing well initially, for whatever reasons there might be, doesn't always mean it can't be given another chance. And port work could be done from elsewhere, even, freeing up these groups for other projects as mentioned.

Of course, not everything will or can be given a second chance, even in cases where it can be argued they really should.
 
EAD Ninja said:
Breaking down EPD internal development -- currently we have about 8 steady core groups.

AC team
Splatoon team
2D Mario team
3D Mario team
Mario Kart team
3D Zelda team
Kawamoto Casual Team #1
Kawamoto Casual Team #2

Miitomo/Dr. Mario World Team

The only imminent change I foresee is if the Tokyo unit erects that second full production unit next to 3D Mario (Donkey Kong?).
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How do the projects split between the casual teams, again? Obviously one is Ring Fit and the other is Brain Training / Big Brain Academy; but which team(s) does Labo / Game Builder Garage and 1-2-Switch fall under? We don't have credits for the latter if I recall, right?

Beyond that, do you think those EPD 4 causal teams would be the ones to take on the internal series formerly under Sakamoto like Tomodachi and Rhythm Heaven now?
 
Dark Cloud said:
Nintendo co-developing is surprising. Its always been fully NLG
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Nintendo's always had a "symbiotic" method for working with outside talent. EPD is heavily involved with the production and creative process, as much as the lead studio is. In other words, EPD "co-developed" pretty much every single Nintendo published title.
 
Dark Cloud said:
Nintendo co-developing is surprising. Its always been fully NLG
Click to expand...

what does this mean?

I assume any project with a Nintendo IP would be 'co-developed', doubly so if it's Mario. Nintendo needs to stamp out Daisy booty before it hits the shelves
 
karmitt said:
what does this mean?

I assume any project with a Nintendo IP would be 'co-developed', doubly so if it's Mario. Nintendo needs to stamp out Daisy booty before it hits the shelves
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they didn't hide Luigi's package with Camelot

what's with the double standard, Nintendo!?
 
We know what Nintendo does. Nobody ever says anything is co-developed by Nintendo. I’ve been around games forever. The language “Nintendo co-developed Metroid Prime or Mario Strikers” isn’t something I’d hear one say.

But yeah they probably mean EPD doing their usual stuff which everyone knows already.
 
Dark Cloud said:
We know what Nintendo does. Nobody ever says anything is co-developed by Nintendo. I’ve been around games forever. The language “Nintendo co-developed Metroid Prime or Mario Strikers” isn’t something I’d hear one say.

But yeah they probably mean EPD doing their usual stuff which everyone knows already.
Click to expand...

It's usually Nintendo themselves to refers to externally developed games as "co-developed". They used the same language regarding Retro's games too.
 
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EAD Ninja said:
Breaking down EPD internal development -- currently we have about 8 steady core groups.

AC team
Splatoon team
2D Mario team
3D Mario team
Mario Kart team
3D Zelda team
Kawamoto Casual Team #1
Kawamoto Casual Team #2

Miitomo/Dr. Mario World Team

The only imminent change I foresee is if the Tokyo unit erects that second full production unit next to 3D Mario (Donkey Kong?).
Click to expand...
Do you think EPD7 is fully external at his point?
 
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EAD Ninja said:
Breaking down EPD internal development -- currently we have about 8 steady core groups.

AC team
Splatoon team
2D Mario team
3D Mario team
Mario Kart team
3D Zelda team
Kawamoto Casual Team #1
Kawamoto Casual Team #2

Miitomo/Dr. Mario World Team

The only imminent change I foresee is if the Tokyo unit erects that second full production unit next to 3D Mario (Donkey Kong?).
Click to expand...
Hope we see some new IPs from those cores teams in the next 5 years. Arms was nice to see.frlm the Mario Kart team. Just afraid when we get to the Switch 2 it's just going to be cycling through these major sellers again as usual.
 
TheDok said:
Hope we see some new IPs from those cores teams in the next 5 years. Arms was nice to see.frlm the Mario Kart team. Just afraid when we get to the Switch 2 it's just going to be cycling through these major sellers again as usual.
Click to expand...
You also have to consider whether the developers are actually in the mood to make a New IP at the moment as well. If they have an idea or prototype that they think would work well with a New IP, then you'll see one as was the case with ARMS and Splatoon.
 
It's not so much about being "in the mood" it's more that they need to stumble on an idea that seems both viable and would even justify being its own thing and not just a new twist on existing IP X or Y.

Think about how they decided against slapping Mario onto Splatoon or how Captain Toad started out as a Zelda pitch.
 
I know this is old news, but I only just found out that NST was the primary developer on Bowser's Fury; I can't believe that! That's absolutely insane! It's nothing even remotely like their previous work! Not a single typical NST hallmark to be found!

MondoMega said:
LunchPack means this is all but certainly an internal project.

Click to expand...


Not necessarily... Bandai-Namco helped out on Wii Sports Club, Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon; but they were all still using Nintendo's in-house engine. The art style and those Sportsmate designs all bear Namco's typical hallmarks, so I'd be very shocked if they're not working on this one.
 
Dcubed said:
I know this is old news, but I only just found out that NST was the primary developer on Bowser's Fury; I can't believe that! That's absolutely insane! It's nothing even remotely like their previous work! Not a single typical NST hallmark to be found!



Not necessarily... Bandai-Namco helped out on Wii Sports Club, Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon; but they were all still using Nintendo's in-house engine. The art style and those Sportsmate designs all bear Namco's typical hallmarks, so I'd be very shocked if they're not working on this one.
Click to expand...
What's even an "nst hallmark"

Bamco was development assistance. They probably are again here. They don't have any bearing on engine or art style
 
ILikeFeet said:
What's even an "nst hallmark"

Bamco was development assistance. They probably are again here. They don't have any bearing on engine or art style
Click to expand...
For starters. All NST made games up until Bowser's Fury have had their music done in-house; without exception. This is the first time that NST have made a game where they let an outside studio do the music.

Then there's the level design, which is nothing like anything we've ever seen from them before (normally their games have an odd sort of rigidity to their pacing, that you can kind of tell comes from them); ditto with the UI/UX design. The art style is also much more "Nintendo-like" and "Japanese" than anything they've ever done before.

NST games all have a signature look and feel that is completely absent from Bowser's Fury. That's why it's so shocking to me! It literally looks and feels like it came from EPD Tokyo themselves, absolutely nothing like what you would expect from NST!
 
Dcubed said:
NST games all have a signature look and feel that is completely absent from Bowser's Fury. That's why it's so shocking to me!
Click to expand...
It's an expansion to an existing game which is reusing assets from said game. The art direction and sound design needs to be consistent with that.
 
MisterSpo said:
It's an expansion to an existing game which is reusing assets from said game. The art direction and sound design needs to be consistent with that.
Click to expand...
They've never successfully pulled this off with any of their previous games, even the ones that are direct sequels. Like, compare Metroid Prime Hunters to any of the other Metroid Prime games and you can just tell it comes from NST. Or compare Wave Race Blue Storm to 64 and you can tell it wasn't made by EAD just by looking at it. Or looking at Mario VS DK and you can tell it wasn't made by NCL.

Bowser's Fury is the first time where they have honest to goodness made something that truly looks and feels like it could've come from EAD/EPD. They actually fooled me!

Though that being said, it explains a lot about the technical issues with the game on Switch (especially in handheld mode). Did always think that it was really out of character for Nintendo EPD to prioritise visuals over performance... Now I know why! It wasn't them!
 
0
I'm not sure that we can conclude from the credits that NST were the "primary" developers on Bowser's Fury. We just know that a large portion of the staff came from NST alongside people from EPD and 1-Up Studio.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
I'm not sure that we can conclude from the credits that NST were the "primary" developers on Bowser's Fury. We just know that a large portion of the staff came from NST alongside people from EPD and 1-Up Studio.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think this needs saying, too. It is presumably the case that EPD 8 led development with substantial support from NST and 1-Up.
 
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Dcubed said:
Not necessarily... Bandai-Namco helped out on Wii Sports Club, Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon; but they were all still using Nintendo's in-house engine. The art style and those Sportsmate designs all bear Namco's typical hallmarks, so I'd be very shocked if they're not working on this one.
Click to expand...

Bandai-Namco didn't graphically assist on Splatoon. As far as Nintendo Switch Sports, I would guess this was actually programmed in-house because of the specific areas of tech being used. It just really lead to Nintendo's expertise (specifically Production Group No.04). But nothing is ever certain. If Bandai-Namco is involved on the graphic assist it really is a minute detail and a much different scenario than the game being developed outside of Nintendo by NBG or any other contractor.
 
Kind of surprising that NSS doesn't seem to use Nintendo's new online infrastructure, though. I thought all games going forward would use it.
 
Rin-go said:
Kind of surprising that NSS doesn't seem to use Nintendo's new online infrastructure, though. I thought all games going forward would use it.
Click to expand...
Pokemon Legends is using a beta version of it so it likely isn't finished quite yet. If Splatoon 3 doesn't use it, we'd should be concerned though
 
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Dardan Sandiego said:
I'm not sure that we can conclude from the credits that NST were the "primary" developers on Bowser's Fury. We just know that a large portion of the staff came from NST alongside people from EPD and 1-Up Studio.
Click to expand...
Large is an understatement,it outnumbers nintendo in every role,with only 4 programmers from nintendo,1 from 1-UP and 16 from nst i wouldnt call it support,they did most of the work

Production
Yoshiaki Koizumi
Shigeru Miyamoto
Kenta Motokura
Shinya Takahashi
Kaori Ando
Atsushi Yamaguchi
Daisuke Tsujimura

NST
Shigeki Yamashiro
Karen Ishikawa
Lauren Wells
David Carlson
Nobuyo Johnston
Laura Nelson
Tomosumi Sato

Planning
Shinya Hiratake
Yuka Kitahara
Futoshi Shirai

1-UP
Yuichi Iwasa
Eisaku Sato
Nozomi Isoda

NST
Philip Brodsky
Brandon Dulyea
Paul Kranich
Vincent Leone
Kees Luyendijk
Vivek Melwani
Daisy Pigeon
Chris Polney

Art
Yasuhiko Matsuzaki
Yuki Nakamura
Kazunori Hashimoto
Sho Murata
Hirotaka Tanikawa
Mizuki Tatsuno
Rikuto Yoshida
Shuhei Sugimoto
Eiji Funahashi

1-UP
Yotaro Doi
Teppei Kamata
Kyoko Kamikubo
Mio Kikuchi
Yujiro Mori
Naoya Nihei
Ikki Oikawa
Koki Sasaki
Haruka Seko
Risa Sugimoto
Takayuki Yaeno
Shuhei Ishii

NST
Kevin Chung
Jeremiah Gallardo
Marcos Gomes
Francisco Guerrero Lopes
Erica Hanson
Brian McNeely
Steven Petofalvi
Geoff Phoenix
Fei Mi Quek
Diego Rothenbach
Anthony Settimi
Edward Sherman
James Showecker
Mark Trono
Sean Yamura
Arturo Jauregui Osante
Amber Kalina
Jami Moravetz
Mic Marvin
Joel Blakely

Sound
Nobuyoshi Suzuki
Daisuke Matsuoka
Yuki Tsuji

1-UP
Hiroki Araya

NST
James Phillipsen

Programming
Katsuyasu Ando
Norihiro Aoyagi
Takeshi Hayakawa
Hideyuki Sugawara

1-UP
Yuichi Kurata

NST
Ruchi Bhatwal
Jonathan Bryant
Silvia Draper
Gregory Hall
Jonathan Johnston
Rory Johnston
Zakary Wilson
Mark Smith
Cristina Pohlenz Garza
Sean Lutterman
Ryan Lynd
Deana McCarthy
Gabriel Miller
Timoty Minalia
Yoonjoon Lee
Carlie Olson

Debug
Toru Inage
Asuka Nishiura
Hitomi Naitoh
Sayaka Takagi
Takeshi Tamura

NST
Nami Jamesson

Network
Mizuki Fujisawa

Artwork
Shigehisa Nakaue
Keisuke Okubo
Yuri Adachi

Unknown
Taiki Asamizu
Rika Fukumoto
Kanji Kobayashi
Kumiko Terashima
Yukinori Arata
Kenichiro Ikeya
Masato Misaki


Plus the canadian copyright only lists the highest positions in a project and here is bowser fury :

Registration number: 1180976 - Canadian Copyright Database - Canadian Copyright Database - Canadian Intellectual Property Office - Intellectual property and copyright - Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

www.ic.gc.ca www.ic.gc.ca

Shinya Hiratake
Katsuyasu Ando
Brian McNeely
Yuki Tsuji
Rory Johnston
Rikuto Yoshida

Compare it to Odyssey when they only list nintendo staff,nobody from 1-UP

Registration number: 1145840 - Canadian Copyright Database - Canadian Copyright Database - Canadian Intellectual Property Office - Intellectual property and copyright - Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

www.ic.gc.ca www.ic.gc.ca

or BOTW,again no staff from Monolith,only nintendo staff

Registration number: 1139151 - Canadian Copyright Database - Canadian Copyright Database - Canadian Intellectual Property Office - Intellectual property and copyright - Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

www.ic.gc.ca www.ic.gc.ca

That means that Brian McNeely and Rory Johnston had a director/manager level role on the project


And theres the fact that the main game had major changes too, so we dont know if the nintendo staff is credited for the 3d world port or bowser fury,but several sources from nst only ever especified bowser fury so nintendo ported 3d world


Plus we know the bowsers fury model came from nst, the namesake of the project,the most important asset

gallery_rig_bowser.jpg
 
Dcubed said:
For starters. All NST made games up until Bowser's Fury have had their music done in-house; without exception. This is the first time that NST have made a game where they let an outside studio do the music.

Then there's the level design, which is nothing like anything we've ever seen from them before (normally their games have an odd sort of rigidity to their pacing, that you can kind of tell comes from them); ditto with the UI/UX design. The art style is also much more "Nintendo-like" and "Japanese" than anything they've ever done before.

NST games all have a signature look and feel that is completely absent from Bowser's Fury. That's why it's so shocking to me! It literally looks and feels like it came from EPD Tokyo themselves, absolutely nothing like what you would expect from NST!
Click to expand...

Their last project was Captain Toad DLC,sole developer, you can already see the bowser fury style who is a bit different from nintendos

Portfolio | home

www.marcosig.com www.marcosig.com
"Goomba Galleon, from the Captain Toad Treasure Tracker Special Episode
All modelling and partial texturing - Maya, Substance Designer and Substance Painter"
hongo1.webp

XAL02100095436-20190325-0213.webp
 
Dcubed said:
Not necessarily... Bandai-Namco helped out on Wii Sports Club, Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon; but they were all still using Nintendo's in-house engine.
Click to expand...
Only the latter of those three games uses the LunchPack engine, and Bandai Namco didn’t even assist on that one.

Bandai Namco’s role on Mario Kart 8 was “producing visual assets”, same for ARMS (their actual first involvement with a LunchPack project); not programmers or any other role that would actually require them directly working with either proprietary engine.

Namco’s involvement on Wii Sports Club was more than helping, they handled the brunt of development (with Nintendo staff in lead roles directing them). I don’t know what engine it used though, but since it was primarily developed externally I can only assume it was an in-house engine, but from Bandai Namco’s side.
 
0
Bowser's Fury is the best 3D Mario since Galaxy, so I'm stoked what's coming out of NST next.

Also it means that EPD Tokyo had plenty of time to work on their own game... Hmm intensifies.
 
To me Bowser's fury was a better game than Odyssey, which was already stellar. I have endless faith in NST now.
I'm really hoping they will work on their own full game in the future.
 
On that note above, I should probably update my internal engine use chart again.

UGVTrwM.png


I think Switch Sports' EPD Group is easy enough to guess, but i'm trying to present things factually and we still don't know for certain. Also why Splatoon 3 isn't over on the LunchPack side yet, where it'll obviously end up. 1-2-Switch is the only game i'm unsure of at this point (hence the question mark).
 
MondoMega said:
On that note above, I should probably update my internal engine use chart again.

UGVTrwM.png


I think Switch Sports' EPD Group is easy enough to guess, but i'm trying to present things factually and we still don't know for certain. Also why Splatoon 3 isn't over on the LunchPack side yet, where it'll obviously end up. 1-2-Switch is the only game i'm unsure of at this point (hence the question mark).
Click to expand...
Breath of the Wild uses the engine KingSystem

https://zeldamods.org/wiki/KingSystem

https://zeldamods.org/wiki/Overview
 
Wii Sports Club was an unfinished prototype EPD developed (Golf, Baseball) as shown at E3, that they handed over to Namco-Bandai to finish. Shimamura mentions that EAD/SPD and Network Service Dept all had to jump back in to finish the game (Iwata Asks).

As far as 3D World + Bowser's Fury. Evidence does point to EPD handling the 3D World port, and NST mainly developing Bowser's Fury. However, there is evidence that EPD Tokyo did actual work on Bowser's Fury, it's also incredibly likely that Bowser's Fury was an unfinished prototype at Tokyo that EPD commissioned NST to finish. (See above, Nintendo does this a lot, also see Steel Diver, Star Fox Zero, Face Training DS, etc.). It also seems to fit in with NST's role within the EPD structure - almost harkening back to how they originally worked off of EPD source material to create their games (Blue Storm, Avalanche).
 
Woah, I totally expected it to be the other way around. NST on the 3D World port and EPD on Fury. That's huge.
 
0
I always found it a little confusing when people positioned Bowser's Fury as a preview for the next Mario game; to me it felt like a fun concept that simply couldn't carry an entire Mario game. I mean, you can definitely identify the general principle that you spend as much time as possible in the world playing, with minimal interruption between objectives as something to be carried into future games; but it's also something Odyssey had already ran with when compared to the other 3D Mario titles.

Bright side is: EPD 8 have been doing something and it's only a matter of time (haha, oh no) until we see it.
 
All these games where EPD doing little work. Then where the hell is their next game. 3D Mario or that DK game got to be coming sometime soon. This holiday will be 5 years. 5 years for 3D Mario. People already talking about BotW 2 is taking over 5 years and it’s set on BotW’s foundation.

What 3D Mario has going for it is it hasn’t been announced yet so we don’t know if it’s Odyssey 2 or a new 3D Mario concept. There’s the DK rumor and Covid of course (but that’s the entire industry).
 
Dark Cloud said:
What 3D Mario has going for it is it hasn’t been announced yet so we don’t know if it’s Odyssey 2 or a new 3D Mario concept.
Click to expand...
Galaxy - Galaxy 2
3D Land - 3D World

I would be very surprised if the next game is not sequel to Odyssey. Cappy mechanic is just so great that it would be a shame to get rid of it after one game, but at this point who knows. Maybe next 3D Mario is for next gen hardware, because if it's releasing in 2023 then it would take some time to release new one for next gen hardware.
 
LukasManak22 said:
Galaxy - Galaxy 2
3D Land - 3D World

I would be very surprised if the next game is not sequel to Odyssey. Cappy mechanic is just so great that it would be a shame to get rid of it after one game, but at this point who knows. Maybe next 3D Mario is for next gen hardware, because if it's releasing in 2023 then it would take some time to release new one for next gen hardware.
Click to expand...
I would agree Odyssey 2 would be next, which makes it even worse that it’s taking so long lol.

That’s why I want to believe the DK rumor to say ok get DK now by them. Slowly work on 3D Mario to release later. Idk though going over 6 years between new Mario games. Seems way to long to hold a game that’s possibly iterating on Odyssey.
 
Dark Cloud said:
All these games where EPD doing little work. Then where the hell is their next game. 3D Mario or that DK game got to be coming sometime soon. This holiday will be 5 years. 5 years for 3D Mario. People already talking about BotW 2 is taking over 5 years and it’s set on BotW’s foundation.

What 3D Mario has going for it is it hasn’t been announced yet so we don’t know if it’s Odyssey 2 or a new 3D Mario concept. There’s the DK rumor and Covid of course (but that’s the entire industry).
Click to expand...
The pandemic is the big stopping point for EPD. Right up to Animal Crossing, the launches are pretty regular - including Ring Fit Adventure and Super Mario Maker 2, which came 5 and 8 months before Animal Crossing, respectively, with the Labo VR Kit a couple of months before Mario Maker 2. We had the Labo kits and the first-party expansions in 2018 following multiple launches in 2017. This year we've now got three internal titles set (Switch Sports, Splatoon 3, Zelda) plus Kart DLC.

The biggest bottle-neck on EPD is the size of the internal pool of resources. Until that's addressed, I don't expect to see more than an average of 2 to 3 big internal games each year, and you're going to get big gaps between resource intensive franchises. 2020 and 2021 are the years that fall below that and, well, them's your pandemic years right there (but I don't see how 2020 could've been much better for EPD, really).
 
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