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Discussion What was the original source of the 2D Donkey Kong rumor?

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Mekanos said:
It was Tanabe who mandated the Kremlings not return.

Again, if we're only getting a new DK game every half decade (and that's generous at the current rate), it's not unreasonable to be disappointed that we are waiting forever to see classic characters return. This constant start-and-stop with the DK series and characters is tiring.

Mario 3D World has five playable characters with a variety of different attributes and incredibly varied level design, in addition to over half a dozen power-ups, and it all flows together perfectly. I don't expect Retro to bring back literally every Animal Buddy, but they're a core part of the classic trilogy and could expand on the gameplay even moreso.
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In place of having the Animal Buddies as power ups, maybe they could have just had them as major level gimmicks. Like instead of the rocket barrel, have Squawks. If the idea is that the Kongs were power ups, instead of just relegating the animal buddies to just Rambi, then make them an actual event.
 
Mekanos said:
It was Tanabe who mandated the Kremlings not return.

Again, if we're only getting a new DK game every half decade (and that's generous at the current rate), it's not unreasonable to be disappointed that we are waiting forever to see classic characters return. This constant start-and-stop with the DK series and characters is tiring.

Mario 3D World has five playable characters with a variety of different attributes and incredibly varied level design, in addition to over half a dozen power-ups, and it all flows together perfectly. I don't expect Retro to bring back literally every Animal Buddy, but they're a core part of the classic trilogy and could expand on the gameplay even moreso.
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We probably have different ideas of what consists as core gameplay or not.

Because again, DK64 barely featured the animal buddies. Even Rare thought they weren't that core to the series.

I much prefer newer games to just expand on DK's moveset and add more playable characters a la Funky that can pull of most of DK's moves, but with their own gimmicks. If animal buddies MUST return, I prefer they be used like Squawks, as being more of an item that complements gameplay rather than overtake it.

(Also, I hated Squawks' gameplay. Never want to flap that bird again.)
 
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KCannon said:
We probably have different ideas of what consists as core gameplay or not.

Because again, DK64 barely featured the animal buddies. Even Rare thought they weren't that core to the series.

I much prefer newer games to just expand on DK's moveset and add more playable characters a la Funky. If animal buddies MUST return, i refer they be used like Squawks, as being more of an assist that complements gameplay rather than overtake it.
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We see as early as DKC2 that the Animal buddies as pure power ups wasn't working out very well. The fact you could lose them essentially would have made certain levels impossible to design with them in mind, so you'd have the Animal Buddy barrel that turned you into them.

And in DKC3 the animal buddies that were designed for that game in particular were more like challenges than power ups. Perry and Nibbla come to mind.

(I rather liked Squawks and the flapping. Better than the rocket barrel to me.)
 
KCannon said:
We probably have different ideas of what consists as core gameplay or not.

Because again, DK64 barely featured the animal buddies. Even Rare thought they weren't that core to the series.

I much prefer newer games to just expand on DK's moveset and add more playable characters a la Funky that can pull of most of DK's moves, but with their own gimmicks. If animal buddies MUST return, I prefer they be used like Squawks, as being more of an item that complements gameplay rather than overtake it.

(Also, I hated Squawks' gameplay. Never want to flap that bird again.)
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Well I don’t want a game like DK64 lol. When I say DKC I mean DKC. And I don’t think the gameplay has to come back 1:1 for the buddies either, or that they have to be in every game (Rambi isn’t in DKC3 and I love that game), but I do think they could be implemented in fresh and fun ways.
 
As much as I like the animal buddies from the Rare games, I actually wasn’t a fan of Squawks’ gameplay either. I think part of it was that he would fall down unless you were constantly pressing A, I’d rather he just stayed flying without always having to do that.
 
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KCannon said:
We probably have different ideas of what consists as core gameplay or not.

Because again, DK64 barely featured the animal buddies. Even Rare thought they weren't that core to the series.

I much prefer newer games to just expand on DK's moveset and add more playable characters a la Funky that can pull of most of DK's moves, but with their own gimmicks. If animal buddies MUST return, I prefer they be used like Squawks, as being more of an item that complements gameplay rather than overtake it.

(Also, I hated Squawks' gameplay. Never want to flap that bird again.)
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I think with DK64 having five different playable Kongs, all with different movesets, there just wasn't really a gameplay reason to add more animal buddies. I really liked the Rambi and Enguarde segments though; I used to always replay the Enguarde minigame. His 3D model looks really cute.
 
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Dante Kong said:
Squitter > every other animal buddy. Let's be honest here.
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As a kid I had an idea for a Squitter spin-off where the bad guys is Arich from DKC3 lol.

I still think it's a good idea! Squitter's gameplay is nuanced enough that he could carry a campaign by himself almost.
 
I just wanted to add a couple of more info drops that I heard on the Kongversation over the last few years to give some more credence to what Hyle has said.

Regarding the Smash ballot, he mentioned that Nintendo of Japan was shocked by the overwhelming support K. Rool had. So much so, that apparently, K. Rool is now viewed as an integral part of the DK franchise, and probably will be the recurring villain from now on. Apparently Retro Studios even wanted to add K. Rool as a secret boss in the Tropical Freeze port on Switch, but was vetoed by Sakurai as he wanted K. Rool's big return to be in Smash - which was the right call. Retro then pivoted to making Funky Kong the selling point of Tropical Freeze on Switch. Here's a writeup of that from the Kremling Kampaigner: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/

Also, Hyle mentioned that 2018 was "Phase 1" of bringing back DK as a juggernaut IP. In 2018 we received DKCTF on Switch, Mario + Rabbids: Donkey Kong Adventure DLC (which is half the length of the base game), and King K. Rool in Smash. I'm assuming Phase 1 was designed to give DK a solid presence on Switch while they went to work on his new game.

Phase 2 is where it gets interesting. Phase 2 is likely kicking off with the Mario movie, the launch of Super Nintendo World in Japan in 2024, and hopefully a game. I wouldn't be surprised if either the new game releases around the time of the park in 2024 or if a remastered DKCR comes out around that time since the park is based on the aesthetics of DKCR. Also, it's very conspicuous that the last 3 Nintendo systems for NSO: N64, Game Boy, and GBA have a grand total of 0 DK games. Not even DK 94, which is debatably more of a Mario game. I feel like they're holding out on these games (DK64, Diddy Kong Racing, DKL 1-3, and King of Swing) until they're ready to push DK. Look how much they've been pushing Metroid after a long period of silence.

If you're wondering like I was why it took them so long to start "Phase 2", Hyle did mention on the Kongversation that Nintendo has been frustrated that it's taken this long to get DK back on track and "it wasn't supposed to take this long" were his exact words. A lot of that was probably due to development slowing down from the pandemic and trying to figure out the future direction of DK while making his series unique from Mario. Just some more insights as well as some hope for things to come. :)
 
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Not going to lie, this stuff about the Smash Ballot sounds like fanfic. Nintendo of Japan was shocked? Who was? Miyamoto? Sakurai went out of his way to stop Retro from adding a secret K Rool boss into a game he wasn't involved with? If anything, K Rool coming back in a proper DK game first and foremost would be a cause for celebration. How does this person have such deep contacts within Nintendo that they can get an understanding of what the heads of Nintendo of Japan, the staff of Retro Studios, and Sakurai were thinking?
 
KremlingKuthroat said:
I just wanted to add a couple of more info drops that I heard on the Kongversation over the last few years to give some more credence to what Hyle has said.

Regarding the Smash ballot, he mentioned that Nintendo of Japan was shocked by the overwhelming support K. Rool had. So much so, that apparently, K. Rool is now viewed as an integral part of the DK franchise, and probably will be the recurring villain from now on. Apparently Retro Studios even wanted to add K. Rool as a secret boss in the Tropical Freeze port on Switch, but was vetoed by Sakurai as he wanted K. Rool's big return to be in Smash - which was the right call. Retro then pivoted to making Funky Kong the selling point of Tropical Freeze on Switch. Here's a writeup of that from the Kremling Kampaigner: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/
:)
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I kinda have to question that whole thing with Sakurai. He's not even a Nintendo employee, so it's weird he would have that much pull over an actual Nintendo studio based in the US. Tanabe himself was against using K. Rool and he's the one who works with Retro, so I'm not sure how Retro was planning to revive K. Rool when their Japanese contact already shot down the idea beforehand.

For starters, there's nothing in Tropical Freeze's files that indicate K. Rool was planned at some point. And I'm not sure how Sakurai would guess Retro was planning on using K. Rool as a bonus boss to veto it in the first place.

It sounds like a very biased fanfic with lots of fishy details.
 
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KremlingKuthroat said:
I just wanted to add a couple of more info drops that I heard on the Kongversation over the last few years to give some more credence to what Hyle has said.

Regarding the Smash ballot, he mentioned that Nintendo of Japan was shocked by the overwhelming support K. Rool had. So much so, that apparently, K. Rool is now viewed as an integral part of the DK franchise, and probably will be the recurring villain from now on. Apparently Retro Studios even wanted to add K. Rool as a secret boss in the Tropical Freeze port on Switch, but was vetoed by Sakurai as he wanted K. Rool's big return to be in Smash - which was the right call. Retro then pivoted to making Funky Kong the selling point of Tropical Freeze on Switch. Here's a writeup of that from the Kremling Kampaigner: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/

Also, Hyle mentioned that 2018 was "Phase 1" of bringing back DK as a juggernaut IP. In 2018 we received DKCTF on Switch, Mario + Rabbids: Donkey Kong Adventure DLC (which is half the length of the base game), and King K. Rool in Smash. I'm assuming Phase 1 was designed to give DK a solid presence on Switch while they went to work on his new game.

Phase 2 is where it gets interesting. Phase 2 is likely kicking off with the Mario movie, the launch of Super Nintendo World in Japan in 2024, and hopefully a game. I wouldn't be surprised if either the new game releases around the time of the park in 2024 or if a remastered DKCR comes out around that time since the park is based on the aesthetics of DKCR. Also, it's very conspicuous that the last 3 Nintendo systems for NSO: N64, Game Boy, and GBA have a grand total of 0 DK games. Not even DK 94, which is debatably more of a Mario game. I feel like they're holding out on these games (DK64, Diddy Kong Racing, DKL 1-3, and King of Swing) until they're ready to push DK. Look how much they've been pushing Metroid after a long period of silence.

If you're wondering like I was why it took them so long to start "Phase 2", Hyle did mention on the Kongversation that Nintendo has been frustrated that it's taken this long to get DK back on track and "it wasn't supposed to take this long" were his exact words. A lot of that was probably due to development slowing down from the pandemic and trying to figure out the future direction of DK while making his series unique from Mario. Just some more insights as well as some hope for things to come. :)
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GB/GBA NSO has barely been out for a month, and DK64 and DKR both have rights issues due to Jetpac and Microsoft/Rare owned characters. They’ll all likely release sooner or later. I don’t think there is anything conspicuous about it all.
 
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Plus, K. Rool is such an integral part of the DK franchise that he has yet to appear in any other game besides Smash, even though Diddy, Dixie, Funky, Pauline, etc all make recurring appearances in Golf, Kart, Tennis, the Mario movie, etc.

Like, I have nothing against K. Rool, but this feels like fans making the character look like a much bigger deal than he is.
 
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KCannon said:
Plus, K. Rool is such an integral part of the DK franchise that he has yet to appear in any other game besides Smash, even though Diddy, Dixie, Funky, Pauline, etc all make recurring appearances in Golf, Kart, Tennis, the Mario movie, etc.

Like, I have nothing against K. Rool, but this feels like fans making the character look like a much bigger deal than he is.
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It's a chicken or egg situation. K. Rool was a big deal in the 90s but didn't become a big deal again until he was revived in Smash. K. Rool is now the number 3 DK character after Diddy and maybe number 4 depending on how well received Cranky is in the Mario movie and upcoming DK movie.

The truth is Smash Ultimate has sold 30M copies and K. Rool is one of the most popular characters in the game. Although Dixie and Funky have a greater legacy, K. Rool is more popular atm although I suppose you could make an argument for Funky due to Mario Kart Wii
 
The Tropical Freeze Switch port stuff is by far the most dubious of the big rumors in the DK fandom. While the posts have since been edited to clarifify that Sakurai wasn't "calling dibs" and that they can't claim Smash was the actual cause for the supposed planned boss fight being denied, it still sounds like sketchy fan fiction from where i'm sitting; especially since it was most widely spread by BKupa, perhaps the biggest figure in the K. Rool for Smash campaign pre-Ultimate.

KCannon said:
Plus, K. Rool is such an integral part of the DK franchise that he has yet to appear in any other game besides Smash, even though Diddy, Dixie, Funky, Pauline, etc all make recurring appearances in Golf, Kart, Tennis, the Mario movie, etc.
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I wouldn't make the call on the movie so soon; the Kremlings and K. Rool are the exact thing you would set up and/or save for a dedicated DK film. Mario already has their villains and the Kongs themselves are depicted as a bit of an antagonistic force at first in the film too clearly; no reason to introduce them so soon and muddy that segment of the film.
 
KremlingKuthroat said:
It's a chicken or egg situation. K. Rool was a big deal in the 90s but didn't become a big deal again until he was revived in Smash. K. Rool is now the number 3 DK character after Diddy and maybe number 4 depending on how well received Cranky is in the Mario movie and upcoming DK movie.

The truth is Smash Ultimate has sold 30M copies and K. Rool is one of the most popular characters in the game. Although Dixie and Funky have a greater legacy, K. Rool is more popular atm although I suppose you could make an argument for Funky due to Mario Kart Wii
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Dixie and Pauline (considered a DK character too) are in MK Tour, which has been downloaded 200 million times.
 
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MondoMega said:
The Tropical Freeze Switch port stuff is by far the most dubious of the big rumors in the DK fandom. While the posts have since been edited to clarifify that Sakurai wasn't "calling dibs" and that they can't claim Smash was the actual cause for the supposed planned boss fight being denied, it still sounds like sketchy fan fiction from where i'm sitting; especially since it was most widely spread by BKupa, perhaps the biggest figure in the K. Rool for Smash campaign pre-Ultimate.
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Didn't BKupa get some personal acknowledgement for his efforts in that campaign from NoA?
 
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MondoMega said:
I wouldn't make the call on the movie so soon; the Kremlings and K. Rool are the exact thing you would set up and/or save for a dedicated DK film. Mario already has their villains and the Kongs themselves are depicted as a bit of an antagonistic force at first in the film too clearly.
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But again, if K. Rool was this much a big deal, I would've expected more appearances from him since his 2018 re-debut.

DK's Nintendo World section also has no signs of Kremlings. And that's supposed to be a big deal for Nintendo's plans with the franchise.

Heck, Strikers Battle League doesn't even have the Kritter goalies. What am I supposed to think?
 
VolcanicDynamo said:
...that the Mario brand is a lot more locked down since the earlier Strikers games, and that Boom-Boom fits the current vision of the brand more?
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The current vision of the brand does not stop DK and friends from making cameos in Mario spinoffs (Odyssey even had multiple Kongs being namedropped, including K. Rool himself). Hell, K. Rool was there in a Super Sluggers before vanishing for the next decade.
 
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I hope Kremlings at least appear in costumes in the DKC area of Universal. Or somewhere in the coaster ride since we don't know what the inside will look like.
 
The only reservation I have about King K. Rool's future appearances in games/movies is the fact that the theme park is based on Returns and rumors are that Tiki Tong is featured as part of the ride. It'll be interesting to see how much brand synergy the theme parks, movies and games share. K. Rool is a much more marketable villain and you could get a much more interesting performance and actor to play a King K. Rool role than Tiki Tong. Then again, it all depends on how close Nintendo want DK's world to represent the theme park, which if you look at the golden temple structure in the park and movie, they're almost an exact match.

@KCannon Another thing that I forgot to mention is that DK seperated as its own merchandising brand from the Mario brand in late 2017 to early 2018. The theory is that they're going to be a lot more careful about mixing DK's world with Mario's world, hence why the playable characters in Mario spinoffs have dropped to mainly just DK as a mainstay and occasionally Diddy in the Switch gen. Mario Kart Tour is an exception because it has more characters than you can count and Dixie and Funky are padding to a bloated roster. Look at the size of this roster lol: https://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_drivers_in_Mario_Kart_Tour
 
I mean, the whole "let's not mix Mario and DK's brands" idea kinda falls apart when DK is set to appear in the Mario movie in a significant role, with a bunch of his supporting cast being there as well.

DK brand has always been a mess whenever its association with the Mario brand comes up. At least Wario consistently keeps his world's strangeness to his games.
 
The mention of Retro trying to get K. Rool into the Switch game is also something I've doubted, despite hearing Bkupa/Kremling kampaigner and Hyle stating it since 2018. It could have happened, but we have no concrete proof to make that call. I could see some scenario where the newer DK Brand team (that was mentioned by Davide Soliani during a 2018 interview about the Mario Rabbids dlc) steps in and tells Retro to hold off on K. Rool and kremlings, because there is some new specific way they are to be portrayed in the DK games, that we would theoretically see in the next DK game. That also has no way of being confirmed, though, so its kind of moot.
KCannon said:
Thecurrent vision of the brand does not stop DK and friends from making cameos in Mario spinoffs. Hell, K. Rool was there in a Super Sluggers before vanishing for the next decade.
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The DK appearances in Mario spinoffs are a lot stricter than the Wii era, to be fair. DK is a mainstay in the spinoffs, but we seldom see Diddy anymore, and Dixie, Funky and DK Jr. in Tour seem like some once in a blue moon appearance. Also worth mentioning that they don't have any alternate costumes, when plenty of out-there characters have very unique costumes. Cook shyguy, kangaroo Yoshi, Luigi in lederhosen with a big sausage, but not a single outfit for the kongs. Some have speculated that DK's brand team is holding this back to make DK's extended seem more like guest appearances rather than Mario regulars. Even in the Nintendo Direct where they reveal the Mario movie's cast, the official quote from Miyamoto's translator is, "Even though this is a Mario Movie, Donkey Kong will be making an appearance". They seem to be starting to put more effort in reminding people that these are separate series that share a world, rather than one being a spinoff of the other.
Mer.Saloon said:
I hope Kremlings at least appear in costumes in the DKC area of Universal. Or somewhere in the coaster ride since we don't know what the inside will look like.
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There's a video on YouTube covering the DK ride in Universal Orlando that covers the blueprints of the ride in great detail, including animatronics for Cranky and Squawks that talk/interact with people in line, and props for Tiki Tong and Mole Miner Max from DKCR. So I think the Kremlings will miss out on the debut of the park, but maybe we can at least get some merch of them or something on the optimistic side.
 
Dante Kong said:
The mention of Retro trying to get K. Rool into the Switch game is also something I've doubted, despite hearing Bkupa/Kremling kampaigner and Hyle stating it since 2018. It could have happened, but we have no concrete proof to make that call. I could see some scenario where the newer DK Brand team (that was mentioned by Davide Soliani during a 2018 interview about the Mario Rabbids dlc) steps in and tells Retro to hold off on K. Rool and kremlings, because there is some new specific way they are to be portrayed in the DK games, that we would theoretically see in the next DK game. That also has no way of being confirmed, though, so its kind of moot.

The DK appearances in Mario spinoffs are a lot stricter than the Wii era, to be fair. DK is a mainstay in the spinoffs, but we seldom see Diddy anymore, and Dixie, Funky and DK Jr. in Tour seem like some once in a blue moon appearance. Also worth mentioning that they don't have any alternate costumes, when plenty of out-there characters have very unique costumes. Cook shyguy, kangaroo Yoshi, Luigi in lederhosen with a big sausage, but not a single outfit for the kongs. Some have speculated that DK's brand team is holding this back to make DK's extended seem more like guest appearances rather than Mario regulars. Even in the Nintendo Direct where they reveal the Mario movie's cast, the official quote from Miyamoto's translator is, "Even though this is a Mario Movie, Donkey Kong will be making an appearance". They seem to be starting to put more effort in reminding people that these are separate series that share a world, rather than one being a spinoff of the other.
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Don't forget how in "Mario and Rabbids" they specify DK is in a completely different universe from Mario and co.
Dante Kong said:
There's a video on YouTube covering the DK ride in Universal Orlando that covers the blueprints of the ride in great detail, including animatronics for Cranky and Squawks that talk/interact with people in line, and props for Tiki Tong and Mole Miner Max from DKCR. So I think the Kremlings will miss out on the debut of the park, but maybe we can at least get some merch of them or something on the optimistic side.
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Oh bum bugger. Another consequence of timing then. Oh well, at least we get to hear Cranky talk. But bloody Tiki-Tong? They could have used Lord Frederick.

How much do we know about the land overall from a blueprint side? I've been curious if DK will have the same number of Power-Up band minigames as mario has.
 
The rumors we discussed the last few days offer a clear picture of what has allegedly happened with Vicarious Vision, while their details on the current game developed by EPD are sketchy. And it makes sense! A former VV employer might be the leaker, but everybody working on DK in Japan keeps their mouth shut.

This K. Rool rumor, on the other hand... Suddenly we have a very detailed overview of how NOA, NCL, Retro, and even Sakurai feel about K. Rool. We know nothing of Retro's canceled project, but following this rumor we know for certain that they wanted to have K. Rool in Tropical Freeze Switch. Honestly, it's hard to believe.

Dante Kong said:
I could see some scenario where the newer DK Brand team (that was mentioned by Davide Soliani during a 2018 interview about the Mario Rabbids dlc)
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Ah, about this. I checked the credits of DK Adventure:

Character Supervision Kanae Dohta Ryuusuke Yoshida Tsuyoshi Watanabe
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It's weird -- they are the same people credited in the main games. But the Ubisoft guys definitely mentioned a DK Team (here's the producer, but I also remember Soliani saying something similar).

Maybe it's technically a different team, and the same three people are both the Mario IP Team and the DK IP Team. It seems too convoluted though.

Is there a recent Mario spin-off without DK characters? We could compare the credits.
 
FYI: here's a video going over everything regarding the DK area of SNW. Don't watch if you don't want to be spoiled:


Regarding the DK and Mario IP teams, it makes sense. DK will be getting a big merchandise push and if you've seen the sheer amount of merch in Super Nintendo World for Mario, it probably would take a large team to create and manage the brand and merchandise in preparation for the launch of the DK expansion in 2024.
 
Gingerbread Man said:
The rumors we discussed the last few days offer a clear picture of what has allegedly happened with Vicarious Vision, while their details on the current game developed by EPD are sketchy. And it makes sense! A former VV employer might be the leaker, but everybody working on DK in Japan keeps their mouth shut.

This K. Rool rumor, on the other hand... Suddenly we have a very detailed overview of how NOA, NCL, Retro, and even Sakurai feel about K. Rool. We know nothing of Retro's canceled project, but following this rumor we know for certain that they wanted to have K. Rool in Tropical Freeze Switch. Honestly, it's hard to believe.


Ah, about this. I checked the credits of DK Adventure:



It's weird -- they are the same people credited in the main games. But the Ubisoft guys definitely mentioned a DK Team (here's the producer, but I also remember Soliani saying something similar).

Maybe it's technically a different team, and the same three people are both the Mario IP Team and the DK IP Team. It seems too convoluted though.

Is there a recent Mario spin-off without DK characters? We could compare the credits.
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I can only think of Sparks of Hope. And that has Rabbid Kong as a cameo, I have no idea how they classify him. There's also Mario Maker 2 and Mario Run but idk I'd those are considered main games or spinoffs.
 
MondoMega said:
I datamined the Universal apps myself awhile back for an answer (this post predated the Hollywood app being updated with Super Nintendo World content but the text is copied directly from Japan's app for now) :)
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Huh, so it seems like DK will have Power-Up Band Minigames, but not as many as Mario. But then it seems like the park focuses on a sort of collectathon aspect. Oh that is fascinating.

Also, we now know that the two areas have distinct names as part of Super Nintendo World. Mario Land and (obviously, but still) Donkey Kong Country. So for anyone who thinks the Super Nintendo World branding won't exist for anything not attached to Mario there you go.
 
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KCannon said:
Also, I sincerely believe the Mario movie will have little impact on whatever the new DK game will end up being.

There's this annoying tendency that people believe Nintendo will make their games closer to their movies, even though stuff like Pokemon and Kirby never really followed their animated adaptations that closely (Pokemon Yellow aside).

Mario especially because a lot of the movie's environments are just past game locations anyway.
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We're in uncharted waters though. We're in an era where Nintendo's core business is now not only games, but games + movies/TV (visual content) + theme parks + merchandise. Nintendo just acquired a film studio and renamed them Nintendo Pictures. There have always been Nintendo adaptations before but they've been more outsourced such as the Super Show and the Donkey Kong Country TV show. This is a very hands on approach. So much so that this is essentially Miyamoto's new job, being the brand ambassador and liaison between Nintendo and Universal as a quality assurance measurement to make sure the 1993 Mario movie never happens again. Also, Chris Meledandri the CEO of Illumination is now a member of Nintendo's board of directors making him the first non-Japanese board member. The movies and parks may end up being so successful that they may even be Nintendo's core business in 10 years so it's difficult to say, but with all these things in mind, I don't see how there wouldn't be some brand synergy between the parks/movies/games.

Btw, Pokemon's completely different because its more like a 2nd Party IP that's controlled by the Pokemon Company and not Nintendo itself so Pokemon will always be more of a wild card versus wholly owned Nintendo properties.
 
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KremlingKuthroat said:
We're in uncharted waters though. We're in an era where Nintendo's core business is now not only games, but games + movies/TV (visual content) + theme parks + merchandise. Nintendo just acquired a film studio and renamed them Nintendo Pictures. There have always been Nintendo adaptations before but they've been more outsourced such as the Super Show and the Donkey Kong Country TV show. This is a very hands on approach. So much so that this is essentially Miyamoto's new job, being the brand ambassador and liaison between Nintendo and Universal as a quality assurance measurement to make sure the 1993 Mario movie never happens again. Also, Chris Meledandri the CEO of Illumination is now a member of Nintendo's board of directors making him the first non-Japanese board member. The movies and parks may end up being so successful that they may even be Nintendo's core business in 10 years so it's difficult to say, but with all these things in mind, I don't see how there wouldn't be some brand synergy between the parks/movies/games.

Btw, Pokemon's completely different because its more like a 2nd Party IP that's controlled by the Pokemon Company and not Nintendo itself so Pokemon will always be more of a wild card versus wholly owned Nintendo properties.
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I think you overestimate the "uncharted waters" analogy though.

What works in a movie may not work for a game or a park and vice-versa. After all, the budget you would dedicate for a movie will invariably focus in certain aspects while other media budgets will go to another. It's not like Chris Pratt and Seth Rogen will be Mario and DK's voices from now on, since they require a ton of dough. You'd also need a lot of cash to replicate the Illumination designs and animations in a game environment.

Nintendo itself has obtained unprecedented success with Odyssey, which looks very different from your usual Mario aesthestic, which is what the movie is currently focusing on. Same for Mario's Nintendo World section.
 
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KCannon said:
I think you overestimate the "uncharted waters" analogy though.

What works in a movie may not work for a game or a park and vice-versa. After all, the budget you would dedicate for a movie will invariably focus in certain aspects while other media budgets will go to another. It's not like Chris Pratt and Seth Rogen will be Mario and DK's voices from now on, since they require a ton of dough.

Nintendo itself has obtained unprecedented success with Odyssey, which looks very different from your usual Mario aesthestic, which is what the movie is currently focusing on.
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I said some brand synergy, not complete brand synergy. I don't expect the VAs to be a part of the next Mario or DK game. Just elements to carry over between entries. I expect this to be more of the case for DK versus Mario since Mario's world is defined, and DK's isn't at all since it's switched hands between so many developers over the years. For example, Donkey Kong's world may look a lot closer to this movie's interpretation than the Retro or Rare games. Emperor Cranky may be an ongoing thing now. There was a mention of "King Donkey Kong" in the latest Mario Kart trailer. I think the DK redesign will be the new look of DK for the foreseeable future. I don't think Miyamoto would've made this big of a deal about it when no other character's design was mentioned at all, especially in a segment where he was wearing a DK shirt and acknowledged the 40th anniversary.
 
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Some interesting new updates in the DK discord (Kong Island) about the cancelled DK game btw
 
I've seen the new info shared on Discord. My god, I wish Vicarious Vision Donkey Kong didn't get canned. The concept is just too good.
I'm really hoping that one-day, the key art will be shared from the project.

@LiamRobertson You could even try your luck and ask any ex-VV staff, if they are willing to anonymously share some of the content with DYKG. I would normally research it myself, as I know a few people at two different Nintendo subsidiaries. But I don't have any contacts with ex-VV unfortunately.
 
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Is there a reason the DK stuff can’t be shared? This Discord sounds more secure than the Pentagon.
 
To clarify, I'm not part of any discord, but from what I was told about VVs DK mostly matches with what has already been mentioned in this thread and the DK Vine E3 forum. Details about the Banana peel grinding, open 3d gameplay, playable Pauline all got listed here but some extra stuff that I haven't seen mentioned in either thread yet;
-Diddy was present but was riding DK like in Returns and TF
-Rambi was in the game
-Pauline sections had her doing stealth investigations of a factory that was harming the Kongs ecosystem, separate from DKs gameplay. The way it was described reminded me of MJ and Miles Morales parts of Spiderman on PS4, tbh
-there was a general desire to include the kremlings but the game got axed before they could be implimented
And just to clarify, I have never personally seen any game assets or screenshots myself but the party that let me know about this game is trustworthy in my eyes, I know it boils down to "Source: dude trust me" at the moment so I can't blame anyone for being very hesitant about this stuff lol.
 
From what I've heard by all accounts the VV game wasn't very far along. They were likely in the prototyping stage when the game got cancelled.
 
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KremlingKuthroat said:
I just wanted to add a couple of more info drops that I heard on the Kongversation over the last few years to give some more credence to what Hyle has said.

Regarding the Smash ballot, he mentioned that Nintendo of Japan was shocked by the overwhelming support K. Rool had. So much so, that apparently, K. Rool is now viewed as an integral part of the DK franchise, and probably will be the recurring villain from now on. Apparently Retro Studios even wanted to add K. Rool as a secret boss in the Tropical Freeze port on Switch, but was vetoed by Sakurai as he wanted K. Rool's big return to be in Smash - which was the right call. Retro then pivoted to making Funky Kong the selling point of Tropical Freeze on Switch. Here's a writeup of that from the Kremling Kampaigner: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/

Also, Hyle mentioned that 2018 was "Phase 1" of bringing back DK as a juggernaut IP. In 2018 we received DKCTF on Switch, Mario + Rabbids: Donkey Kong Adventure DLC (which is half the length of the base game), and King K. Rool in Smash. I'm assuming Phase 1 was designed to give DK a solid presence on Switch while they went to work on his new game.

Phase 2 is where it gets interesting. Phase 2 is likely kicking off with the Mario movie, the launch of Super Nintendo World in Japan in 2024, and hopefully a game. I wouldn't be surprised if either the new game releases around the time of the park in 2024 or if a remastered DKCR comes out around that time since the park is based on the aesthetics of DKCR. Also, it's very conspicuous that the last 3 Nintendo systems for NSO: N64, Game Boy, and GBA have a grand total of 0 DK games. Not even DK 94, which is debatably more of a Mario game. I feel like they're holding out on these games (DK64, Diddy Kong Racing, DKL 1-3, and King of Swing) until they're ready to push DK. Look how much they've been pushing Metroid after a long period of silence.

If you're wondering like I was why it took them so long to start "Phase 2", Hyle did mention on the Kongversation that Nintendo has been frustrated that it's taken this long to get DK back on track and "it wasn't supposed to take this long" were his exact words. A lot of that was probably due to development slowing down from the pandemic and trying to figure out the future direction of DK while making his series unique from Mario. Just some more insights as well as some hope for things to come. :)
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sorry but I find it hard to believe that this Hyle dude knows so many internal secrets
from sakurais personal thoughts, to miyamotos desires, to internal marketing plans,to any random game pitch by any random developer

and everything happens to be based on donkey kong... sure...
 
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
 
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TheSpearGuy said:
sorry but I find it hard to believe that this Hyle dude knows so many internal secrets
from sakurais personal thoughts, to miyamotos desires, to internal marketing plans,to any random game pitch by any random developer

and everything happens to be based on donkey kong... sure...
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This is a gross mischaracterization of what he said. While I can't verify everything in his post, most of it is just common sense. Nintendo felt that it would be more impactful for K. Rool to make his grand return in the best selling fighting game of all-time than a port of a Wii U game. I don't think Sakurai had anything to do with that decision, though. Based on what I've heard, Nintendo was indeed blindsided by K. Rool's popularity. They didn't view him as an "essential" part of the brand, but thanks to the Smash Ballot, that has apparently changed. For what it's worth, there are more references to the Kremlings in Super Mario Odyssey than either of the Retro Donkey Kong Country games.

As for the theme park stuff, of course they're going to want to synergize that with a game. Do we really believe that Universal would agree to build a theme park expansion for a dormant IP? The reason it's taking so long is because the game was rebooted, we were—and technically still are—in the middle of a global pandemic, and Nintendo doesn't want to pull another Metroid Prime 4 and announce the game too early. It could be their big 2023 holiday game for all we know, but I have my doubts. Having said that, I expect the DK push to start once Tears of the Kingdom is out.
 
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