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StarTopic Nintendo First Party Software Development |ST| Nintendo Party Superstars

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OctoSplattack said:
I don't remember: I know Nate collaborated the DK rumours, but was it just that he knows of a DK project, or that he knows of a DK project at EPD Tokyo? If the latter, then that's a lock for Good-Feel probably. But if it's the former, then we could have another F-Zero situation where the DK game was really Mario vs. Donkey Kong, leaving things open for EPD to be the ones to be doing the Peach game.
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He said EPD Tokyo. I posted it on this page. Erm well the last page lol.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
LM2 getting a LM3-level facelift would be pretty bonkers but I'm not really sure the game needs nor "deserves" it. I was honestly surprised that they're bothering with it at all but I guess the sales of the original justified it for them.
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If we think of the Switch as a kind of "Nintendo Ultimate", it's quite logical being able to play all the Luigi's Mansion games on it, as is the case with Pikmin. I think we'll also end up getting the original episode in crossgen at the same time as the 4 is announced for Halloween 2025.
 
OctoSplattack said:
I don't remember: I know Nate collaborated the DK rumours, but was it just that he knows of a DK project, or that he knows of a DK project at EPD Tokyo? If the latter, then that's a lock for Good-Feel probably. But if it's the former, then we could have another F-Zero situation where the DK game was really Mario vs. Donkey Kong, leaving things open for EPD to be the ones to be doing the Peach game.
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I've read the links @Dark Cloud posted earlier in here, last year it was just "Nintendo's doing a DK game after the one by Vicarious Vision was cancelled", in the September Direct thread this year he did say it's EPD Tokyo doing DK.
 
@MondoMega created an updated EPD engine table. The games with question marks in the corner of their game icon means that it's speculated to use the engine it's placed in.
Nintendo_Engines.png
 
F ZERO 99 being the first non-Mario franchise title to use the 3D Mario game engine means reality is aligning back to how things should be.
 
I was planning to tweak it a bit more before posting it here; at least denoting Jump Rope Challenge and Pikmin 4 as using Unity and UE4 respectively; but I guess it’s fine as-is 😛
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
LM2 getting a LM3-level facelift would be pretty bonkers but I'm not really sure the game needs nor "deserves" it. I was honestly surprised that they're bothering with it at all but I guess the sales of the original justified it for them.
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One thing that could probably make it look better in the eyes of the fans would be to scrap the mission system altogether and change the mansion each time an objective would be done. But there comes the problem of how to integrate the E.Gadd cutscenes info into the gameplay without doing lenghty/multiple gameplay flow stoppers. Anyways, NLG was pretty open to criticism when tackling 3 so I'm sure they have concerns to mind with a remaster of this one too.
 
ILikeFeet said:
maybe we'll see a bigger budget NST game come drake. just like the old days
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I don't see that happening. 'Bigger budget' these days is a whole different kettle of fish to big budget in 2001.

They're leading on small scale projects that supplements Nintendo's line up and supporting EPD development. I'd be more interested in seeing them continue on their current trajectory and given the chance to make something new in the Mario vs DK series. Disappointed that's a remake after NST's contributions to Bowser's Fury, but I guess at least assets will exist which would make a new game easier to make.
 
naobinokami said:
Wave Race will become real again any minute now.
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Super Nintendo Switch EXTREME Sports by NST
  • Motocross
  • Jet Ski
  • Snowboarding
MisterSpo said:
I don't see that happening. 'Bigger budget' these days is a whole different kettle of fish to big budget in 2001.

They're leading on small scale projects that supplements Nintendo's line up and supporting EPD development. I'd be more interested in seeing them continue on their current trajectory and given the chance to make something new in the Mario vs DK series. Disappointed that's a remake after NST's contributions to Bowser's Fury, but I guess at least assets will exist which would make a new game easier to make.
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unlike a lot of companies, Nintendo still runs the gamut of budgets. something bigger than Mario vs Donkey Kong while being smaller than Bowser's Fury is still possible for them.
 
Blue Monty said:
How do we know Mario vs DK engine ?
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It's small, but there's a question mark in the corner to indicate it's speculation.

NST does the MvDK games and have largely worked in Action Library recently (their support work on EPD8 games and now F-Zero 99), so right now it's the likeliest option.
 
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boodream said:
It's also possible that some 3DS ports could be realized by a dedicated porting team, in the same way as we saw NERD take care of the ports of Pikmin 1 and 2.

I agree with you about the plausibility of the EPD Tokyo possibility, but I want to be wrong and for it to be Good Feel, because I want the Donkey Kong rumor to be true.
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Nintendo's PTD/EPD "Porting Technology Development Team" handled Pikmin 1+2 and Super Mario Galaxy. NTD and NERD helped develop some of the technology and tools. Both are ports from the Wii version. NERD was the lead in the GameCube emulator technology used for Super Mario Sunshine.

Supreme Bum 01 said:
I don't think you would bother NLG with LM2HD unless it was a true big boy remake. They are probably consulting on it with Grezzo taking the lead. Princess Peach can not possibly be Good Feel because I want a new Wario Land and a port of Shake Dinension.
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My first reaction to the game's existence, is that another group is porting the game. I could see NLG working on bigger projects for next hardware already: including LM4.

TheMoon said:
I don't see how making F-Zero 99 would give them any kind of experience that is transferable to making a new F-Zero or even a GX remaster
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Echoing what I said before, but the expertise and budget of F-Zero 99 doesn't easily springboard to anything other than another cool 99 style game. Probably a little more ambitious, "but still baby steps people".
 
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Regarding Princess Peach Showtime, just remember that Good Feel’s main office hasn’t released a full retail game since March of 2019. That would reflect a five year gap which potentially makes sense given that Showtime would be their first true 3D title. Also, the gameplay looks a bit more on the easy side along the lines of their past games. I really have no doubt it is them as NLG almost certainly working on a Luigi’s Mansion 4 for 2025 release and I have full conviction that EPD Tokyo has a new 2D DK game for Switch 2.
 
Superstarxalien said:
we haven't gotten a new 3d mario game since 2017. are you going to question the dk game taking as long
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Yeah, a 3D Mario game taking 8 years is massively more reasonable than a 2D DK game taking that long.

The next 3D Mario should be expected to sell 25m copies and sell tons of hardware.

The next DK should be expected to sell 6m copies and not really sell much hardware.

Unless "development" here means like 3 people prototyping (but then how would it leak?)
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Putting the probability that EPD Tokyo has been making a 2D platformer DK since 2017 (with the game itself not releasing until 2025 at the earliest) at near 0.
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Why would it be 2025 at the earliest? I don’t believe EPD Tokyo started on a new DK game in 2017, but we know they were hiring for a 2D action game in 2020. If so, my guess is that game is more or less done and being saved for Switch 2 and other announcements (movie, theme park, etc.).

In regard to the next 3D Mario game, it’s very clear that NST’s involvement with Bowser’s Fury was greatly overstated and most of the design sat with with EPD Tokyo. That being said, there is no way that game took 3.5 to 4 years to make (even with COVID), which means the next 3D Mario game has likely been in development for some time.

I wouldn’t be shocked if we saw both the next 3D Mario and their 2D DK game released next year. I think it’s all but a certainty that they will follow the Switch playbook and have multiple heavy hitters in year one for the Switch 2.
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Putting the probability that EPD Tokyo has been making a 2D platformer DK since 2017 (with the game itself not releasing until 2025 at the earliest) at near 0.
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EPD tokyo started recruiting people for a 2D action game in 2020 while EPD Kyoto did the same thing in 2019.
It isn't crazy to imagine that since Wonder is coming out this year, the Tokyo project might be next year (or 2025) and it could be a DK related game.
All speculations but I'd say probabilities are higher than 0.
If any project has been in the works since 2017 at Tokyo it's probably a 3D Mario game while the 2D project has been brewing at the earliest in 2019.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Putting the probability that EPD Tokyo has been making a 2D platformer DK since 2017 (with the game itself not releasing until 2025 at the earliest) at near 0.
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Here we go again. The DK game wasn’t in recruitment until 3 years later. 3 years later. The game wasn’t in development in 2017. This + Covid + DK park in 2024 + Mario Wonder releasing this holiday, anyone can see there was a high chance of them holding it out until 2024.
 
I could see EPDK if it's partially/primarily outsourced to an external developer, like Pikmin or Mario Kart, or if it's a smaller title in the vein of NES Remix or Captain Toad. EPD Tokyo doing two AAA platformers mostly internally seems optimistic even for them
 
Apopheniac said:
I could see EPDK if it's partially/primarily outsourced to an external developer, like Pikmin or Mario Kart, or if it's a smaller title in the vein of NES Remix or Captain Toad. EPD Tokyo doing two AAA platformers mostly internally seems optimistic even for them
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3D Mario has 1Up Studio co-developing and we might even see NST assisting, too. The Tokyo office is there to also take advantage of the outsourcing scene in the city, and it's not outlandish that there's more money and resources moving that way. That could take any form though, including finding another external studio for support.

I'm not sure on the veracity of different sources (and haven't checked out what Nate said on this one), but I don't think it's outlandish Nintendo would want their Tokyo studio handling more projects or that DK becomes an internal title again. Tropical Freeze is on the road to 5 million sold on Switch and that's a bare bones port.

Equally, as for the discussion at large about development schedules, we should know by now that some projects simply take a long time. Stuff like Pikmin 4 and Switch Sports had a really protracted development.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Putting the probability that EPD Tokyo has been making a 2D platformer DK since 2017 (with the game itself not releasing until 2025 at the earliest) at near 0.
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Superstarxalien said:
we haven't gotten a new 3d mario game since 2017. are you going to question the dk game taking as long
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why we do always have to pretend SM3DW + BF doesn't exist 🤔

EPD Tokyo still made that together with NST. There's no "nothing since 2017".

There's also the Captain Toad port + new content. Stop ignoring ports with new content, please. They're still projects in the pipeline made by people in those studios.
 
Don't we already know that the actual EPD 8 team is much smaller than the Odyssey credits would suggest? I thought there was this staff picture floating around that put them at a <100 headcount but that might be outdated now.
 
MisterSpo said:
3D Mario has 1Up Studio co-developing and we might even see NST assisting, too.
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That's true, but those studios don't have a ton of staff and have other stuff going on, hence the mostly. I would also expect the next 3D Mario to be a more intensive project than Odyssey was by virtue of presumably being a showcase for new hardware, which may be why their post-Odyssey output has been more limited

EPD8 2D definitely has the capacity to do a big new 3D Mario and maybe a side game with those studios assisting, since that's how they did the ones from the last decade. I don't think you could stretch that capacity to include a second major project on top of that without introducing another studio
 
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You guys think they are scrapping the odyssey mechanic (usually new system means new mechanic) OR building on it (there is a lot more potential with odyssey, maybe not worth moving on yet)?
 
Tyrien said:
You guys think they are scrapping the odyssey mechanic (usually new system means new mechanic) OR building on it (there is a lot more potential with odyssey, maybe not worth moving on yet)?
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at this point probably new mechanic. wouldn't surprise me if they kept the hat movement options, but doubt capturing makes it.

feels like the window for an iterative sequel has passed
 
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Apopheniac said:
I could see EPDK if it's partially/primarily outsourced to an external developer, like Pikmin or Mario Kart, or if it's a smaller title in the vein of NES Remix or Captain Toad. EPD Tokyo doing two AAA platformers mostly internally seems optimistic even for them
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Every game is going to have some degree of outsourcing. Every single one! What makes the game an EPD game is more if they are the lead developer on the project. Some games have 30 EPD developers (Pikmin 4, Miitomo), while others have 100 (Splatoon 2/3, ARMS, Animal Crossing). Tears of the Kingdom featured the biggest pool of EPD staff (200). The rest is always going to come from other parts of Nintendo (MC, SRD, 1UP, NST, NERD, Monolith) and outside companies. If DK had a 30 man EPD staff spearheading the game and the rest of the team came from outside companies like Pikmin 4, it would still be and feel like an EPD game.

Dardan Sandiego said:
Don't we already know that the actual EPD 8 team is much smaller than the Odyssey credits would suggest? I thought there was this staff picture floating around that put them at a <100 headcount but that might be outdated now.
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We don't know the size of personnel in the Tokyo offices right now but ultimately that is regardless of the team's resources given how many contractors they can hire in Tokyo, their internal and subsidiary support, and outside companies can be used to leverage the team. We know the company has pushed for growth hiring more college recruits and more mid-career transplanters -- but that is not a public specific number we can calculate. Ideally in entertaining the idea of 3D Mario and DK happening at the same time; you can argue if Tokyo was just 100 people -- you'd have 60 be the core of the next 3D Mario and 40 of the next DK. Not sure how the math could exactly work best -- but it could.
 
EAD Ninja said:
Every game is going to have some degree of outsourcing. Every single one! What makes the game an EPD game is more if they are the lead developer on the project. Some games have 30 EPD developers (Pikmin 4, Miitomo), while others have 100 (Splatoon 2/3, ARMS, Animal Crossing). Tears of the Kingdom featured the biggest pool of EPD staff (200). The rest of is always going to come from other parts of Nintendo (MC, SRD, 1UP, NST, NERD, Monolith) and outside companies. If DK had a 30 man EPD staff spearheading the game and the rest of the team came from outside companies like Pikmin 4, it would still be and feel like an EPD game.
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ok
 
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Adulfzen said:
EPD tokyo started recruiting people for a 2D action game in 2020 while EPD Kyoto did the same thing in 2019.
It isn't crazy to imagine that since Wonder is coming out this year, the Tokyo project might be next year (or 2025) and it could be a DK related game.
All speculations but I'd say probabilities are higher than 0.
If any project has been in the works since 2017 at Tokyo it's probably a 3D Mario game while the 2D project has been brewing at the earliest in 2019.
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Dark Cloud said:
Here we go again. The DK game wasn’t in recruitment until 3 years later. 3 years later. The game wasn’t in development in 2017. This + Covid + DK park in 2024 + Mario Wonder releasing this holiday, anyone can see there was a high chance of them holding it out until 2024.
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TheMoon said:
why we do always have to pretend SM3DW + BF doesn't exist 🤔

EPD Tokyo still made that together with NST. There's no "nothing since 2017".

There's also the Captain Toad port + new content. Stop ignoring ports with new content, please. They're still projects in the pipeline made by people in those studios.
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Did none of you click the link I was responding to.

Update: Highly-respected Donkey Kong fansite DK Vine has chimed in on our report, and adds the following information:

Development of the new Donkey Kong game purportedly began around 2017 or 2018, when Nintendo decided to bring Donkey Kong back internally for the first time since Nintendo EAD's Donkey Kong Jungle Beat... although Jungle Beat was more of a stopgap than a permanent status quo.

I've been led to believe that this is a new EPD team that has formed from other teams specifically for the purpose of creating Donkey Kong games.
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This is just obviously false. They're not going to spend 8 years on a 2D platformer that isn't Mario. Especially not a new EPD team completely dedicated to Donkey Kong instead of a floater team.

I think the constant rumors of DK vs. other 2D platformers (Yoshi, Wario Land, etc) is just because DK Vine really aggressively writes fanfic.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Did none of you click the link I was responding to.



This is just obviously false. They're not going to spend 8 years on a 2D platformer that isn't Mario. Especially not a new EPD team completely dedicated to Donkey Kong instead of a floater team.

I think the constant rumors of DK vs. other 2D platformers (Yoshi, Wario Land, etc) is just because DK Vine really aggressively writes fanfic.
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7 years (2017-2024) is actually 6 years when you factor in COVID. There's also to consider a team of similar size to Odyssey (with some new recruits) tackling two games at the same time (3D Mario + 2D DK). You can then also factor in additional stuff, like any dev hell. So like... not necessarily?
 
Tyrien said:
You guys think they are scrapping the odyssey mechanic (usually new system means new mechanic) OR building on it (there is a lot more potential with odyssey, maybe not worth moving on yet)?
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rather than going with the hat mechanic I wouldn't be surprised if they go with a similar approach to Bowser Fury where you can store powerups and use them on the fly to tackle challenges in different ways, especially if they move towards a more open world - ish level design.
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Did none of you click the link I was responding to.



This is just obviously false. They're not going to spend 8 years on a 2D platformer that isn't Mario. Especially not a new EPD team completely dedicated to Donkey Kong instead of a floater team.

I think the constant rumors of DK vs. other 2D platformers (Yoshi, Wario Land, etc) is just because DK Vine really aggressively writes fanfic.
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I mean as long as we agree that this DK rumor in general has gotten way too much attention considering here has never been anything to back it up then I'm good lol.
 
entut1 said:
7 years (2017-2024) is actually 6 years when you factor in COVID. There's also to consider a team of similar size to Odyssey (with some new recruits) tackling two games at the same time (3D Mario + 2D DK). You can then also factor in additional stuff, like any dev hell. So like... not necessarily?
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Nintendo is not going to take resources away from 3D Mario to make Donkey Kong.

The specific rumor I posted was just fanfic created by DK Vine.

EPD Tokyo's 2D platformer could be Donkey Kong.

Or another Mario game.

Or Wario Land.

Or Yoshi.

Or something else entirely.

Or cancelled.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Did none of you click the link I was responding to.



This is just obviously false. They're not going to spend 8 years on a 2D platformer that isn't Mario. Especially not a new EPD team completely dedicated to Donkey Kong instead of a floater team.

I think the constant rumors of DK vs. other 2D platformers (Yoshi, Wario Land, etc) is just because DK Vine really aggressively writes fanfic.
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it could be true, nintendo's development time is notoriously slow this gen. 2018-2023 is only 5 years, and then subtract a year for covid
 
Octavian said:
modern dev times are too slow in general
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Just no. Making games is complicated and difficult and increasingly so with higher fidelity and more complex systems. You calling modern dev times slow in an age where we're regularly still reading about grueling crunch and burnout is outrageous.
 
TheMoon said:
Just no. Making games is complicated and difficult and increasingly so with higher fidelity and more complex systems. You calling modern dev times slow in an age where we're regularly still reading about grueling crunch and burnout is outrageous.
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crunch and burnout is awful and I don't want that at all, good working conditions and unions should be an industry standard.

at the same time, id be happy if devs stuck with 6th/7th gen graphics were able to create more games faster, more new ideas, as a result. game design hasn't evolved much technically past the capabilities of that generation. the push for graphical fidelity above all else has hurt this industry creatively for the past 15 years

it won't happen though since the standard is the standard now
 
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Octavian said:
it could be true, nintendo's development time is notoriously slow this gen. 2018-2023 is only 5 years, and then subtract a year for covid
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Well, it's not coming out in 2023

Or likely 2024 if it exists because it probably would have been announced with all the other Mario movie adjacent announcements of the last two Directs.

And we were talking about 2017.

So that's 8 years and not 5.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Well, it's not coming out in 2023

Or likely 2024 if it exists because it probably would have been announced with all the other Mario movie adjacent announcements of the last two Directs.

And we were talking about 2017.

So that's 8 years and not 5.
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well the dk vine rumor said 2017 or 2018, I'm assuming 2018 and even that it might just be conceptual stuff/prototyping with full development not until 2019

i'm also guessing a 2024 release, anything longer would be even more ridiculous. But 2018-2024 is 6 years, with loss of time from covid that'd be really long but not unfeasible.

when you get into the 7-8 year territory though no 2d platformer should take that long, what are you doing at that point. then either the rumor is false or it got cancelled/rebooted
 
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TheMoon said:
I mean as long as we agree that this DK rumor in general has gotten way too much attention considering here has never been anything to back it up then I'm good lol.
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God if Mario can be as big as Zelda. That'd be insane.

Edit: lol I replied to the wrong post. My b.
 
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