goombaicebro
Luma
desktop-like/workstation-like specs are the best kind of tech specs
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Depends on how crazy devs get with the geometry. Pixel-sized triangles prefer the compute route. Triangles the size of multiple pixels (like 4 or 9 pixels) prefer to go the hardware route
God bless the PS4. Theres no reason why it shouldn't still be getting ports. Games still look great on that thing as they ever did.
MadMarvainy
Moblin
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half of PSN's monthly active users are still on PS4.
HW has a lot of mileage nowadays. for Nintendo, they were doing just fine with Switch.
To be honest, it's because of the Series S that has given people more hope of what 3rd-parties could achieve with Switch². Doesn't matter if the RTX 2050 has greater raw power than Switch² will ever have because the 2050 is restricted on VRAM and the PC environment. It's been noted (not confirmed) that Switch² is supposedly able to run The Matrix Awakens demo, whereas any PC using the 2050 cannot run it properly. Series S can run it using an internal resolution of 533p to 648p, upscaled to 1080p (which is handled using GPU resources rather than something dedicated like tensor cores). Complaints about the Series S from developers has mainly revolved around the 10GB RAM capacity and its split in speeds. Two things which Switch² isn't nearly affected by that with 12GB, plus unlikely to allocate as much RAM to the OS.
gonanzir
the baby
I saw that OnePlus used a frame interpolation technology on their Ace 3 Pro, demonstrating Genshin Impact at 120Hz.
But they call it "native," different from regular frame interpolation technology.
According to Geekerwan, they read the action data of the logic frame and interpolate frames before output, with the GPU directly outputting two frames. This benefits latency and might be somewhat similar to FSR3.
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Since comparisons with the 2050 came up again, I'm curious what people's thoughts are on what cutbacks they made to the Matrix demo to run on Switch 2? We know that the 2050 couldn't run it at all, no matter what settings they put it on. And we also know that even the PS5 and XBSX could only run it at 1080p/30 fps at best. And people who saw the demo said it ran "similar" to the other two (whatever that means). What's the best case scenario we can expect?
SwitchEmUp
Piranha Plant
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I mean the Switch 2 will already support FSR 3 by default. It's just up to how developers optimise the frame generation and the native framerate (make sure camera movements are smooth, should we leave the game running at 35fps or reduce settings to get it slightly higher?)
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
In fact, there can be many reasons for choosing 2025 as the release year, but in my opinion there are three decisive factors, the first is the evergreen properties of the switch so that Nintendo no longer need to face the dilemma of the wii after 2010, the second is the need for a very long time to prepare for the next generation of development, they are 100% from 2020 or so to enter into the next generation of software development, so in order to ensure that the first year of the software of the switch2 can be properly released they need to have such a long lead time to avoid the lack of games in the first year of the wiiu predicament, the third is the reduction in the cost of the hardware.
SwitchEmUp
Piranha Plant
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Likely having more RAM to work with than the Series S, as well as optimisations such as implementations of Mesh Shaders, Ray Reconstruction and DLSS
Better RT than the Series S, otherwise cut down settings.
The Oz version has a few things going for it, that the pc version doesn't.
1. It was likely running on a much more up to date, better optimized version of Unreal.
2. It was likely worked on by epic and Nvidia themselves.
So the hardware requirements of the pc version might not be very relevant.
Mesh shaders isn't going to help since nanite is compute focused
Someone actually made a 5.4 version of the demo for download and I gave it a go. And whoo boy, you need memory for that. It doesn't take much to be up to 100MB over the 3060ti vram limit. Keeping all settings except lumen at medium and dlss at balance kept me from going over vram limit.
For Series S and Drake, it's largely a ram issue. Thankfully, Drake won't have the problems SS has thanks to memory. So a reduction of texture quality and dlss performance mode (540p native) or dynamic (360p to 720p) would be sufficient
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
What is the difference between the two?
Compute-based is pure software. Just have a lot of resources (gpu cores) and you're good. Really good for lots of tiny geometry because of how flexible it is; you're limited by your programming ability.
With hardware mesh shaders, you're bound by how much rasterizing accelerators you can fit on your board. But that rasterizing hardware just does one thing. If you fit in the bounds, it's super fast jellyfish, but spill over, and game over
There's a point where geometry is fine enough for either to be equal, and it's actually a lot of polygons. Nanite just says "fuck it" and does both actually, but I wouldn't be shocked if external tech teams go compute for flexibility while Nintendo goes hardware
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
What are the advantages of switch2 when drawing high number of polygons?
Virtualized geometry is intended to be scalable regardless of whether you do compute or hardware; as long as you can pay the entry fee, you will be accommodated
Case in point, a gpu with fewer cores than Drake (and this is the heavier area in the game)
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
The 1650 is also a 4GB gpu, and as I recall the amount of polygon drawing correlates with both RAM and gpu specs.
Steve
Tingle
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That's crazy to see.
360p upscaled to low 1080 doesn't look that bad, on a portable system with a small screen it's not to shabby.
more impressive to consider that the Switch 2 will have 3x times the ram compared to the GTX 1650 and without proper optimisation which is crazier to think.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Not very comfortable, by performance mode it's already blurry and flickering to the naked eye, of course dlss might be slightly better.
Doesn't matter as much. Virtualize geometry and texturing are meant to use as much resources as you have. Your assets automatically lod itself to fit within allocation. The scene in the video is more bound by compute capabilities than vram. It's why even in ultra performance, the frame rate isn't improving that much
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
There are compression issues with the videos, my advice would be to test the upgrades yourself on your own computer, I'm a little concerned that these types of videos are misleading to the viewer, I'm having a hard time explaining that blurriness that both dlss and fsr upgrades get, but this soft resolution makes me itchy.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Ok, so my question is where is the computational power boundary of switch2? Or does it help at all with hardware-accelerated virtual geometry or Nanite?
not sure what you're asking. do you mean at what point does compute virtual geometry not work? hard to say where that is. the GTX 1650 in the video I posted was running at 3.33 TFLOPS with lower amount of cores and higher clock than what Drake will have. it ran it just fine at appropriate settings, so Drake shouldn't be far off
EDIT: this reminds me, before the Nvidia theft happened, I was thinking the switch successor would slot in-between the 1630 and 1650
Lancelot
Koopa
Switch 2 has the compute power it has, which are 3.4-4 TFLOPS on the Ampere architecture when not held back by handheld mode. Mesh shaders benefit from more compute power because it determines how hard the geometry budget can be pushed before it spills over, which this device hasn't exactly got in excess. This is why the above results maintained a range of performance no matter the settings or how much they tanked the resolution, the GPU is already having a hard time as it is.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
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Lancelot
Koopa
It does, it's from the Turing architecture aka 2000 series. Confusing I know.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Has this thread been researched before as to what graphical settings Alan Wake2 can run on switch2?
all of them can. just doesn't have the horse power to do a whole lot. the GTX 1650 video is gonna be the best representation of Drake performance, I expect.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
It looks bad enough that the video uses low graphics settings, yet still requires a performance mode upgrade to have a relatively stable 30fps.
Drake can run it and it'll probably come, which is what's important. especially for Remedy. performance will be better on Drake because of being a bespoke port
Lancelot
Koopa
Same settings as this video but high textures, basically. Having tensor cores will allow it to claw back some performance that using FSR doesn't as much since it's not hardware accelerated... And not much else. Well, being a bespoke port helps.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Well, maybe I'm demanding, but I'm convinced I won't be playing any 3rd party games other than MH on switch2 because it's just too low on the graphic settings as well as the resolution settings, and I can't stand to play 1080p in dlss performance mode on a big screen.
Even with high textures, the blurring that comes through the upgrade cancels out a lot of the look and feel.
Lancelot
Koopa
It will be rough for some in the end of the day because Switch 2 will have to cope with games made for devices with 3 times the compute power and much more memory bandwidth, as well as like 20x the power consumption. It does seem however that the average current gen experience will be leaps and bounds above what the original switch could offer for contemporary games, which is kinda what mobile technology can do for us at the moment.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
I don't care how much of an improvement it is over the switch, I care more about the actual experience, the fact is that due to a long history of using high end pc's and ps5's I've had a hard time accepting that this realistic style of gaming is running at lower quality graphic settings as well as resolutions, it could just be that I'm overestimating the things that the switch2 is capable of carrying.
bixente
Tingle
We know loads about the system. There's not much more to discover at this point, no?
Drake can run all of these games, just not at the combination of fidelity and IQ that you're looking for
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Yeah that's what I meant, I had a hunch about it before but this demo completely put me off playing 3rd party big games on switch2, I don't want to hurt my eyes lol
Danny
Koopa
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The truth is that every third party AAA game will still play better on PS5, PC, Xbox Series X than on the Switch 2. But Nintendo first party games will deliver a very solid experience on the other hand. So if you are bothered about worse performance on Switch 2 you have the option to buy those kind of games on other consoles or PC instead.
Nintendos hardware is meant for those who values the convenience of the form factor over graphical quality,
That probably would be true even if they had apple level hardware budgets, just the nature of mobile constraints.
That being said, diminishing returns are doing them more and more favours every gen.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
The convenience vs performance tradeoff would make me choose to buy MH games on the switch2, it's really my favorite game to play on a portable device, but for games with high fidelity I can't get over the amount of low setting graphics on the switch2, and if you're a long time pc gamer you know that while diminishing returns start early, just the presence of choppy framerates and blurriness on the screen isIt's very itchy.
That said, I look forward to seeing how far Nintendo's graphics engineers can increase the geometry and polygon count of the new Mario and Zelda using mesh shaders.
Mr Swine
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Yeah no, I’ll gladly take 540/480p upscaled to 1080p via DLSS 2.x instead of non native resolution even if 540p would scale better than 720p content.
Even then you need to factor in that the game won’t look as sharp/crisp as 1080p DLSS s there will be jaggies and overall worse detail displaying so little pixels
oldpuck
Koopa
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For those lucky enough to be able to afford two consoles, maintain multiple libraries, and play primarily on the TV, this makes perfect sense. I'm a pure handheld player, but I own a Steam Deck and when Outer Wilds finally hit Switch it mostly just reminded me to play it on my Deck.
The majority of gamers don't have that level of choice in where to play games. Nintendo fans have already had to decide that lower levels of fidelity were an acceptable sacrifice to either play the games they want (Nintendo exclusives) or the way they want (portably). You've already said you had a PC so powerful that you've never even bothered to turn DLSS on before. You're obviously not in that category.
navierStokes
Boo
It's good to come around to this realisation sooner than later, because in the end the platform that provides you the best experience is what matters, although for Switch users who have the console as their sole or main platform, it's an improvement all around.
I think what's always interesting from a tech enthusiast perspective is to see how far they can get with a constrained system and see how it relatively compares to something that's more powerful. In some games they'll cut-back more harshly to get it running as seen by some switch ports, but in other cases they're still able to deliver an experience that looks good in handheld, but ok on TV.
The latter is where I expect the Switch 2 to really improve extensively.
Ab
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Switch 3 will be out before switch 2
brainchild
Moblin
@ILikeFeet
I think you do a good job of highlighting the fundamental hardware/software differences between mesh shaders and Nanite for virtualized geometry (or just software based virtualized geometry in general), but just to make sure people don't assume they're interchangeable beyond that, I think it's important to point out that mesh shaders exist at a much lower level of abstraction for virtualized geometry than Nanite. That makes it very powerful, but in my opinion, not as accessible as Nanite for most developers.
I'd characterize Nanite as a full virtualized geometry system, and mesh shaders as a powerful tool in the rendering pipeline that can accelerate virtualized geometry. I'd recommend amateur devs to start with Nanite if they aren't good at optimizing with mesh shaders, and for more seasoned devs to use a mixture of both. It's like the difference between coding with a high level programming language and "coding to the metal".
I think you do a good job of highlighting the fundamental hardware/software differences between mesh shaders and Nanite for virtualized geometry (or just software based virtualized geometry in general), but just to make sure people don't assume they're interchangeable beyond that, I think it's important to point out that mesh shaders exist at a much lower level of abstraction for virtualized geometry than Nanite. That makes it very powerful, but in my opinion, not as accessible as Nanite for most developers.
I'd characterize Nanite as a full virtualized geometry system, and mesh shaders as a powerful tool in the rendering pipeline that can accelerate virtualized geometry. I'd recommend amateur devs to start with Nanite if they aren't good at optimizing with mesh shaders, and for more seasoned devs to use a mixture of both. It's like the difference between coding with a high level programming language and "coding to the metal".
For many years now, my two primary platforms are the Switch and PC -- the former for Nintendo games, multiplayer with family, and when portability/convenience is more important, and the latter for when I want graphical fidelity. I have a PS4 but I honestly haven't touched it in ages and it was primarily so I can play Kingdom Hearts 3 - which is now on Steam haha.
There are some titles I'm missing out on, but there's very little that isn't or will not be multiplatform and released on PC sooner or later, even if they release on PS5 first.
There are some titles I'm missing out on, but there's very little that isn't or will not be multiplatform and released on PC sooner or later, even if they release on PS5 first.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Well, that's what I'm curious about, and since the experience has improved so much, I do want to know just how close it is to the other consoles when it comes to running the big 9th gen games.
SiG
Chain Chomp
Nah, I still get my kicks playing an AAA game on a Nintendo console. This is coming from someone who has a relatively good high/mid-range PC and would probably still prefer to play it on Switch, and likely the successor as well.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
I hope I haven't made the mistake of being a picky pc gamer, I'll still buy the switch2 for my favorite games, it's just that I do realize that the hardware specs of the switch2 are completely customized for first party development, and only first party games will be able to reach the full potential of that hardware spec.
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