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StarTopic Nintendo First Party Software Development |ST| Nintendo Party Superstars

Reader mode
Ojoloco said:
Small reminder, because this is always misunderstood, that games are rated without being finished, when they can be played from start to finish but still have to be developed, tested, polished, etc.
Click to expand...

That is an important factor to keep in mind; games don't have to go gold to be rated, just content complete. This doesn't matter in the case of TTYD though, since it was still completed last year regardless.

The Australian Classification board is another that includes the date the rating was given, just like USK, but it also includes the Year of Production; and these two dates don't always need to be in alignment with each other or the release year. Some examples:
  • Tears of the Kingdom was rated in November 2022, but the year of production is still 2023. This makes sense, as we only got official word of the game going gold in March 2023; bit more additional time for polish presumably.
  • Bayonetta Origins was only rated in December 2022, just in time for the TGA announcement, but despite being rated after TOTK the year of production is listed as 2022; aligning with the relatively early USK rating in July the same year.
  • Unlike their USK ratings dating back to 2021, FE Engage and Metroid Prime Remastered weren't rated in Australia until 2022 (former in September around the Direct announcement, and the latter in November); yet the year of production is still listed as 2021 for both (once again in alignment with the USK ratings, and the general insider hearsay surrounding both games before their announcements).
With that in mind, of the first-party games released so far this year: Another Code, MvDK and TTYD have a year of production of 2023, while Peach Showtime and Endless Ocean are 2024.
 
MondoMega said:
That is an important factor to keep in mind; games don't have to go gold to be rated, just content complete. This doesn't matter in the case of TTYD though, since it was still completed last year regardless.

The Australian Classification board is another that includes the date the rating was given, just like USK, but it also includes the Year of Production; and these two dates don't always need to be in alignment with each other or the release year. Some examples:
  • Tears of the Kingdom was rated in November 2022, but the year of production is still 2023. This makes sense, as we only got official word of the game going gold in March 2023; bit more additional time for polish presumably.
  • Bayonetta Origins was only rated in December 2022, just in time for the TGA announcement, but despite being rated after TOTK the year of production is listed as 2022; aligning with the relatively early USK rating in July the same year.
  • Unlike their USK ratings dating back to 2021, FE Engage and Metroid Prime Remastered weren't rated in Australia until 2022 (former in September around the Direct announcement, and the latter in November); yet the year of production is still listed as 2021 for both (once again in alignment with the USK ratings, and the general insider hearsay surrounding both games before their announcements).
With that in mind, of the first-party games released so far this year: Another Code, MvDK and TTYD have a year of production of 2023, while Peach Showtime and Endless Ocean are 2024.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be so sure of what you're saying, given that a lot of other games released in 2024, such as Hellblade 2 or Avowed, received the rating on the same dates as Paper Mario, and they put the year of production in 2023.

https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/senuas-saga-hellblade-ii

https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/avowed

https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/final-fantasy-vii-rebirth

https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/rise-ronin

https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/star-wars-outlaws

https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/plucky-squire

At most I would say that it is an indicative measure that the registry organization has. That is, it does not really indicate when the game development is over.
If the registration is before X date or something like that, it automatically puts it in the production year in that year, instead of putting it in the following year. Without being any real indicator for development.
 
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Ojoloco said:
I wouldn't be so sure of what you're saying, given that other games released in 2024, such as Hellblade 2 or Avowed, received the rating on the same dates as Paper Mario, and they put the year of production in 2023.

https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/senuas-saga-hellblade-ii

https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/avowed
Click to expand...

Different publishers are going to submit their info differently. Microsoft first-party games have made plenty of mistakes in the past too, like listing Redfall for every possible platform; looking forward to that 3DS release!

I've checked every single first-party switch listing in the past and besides two exceptions, basically all of them are in alignment with our prior understanding of the development of these games. Games with a year of production that don't align with their release year being:
  • 1-2-Switch - 2016 (was rated in early 2017 in Australia, so that isn't the reason for the date; as a launch title and relatively simple tech demo compared to the complex Breath of the Wild, it's logical for it to have been completed first)
  • New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe - 2018 (we already knew the game was completed prior to the end of June 2018 due to Kimishima being credited as the executive producer; USK rating was in late 2017 which shows the difference between content complete enough for a rating, and going gold)
  • Yoshi’s Crafted World - 2018 (game was uploaded to the eShop CDN in December 2018, no doubts about this one)
  • Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 04: VR Kit - 2018 (will be a common trend going forward for releases early enough into any given year; but also just makes sense to have wrapped closer to the other Labo kits)
  • Dr. Kawashima’s Brain Training for Nintendo Switch - 2019 (released in 2019 in Japan, and released on the first week of Janaury outside of Japan anyway, no question here)
  • Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE Encore - 2019 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
  • Bravely Default II - 2020 (February release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
  • Pokémon Legends: Arceus - 2021 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year; based on our understanding of the development of this game and BDSP it would've been intended to launch in November 2021 at some point in time anyway)
  • Kirby and the Forgotten Land - 2021 (March release; still feasible enough for it to have wrapped the prior year; USK rating was also exceptionally early; the staff overlap with Dream Buffet also implies they either moved on quickly or they were developed in conjuction)
  • Fire Emblem Engage - 2021 (already discussed as an example above)
  • Metroid Prime Remastered - 2021 (already discussed as an example above)
  • Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - 2022 (February release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
  • Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demon - 2022 (already discussed as an example above; in interviews it has also been mentioned that the game was in development alongside Bayonetta 3 and that Platinum staff were unsure which would release first; would only make sense for both to have been wrapping up around the same time for that to be true)
  • Advance Wars 1+2: Re-Boot Camp - 2021 (the game's delay for reasons outside of their control is publicly known and understood; physical copies were sitting printed for over a year before launch, as proven by the My Nintendo points being expired in some regions)
  • Another Code: Recollection - 2023 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year; USK rating was also exceptionally early)
  • Mario vs. Donkey Kong - 2023 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year; based on NST staff listings on LinkedIn, development ended around October, this is in alignment with that)
  • Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - 2023 (well this is the one the whole discussion has been over lol; being rated well before the announcement while games releasing sooner were not yet rated in September was curious on its own)
Those two exceptions I referenced at the start are 3D World + Bowser's Fury and Everybody 1-2-Switch, both listed with their launch year. The former is curious because we have the exact time and date the final change to the game was pushed from build info in the files, and it was in November 2020. The latter somewhat contradicts the rumors about the game's existance, having been completed but sat on due to poor internal testing; though it's very possible they made some adjustments even going into 2023. Still, both of these cases are later than the expected dates would be, not earlier; I see no reason to doubt TTYD having been complete last year.
 
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MondoMega said:
Different publishers are going to submit their info differently. I've checked every single first-party switch listing in the past and besides two exceptions, basically all of them are in alignment with our prior understanding of the development of these games. Games with a year of production that don't align with their release year being:
  • 1-2-Switch - 2016 (was rated in early 2017 in Australia, so that isn't the reason for the date; as a launch title and relatively simple tech demo compared to the complex Breath of the Wild, it's logical for it to have been completed first)
  • New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe - 2018 (we already knew the game was completed prior to the end of June 2018 due to Kimishima being credited as the executive producer; USK rating was in late 2017 which shows the difference between content complete enough for a rating, and going gold)
  • Yoshi’s Crafted World - 2018 (game was uploaded to the eShop CDN in December 2018, no doubts about this one)
  • Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 04: VR Kit - 2018 (will be a common trend going forward for releases early enough into any given year; but also just makes sense to have wrapped closer to the other Labo kits)
  • Dr. Kawashima’s Brain Training for Nintendo Switch - 2019 (released in 2019 in Japan, and released on the first week of Janaury outside of Japan anyway, no question here)
  • Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE Encore - 2019 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
  • Bravely Default II - 2020 (February release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
  • Pokémon Legends: Arceus - 2021 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year; based on our understanding of the development of this game and BDSP it would've been intended to launch in November 2021 at some point in time anyway)
  • Kirby and the Forgotten Land - 2021 (March release; still feasible enough for it to have wrapped the prior year; USK rating was also exceptionally early; the staff overlap with Dream Buffet also implies they either moved on quickly or they were developed in conjuction. any way you look at it this makes sense)
  • Fire Emblem Engage - 2021 (already discussed as an example above)
  • Metroid Prime Remastered - 2021 (already discussed as an example above)
  • Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - 2022 (February release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
  • Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demon - 2022 (already discussed as an example above; in interviews it has also been mentioned that the game was in development alongside Bayonetta 3 and that Platinum staff were unsure which would release first; would only make sense for both to have been wrapping up around the same time for that to be true)
  • Advance Wars 1+2: Re-Boot Camp - 2021 (the game's delay for reasons outside of their control is publicly known and understood; physical copies were sitting printed for over a year before launch, as proven by the My Nintendo points being expired in some regions)
  • Another Code: Recollection - 2023 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year; USK rating was also exceptionally early)
  • Mario vs. Donkey Kong - 2023 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year; based on NST staff listings on LinkedIn, development ended around October, this is in alignment with that)
  • Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - 2023 (well this is the one the whole discussion has been over lol; being rated well before the announcement while games releasing sooner were not yet rated in September was curious on its own)
Those two exceptions I referenced at the start are 3D World + Bowser's Fury and Everybody 1-2-Switch, both listed with their launch year. The former is curious because we have the exact time and date the final change to the game was pushed from build info in the files, and it was in November 2020. The latter somewhat contradicts the rumors about the game's existance, having been completed but sat on due to poor internal testing; though it's very possible they made some adjustments even going into 2023. Still, both of these cases are later than the expected dates would be, not earlier; I see no reason to doubt TTYD having been complete last year.
Click to expand...
Giving examples of games that came out in January-February is not the best, because it is normal for them to be finished 1 or 2 months before being launched to produce the entire physical distribution. There's a reason I haven't given Prince of Persia or Suicide Squad as examples, it doesn't make sense because it's evident from the dates.


And since we're talking about a body that has taken the same date for all rated games over a period of time, I wouldn't say with any certainty that Paper Mario was finished as of last year. It's something no one will ever be sure of until another gigaleak happens. (Personally, I think Paper Mario was finished in December, although if it was in January/February I wouldn't find it strange)


Anyway, the point is that using the ratings to say "the game has been finished for a year" (I'm not saying this because of you, but because it's the misinterpretation that people are giving it), is not true.


Likewise, it has been an interesting conversation and I hope that people are clearer that a rating does not mean that it is finished.
 
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MondoMega said:
Different publishers are going to submit their info differently. Microsoft first-party games have made plenty of mistakes in the past too, like listing Redfall for every possible platform; looking forward to that 3DS release!

I've checked every single first-party switch listing in the past and besides two exceptions, basically all of them are in alignment with our prior understanding of the development of these games. Games with a year of production that don't align with their release year being:
  • 1-2-Switch - 2016 (was rated in early 2017 in Australia, so that isn't the reason for the date; as a launch title and relatively simple tech demo compared to the complex Breath of the Wild, it's logical for it to have been completed first)
  • New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe - 2018 (we already knew the game was completed prior to the end of June 2018 due to Kimishima being credited as the executive producer; USK rating was in late 2017 which shows the difference between content complete enough for a rating, and going gold)
  • Yoshi’s Crafted World - 2018 (game was uploaded to the eShop CDN in December 2018, no doubts about this one)
  • Nintendo Labo Toy-Con 04: VR Kit - 2018 (will be a common trend going forward for releases early enough into any given year; but also just makes sense to have wrapped closer to the other Labo kits)
  • Dr. Kawashima’s Brain Training for Nintendo Switch - 2019 (released in 2019 in Japan, and released on the first week of Janaury outside of Japan anyway, no question here)
  • Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE Encore - 2019 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
  • Bravely Default II - 2020 (February release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
  • Pokémon Legends: Arceus - 2021 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year; based on our understanding of the development of this game and BDSP it would've been intended to launch in November 2021 at some point in time anyway)
  • Kirby and the Forgotten Land - 2021 (March release; still feasible enough for it to have wrapped the prior year; USK rating was also exceptionally early; the staff overlap with Dream Buffet also implies they either moved on quickly or they were developed in conjuction)
  • Fire Emblem Engage - 2021 (already discussed as an example above)
  • Metroid Prime Remastered - 2021 (already discussed as an example above)
  • Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe - 2022 (February release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
  • Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demon - 2022 (already discussed as an example above; in interviews it has also been mentioned that the game was in development alongside Bayonetta 3 and that Platinum staff were unsure which would release first; would only make sense for both to have been wrapping up around the same time for that to be true)
  • Advance Wars 1+2: Re-Boot Camp - 2021 (the game's delay for reasons outside of their control is publicly known and understood; physical copies were sitting printed for over a year before launch, as proven by the My Nintendo points being expired in some regions)
  • Another Code: Recollection - 2023 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year; USK rating was also exceptionally early)
  • Mario vs. Donkey Kong - 2023 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year; based on NST staff listings on LinkedIn, development ended around October, this is in alignment with that)
  • Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - 2023 (well this is the one the whole discussion has been over lol; being rated well before the announcement while games releasing sooner were not yet rated in September was curious on its own)
Those two exceptions I referenced at the start are 3D World + Bowser's Fury and Everybody 1-2-Switch, both listed with their launch year. The former is curious because we have the exact time and date the final change to the game was pushed from build info in the files, and it was in November 2020. The latter somewhat contradicts the rumors about the game's existance, having been completed but sat on due to poor internal testing; though it's very possible they made some adjustments even going into 2023. Still, both of these cases are later than the expected dates would be, not earlier; I see no reason to doubt TTYD having been complete last year.
Click to expand...
I just saw what you edited. Mocking is not necessary in a healthy debate, please.


Edit .If something in your message has been misinterpreted, I could very glad if we clarify it by talking, the interpretation of the tone may be due to cultural shock (at least in my country that tone is used when you take someone for a fool, I don't know if it is in your country or other countries equal).
Second chances to clarify things are always welcome.
 
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MondoMega said:
Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE Encore - 2019 (January release; feasible for it to have wrapped the prior year)
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I think it wasn't held back, if it were held back, they would've added English voice acting. The development team for the port mentioned that the time to make the game would've increased if they would've included English VA.

Which they should've included, could've helped the sales a little bit. The FE Heroes dub actors are good for the characters. Especially since the version on the Switch is the International WiiU version including removing vagina bones.
 
Man Camelot really needs some help from Nintendo to staff-up. I don't see them getting out of this spyral of somewhat underwhelming games unless they get the manpower to do something ambitious with the campaigns.
 
Luke88 said:
Man Camelot really needs some help from Nintendo to staff-up. I don't see them getting out of this spyral of somewhat underwhelming games unless they get the manpower to do something ambitious with the campaigns.
Click to expand...
Don’t think Nintendo can do much on that front outside of providing support. Camelot from what I remember wants to remain smallish with their numbers reflecting that over the years. Really they just have to be better about resource allocation & probably move their development to something more long term for each game.
 
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Luke88 said:
Man Camelot really needs some help from Nintendo to staff-up. I don't see them getting out of this spyral of somewhat underwhelming games unless they get the manpower to do something ambitious with the campaigns.
Click to expand...
I thought Tennis Aces was well received. Super Rush maybe not so much, but you have to take COVID into account.
 
this site translated old interviews with the whole ocarina of time/majoras mask staff, after more than 2 decades we know who made what

Ocarina Of Time Staff Survey (The 64 Dream #31) — Good Blood

goodblood.games goodblood.games

Majora's Mask Staff Survey (The 64 Dream #46) — Good Blood

goodblood.games goodblood.games

Kenta Usui: Inside the Deku Tree,Dodongo's Cavern,Inside Jabu-Jabu's Belly
Shinichi Ikematsu: FIRE TEMPLE, WATER TEMPLE, SHADOW TEMPLE, BOTTOM OF THE WELL
Takeshi Hosono: Forest Temple, Gerudo Training Ground
Hiromasa Shikata: Kakariko Village, Desert of Illusion
Hiromu Takemura: Region Maps, Polygonal Interiors, Items
Makoto Miyanaga: Hyrule Field
Jin Ikeda: Enemies,Cuckoos,King Dodongo,Jabu Jabu Exterior


Majoras Mask
Shinichi Ikematsu: Woodfall Temple, Great Bay Temple, Stone Tower Temple, other
Yoshihisa Morimoto: Pirates Fortress, Deku Palace, Beneath the Well
Shigeki Yoshida: Snowhead Temple
Hiromasa Shikata: Supervisor of environmental design,Clock Town, Romani Ranch, Ikana
Hiromu Takemura: Field Maps, Mini-Game maps
Kazumi Yamaguchi: Signs, stores and other indoor spaces
 
Smash Kirby said:
I think it wasn't held back, if it were held back, they would've added English voice acting. The development team for the port mentioned that the time to make the game would've increased if they would've included English VA.

Which they should've included, could've helped the sales a little bit. The FE Heroes dub actors are good for the characters. Especially since the version on the Switch is the International WiiU version including removing vagina bones.
Click to expand...
Even if it was held back, they wouldn't have enough budget for English VAs. They already added quite a lot of new contents despite being a smaller-scale Wii U port as-is.

Wockio said:
I thought Tennis Aces was well received. Super Rush maybe not so much, but you have to take COVID into account.
Click to expand...
Aces was doing really well yeah. Super Rush's unfortunately smaller contents was in part due to not having a Wii U game to based on for the Switch.

Either way I wouldn't say Camelot is in danger. They've been doing well enough with Mario Tennis/Golf.
 
P.Scoop said:
Even if it was held back, they wouldn't have enough budget for English VAs. They already added quite a lot of new contents despite being a smaller-scale Wii U port as-is.
Click to expand...
Personally, I would've been willing to have a delay and English VA with English VA songs as the reason why. Though there aren't a lot of English VAs that also sing.
 
0
I wonder what Nintendo's exact approach is in regards to being credited outside of their own platforms.

Project Zero 4 and 5 only feature Nintendo in the copyright info for the Switch release, that much is well known; but they also scrubbed all Nintendo staff credits in the multiplatform releases. The Switch versions not only retain the Nintendo staff credits, but strangely substitute Iwata for Furukawa despite this being under the original staff section of the credits; Shinji Hatano for Shinya Takahashi as well in the case of Mask of the Lunar Eclipse (as Takahashi was already in this role for the Wii U release of Maiden of Black Water, no change was made there).

Mask of the Lunar Eclipse credits, Switch (left) vs other platforms (right):

SMYhWQF.png
f1scZV1.png


Meanwhile, Lego City Undercover does retain the Nintendo staff credits in the original staff section on all platforms, albeit all shuffled under Special Thanks and no longer specifying their original roles.

BhbZRyH.png


Baten Kaitos 1+2 was rated for PC in a few regions, so if that ever surfaces i'd be curious to see how they approach not only the Nintendo logos and credits for Origins, but also Yasuyuki Honne and Koh Kojima being credited as Supervisors for the remasters themselves.
 
MondoMega said:
I wonder what Nintendo's exact approach is in regards to being credited outside of their own platforms.

Project Zero 4 and 5 only feature Nintendo in the copyright info for the Switch release, that much is well known; but they also scrubbed all Nintendo staff credits in the multiplatform releases. The Switch versions not only retain the Nintendo staff credits, but strangely substitute Iwata for Furukawa despite this being under the original staff section of the credits; Shinji Hatano for Shinya Takahashi as well in the case of Mask of the Lunar Eclipse (as Takahashi was already in this role for the Wii U release of Maiden of Black Water, no change was made there).

Mask of the Lunar Eclipse credits, Switch (left) vs other platforms (right):

SMYhWQF.png
f1scZV1.png


Meanwhile, Lego City Undercover does retain the Nintendo staff credits in the original staff section on all platforms, albeit all shuffled under Special Thanks and no longer specifying their original roles.

BhbZRyH.png


Baten Kaitos 1+2 was rated for PC in a few regions, so if that ever surfaces i'd be curious to see how they approach not only the Nintendo logos and credits for Origins, but also Yasuyuki Honne and Koh Kojima being credited as Supervisors for the remasters themselves.
Click to expand...
Huh. Usually the former would happen to a re-release utilizing new credits. I guess they kept that tradition by mistake even though it was supposed to be the original staff list.
 
0
MondoMega said:
I wonder what Nintendo's exact approach is in regards to being credited outside of their own platforms.

Project Zero 4 and 5 only feature Nintendo in the copyright info for the Switch release, that much is well known; but they also scrubbed all Nintendo staff credits in the multiplatform releases. The Switch versions not only retain the Nintendo staff credits, but strangely substitute Iwata for Furukawa despite this being under the original staff section of the credits; Shinji Hatano for Shinya Takahashi as well in the case of Mask of the Lunar Eclipse (as Takahashi was already in this role for the Wii U release of Maiden of Black Water, no change was made there).

Mask of the Lunar Eclipse credits, Switch (left) vs other platforms (right):

SMYhWQF.png
f1scZV1.png


Meanwhile, Lego City Undercover does retain the Nintendo staff credits in the original staff section on all platforms, albeit all shuffled under Special Thanks and no longer specifying their original roles.

BhbZRyH.png


Baten Kaitos 1+2 was rated for PC in a few regions, so if that ever surfaces i'd be curious to see how they approach not only the Nintendo logos and credits for Origins, but also Yasuyuki Honne and Koh Kojima being credited as Supervisors for the remasters themselves.
Click to expand...
i dont understand why the non switch versions dont have the copyright honestyl
 
Do we know if Nintendo still retains rights to Lego City Undercover? I remember originally folks thought that Lego had purchased the rights, but considering the situation with the Fatal Frame games, maybe they just gave permission to release them on multiple platforms?
 
APileofBananas said:
Do we know if Nintendo still retains rights to Lego City Undercover? I remember originally folks thought that Lego had purchased the rights, but considering the situation with the Fatal Frame games, maybe they just gave permission to release them on multiple platforms?
Click to expand...
We don’t know, the deals for this type of games vary quite a bit especially in this case in which another big IP is involved like LEGO. Unless there is a confirmation via either interview or re-release showing Nintendo copyright we just can’t know
 
0
APileofBananas said:
Do we know if Nintendo still retains rights to Lego City Undercover? I remember originally folks thought that Lego had purchased the rights, but considering the situation with the Fatal Frame games, maybe they just gave permission to release them on multiple platforms?
Click to expand...


According to the copyright of the WiiU version, the game belongs to TTGames (i.e. Warner). Nintendo's copyright is for Mario's cameos in the game, which were removed in the re-release after the end of exclusivity.
81jv04gO+wL.jpg
 
Ojoloco said:
According to the copyright of the WiiU version, the game belongs to TTGames (i.e. Warner). Nintendo's copyright is for Mario's cameos in the game, which were removed in the re-release after the end of exclusivity.
81jv04gO+wL.jpg
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They were retained in the Switch version IIRC. Problem was the Switch port was horrifically rushed and had some big issues, like an early flashback scene having horribly flashing "lights" or whatever that I'm appalled were never fixed.
 
I think Nintendo only had the publishing rights for LEGO City, which might explain the odd credits Mondo noted (that is, the LEGO team didn't get the memo and just assumed it was OK to credits their old friends at Nintendo as Special Thanks).
 
0
Hmm, I thought this was a situation similar to DC Super Hero Girls, where Nintendo isn't present in the copyright information, but it's still a First-Party game. Thought perhaps I'm just misunderstanding what the ownership situation there is.
 
APileofBananas said:
Hmm, I thought this was a situation similar to DC Super Hero Girls, where Nintendo isn't present in the copyright information, but it's still a First-Party game. Thought perhaps I'm just misunderstanding what the ownership situation there is.
Click to expand...
if nintendo has publishing duties, the game is first party. that's why SE stuff has Nintendo listed as publisher despite Nintendo now owning anything of those games
 
ILikeFeet said:
if nintendo has publishing duties, the game is first party. that's why SE stuff has Nintendo listed as publisher despite Nintendo now owning anything of those games
Click to expand...
I really wish this simple thing became widespread knowledge already. The whole thing is so simple, this entire second party concept doesn't even need to be referenced anymore other than a relic of a certain time in games (even when some relationships remain similar, this distinction serves no real purpose).
 
0
Nintendo's publishing rights are temporary though. I feel it's more meaningful to talk about Nintendo produced games, rather than Nintendo published ones.
 
Hero of Legend said:
They were retained in the Switch version IIRC. Problem was the Switch port was horrifically rushed and had some big issues, like an early flashback scene having horribly flashing "lights" or whatever that I'm appalled were never fixed.
Click to expand...

It's much better than Wii U version if you play docked. I own both.
 
ILikeFeet said:
if nintendo has publishing duties, the game is first party. that's why SE stuff has Nintendo listed as publisher despite Nintendo now owning anything of those games
Click to expand...
I dont know, i see those regional publishing just as that as nintendo isnt the funding company, its another one. its why i dont consider octopath or bravely default because i know square is the owner and original publisher.
 
Nemesis24 said:
I dont know, i see those regional publishing just as that as nintendo isnt the funding company, its another one. its why i dont consider octopath or bravely default because i know square is the owner and original publisher.
Click to expand...
none of us here considers it such, but Nintendo lists things as they do because it changes how the money moves about. if they're listing a game, any game as first party, there's a bit more investment into the game than just distribution in some manner
 
0
Shiver finally updated their website

the original opening blurb
Shiver is a boutique game developer based in warm and sunny Miami, Florida and part of Embracer Group. Our small team is made up of highly talented individuals who enjoy working together to make great games. We focus on console (Playstation, Xbox and Switch) and PC development for both original IP as well as large AAA titles (most recently we developed Mortal Kombat 11 for the Nintendo Switch).
Click to expand...

now
Shiver is a boutique game developer based in warm and sunny Miami, Florida. Our small team is made up of highly talented individuals who enjoy working together to make great games. We focus on console (Nintendo Switch and other platforms) and PC development for large AAA titles.
Click to expand...


before
We’re on a mission
Our goal is to create the world’s best games and have fun while we’re at it. Part of the allure of our boutique-sized studio is that you work on many different facets of the game – coupling your interests with the needs of the project. You won’t be a cog in a wheel here, hoping to work on the fun areas of the game – you’ll be doing that from day one, while working alongside some of the most talented folks in the industry.
Click to expand...

now
We’re on a mission
Our goal is to create the world’s best games and have fun while we’re at it. Part of the allure of our boutique-sized studio is that you work on many different facets of the game – coupling your interests with the needs of the project. You will get to work on the fun areas of the game from day one, working alongside some of the most talented folks in the industry.
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and, of course, the "Shiver is part of Embracer Group" at the bottom is gone
 
I wonder who at Nintendo initiated the idea of this acquisition. Of course, the final go-ahead comes from Furukawa, but the process would be interesting to unravel. Was it NoA's idea? If so, who validated the idea afterwards? Takahashi?

By the way, peripherally, I wonder who at NoA makes gaming decisions, since we know that Bowser, like his predecessor, are maketing people, not people involved in video games. We've been talking a lot about some of the recent recruitments concerning relationships with third-party publishers. Who wants this, internally? Who set this strategic direction?
 
boodream said:
I wonder who at Nintendo initiated the idea of this acquisition. Of course, the final go-ahead comes from Furukawa, but the process would be interesting to unravel. Was it NoA's idea? If so, who validated the idea afterwards? Takahashi?

By the way, peripherally, I wonder who at NoA makes gaming decisions, since we know that Bowser, like his predecessor, are maketing people, not people involved in video games. We've been talking a lot about some of the recent recruitments concerning relationships with third-party publishers. Who wants this, internally? Who set this strategic direction?
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given the people in charge of Shiver, they probably went to Doug Bowser, whom they have connections with as the founder of Shiver worked at EA at the same time as Bowser.

NCL would have definitely put forth some kind of order to improve third party relations. these kinds of things don't come from nothing and is probably spurred by their discussions during the Switch era. NCL probably recognized the need of more investment in the area to secure the big games they were missing
 
Interesting that even the branding remains the same with them "focusing" on "Console" and "PC Development". I wonder with this along with Nintendo's vague acquisition intention document, maybe they will actually continue to simply be a support/port studio working on games beyond Nintendo instead of them only finishing out their current contracts? Or do you think they're keeping it vague until the contracts are up? Doesn't really make sense to keep advertising it if they're not accepting anymore non-Nintendo contracts
 
Procheno said:
Interesting that even the branding remains the same with them "focusing" on "Console" and "PC Development". I wonder with this along with Nintendo's vague acquisition intention document, maybe they will actually continue to simply be a support/port studio working on games beyond Nintendo instead of them only finishing out their current contracts? Or do you think they're keeping it vague until the contracts are up? Doesn't really make sense to keep advertising it if they're not accepting anymore non-Nintendo contracts
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don't think it was all that vague. straight up says they will stay being a porting/support studio for external companies

Going forward, even after it becomes a part of the Nintendo group, Shiver’s focus will remain the same, continuing commissions that port and develop software for multiple platforms including Nintendo Switch.
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it's probably that it's a weird arrangement for a first party studio to be in this business that folks are overthinking it
 
ILikeFeet said:
don't think it was all that vague. straight up says they will stay being a porting/support studio for external companies



it's probably that it's a weird arrangement for a first party studio to be in this business that folks are overthinking it
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So why buy them then? They're not collecting that big of checks for keeping the lights on
 
Procheno said:
So why buy them then? They're not collecting that big of checks for keeping the lights on
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Probably because there currently aren't that many studios specialized at porting big 3rd party games to Switch, and Shiver being under Embracer meant there was a very real chance that it could get shuttered or sold to someone who wouldn't want them to keep porting games to Switch

Buying Shiver was probably a fairly small investment to keep a studio that made a "better than it had any right to be" Switch port of a PS5/Xbox Series-only title in business and available for 3rds as they head into Switch 2

It also keeps that technical knowledge and skill in one convenient place so that Nintendo now has a western team adept at, for example, Unreal Engine 5 that they can theoretically offer to 3rd parties for advice or assistance with Nintendo ports
 
BlackthornOrion said:
Probably because there currently aren't that many studios specialized at porting big 3rd party games to Switch, and Shiver being under Embracer meant there was a very real chance that it could get shuttered or sold to someone who wouldn't want them to keep porting games to Switch

Buying Shiver was probably a fairly small investment to keep a studio that made a "better than it had any right to be" Switch port of a PS5/Xbox Series-only title in business and available for 3rds as they head into Switch 2

It also keeps that technical knowledge and skill in one convenient place so that Nintendo now has a western team adept at, for example, Unreal Engine 5 that they can theoretically offer to 3rd parties for advice or assistance with Nintendo ports
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No, I understand the value they bring as an expert team porting AAA 3rd party games to Switch/Switch 2.

My argument was that I wouldn't understand the value of buying the company if they were to continue to work as a porting house for 3rd parties to bring games to PC, Xbox, & PS5 beyond their current contracts. Shiver's updated website doesn't really emphasize a shift in focus primarily to Nintendo platforms but rather "consoles" and "PC" still. So if they were to continue without change, then why? Why not make them work exclusively on ports to Nintendo after their contracts are up? Their new message on their website seems to still advertise themselves as a freelance porting company
 
Procheno said:
No, I understand the value they bring as an expert team porting AAA 3rd party games to Switch/Switch 2.

My argument was that I wouldn't understand the value of buying the company if they were to continue to work as a porting house for 3rd parties to bring games to PC, Xbox, & PS5 beyond their current contracts. Shiver's updated website doesn't really emphasize a shift in focus primarily to Nintendo platforms but rather "consoles" and "PC" still. So if they were to continue without change, then why? Why not make them work exclusively on ports to Nintendo after their contracts are up? Their new message on their website seems to still advertise themselves as a freelance porting company
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Reminder that "console (Nintendo Switch and other platforms) and PC development" does not mean "Nintendo Switch and Xbox and Playstation" it means Nintendo Switch and "The Successor to Nintendo Switch(tm)" (and in terms of ports, it means working with software sourced from other platforms).
 
MetalLord said:
do you think advance wars is a one time deal or nintendo will keep working with wayforward on the future ???, did any of the parts said anything about their current relation ?
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It’ll entirely depend on if WayForward has a project Nintendo likes or Nintendo wanting to use them for a project. Outside of that WayForward brings lots of games to Nintendo’s system so I don’t see Nintendo ending relations with them; even in an event where they stop doing so & focus on other platforms.
 
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MetalLord said:
do you think advance wars is a one time deal or nintendo will keep working with wayforward on the future ???, did any of the parts said anything about their current relation ?
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I'm hoping they do more with them in the future. Wayforward can be a pretty flexible studio and their biggest shortcoming is usually just "wasn't given the budget to make something as good as it should have been"

Not conclusive of anything, but about a year ago James Montagna (director of the Advance Wars remake) mentioned Kuru Kuru Kururin, Chibi Robo, Rhythm Heaven, and WarioWare as Nintendo IP he'd like to work on. So at least on Wayforward's end it does kinda sound like there's an openness to doing more with Nintendo
 
MetalLord said:
do you think advance wars is a one time deal or nintendo will keep working with wayforward on the future ???, did any of the parts said anything about their current relation ?
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We have no indication that Nintendo's relationship with WayForward has soured in any way AFAIK, so I would hope Nintendo is open to doing more stuff with them. But in regards to Advance Wars, it probably depends a lot on what Nintendo actually expected from the game sales-wise and if it managed to hit that target, as well as if WayForward wants to continue working on Advance Wars specifically or would rather mess around with a different Nintendo IP if given the chance.
 
BlackthornOrion said:
So at least on Wayforward's end it does kinda sound like there's an openness to doing more with Nintendo
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you would be hard-pressed to find any development house who wouldn't want a nice secure, prestigious paycheck and credit from working on a nintendo game, especially in the atrocious state this industry is currently in.
 
SirArthur said:
They still need to upgrade their website, its too simple. I guess since they are small it makes sense, but at least have a red background 😅
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I know this is probably joke-y but neither Retro nor Next Level have a hint of Red on their websites unless it's from character portraits/boxarts of Switch games. I think it makes sense for Retro and Next Level to have their own brand identity, they are considered talented teams and it'd be a disservice if the fans didn't know who they are, Shiver...not so much, but maybe they indeed want to create some smaller games on the side, so they're keeping that door open for Shiver to be recognizable.
 
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