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Discussion What was the original source of the 2D Donkey Kong rumor?

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Dante Kong said:
I think the big part of doing DK again in 3D has to be getting the roll and roll jump right. As much as I love DK 64 the roll move in that game is atrocious and slow. Thinking of all the country games, rolling and roll jumping through the level is quick, fluid and satisfying. I do think you can blend that with both platforming and combat, but time will tell
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Yeah the roll jump is such a huge part of DK, that’s definitely a big thing that should also feel really fun in a 3D game
 
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A 3D Donkey Kong game that emphasizes fluid movement like the DKCR games would be chef's kiss.
 
Getting 3D mine cart levels that approach the spectacle and creativity of the Retro DKC titles would also be a major boon.
 
JR436 said:
Getting 3D mine cart levels that approach the spectacle and creativity of the Retro DKC titles would also be a major boon.
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This was always the level I would show people who had never seen Tropical Freeze before to sell them on the game:



Something with this level of energy and atmosphere in full 3D would be unbelievable.
 
Joe said:
This was always the level I would show people who had never seen Tropical Freeze before to sell them on the game:



Something with this level of energy and atmosphere in full 3D would be unbelievable.
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Absolutely.

The thing is, that level does technically have a 3D minecart segment. It still however feels constrained to two dimensions, in a weird way?

I'd really like them to buck wild with the minecart levels, if possible.
 
Joe said:
This was always the level I would show people who had never seen Tropical Freeze before to sell them on the game:



Something with this level of energy and atmosphere in full 3D would be unbelievable.
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Yeah High Tide Ride I think is my favorite mine cart level in the series.
 
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I'd love to see the rocket barrels also make the jump to 3D. Reckless Ride in TF is one of my favorite levels in that game so they definitely left a mark on me
 
Yeah, Reckless Ride was great too (and also my favorite rocket barrel level in the series). I think the partially 3D sections really add a lot to mine cart/rocket barrel levels.
 
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Just talked with the original private source, and there is now a strong possibility DYKG will cover this story!

Activision DK game, Donkey Kong Freedom, will finally be known to all fellow Nintendo fans.
 
It's going to be pretty awesome when the DK Fandom and greater Nintendo community learn about this game. It hasn't been too fun for most of the 9 year radio silence from DK after Tropical Freeze, but hopefully most of the pessimism surrounding the series will fade away when it's clear to everyone that Nintendo has cared all along.
 
My top 3 Nintendo franchises are Zelda, Pikmin and DK. 2 of the 3 are covered for this year, which is already sublime. Knowing there’s a chance that EPDK can release this year is just too much. I could reasonably give up gaming and be content knowing the last 35 years of me gaming culminated to this.
 
At least one legitimate gaming journalist to my knowledge has been aware of the story of DK between 2015-2017 and for whatever reason never published a report, so I’m not sure how easily this will come to DYKG. I do wish them the best of luck, they all seem like cool guys and it’d be great to see an outlet that genuinely seems to like the DK series get to break some compelling news here.
 
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Is there any fear of litigation from Nintendo if staff from VV or a journalist reports on this cancelled game? Wasn't there some copyright claims from Nintendo on DYKG's channel regarding the pitched Sheik game by Retro Studios?

Even though the cat's out of the bag and many people on this site and DK Vine know about this VV project, do you think journalists or VV staff fear Nintendo's lawyers and that could be why no one's reported on it yet?
 
KremlingKuthroat said:
Is there any fear of litigation from Nintendo if staff from VV or a journalist reports on this cancelled game? Wasn't there some copyright claims from Nintendo on DYKG's channel regarding the pitched Sheik game by Retro Studios?

Even though the cat's out of the bag and many people on this site and DK Vine know about this VV project, do you think journalists or VV staff fear Nintendo's lawyers and that could be why no one's reported on it yet?
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I think that one part of it may be that the game getting the axed is partly to do with Nintendo wanting to bring DK in house, and we obviously don't have an official announcement of EPDK yet, so if VV staf testify about this they would also be (indirectly) leaking one of Nintendos future products? That's my theory at least, besides the usual NDA stuff Nintendo tends to be airtight about
 
Nathan Little said:
Man, if we manage to get this year both DK and Metroid Prime 4, this year would immediately be my favorite for the Switch hands down.
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I don't see it happening for MP4 but if TotK lives up to the hype and we get at least a DK then yeah it woul be my favorite too.
 
KremlingKuthroat said:
Is there any fear of litigation from Nintendo if staff from VV or a journalist reports on this cancelled game? Wasn't there some copyright claims from Nintendo on DYKG's channel regarding the pitched Sheik game by Retro Studios?

Even though the cat's out of the bag and many people on this site and DK Vine know about this VV project, do you think journalists or VV staff fear Nintendo's lawyers and that could be why no one's reported on it yet?
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That did cross my mind. Even though I have been doing a lot of research myself, and doing journalism as a hobby sometimes, I don’t have law expertise to be certain.

However, it should be noted DYKG itself and their journalist are not tied to any Nintendo NDAs, so they are not breaching any agreements by doing journalism. It’s their right.

But there might be some intimidation, since as you pointed out how connected the DK Freedom and DK EPD are. They could either not mention DK EPD in the video at all, maybe go like “We cannot disclose the reason this game was cancelled.”

But then again, everyone online has been talking about EPD DK for couple of years now already, so it’s not some top secret project at this point. This would simply reveal the source of that rumour, which is ex-Vicarious Vision staff.

But also… part of me thinks DYKG will sit on this story until the next Nintendo Direct. (Or whenever EPD DK is announced.) I wish they would do it sooner, but that’s just my gut feeling what will happen.
 
KremlingKuthroat said:
Is there any fear of litigation from Nintendo if staff from VV or a journalist reports on this cancelled game? Wasn't there some copyright claims from Nintendo on DYKG's channel regarding the pitched Sheik game by Retro Studios?

Even though the cat's out of the bag and many people on this site and DK Vine know about this VV project, do you think journalists or VV staff fear Nintendo's lawyers and that could be why no one's reported on it yet?
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Not on the Sheik game, no. On the Zelda Tactics game but that’s only because it had private internal documents in it.
 
NDA is a contract clause, the only people binded to it are Nintendo's contractors. Journalists can report whatever they want as long as it not lies or defamation.

The same confusion happened when Nintendo took down DYKG's video in an authoritarian move, but that was later correctly rectified by YouTube since they had no fucking business censoring jorunalism (and I hope DYKG got some money from them in that process).
 
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Is there any word on what exactly happened to the Vicarious Visions project? Was it completely cancelled or is it still being made in some form? From what it sounds like, it seems that Miyamoto was happy with what they were doing so it doesn't sound right that the whole thing could have been scrapped altogether.
 
Joe said:
Is there any word on what exactly happened to the Vicarious Visions project? Was it completely cancelled or is it still being made in some form? From what it sounds like, it seems that Miyamoto was happy with what they were doing so it doesn't sound right that the whole thing could have been scrapped altogether.
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I'd like to imagine a lot will carry over. A lot of what VV was doing was at the behest of Nintendo.

That was years ago though.

Some things stay the same, some things don't. Like Metroid Prime 4 has a new team different to the previous one. But Kensuke Tanabe is still producer so it will have the same story.

I genuinely am doubting more and more each day that DK Freedom is still the same game within EPD...
 
Joe said:
Is there any word on what exactly happened to the Vicarious Visions project? Was it completely cancelled or is it still being made in some form? From what it sounds like, it seems that Miyamoto was happy with what they were doing so it doesn't sound right that the whole thing could have been scrapped altogether.
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I think EPD will be doing their own thing, at best some very general ideas would cross over into EPDK. The idea of an open 3D game still seems like something we can see in the next DK to me. But Vine grinding? Eh, maybe. Playable Pauline? I really doubt it. She seems to have settled into the "Mario series" designation after Odyssey so I don't see her reappearing in a mainline DK anytime soon. Some of the more general Country elements like Diddy, Rambi and the kritters seem pretty likely though.
 
Ever since the newest Mario movie trailer showed Donkey Kong getting a fire flower power up, it convinced me that the rumored "Donkey Kong" game from the Mario developers is just a new Mario 3D World where Donkey Kong will be playable. Launching this fall. Bookmark this.
 
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Yeah I still doubt that Pauline will be in the next DK, she just doesn’t really fit in the DKC universe imo. I can see them going the open world DK route, and some type of vine grinding, that stuff seems like it could be carried over to me. Though I think it’s equally possible they go with a totally different level-based DK, whether that’s 2D or 3D. And I think this vine grinding thing could fit in that game too, it’s kind of a natural extension from the zipline stuff in TF.
 
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Scrawnton said:
Ever since the newest Mario movie trailer showed Donkey Kong getting a fire flower power up, it convinced me that the rumored "Donkey Kong" game from the Mario developers is just a new Mario 3D World where Donkey Kong will be playa me. Launching this fall. Bookmark this.
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That would be extremely disappointing to me. I like Mario, but I don't want the series to absorb the DK franchise. When I'm playing DK, I want it to be him and his crew I'm playing around with. Mario can stay in his lane.
 
It's so wild to think how long ago DK Freedom by VV was in development. So many years, was quite some time ago, haha

DK doing tarzan physics like in Freedom I hope is retained cause it sounded really cool. Literally running on walls
 
I don't expect Pauline to appear in EPD Tokyo's Donkey Kong game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if her appearance in Vicarious Visions' game is what inspired them to include her in Odyssey and make New Donk City DK-themed. The original vision for New Donk City looked waaaaay different than what we got. She's been fully absorbed into the Mario franchise at this point.
 
As far as Pauline goes, she appears to now be under Mario brand management and not DK anymore. Yes. So I don't think she will be back

Her role in the story of Freedom was quite fascinating in concept at least. ̶K̶r̶e̶m̶k̶r̶o̶c̶ ̶I̶n̶d̶u̶s̶t̶r̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶I̶n̶c̶.̶ The Corporation that was damming the Kongo River and stealing the Kongs' water had Pauline playable in the stealth sections investigating it, revamped with a Jane Goodall redesign of her character.
 
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PikminSnezkov said:
If a new thread is needed, I think @KremlingKuthroat is the best user to create it. Kremling has the knowledge of the DK Vine discussions, so I think Kremling is most suited to summarise "THE STORY SO FAR" : p
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Thanks so much for the endorsement :)

I think this thread should be renamed, but not restarted as a new thread. There's a lot of juicy info here anyways.

Perhaps the thread should be retitled "Donkey Kong Hype Thread" or "Donkey Kong Speculation Thread" and just be a fun thread for all DK speculation and hype regarding games, movies, the theme park, and merchandise. Besides the DK Vine forum and some smaller spaces like a small DK reddit and DK Discord servers, there's not a big space for DK fans to discuss and celebrate the franchise. Maybe this thread could be that or is that too much and this thread should be focused on just the EPD game?

Regarding the VV project getting picked up by gaming journalists, maybe they're just waiting for the EPD DK game to be revealed/released to get the heat from Nintendo's legal team off their back
 
Trevelyan said:
How is everyone feeling about the DK game being this year vs next? I know we have 2 Nintendo teams that have been working on 2D games for at least 3+ years thanks to hiring calls. I feel DK will be this year and be pseudo 2D/3D.
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I'm fairly confident the 2D hirings were for a 2D Mario game but could have been some overlap
 
Trevelyan said:
How is everyone feeling about the DK game being this year vs next? I know we have 2 Nintendo teams that have been working on 2D games for at least 3+ years thanks to hiring calls. I feel DK will be this year and be pseudo 2D/3D.
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Personally, I think a DK game will be released within the release window of the Donkey Kong expansion in Japan in 2024. The reason I italicized the word "a" is because it could either be the EPD game or a Returns remaster. Since the park is based on Returns, I strongly believe that Nintendo will want to rerelease that game to coincide with the park releasing, similar to how they handled the 3D World port releasing alongside the opening of Super Nintendo World in Japan.

Also, Tiki Tong is rumored to be part of the DK attraction so that could be even more evidence of a Returns remaster

Regarding the EPD game, there's just too many variables. No one knows when the next Nintendo Switch will be announced/released. I personally don't think it'll release until at least March 2025, but that's just my opinion. There's a lot of speculation that this new DK game will be a launch title for the new Switch so if that's the case then we won't hear about this game until Nintendo's ready to announce the next Nintendo console.

If this new DK game isn't a launch title for the next Switch and will be a current Switch game, then I think they'll announce it in the next 6-12 months
 
Trevelyan said:
How is everyone feeling about the DK game being this year vs next? I know we have 2 Nintendo teams that have been working on 2D games for at least 3+ years thanks to hiring calls. I feel DK will be this year and be pseudo 2D/3D.
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I'm not optimistic that it comes out this year if it exists. It might end up being a crossgen title at the current rate.
 
Nintendo's H2 has yet to be revealed. it totally could be DK.

goddamn. TOTK, Pikmin 4, DK, Prime 4 may be the single best Switch year.
 
Trevelyan said:
How is everyone feeling about the DK game being this year vs next? I know we have 2 Nintendo teams that have been working on 2D games for at least 3+ years thanks to hiring calls. I feel DK will be this year and be pseudo 2D/3D.
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I think it just honestly depends on what's Nintendo's strat when it comes to Metroid Prime 4, MonkEPD and whatever 2D Mario game is in store.

With Prime-Re serving as a nice "warm up act" for MP4, I think that means Prime 4 could land anywhere from Q4 2023 to March 2024 (or basically, no later than a year after Prime-Re's release). 2D Mario is something I could definitely see releasing by the end of the year to both take advantage of the holidays, as well as whenever the home release of the Mario movie is ready.

That just leaves MonkEPD as the one that's most hard to nail down of where it can best fit. But I just feel that Summer 2024 sounds better. Might even gel with it being a crossgen title. Or at least takes the pressure off the 3D Mario to be a crossgen and be allowed to fully take advantage of what the Switch's successor has to offer...
 
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Another interesting piece of evidence pointing against this DK game being 2D is the hiring calls for a 2D game were in 2020. By all accounts this DK game was started by EPD in late 2017-early 2018, basically immediately after Super Mario Odyssey released.

They could've been prototyping ideas for 2-3 years before deciding the game was going to be 2D and then made hiring calls in 2020, but I tend to think that the timing of those 2D hiring calls lines up better for a 2D Mario game since Mario Maker 2 and New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe both released in 2019 and work for the next 2D Mario began soon afterwards.
 
KremlingKuthroat said:
Another interesting piece of evidence pointing against this DK game being 2D is the hiring calls for a 2D game were in 2020. By all accounts this DK game was started by EPD in late 2017-early 2018, basically immediately after Super Mario Odyssey released.

They could've been prototyping ideas for 2-3 years before deciding the game was going to be 2D and then made hiring calls in 2020, but I tend to think that the timing of those 2D hiring calls lines up better for a 2D Mario game since Mario Maker 2 and New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe both released in 2019 and work for the next 2D Mario began soon afterwards.
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I certainly hope so.

Because the more I learn about VV's game, the more I really, really hope the basic idea was that Nintendo just opted to just take what began there and run with it back within their own walls.
 
KremlingKuthroat said:
Another interesting piece of evidence pointing against this DK game being 2D is the hiring calls for a 2D game were in 2020. By all accounts this DK game was started by EPD in late 2017-early 2018, basically immediately after Super Mario Odyssey released.

They could've been prototyping ideas for 2-3 years before deciding the game was going to be 2D and then made hiring calls in 2020, but I tend to think that the timing of those 2D hiring calls lines up better for a 2D Mario game since Mario Maker 2 and New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe both released in 2019 and work for the next 2D Mario began soon afterwards.
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The Kyoto 2D Action Game recruitment was posted in October 2019, though; which lines up perfectly with the two projects that freed up the staff / resources necessary for 2D Mario (Splatoon 2 and Super Mario Maker 2; a good amount of New Super Mario Bros. leads and designers worked on Splatoon 1 and 2 but were not credited on 3). NSMBU Deluxe is a non-factor since it was completed for at least over half a year before it launched, likely more.

There is some posibility that perhaps Tokyo are lending staff to Kyoto's 2D Mario project, hence the additional hiring for 2D Action Game level designers in Tokyo in August 2020, but that's a level of cooperation between EPD Kyoto and Tokyo that just hasn't happened before, so from our perspective the most likely option would be Tokyo having their own 2D project in production.
 
KremlingKuthroat said:
Another interesting piece of evidence pointing against this DK game being 2D is the hiring calls for a 2D game were in 2020. By all accounts this DK game was started by EPD in late 2017-early 2018, basically immediately after Super Mario Odyssey released.

They could've been prototyping ideas for 2-3 years before deciding the game was going to be 2D and then made hiring calls in 2020, but I tend to think that the timing of those 2D hiring calls lines up better for a 2D Mario game since Mario Maker 2 and New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe both released in 2019 and work for the next 2D Mario began soon afterwards.
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Didn’t EPD 10 (the traditional 2D Mario team) put out similar hiring calls around the same time, though? Not necessarily saying the DK project is 2D; it could go either way, really. But it seems weird to me for EPD Tokyo not to be doing a 3D Mario project, since those tend to sell pretty well and Switch Redacted would undoubtedly benefit from something of that caliber. If EPD 10 is doing their own 2D project, it wouldn’t make much sense for Tokyo to be doing a 2D Mario IMO.

That said, assuming the rumours about VV’s project and the new DK game starting development circa 2018-19 are true… might the 2D project be something else entirely? If the EPD DK team was formed from pre-existing members of EPD Tokyo, it would definitely make more sense for it to be 3D or hybrid 2D/3D (think those sidescrolling sections in Galaxy and Odyssey) than pure 2D. For all we know, Nintendo saw Antonblast and Pizza Tower and was like “shit, let’s greenlight a new Wario Land!” or something, and that’s what the 2D hiring call was for.
 
AoiHana said:
Didn’t EPD 10 (the traditional 2D Mario team) put out similar hiring calls around the same time, though? Not necessarily saying the DK project is 2D; it could go either way, really. But it seems weird to me for EPD Tokyo not to be doing a 3D Mario project, since those tend to sell pretty well and Switch Redacted would undoubtedly benefit from something of that caliber. If EPD 10 is doing their own 2D project, it wouldn’t make much sense for Tokyo to be doing a 2D Mario IMO.

That said, assuming the rumours about VV’s project and the new DK game starting development circa 2018-19 are true… might the 2D project be something else entirely? If the EPD DK team was formed from pre-existing members of EPD Tokyo, it would definitely make more sense for it to be 3D or hybrid 2D/3D (think those sidescrolling sections in Galaxy and Odyssey) than pure 2D. For all we know, Nintendo saw Antonblast and Pizza Tower and was like “shit, let’s greenlight a new Wario Land!” or something, and that’s what the 2D hiring call was for.
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I'm going to keep an open mind no matter what

But even if the new DK ends up being 2D. We do know that the previous DK Switch by VV was 3D, so the franchise is not locked in.

With this newfound DK team within EPD, we can now get a variety of games back to back that explore a vast array of types. We can still get 2D 2.5D or 3D down the road sooner as this new team is the foundation for the IP going forward

No more temporary one-off studios that abandon the brand with no pre-determined focus of what's next. An actual home team dedicated to Donkey Kong that can give us games every 4-5 years now of all kinds.
 
I'm no expert on hiring calls or which factions of EPD work on which games. All I know is the information I've heard from Hyle on the DK Vine forums and the Kongversation. It's anyone's guess at what EPD's cooking with the new DK game.

Tanabe did say both 2D DK and 3D DK could coexist in the future: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...ghts_potential_return_of_3d_donkey_kong_games

There's definitely a desire within Nintendo internally to have 3D DK games at some point imo. I believe Hyle also mentioned on the Kongversation that there's been an internal desire to make a 3D DK game for a while now fwiw
 
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I'm curious as to if you all think well be seeing a General Direct in the summer or not. Either way I think we'll get a September Direct but if there were, say, a big game coming out at the end of the year (like DK) they would need to announce it a few months in advance. DK is historically announced at E3 as well, but Nintendo won't be attending this year. Not to say DK needs to be announced in the summer for it to exist, but I think if we don't get a summer Direct we won't be seeing DK until next year. That ominous empty second half of Nintnedos year is just begging to be occupied by DK, though! It's a tough call if you ask me
 
Dante Kong said:
I'm curious as to if you all think well be seeing a General Direct in the summer or not. Either way I think we'll get a September Direct but if there were, say, a big game coming out at the end of the year (like DK) they would need to announce it a few months in advance. DK is historically announced at E3 as well, but Nintendo won't be attending this year. Not to say DK needs to be announced in the summer for it to exist, but I think if we don't get a summer Direct we won't be seeing DK until next year. That ominous empty second half of Nintnedos year is just begging to be occupied by DK, though! It's a tough call if you ask me
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It could go either way imo. I'm personally satisfied with DK in 2023 with the Mario movie. I never thought I'd see Cranky Kong in a motion picture, and with how much screen time DK is getting, any other DK announcements is gravy for me :)
 
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