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StarTopic Nintendo General Discussion |ST3 Dec. 2021| Topical Threes

When Should Raccoon’s New Nintendo Direct Speculation Thread Launch?

  • Monday, Dec. 27 • 12pm EST

    Votes: 43 20.0%

  • Saturday, Jan. 1 • 12am EST

    Votes: 172 80.0%
  • Total voters
    215
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Emily said:
Speaking as someone who works in marketing research (food and beverage industry), you would be surprised how fast consumer behavior/habits can dramatically change in five years. Especially in the entertainment industry. I've worked in marketing research for over decade, and I feel like I'm still always learning new things about consumer behavior.

I don't believe physical games will ever go away. There will always be a market for physical games. Mainly because publishers want to maintain relationships with retailers, and not everyone can afford access to high-speed internet.

However...

GamePass and Sony's subscription service will change consumer behavior toward video games. Just like YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, Disney+ and HBO Max changed our behavior toward video content. Just like Spotify and Tidal changed people's attitude toward consuming music. Just like Kindle Unlimited and Comixology are changing our behavior toward buying physical books.

We don't realize it right now, but NSO is (slowly) changing consumer attitudes toward buying retro games. After NSO, I'm not sure if Nintendo's audience could ever go back to paying $5 for each NES game individually. If some people don't think NSO is worth $50 a year, how will Nintendo convince today's audience to pay $10 for each N64 game?

I think subscription services will be the future of indie games. You would be surprised how many people discover indie games because they found them on GamePass. Years ago, it was easier for an indie game like Mutant Mudds to find an audience. But today, most indie games fail to get noticed. There's too many indie games releasing each week, the market has become way too competitive.
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First: thanks for the insight, Emily! I appreciate your input here.

I tend to agree. I think Game Pass has already changed my video game playing/acquisition habits on Xbox. I still buy some games, but how I THINK about games has irrevocably changed.

I DO think NSO is the future of Nintendo's retro game availability, outside of "boutique-style" retro merchandise like the Game & Watch units. And I think I like it more than piecemeal purchases. I'm an old games enthusiast, so numerically speaking, I'm going to end up saving money in the long run haha. It does make me wonder: going forward, where do classic games and remakes/remasters cross paths, and how does that work? Does NSO stay limited to N64, and Gamecube games onward live in the realm of remasters? Do we end up in a world where Metroid Prime gets remastered in HD, but when Gamecube games eventually come to an old games subscription service, we get the original, non-remastered game on the service? With N64 being on NSO, are those games now barred from being remade/remastered? I'm not asking these expecting solid answers; we have no way of knowing how this is all going to work. It's just what I think about regarding this stuff.

On a complete tangent: I'd love to know the details of how consumer behaviour has changed in 5 years in an industry like food/beverage that has existed for like, centuries. Obviously I assume that info is probably NDA'd to heck and back, but it'd be interesting to see.
 
Derachi said:
On a complete tangent: I'd love to know the details of how consumer behaviour has changed in 5 years in an industry like food/beverage that has existed for like, centuries. Obviously I assume that info is probably NDA'd to heck and back, but it'd be interesting to see.
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I'm not in that field but it's pretty obvious how drastically that industry has changed since early 2020, though obviously for wildly different reasons than it normally would have evolved.
 
Sonic trailer at the game awards is nice. I still expect most of the announcements to be bleh, but that one certainly won't be.
 
0
Derachi said:
I DO think NSO is the future of Nintendo's retro game availability, outside of "boutique-style" retro merchandise like the Game & Watch units. And I think I like it more than piecemeal purchases. I'm an old games enthusiast, so numerically speaking, I'm going to end up saving money in the long run haha. It does make me wonder: going forward, where do classic games and remakes/remasters cross paths, and how does that work? Does NSO stay limited to N64, and Gamecube games onward live in the realm of remasters? Do we end up in a world where Metroid Prime gets remastered in HD, but when Gamecube games eventually come to an old games subscription service, we get the original, non-remastered game on the service? With N64 being on NSO, are those games now barred from being remade/remastered? I'm not asking these expecting solid answers; we have no way of knowing how this is all going to work. It's just what I think about regarding this stuff.
Click to expand...

I'll be honest with you.

I would absolutely pay $15 a month ($180/year) for a Nintendo GamePass service that offered access to:
  • First party retail titles like... Mario Kart 8, Splatoon 3, Breath of the Wild, Fire Emblem, Smash Bros, Clubhouse Games, ARMS, etc, etc.
  • Select third party retail titles like...Dragon Quest 11, Bioshock, Skyrim, Doom Eternal, Crash Team Racing, Super Monkey Ball
  • Retro games (NES, SNES, N64, GB, GBA, Genesis)
  • Indie games (Stardew Valley, Shovel Knight, Golf Story, Hollow Knight)
  • Smaller eShop titles like Snipperclips, Good Job!, The Stretchers, Boxboy + Girl, Cadence of Hyrule
  • Access to all DLC for all Nintendo first party titles.
Paying for a subscription service is no different than a rental service. In the 1990s, you would pay $5 at Blockbuster to rent one game for 5 days. Paying $15 a month to have access to hundreds of games - retail games, indie games, retro games - seems like a fair proposition to me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here's an obscure reference: Saoirse Ronan was on the Graham Norton show a few years ago and they played an audio recording of her as a little girl winning a radio call-in contest, which she responded to with a piercingly squeally "oh my gaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhd," has anyone seen that? Anyone know what I'm referring to?

Well that's how I'm responding to the Sonic 2 poster.

my boi got his biplane 🥲
 
Mr_No_U said:
Saying this where I work is more like dropping a nuke
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Embrace the abyss, revel in chaos. What I'm saying, is

giphy.gif


Emily said:
Speaking as someone who works in marketing research (food and beverage industry), you would be surprised how fast consumer behavior/habits can dramatically change in five years. Especially in the entertainment industry. I've worked in marketing research for over decade, and I feel like I'm still always learning new things about consumer behavior.

I don't believe physical games will ever go away. There will always be a market for physical games. Mainly because publishers want to maintain relationships with retailers, and not everyone can afford access to high-speed internet.

However...

GamePass and Sony's subscription service will change consumer behavior toward video games. Just like YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, Disney+ and HBO Max changed our behavior toward video content. Just like Spotify and Tidal changed people's attitude toward consuming music. Just like Kindle Unlimited and Comixology are changing our behavior toward buying physical books.

We don't realize it right now, but NSO is (slowly) changing consumer attitudes toward buying retro games. After NSO, I'm not sure if Nintendo's audience could ever go back to paying $5 for each NES game individually. If some people don't think NSO is worth $50 a year, how will Nintendo convince today's audience to pay $10 for each N64 game?

I think subscription services will be the future of indie games. You would be surprised how many people discover indie games because they found them on GamePass. Years ago, it was easier for an indie game like Mutant Mudds to find an audience. But today, most indie games fail to get noticed. There's too many indie games releasing each week, the market has become way too competitive.
Click to expand...
Derachi said:
First: thanks for the insight, Emily! I appreciate your input here.

I tend to agree. I think Game Pass has already changed my video game playing/acquisition habits on Xbox. I still buy some games, but how I THINK about games has irrevocably changed.

I DO think NSO is the future of Nintendo's retro game availability, outside of "boutique-style" retro merchandise like the Game & Watch units. And I think I like it more than piecemeal purchases. I'm an old games enthusiast, so numerically speaking, I'm going to end up saving money in the long run haha. It does make me wonder: going forward, where do classic games and remakes/remasters cross paths, and how does that work? Does NSO stay limited to N64, and Gamecube games onward live in the realm of remasters? Do we end up in a world where Metroid Prime gets remastered in HD, but when Gamecube games eventually come to an old games subscription service, we get the original, non-remastered game on the service? With N64 being on NSO, are those games now barred from being remade/remastered? I'm not asking these expecting solid answers; we have no way of knowing how this is all going to work. It's just what I think about regarding this stuff.

On a complete tangent: I'd love to know the details of how consumer behaviour has changed in 5 years in an industry like food/beverage that has existed for like, centuries. Obviously I assume that info is probably NDA'd to heck and back, but it'd be interesting to see.
Click to expand...

I know my dad won't remember, but I still remember when he made some off the cuff remark around 2003 or 2004 that he thought before long games wouldn't even need an offline console, but that I could simply be streaming them online direct to the TV. Mind you, I had just gotten a Gamecube (first home console after harassing my parents endlessly), was around 12, and we exclusively had tube TVs in the house, so I didn't exactly have the foresight to see how this could have worked, but it is fascinating to see how very much on the money he was.

Having even been on the fringe of Gamepass and seeing what it offers, I do feel a sense of FOMO for the amount of games I miss out on (as if I had any additional spare time for them all), which makes it tough seeing these growing pains Nintendo has in establishing it's own subscription model that is far more accessible to me when they can see the external data of how to implement their own services. (Then again, this is the same Nintendo who walked feet first into the same pitfalls of HD development with the Wii U despite being a generation late to the party).

I feel though that there has to be some benefits to offering options despite the cost of porting/remasters/remakes, in addition to emulation. While I wouldn't deny for instance that OoT3DS and MM3DS had a number of QoL additions and would be a great asset to port to Switch, I'm also sure there are purists who would rather the option to play the original entries from N64 (and a smaller but not ignorable subsection of those who would also play both just because). I just hope that while remasters are done for some of the truly deserving games on Gamecube and onwards, I also wouldn't want it to mean that less successful games are left behind entirely. If gamecube games only are remastered, I know that won't bode well for Doshin, or Custom Robo, or F-Zero getting a second shot at life if they didn't do well enough the first time around.

Anyways I hope my word vomit rant actually makes sense because I do find the discourse surrounding consumer habits of the subscription model fascinating andwant to see it continue.

chocolate_supra said:
Go ahead and try that in this thread.
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Been dying on this hill for many moons now, and I'll be glad to do it again 😈

Raccoon said:
poptarts are a donut
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a-little-bit-spicy-black-guy.gif


Derachi said:
have not eaten a poptart in over a decade

will not be changing this in the foreseeable future
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Same. Pillsbury toaster strudels are better anyways and I just had them for breakfast this morning

Emily said:
I'll be honest with you.

I would absolutely pay $15 a month ($180/year) for a Nintendo GamePass service that offered access to:
  • First party retail titles like... Mario Kart 8, Splatoon 3, Breath of the Wild, Fire Emblem, Clubhouse Games, ARMS, etc, etc
  • Select third party retail titles like...Dragon Quest 11, Bioshock, Skyrim, Doom Eternal, Crash Team Racing, Super Monkey Ball
  • Retro games (NES, SNES, N64, GB, GBA, Genesis)
  • Indie games (Stardew Valley, Shovel Knight, Golf Story)
  • Smaller eShop titles like Snipperclips, Good Job!, The Stretchers, Boxboy + Girl
  • Access to all DLC for Nintendo first party titles.
Paying for a subscription service is no different than a rental service. In the 1990s, you would pay $5 at Blockbuster to rent a game for 5 days. Paying $15 a month to have access to hundreds of games - retail games, indie games, retro games - seems like a fair proposition to me.
Click to expand...
Even with the conversion to $20CAD I'd still even be willing to bump this up to $25 a month/$300 annual, because that would seem like too good a deal (curiously...is there another tier for Gamecube games being included in the retro category while we're in fantasy land? 😋)
 
I suspect that, for the medium term, the sums of money Nintendo make from their purchase-focused model (rather than a primarily rental based model) would be far higher than the revenues they could get through a subscription.

The obvious point is: does a rental model capture a wider audience in order to make up for the loss of money from higher spending customers in the current model?
 
Emily said:
I'll be honest with you.

I would absolutely pay $15 a month ($180/year) for a Nintendo GamePass service that offered access to:
  • First party retail titles like... Mario Kart 8, Splatoon 3, Breath of the Wild, Fire Emblem, Smash Bros, Clubhouse Games, ARMS, etc, etc.
  • Select third party retail titles like...Dragon Quest 11, Bioshock, Skyrim, Doom Eternal, Crash Team Racing, Super Monkey Ball
  • Retro games (NES, SNES, N64, GB, GBA, Genesis)
  • Indie games (Stardew Valley, Shovel Knight, Golf Story, Hollow Knight)
  • Smaller eShop titles like Snipperclips, Good Job!, The Stretchers, Boxboy + Girl, Cadence of Hyrule
  • Access to all DLC for all Nintendo first party titles.
Paying for a subscription service is no different than a rental service. In the 1990s, you would pay $5 at Blockbuster to rent a game for 5 days. Paying $15 a month to have access to hundreds of games - retail games, indie games, retro games - seems like a fair proposition to me.
Click to expand...
All that for $15 a month sounds like a steal! I'd probably pay $20 or $25 a month for all that and still feel like it was a good value. I don't think it'd happen though. Nintendo values their big first party retail games too much to let them be accessible for that low of a cost.

I could see them adding their smaller first party games to a service like that, though. Games like ARMS, Clubhouse Games, Link's Awakening Remake, Astral Chain, etc. Games that maybe sold in the 1-5 million unit range.
 
0
they should stop messing about and get PC Engine/Turbografx games for NSO

also they should put CD-based games on there, like for Sega CD and (if they put PC-E on there) PC Engine CD. Maybe those games would be individual downloads to account for the giant filesize
 
Oh snap the new YuGiOh game is out, anyone play it yet? Any good?
 
0
I don't know if it's "pro-consumer" or "anti-consumer", but i definitely like when i get to enjoy a service like Gamepass with hundreds of games for such a low price. It's a contract between me and a company. If i think the price is reasonable enough, i'll buy it. If they think it's going to make a profit, then they'll provide the service. Frankly, it doesn't matter if they do it because they want me to feel good or healthy or whatever. If it's a contract and both interests are met, then it's good. Just my opinion...
 
It is time to admit I suck at Dead Cells. There, I said it. I can not beat 2BC no matter what build I try. Cut it close a couple of times, at least. Game is still fun, but at this point I just have to accept that I am incredibly unlikely to ever complete it.
 
Raccoon said:
reminder that jason knew for years
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When you have a story that massive and with that amount of ramifications, you have to do due diligence and make sure you have all sources correct and have plenty of evidence. If he had put the story out too early in a weaker state, then Activision could have destroyed him and Bloomberg (or Kotaku if he started the investigation there).
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
My brother once said that most complaints about "anti-consumer" practices are actually about "anti-consumption" because they boil down to "why isn't this company letting me give them money for something?"
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when I think of Joy-Con Drift, online being a paid service without big improvements in network play etc it’s more about „why isn’t this company doing more to sustain the quality I paid for?“

But I get your point. It does get kinda difficult though when emotions/nostalgia are involved. For example, it’s not that I would’ve paid more if 3D All-Stars was a better game — it’s $60 either way. People wanted to play those games because there are no other options to buy them on Switch. Still, they‘ve been made with the lowest effort possible.
 
MusicProposition said:
when I think of Joy-Con Drift, online being a paid service without big improvements in network play etc it’s more about „why isn’t this company doing more to sustain the quality I paid for?“

But I get your point. It does get kinda difficult though when emotions/nostalgia are involved. For example, it’s not that I would’ve paid more if 3D All-Stars was a better game — it’s $60 either way. People wanted to play those games because there are no other options to buy them on Switch. Still, they‘ve been made with the lowest effort possible.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, I don't think I need to put in a disclaimer every single time that I do in fact think that Nintendo sometimes makes anti-consumer moves and sometimes does dumb stuff.
 
0
BozPaggs said:
Shadow Realm?
I'm sending you to literally anywhere in England.
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Reminds me of the difference in 19th century literature.

English lit: shadows, castles, oh no we've created a monster in our own image

American lit: see that shadow over there? that's the devil and oops, he's here for you
 
MisterSpo said:
I suspect that, for the medium term, the sums of money Nintendo make from their purchase-focused model (rather than a primarily rental based model) would be far higher than the revenues they could get through a subscription.

The obvious point is: does a rental model capture a wider audience in order to make up for the loss of money from higher spending customers in the current model?
Click to expand...

One thing to consider:

Nintendo is not immune to commercial flops in the retail business. Many Nintendo-published games have bombed. It's easy to forget this because Switch has become so successful. We've deluded ourselves into believing that Nintendo makes money on everything they release.

To name a few Nintendo bombs: Ever Oasis, Codename S.T.E.A.M, The Wonderful 101, Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, Star Fox Zero, Excitebots, Sushi Striker, Eternal Darkness, Steel Diver, Wii Music, Sing Party, Chibi Robo Zip Lash, Amiibo Festival, Odama, Giftpia, Geist, Doshin the Giant, Nintendogs + Cats, Disaster Day of Crisis, Devil's Third.

A more ambitious, premium subscription service (like GamePass) would help bring attention to games that didn't do well in retail stores.
 
Emily said:
One thing to consider:

Nintendo is not immune to commercial flops in the retail business. Many Nintendo-published games have bombed. It's easy to forget this because Switch has been so successful. We've deluded ourselves into believing that Nintendo makes money on everything they release.

To name a few Nintendo bombs: Ever Oasis, Codename S.T.E.A.M, The Wonderful 101, Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, Star Fox Zero, Excitebots, Sushi Striker, Eternal Darkness, Steel Diver, Wii Music, Sing Party, Chibi Robo Zip Lash, Amiibo Festival, Odama, Giftpia, Geist, Doshin the Giant, Nintendogs + Cats, Disaster Day of Crisis, Devil's Third.

A more ambitious subscription service would help bring attention to games that didn't do well in retail stores.
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Damn. How much were they expecting from Wii Music. It sold over 2 million copies last I saw (maybe I’m wrong)


Sushi Strikers being the only switch releases is pretty good tho for the Switch era tho.
 
0
I probably shouldn't have lumped Wii Music with the rest of those games.

"Underperformed" is a much better word for that game. Compared to the big numbers that Wii Play, Wii Sports, and Wii Fit did.
 
0
I'm all in favor for subscription services... especially because it helps developing countries. I'll pay 200$/Year for NintendoFlix with first party games day on date (hell it could be one month later I wouldn't mind)
 
Emily said:
One thing to consider:

Nintendo is not immune to commercial flops in the retail business. Many Nintendo-published games have bombed. It's easy to forget this because Switch has become so successful. We've deluded ourselves into believing that Nintendo makes money on everything they release.

To name a few Nintendo bombs: Ever Oasis, Codename S.T.E.A.M, The Wonderful 101, Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, Star Fox Zero, Excitebots, Sushi Striker, Eternal Darkness, Steel Diver, Wii Music, Sing Party, Chibi Robo Zip Lash, Amiibo Festival, Odama, Giftpia, Geist, Doshin the Giant, Nintendogs + Cats, Disaster Day of Crisis, Devil's Third.

A more ambitious, premium subscription service (like GamePass) would help bring attention to games that didn't do well in retail stores.
Click to expand...

That's fine but would it help those games enough to offset how much it would eat into the success of their successful games?

As I said the other day; Animal Crossing probably generated more revenue than Game Pass did last year.

Mario 8 Kart Deluxe is probably generating $500m+ in revenue a year. That's equivalent to almost 3m subscribers at $180/Year.
 
Emily said:
Speaking as someone who works in marketing research (food and beverage industry), you would be surprised how fast consumer behavior/habits can dramatically change in five years. Especially in the entertainment industry. I've worked in marketing research for over decade, and I feel like I'm still always learning new things about consumer behavior.

I don't believe physical games will ever go away. There will always be a market for physical games. Mainly because publishers want to maintain relationships with retailers, and not everyone can afford access to high-speed internet.

However...

GamePass and Sony's subscription service will change consumer behavior toward video games. Just like YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, Disney+ and HBO Max changed our behavior toward video content. Just like Spotify and Tidal changed people's attitude toward consuming music. Just like Kindle Unlimited and Comixology are changing our behavior toward buying physical books.

We don't realize it right now, but NSO is (slowly) changing consumer attitudes toward buying retro games. After NSO, I'm not sure if Nintendo's audience could ever go back to paying $5 for each NES game individually. If some people don't think NSO is worth $50 a year, how will Nintendo convince today's audience to pay $10 for each N64 game?

I think subscription services will be the future of indie games. You would be surprised how many people discover indie games because they found them on GamePass. Years ago, it was easier for an indie game like Mutant Mudds to find an audience. But today, most indie games fail to get noticed. There's too many indie games releasing each week, the market has become way too competitive.
Click to expand...
Let’s hope Hamster decides to make their ACA/NeoGeo games into a service because I would rather spend on that than $8 a pop for those games (This should be part of the expansion pass, at least the Nintendo games). Probably would make more too.
 
0
MissingNo. said:
Bleakest shit I've read all week.
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Nothing like a pandemic to compound everything I hate about this festering virulent shit hole that has the audacity to call itself "Great"
reconceptualize said:
Reminds me of the difference in 19th century literature.

English lit: shadows, castles, oh no we've created a monster in our own image

American lit: see that shadow over there? that's the devil and oops, he's here for you
Click to expand...
Painfully accurate 😂
chocolate_supra said:
If you have the power to send people places, what would it take to get me, my Switch, and my car to New Zealand?
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Eternal devotion to The Abyss
 
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