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Discussion What was the original source of the 2D Donkey Kong rumor?

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Rampo360 said:
2018 was the year TF released on Switch. I'd assume Nintendo saw the sales and decided to not go ahead with a 3rd one.
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yeah, maybe. But they were already working on this game for 3-4 years, so why don’t just finish and release it despite its sales potential? Also by then, the plans of bringing DK back must’ve been already made with the theme park etc. I really don’t get why this game got cancelled.
 
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Rampo360 said:
2018 was the year TF released on Switch. I'd assume Nintendo saw the sales and decided to not go ahead with a 3rd one.
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Lol Nintendo saw 4 million (and still counting) and said "nah." DKCTF is also Retro's second best selling game of all time so this reasoning makes no sense.
 
codacious said:
Yeah, I've seen a lot of people talk about how DKCR disregarded K Rool/the Kremlings, but overall I feel like the game was made with a lot of love for the original Rare trilogy.
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If I remember correctly, they even paid direct homage to the Rare logo. I personally prefer the DKC games on SNES, it's probably a bit of nostalgia talking, but I find that they somehow have a bit more soul. But in terms of level design, Retro Studio's DKs are a total masterpiece.

I love Koizumi, he's probably the person at Nintendo that I admire the most, but I really didn't like Jungle Beat's approach. I know that he is very attached to DK and he already expressed how important this character is to Nintendo, which was very cool, so I am still curious to see what EPD Tokyo is up to.
 
Rooster said:
I would've been very content continuing my life without the realization that I wanted this
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And so am I. If this info is accurate, it also shows how Retro Studios could have disappeared, as Nintendo outright initiated the total outsourcing of the two big licenses they had been in charge of, before changing their mind about Prime 4. If this results in a fantastic MP4 and an incredible DK by EPD8, this story will really have to be told.
 
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boodream said:
If I remember correctly, they even paid direct homage to the Rare logo. I personally prefer the DKC games on SNES, it's probably a bit of nostalgia talking, but I find that they somehow have a bit more soul. But in terms of level design, Retro Studio's DKs are a total masterpiece.

I love Koizumi, he's probably the person at Nintendo that I admire the most, but I really didn't like Jungle Beat's approach. I know that he is very attached to DK and he already expressed how important this character is to Nintendo, which was very cool, so I am still curious to see what EPD Tokyo is up to.
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I actually like the Retro games more, besides the gameplay I think the environments just also resonate with me more, but the SNES DKC games are really good too. I’ve been replaying DKC1 recently and the jungle levels are just amazing to me.

I’m not really into Jungle Beat either, I tried it on the Wii and I just couldn’t get into it.

I will say that right now, Retro would be my #1 choice for a new DK game, but I’m totally open to other studios making DK games too. I think it’s interesting to see different studios interpretations’ of the series.
 
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I will say that unless someone at EPD is really into Donkey Kong, it doesn't really make sense to put a lot of resources towards.

Big EPD games should be 10-50m sellers. Pikmin 4 is the only game announced since the establishment of EPD in which

1. The game is big budget
2. The game is extremely unlikely to sell 10m (ARMS and Labo also did low numbers but were new IPs that were hard to project)
3. The game is not on mobile

And Pikmin 4 is being made because Miyamoto.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I will say that unless someone at EPD is really into Donkey Kong, it doesn't really make sense to put a lot of resources towards.

Big EPD games should be 10-50m sellers. Pikmin 4 is the only game announced since the establishment of EPD in which

1. The game is big budget
2. The game is extremely unlikely to sell 10m (ARMS and Labo also did low numbers but were new IPs that were hard to project)
3. The game is not on mobile

And Pikmin 4 is being made because Miyamoto.
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Metroid doesn't sell close to 10m either but Nintendo puts a ton of resources/attention into them.

Zelda games didn't even reach 10m before BotW.
 
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No telling what a new DK could do on the Switch, a system that has given boosts to many Ninty properties. If these upward trends are any indication, DK could easily sell 10 million or very close to it.
 
I'd love for us to get a new DKC, but I hope it retains the quality Retro showed off on the last two games and I hope a good amount of the game retains the difficulty too. When Nintendo proper works on their platformers, they can occasionally go too far in making the games easy. It maybe doesn't need to be Tropical Freeze hard, but something in line with at least in between the original DKC and DKC2's tough, but fair design philosophy feels like a good sweet spot.
 
Nathan Little said:
No telling what a new DK could do on the Switch, a system that has given boosts to many Ninty properties. If these upward trends are any indication, DK could easily sell 10 million or very close to it.
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Yeah, I think DKTF in general was kind of a fluke for sales because games were less selling on the Wii U in general (it still did well I think for games on that system). Games on the Switch sell much more in general, pretty much every Nintendo series has their best selling games by far on the Switch. When even a port of a 2D DK has sold 4m so far on the Switch, a brand new one I think would sell a ton, prob more than DKCR which did like 6m, maybe even more than DKC1 which was like 9m I think. And if it's 3D I think it could easily be one of the best selling games on Switch.

EricTheGamerman said:
I'd love for us to get a new DKC, but I hope it retains the quality Retro showed off on the last two games and I hope a good amount of the game retains the difficulty too. When Nintendo proper works on their platformers, they can occasionally go too far in making the games easy. It maybe doesn't need to be Tropical Freeze hard, but something in line with at least in between the original DKC and DKC2's tough, but fair design philosophy feels like a good sweet spot.
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I totally agree, it's one of the reasons why DK is my favorite of Nintendo's platformer series. Well there's a lot of reasons, but the higher difficulty makes it a lot more engaging for me when their other platformers tend to be really easy.
 
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Hermii said:
My theory until disproven, is that this is another star fox Grand Prix.


A fake leak, fabricated to sniff out leakers.
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That’s very unlikely. Too many credible people have said DK is real. Including Nate and NL own private independent source.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I will say that unless someone at EPD is really into Donkey Kong, it doesn't really make sense to put a lot of resources towards.

Big EPD games should be 10-50m sellers. Pikmin 4 is the only game announced since the establishment of EPD in which

1. The game is big budget
2. The game is extremely unlikely to sell 10m (ARMS and Labo also did low numbers but were new IPs that were hard to project)
3. The game is not on mobile

And Pikmin 4 is being made because Miyamoto.
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What? No lol.
Also Nintendo surely never expected ARMS to sell 10M, yet they've let Mario Kart team make it.
Before BotW, fucking Zelda had never reached 10M.
Also it's a 2D DK game, it will cost nowhere near what 3D Mario and 3D Zelda do.
And, finally, both DK and 3D Mario are being developed at EPD Tokyo, so DK coming only diversifies Switch library, with the potential of making the franchise hit its highest again, it won't mean 3D Mario won't come.
 
PikminSnezkov said:
That’s very unlikely. Too many credible people have said DK is real. Including Nate and NL own private independent source.
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Lots of people said SF Grand Prix was real too.

Whatever, we will know soon enough what EPD Tokyo is working on. Personally doubt it's 2D Donkey Kong. But happy to eat crow.
 
Hermii said:
Whatever, we will know soon enough what EPD Tokyo is working on. Personally doubt it's 2D Donkey Kong. But happy to eat crow.
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if both EPD Kyoto (Group 10 probably) and EPD Tokyo have 2D Action Game projects in production as the job recruitment listings suggest, what would they be?

There’s plenty of reason to be skeptical about the rumor, and I was until that Tokyo 2D recruitment too; but there’s not really any good answer to the question that doesn’t come down to Mario and DK. I don’t think EPD Tokyo working on Yoshi or Wario Land are more likely scenarios, at least.
 
MondoMega said:
if both EPD Kyoto (Group 10 probably) and EPD Tokyo have 2D Action Game projects in production as the job recruitment listings suggest, what would they be?

There’s plenty of reason to be skeptical about the rumor, and I was until that Tokyo 2D recruitment too; but there’s not really any good answer to the question that doesn’t come down to Mario and DK. I don’t think EPD Tokyo working on Yoshi or Wario Land are more likely scenarios, at least.
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Two different types of 2D Mario games.

eg, EPD 10 could be making a multiplayer focused 2D Mario game and EPD Tokyo could be making a more traditional Mario game.
 
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Judging how resource intensive this 2D game would be is hard just because it's very hard to tell what happened to EPD Tokyo.

They simply vanished right after Odyssey's release with minor DLC, no follow-up, and barely any work on other titles for the last 5 (coming up on 6) years.
 
MondoMega said:
if both EPD Kyoto (Group 10 probably) and EPD Tokyo have 2D Action Game projects in production as the job recruitment listings suggest, what would they be?

There’s plenty of reason to be skeptical about the rumor, and I was until that Tokyo 2D recruitment too; but there’s not really any good answer to the question that doesn’t come down to Mario and DK. I don’t think EPD Tokyo working on Yoshi or Wario Land are more likely scenarios, at least.
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What was the exact job description? There are plenty of reasons why a 3d game would have 2d artists. There's been 2d levels in every Mario game from them since galaxy.
 
MondoMega said:
if both EPD Kyoto (Group 10 probably) and EPD Tokyo have 2D Action Game projects in production as the job recruitment listings suggest, what would they be?

There’s plenty of reason to be skeptical about the rumor, and I was until that Tokyo 2D recruitment too; but there’s not really any good answer to the question that doesn’t come down to Mario and DK. I don’t think EPD Tokyo working on Yoshi or Wario Land are more likely scenarios, at least.
Click to expand...

Fingers crossed! I'd love a new 2D DK game. Hope EPD has actually been working away on one!
 
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Emily Rogers actually denied knowing anything about the DK game in February 21th, 2021.

However, the tweet has been deleted very recently, I’d say just few days ago.

( I don’t know how to upload pictures on Famiboards, so I’ll just quote the tweet. I have the tweet saved.)

I hope the rumors are true, but I don't have any information on Donkey Kong.


I know literally nothing about DK.

However, I've heard tons of buzz about a Metroid-related project that's far along in-development. I hope we'll get more information soon on what that's all about.
 
PikminSnezkov said:
Emily Rogers actually denied knowing anything about the DK game in February 21th, 2021.

However, the tweet has been deleted very recently, I’d say just few days ago.

( I don’t know how to upload pictures on Famiboards, so I’ll just quote the tweet. I have the tweet saved.)

I hope the rumors are true, but I don't have any information on Donkey Kong.


I know literally nothing about DK.

However, I've heard tons of buzz about a Metroid-related project that's far along in-development. I hope we'll get more information soon on what that's all about.
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Sure it's not Prime 4?
 
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Hermii said:
What was the exact job description? There are plenty of reasons why a 3d game would have 2d artists. There's been 2d levels in every Mario game from them since galaxy.
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nintendowire.com

Nintendo is hiring level designers to develop new 2D action games - Nintendo Wire

Mini presentations and occasional surprise announcements aside, it’s been so long since we saw a full-fledged Nintendo Direct. It’s understandable, given how the COVID-19 pandemic has thrown many wrenches in the works, but we can’t help but wonder just what Nintendo has been working on...
nintendowire.com nintendowire.com

The exact job description was "Level designer for 2D action game"
 
KarmaDesires said:
I signed up just to post this.

Retro Studios Reviews: What Is It Like to Work At Retro Studios?

16 Retro Studios reviews. A free inside look at company reviews and salaries posted anonymously by employees.
www.glassdoor.co.uk www.glassdoor.co.uk

Retro-Studios-Shoulda-been-Donkey-Kong-Glassdoor.png



Didn't he correctly predict Metroid 5 and Super Mario Party 2 would get announced in the summer direct of 2021, or were those just accurate guesses?
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Thanks for posting!
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I will say that unless someone at EPD is really into Donkey Kong, it doesn't really make sense to put a lot of resources towards.

Big EPD games should be 10-50m sellers. Pikmin 4 is the only game announced since the establishment of EPD in which

1. The game is big budget
2. The game is extremely unlikely to sell 10m (ARMS and Labo also did low numbers but were new IPs that were hard to project)
3. The game is not on mobile

And Pikmin 4 is being made because Miyamoto.
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Yes, any game that does not sell between 10 and 50 (!) million should not exist. Bonus points for using the "Miyamoto" random card. :)
 
boodream said:
Yes, any game that does not sell between 10 and 50 (!) million should not exist. Bonus points for using the "Miyamoto" random card. :)
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I'm saying there's literally two Nintendo EPD games ever released that were big budget console games that have sold less than 10m copies (ARMS and Labo).

Pikmin 4 will obviously be the third, but EPD's games usually sell 10m to 50m.

Guessing Nintendo EPD only started making a new 2D DK or Yoshi if:

1. A very important person at Nintendo EPD loves the franchise a huge amount

or

2. Nintendo thinks that this series (whether that be DK, Yoshi, or something else) can become a monster seller in this era with some changes.
 
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I wonder if Mario vs. Donkey Kong is on the table. Not the Minis nonsense, the actual puzzle platformers from the GB/GBA.

Seeing a full effort in that vein would be sick.
 
codacious said:
I’m just confused, are Zelda and Metroid not EPD or something?
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EPD supervises many games, but only develops a fraction of those.

EPD supervised: Metroid Prime 4, Metroid Dread, DKC Tropical Freeze, Bowser's Fury, Luigi's Mansion 3, Zelda remakes, etc
EPD developed: BotW, TotK, Mario Odyssey, New Horizons, RingFit Adventure, Labo, Splatoon 2 and 3, Mario Maker 2, Arms, Pikmin 4, etc
 
We don't know anything about the budget that would have an hypothetical new DK game by EPD. At this point we don't know if the game even exist, who is working on it, or if EPD put more money in it than in Capitaéin Toad, for exemple, or even Jungle Beat, which at its time was kind of an experimental project. What we know is that Nintendo, as a publisher, is happy with and care about plenty of franchise that are selling much less than 10 millions (Kirby, Metroid and Metroid Prime, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, Yoshi, and yes, even DK).

Thinking that everything that is not a HUGE success is not a sucess at all is an usual opinion, but it's not mine.
 
boodream said:
We don't know anything about the budget that would have an hypothetical new DK game by EPD. At this point we don't know if the game even exist, who is working on it, or if EPD put more money in it than in Capitaéin Toad, for exemple, or even Jungle Beat, which at its time was kind of an experimental project. What we know is that Nintendo, as a publisher, is happy with and care about plenty of franchise that are selling much less than 10 millions (Kirby, Metroid and Metroid Prime, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, Yoshi, and yes, even DK).

Thinking that everything that is not a HUGE success is not a sucess at all is an usual opinion, but it's not mine.
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If this is a very small project, then yes, Nintendo will probably be happy with much less than 10m.
 
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Nathan Little said:
Considering DK is getting a dedicated theme park, it makes sense EPD would put resources into the franchise just from that alone.
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Exactly this. I think despite Donkey Kong not having a brand new game in a while, it’s one of the most recognisable franchises globally. Thus it’s getting the theme park expansion.

And I think their plan is to have the DK EPD game achieve those high sales too.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
EPD supervises many games, but only develops a fraction of those.

EPD supervised: Metroid Prime 4, Metroid Dread, DKC Tropical Freeze, Bowser's Fury, Luigi's Mansion 3, Zelda remakes, etc
EPD developed: BotW, TotK, Mario Odyssey, New Horizons, RingFit Adventure, Labo, Splatoon 2 and 3, Mario Maker 2, Arms, Pikmin 4, etc
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Ok, I didn't realize that.
 
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codacious said:
I’m just confused, are Zelda and Metroid not EPD or something?
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3D Zelda yes, 2D Zelda has been outsourced since, oh, Tri Force Heroes or thereabouts. I believe there was "development cooperation" between EPD 3 (the EPD Zelda team) and Grezzo for Link's Awakening, but I'm under the impression that Grezzo did most of the heavy lifting.

As for 3D Zeldas: Monolith Soft helped with level design and artwork on BOTW, and judging by some hiring calls seems to be taking a more expansive role for Tears of the Kingdom. Regardless, however, EPD is still involved, and I don't think that's likely to change. It's just that these sorts of games are getting bigger and bigger, and it's harder for a single development team to handle them all on their own.

EPD mostly supervises Metroid, I believe. Pretty much all of the Metroid games since Prime or so have been outsourced, either to other studios within Nintendo (e.g. Retro for the Prime series) or external developers (e.g. MercurySteam on Dread).
 
AoiHana said:
3D Zelda yes, 2D Zelda has been outsourced since, oh, Tri Force Heroes or thereabouts. I believe there was "development cooperation" between EPD 3 (the EPD Zelda team) and Grezzo for Link's Awakening, but I'm under the impression that Grezzo did most of the heavy lifting.

As for 3D Zeldas: Monolith Soft helped with level design and artwork on BOTW, and judging by some hiring calls seems to be taking a more expansive role for Tears of the Kingdom. Regardless, however, EPD is still involved, and I don't think that's likely to change. It's just that these sorts of games are getting bigger and bigger, and it's harder for a single development team to handle them all on their own.

EPD mostly supervises Metroid, I believe. Pretty much all of the Metroid games since Prime or so have been outsourced, either to other studios within Nintendo (e.g. Retro for the Prime series) or external developers (e.g. MercurySteam on Dread).
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That's what I was confused about, since it kept getting mentioned that EPD didn't have any under 10m selling games, but I was pretty sure they developed at least most Zelda games.
 
PikminSnezkov said:
Exactly this. I think despite Donkey Kong not having a brand new game in a while, it’s one of the most recognisable franchises globally. Thus it’s getting the theme park expansion.

And I think their plan is to have the DK EPD game achieve those high sales too.
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It's also why if this exists I highly doubt it's an Arcade throwback. It'll have recognizable elements of the DKC series, that's what people think of for DK nowadays.
 
codacious said:
That's what I was confused about, since it kept getting mentioned that EPD didn't have any under 10m selling games, but I was pretty sure they developed at least most Zelda games.
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Oh, that's something a little different. EPD is pretty new, only dating back to around 2015 or so. Before that, Nintendo's in-house teams were divided between EAD and SPD, and the Zelda team was EAD 3. (It's one of only a couple EAD/SPD teams to have kept its original division number, for what that's worth.) EPD 3 hasn't made a game under 10 million, but EAD 3 sure has. (BOTW was like, the first Zelda game to crack 10 million IIRC.)
 
AoiHana said:
Oh, that's something a little different. EPD is pretty new, only dating back to around 2015 or so. Before that, Nintendo's in-house teams were divided between EAD and SPD, and the Zelda team was EAD 3. (It's one of only a couple EAD/SPD teams to have kept its original division number, for what that's worth.) EPD 3 hasn't made a game under 10 million, but EAD 3 sure has. (BOTW was like, the first Zelda game to crack 10 million IIRC.)
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Oh ok, yeah I didn’t know that about EPD/EAD.

And yeah, BotW was the first Zelda game to get over 10m. Before that I’d say the only really big sellers were TP at almost 9m, and OoT at 7.6m (and the 3DS version did an additional 6.4m). And DK could totally compete with those, actually the highest selling DK game was DKC1 at over 9m, and DKCR was around 6.5m.
 
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This isn’t a comment on Zippo, as I prefer not to judge people online who I don’t even know personally, but I will say as insignificant or significant it may be, Hyle (DK Vine) did say that he considers Zippo to be his friend.

But I want to point out that Hyle has said Zippo isn’t the only source. The other Nintendo source has a nickname “Dave Throat”.

But as I’ve expressed previously, I mostly trust Nate on this issue. And the private NL source too.
 
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    • PikminSnezkov said:
    This isn’t a comment on Zippo, as I prefer not to judge people online who I don’t even know personally, but I will say as insignificant or significant it may be, Hyle (DK Vine) did say that he considers Zippo to be his friend.

    But I want to point out that Hyle has said Zippo isn’t the only source. The other Nintendo source has a nickname “Dave Throat”.

    But as I’ve expressed previously, I mostly trust Nate on this issue. And the private NL source too.
    Click to expand...
    As someone who has known Hyle for nearly two decades, I trust his judgment if he comes forward with a rumor/leak that he believes to be legitimate, even if Zippo's sources are questionable. I can also believe the legitimacy of Dave Throat through things I've heard second/thirdhand regarding other subjects, but again, I cannot confirm the truth of this report on DK. Believe me when I say I want it to be real more than anything, though.
     
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    • Mekanos said:
    As someone who has known Hyle for nearly two decades, I trust his judgment if he comes forward with a rumor/leak that he believes to be legitimate, even if Zippo's sources are questionable. I can also believe the legitimacy of Dave Throat through things I've heard second/thirdhand regarding other subjects, but again, I cannot confirm the truth of this report on DK. Believe me when I say I want it to be real more than anything, though.
    Click to expand...
    Thank you for your insight! Very interesting
     
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