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Discussion What was the original source of the 2D Donkey Kong rumor?

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Arcadenblog

Arcadenblog

DK3 PB: 1,112,400
I've been thinking on and off about what exactly happened to the 2D(2.5D?) DK game that Nintendo EPD Tokyo is supposedly working on, and I figured now would be a good time to gather evidence to help corroborate how legitimate the rumor is.

I remember this rumor started sometime in either late 2020 or early 2021, and this was before people started reporting on it shortly before E3 2021. We are now almost 2 years removed from then, and I'd like to know the full story behind the rumor. When it started, who said it, how many people have corroborated it, and any other evidence, if any.

Thanks!
 
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The original source was a DK Vine video. It was later backed by the hiring calls for a 2D action game from EPD Tokyo, and later Nate talked about having heard about it from his sources as well.
 
1. It is almost certain that EPD Tokyo was working on a 2D platformer in 2020. Whether it is still in development or was cancelled is uncertain.

2. Others have heard that this 2D game is a new Donkey Kong game (such as DK Vine and Nate), but not too many and none with like a 90% hit rate or anything and no one who would realistically have contacts with EPD Tokyo.
 
Timeline
  • Index
    • Some simplified timeline; ( I omitted out the parts where DK Vine discuss the cancelled Activision (Vicarious / Toys For Bob) Donkey Kong game.

    September 20th, 2020, DK Vine(Hyle) says he has heard from multiple sources younger generation at EPD & Miyamoto are advocating for big long-term DK plans.

    January 4th, 2021 DK Vine says a new epd DK game is in development.

    January 6th, 2021 Nate reveals he has heard rumors of new 2D DK game by EPD.

    May 13th, 2021 Nintendo Life, they claim to have a private independent source backing up the rumor.
     
  • Index
    • There was also a poster here who had heard about it years ago who I’d trust, but I don’t want to post them if they don’t want attention.

    Maybe they’ll post if they want
     
    metal-gear-rising-metal-gear-rising-revengeance.gif
     
    totofogo said:
    The what now, I missed that somehow lol. Interesting.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah we’ve been talking about it here on Famiboards in the Star Topic thread of 1st party software, for couple of days now.

    MondoMega actually from Famiboards tipped off that the game was canned very early on Switch Life cycle.

    I did ask Liam about it too. He said he hadn’t heard of it himself, but he said he could follow up on it if he knew the dates.
     
    Arcadenblog said:
    Unless EPD Tokyo is making a 3D game instead of a 2D one.
    Click to expand...

    Zero chance whatsoever that EPD Tokyo is making one unless Nintendo has lost their minds, lol

    Let's go as optimistic as possible with dev times.

    Let's say EPD's 3D Donkey Kong launches Holiday 2023.

    Let's say the next 3D Mario takes four years to develop.

    So now we're looking at literally the earliest possible time for a new 3D Mario as late 2027.

    Considering that the next 3D Zelda won't launch until 2029, that seems absurd to do. Is Nintendo really willing to go until late 2027 until the Switch 2 has a 3D Mario or a 3D Zelda? And it probably would be more realistically late 2028! Nintendo is even out of 3D Mario games to port with only 3D Land and Galaxy 2 not being available for Switch.
     
    Just as a side note, how much effort do you think EPD Tokyo might be putting into this new game? Especially if this game is just another DK platformer in the same vein as Returns and Tropical Freeze that EPD Tokyo made because Retro's busy with Prime 4?
     
    Arcadenblog said:
    Just as a side note, how much effort do you think EPD Tokyo might be putting into this new game? Especially if this game is just another DK platformer in the same vein as Returns and Tropical Freeze that EPD Tokyo made because Retro's busy with Prime 4?
    Click to expand...
    What do you mean by "effort?"
     
    Mekanos said:
    What do you mean by "effort?"
    Click to expand...
    • If it'll have the same level of polish as Tropical Freeze, if not more.
    • If it might feature some new ground-breaking mechanics or aesthetics for the franchise.
    • If it'll justify EPD Tokyo taking time off from working on 3D Mario to make a 2.5D game
     
    Arcadenblog said:
    • If it'll have the same level of polish as Tropical Freeze, if not more.
    • If it might feature some new ground-breaking mechanics or aesthetics for the franchise.
    • If it'll justify EPD Tokyo taking time off from working on 3D Mario to make a 2.5D game
    Click to expand...
    Honestly if EPD Tokyo is making a DK game I don't think it will be a slavish reproduction of the Retro style. It'll probably be its own thing.
     
    I can confirm I heard murmurs of this game back since 2019 but I have no idea as to its veracity. I hope it's true!
     
    Mekanos said:
    Honestly if EPD Tokyo is making a DK game I don't think it will be a slavish reproduction of the Retro style. It'll probably be its own thing.
    Click to expand...
    I wonder how they could really evolve the formula if the game really is a 2D platformer. People have come to expect certain stuff from the DK games of that genre. But we’ll see, I guess, you can’t be pessimistic with an in-house Nintendo game.

    (Speaking of which, I wonder if we’ll see Mario vs Donkey Kong on this gen)
     
    The person I trust the most in this whole DK saga is Nate. He is the most reliable guy out there imo.

    Which speaking of… could we get a tiny tease of the EPD Donkey Kong game, pretty please👀 @NateDrake
     
    ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
    Zero chance whatsoever that EPD Tokyo is making one unless Nintendo has lost their minds, lol

    Let's go as optimistic as possible with dev times.

    Let's say EPD's 3D Donkey Kong launches Holiday 2023.

    Let's say the next 3D Mario takes four years to develop.
    Click to expand...
    We know EPD Tokyo is/was working both on a 2D and a 3D project (with EPD10, the 2D Mario Team, also working on a 2D project).
    Party Sklar said:
    I wonder how they could really evolve the formula if the game really is a 2D platformer. People have come to expect certain stuff from the DK games of that genre. But we’ll see, I guess, you can’t be pessimistic with an in-house Nintendo game.

    (Speaking of which, I wonder if we’ll see Mario vs Donkey Kong on this gen)
    Click to expand...
    Jungle Beat, also by the Tokyo team, was already a unique take on 2D platforms. Very arcade-y, felt almost like a game SEGA could have made in their glory days. The only problem with Jungle Beat was its cast of characters, which were... very bland (though the little monkeys were cute). Diddy was sorely missing. But of course, nowadays Diddy, Cranky, Dixie, and probably Funky would certainly appear.
     
    Really hope this and the F-Zero rumors are true.
     
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    Even if some people don't believe in 2D DK, EPD Tokyo is working on a 2D game that's a fact from hirings, their 3D Game (also from hirings) is a 3D Mario.

    EPD10 also had a hiring for 2D project (yeah, 2D Mario).

    The EPD Tokyo 2D game literally is a Donkey Kong game even if you want to believe it or not. It could be a new IP, but the fact that so many trusted sources are talking about DK is pretty telling.
     
    2019?
  • Index
    • It actually started in the Nintendo Direct Threads, us Nintendo Direct Thread folks heard about it since 2019.

    It started in those threads, being passed off as a prediction at first. "Wouldn't it be cool if Nintendo EPD was making a DK game ahah, maybe by younger devs that grew up with Donkey Kong Country, wouldn't it be crazy ahah"

    Then DK Vine made that rumor more public in late 2020, and then Nintendo Life and Nate said they have heard the same a few months later.

    Since then, nothing much.
     
  • Index
    • You all should listen to Nate's podcast. He said that he wouldn"t be surprised if it was announced this year (not necessarily releasing this year).
     
    Don't think they will release it until the DK area of Universal Studios is ready.

    When Super Nintendo World opened in Japan Nintendo released Super Mario 3D World for Switch right alongside it and clearly it has the same aesthetic as the theme park.
     
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    I can't remember who said it but an insider said there was a canceled Donkey Kong game and one in development but one is 2d and the other 3d and no one seems to know which one was canceled so that's why you hear 3d and 3d from different people.
     
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    MaitreWakou said:
    It actually started in the Nintendo Direct Threads, us Nintendo Direct Thread folks heard about it since 2019.

    It started in those threads, being passed off as a prediction at first. "Wouldn't it be cool if Nintendo EPD was making a DK game ahah, maybe by younger devs that grew up with Donkey Kong Country, wouldn't it be crazy ahah"

    Then DK Vine made that rumor more public in late 2020, and then Nintendo Life and Nate said they have heard the same a few months later.

    Since then, nothing much.
    Click to expand...
    Very interesting, thank you for sharing!
     
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    It isn’t a little oversimplified saying “yound devs who played DKC in their childhood”. I mean, we are talking about games that are +25 years, so lets say you played when you were 10 years old (so now you are around 35) and enter at Nintendo after you have graduated from university (lets say 25), so you would have around 10 years of experience, you are a full senior developer…

    Maybe my perception of someone young is a little different, but I’m curious how does that comment of “young devs” come from, did they do a survey asking the age of people at EPD Tokyo?
     
    Mekanos said:
    I would just want the Kremlings to appear in a new DK game so we can put this nonsense to bed that DK needs a new set of baddies every game.
    Click to expand...

    I don't think it needs to be every game, but I like the idea of DK bringing in new characters/villains in general.
     
    Arcadenblog said:
    Unless EPD Tokyo is making a 3D game instead of a 2D one.
    Click to expand...
    Doubtful, to say the least. They hired for a 3D and a 2D project, so a 3D DK would be odd but not out of the question––if it weren't for the fact that EPD 10 apparently also put out a hiring call for a 2D action game around the same time. If DK is the 3D project, that would mean the 2D project is either a 2D Mario game or something else entirely, and neither makes much market sense for EPD Tokyo to make. If EPD 10 is already making a 2D Mario, there's no point in EPD Tokyo making one too, and I'm not entirely sure a new platformer IP or something in that vein could make it in today's market (but hey, you never know).

    Really, the nail in the coffin for a 3D DK game IMO is the fact that 3D Mario is nowhere to be seen post-Odyssey and Bowser's Fury. 3D Mario is almost certainly the more lucrative project for Nintendo over something that might dredge up uncomfortable memories of DK64, and with the next-gen Zelda unlikely to release until much later in the decade they're going to need a 3D Mario if they want to retain software momentum for their next console. Common sense dictates their 3D project is a new Mario, so by process of elimination DK is the logical choice for their other, 2D project. That's about what it amounts to, really, IMO.
     
    Mekanos said:
    when we are only getting one DK game a decade, it’s hard for me to agree lol
    Click to expand...

    2-3 games a decade could definitely be the best of both worlds, where there's a mix of returning characters and new characters.
     
    codacious said:
    2-3 games a decade could definitely be the best of both worlds, where there's a mix of returning characters and new characters.
    Click to expand...
    Maybe if we were getting that kind of consistency.

    But at this point, I either want a) the Kremlings back, with K. Rool as the main baddie, or b) new baddies, but K. Rool is now the newest member of DK's team and so is now also a playable character.

    Either way is fine, it's just that K. Rool has more than "earned" to reap the rewards of his return tour.
     
    TreIII said:
    Maybe if we were getting that kind of consistency.

    But at this point, I either want a) the Kremlings back, with K. Rool as the main baddie, or b) new baddies, but K. Rool is now the newest member of DK's team and so is now also a playable character.

    Either way is fine, it's just that K. Rool has more than "earned" to reap the rewards of his return tour.
    Click to expand...
    “A” should be what they do in the first game and then “B” for the game after that. Re-establish K. Rool first by putting him in his usual role and then subvert it.
     
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    TreIII said:
    Maybe if we were getting that kind of consistency.

    But at this point, I either want a) the Kremlings back, with K. Rool as the main baddie, or b) new baddies, but K. Rool is now the newest member of DK's team and so is now also a playable character.

    Either way is fine, it's just that K. Rool has more than "earned" to reap the rewards of his return tour.
    Click to expand...

    Option B of those would actually be really cool to me.

    I'd like them to keep experimenting with new villains, but after so long without K Rool/the Kremlings I can understand people who'd want option A also.
     
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    LoneRanger said:
    It isn’t a little oversimplified saying “yound devs who played DKC in their childhood”. I mean, we are talking about games that are +25 years, so lets say you played when you were 10 years old (so now you are around 35) and enter at Nintendo after you have graduated from university (lets say 25), so you would have around 10 years of experience, you are a full senior developer…

    Maybe my perception of someone young is a little different, but I’m curious how does that comment of “young devs” come from, did they do a survey asking the age of people at EPD Tokyo?
    Click to expand...

    From what I understand, ages can really be funky with Nintendo devs. It seems like it's not a matter of just your birth but also your time in the company? Like, if you were contemporary with the DK devs, you don't feel the attachment or desire to use the parts of the IP more specific towards them because it feels like you're treading on another dev's direction.

    Hence why it took ages for Nintendo post-buyout to utilize Rare characters outside of the odd spin-offs.

    But now, there's enough distance from that whole situation and such and such.

    This is just my understanding of all the information I've seen. And who knows how off I'm being here. So anyone please tell me how off base I am.
     
    Mer.Saloon said:
    From what I understand, ages can really be funky with Nintendo devs. It seems like it's not a matter of just your birth but also your time in the company? Like, if you were contemporary with the DK devs, you don't feel the attachment or desire to use the parts of the IP more specific towards them because it feels like you're treading on another dev's direction.

    Hence why it took ages for Nintendo post-buyout to utilize Rare characters outside of the odd spin-offs.

    But now, there's enough distance from that whole situation and such and such.

    This is just my understanding of all the information I've seen. And who knows how off I'm being here. So anyone please tell me how off base I am.
    Click to expand...
    Anedoctically, in the mid-00s it looked like Disney would produce sequels of Pixar movies without consulting the original creators (but they then ended up buying Pixar). The former head of Pixar said that "It's like you have these dear children and you have to give them up to be adopted by convicted child molesters."

    The tone might be a bit hyperbolic, but the message is clear. I think internally the Nintendo devs feel the same, so they are wary of stepping into each others' shoes and not too keen to use other studios' creations.

    For Donkey Kong, I think the series had a sort of identity crisis after the buyout. Nintendo didn't know what to do. The PAON games and Donkey Kong were spin-offs of a series no longer existing. Mario vs. Donkey Kong went back to the 1994 Game Boy Donkey Kong game as if the Country series never happen. Jungle Beat was an incredible game, but by refusing to include Diddy or Rambi, it threw the baby out with the bath water. These are three contradictory approaches, and we also had the GBA Rare remakes.

    With Country Returns, I think Nintendo & Retro succeeded where Jungle Beat failed, creating a new, fresh take on DK, yet incorporating some key Rare creations. Since then, Nintendo has become more open to using DK and its characters -- Diddy even appeared in a recent company guidebook.

    Csrartwork.jpg

    Lead_bg.png
     
    Gingerbread Man said:
    With Country Returns, I think Nintendo & Retro succeeded where Jungle Beat failed, creating a new, fresh take on DK, yet incorporating some key Rare creations. Since then, Nintendo has become more open to using DK and its characters -- Diddy even appeared in a recent company guidebook.
    Click to expand...

    Yeah, I've seen a lot of people talk about how DKCR disregarded K Rool/the Kremlings, but overall I feel like the game was made with a lot of love for the original Rare trilogy.
     
    MMXZero said:
    I first saw Zippo mention it on Era. That is why I never cared about the rumors.
    Click to expand...
    Zippo vouching for DK so strongly is part of the reason why I’m still a bit skeptical of the rumours. That said, it seems like a lot of other, more reliable people have backed up A.) it being DK B.) it being a 2D game, so I’m less inclined to write it off.
     
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    AoiHana said:
    Zippo vouching for DK so strongly is part of the reason why I’m still a bit skeptical of the rumours. That said, it seems like a lot of other, more reliable people have backed up A.) it being DK B.) it being a 2D game, so I’m less inclined to write it off.
    Click to expand...
    Didn't he correctly predict Metroid 5 and Super Mario Party 2 would get announced in the summer direct of 2021, or were those just accurate guesses?
     
    KarmaDesires said:
    Didn't he correctly predict Metroid 5 and Super Mario Party 2 would get announced in the summer direct of 2021, or were those just accurate guesses?
    Click to expand...
    Dunno about Mario Party but I'm pretty sure Metroid V had been rumored for a while up to that point (and was a pretty reasonable guess given that MercurySteam hadn't announced or released any games since 2017).
     
    Last edited:
    MMXZero said:
    I first saw Zippo mention it on Era. That is why I never cared about the rumors.
    Click to expand...
    I came here to ironically post “idk probably Zippo” but ya beat me to it

    Honestly, DK is another series I’ve been 50/50 on. I’ve played a few games, enjoyed them. But I’d happily pick it up if the game looks decent. Not the biggest fan of 2D platformers in general, so I hope there’s some more to it, like a bump up from TFs 2.5D
     
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