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StarTopic The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom |ST| Linkin' Parts (Please Tag All Spoilers)
- Thread starter WestEgg
- Start date
This would explain how Beedle manages to conveniently pop up in every stableNew album just dropped.
Prophet64
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- They/Them
175 hours in and I still haven't beat it. From a deliberate lack of trying and just doing what I want at a very relaxed pace. Just wanted to say I am so glad pro hud takes away all of it, hearts included unless hit. Also love that all these small characters all have names. Can't remember if BOTW did that too, but I was struck with that early on and just really like that aspect of this game.
It did! In fact a lot of NPCs are reoccurring. Pretty cool to see where life has taken some of them. Hoz was promoted from being a common soldier to squadron leader, flower lady has mellowed out, Manny unfortunately is crushing on someone else because his previous crush got married, etc.
Edengamer23
Like Like
Enemy variety yeah isnt as good as it could be, though still cool. I find the enemy camps in general more fun than BOTW, with those boss bokoblins. Down in the depths they could have used more variety though. Also are there any huge camps down there as I havent found many?
The Gleeoks are really cool and one of my favorite additions, but I still have been scared to face one over 100 hours in lol.
The Gleeoks are really cool and one of my favorite additions, but I still have been scared to face one over 100 hours in lol.
One thing I would have changed about those Boss Bokoblin counts is, well, the layout of their base. There’s not a lot of them so it’s not as tiring, but they do feel copy-and-paste. Even adding Zonai contraptions would have helped a lot.
Overall though, I do agree raiding enemy camps is more fun than in BotW, though I’d largely attribute it to more to Link’s TotK skillset and options. Zonai gadgets, sages, muddle buds and stuff really make experimenting with combat fun.
Nothing as big as a Boss Bokoblin camp, though they compensate with generally stronger enemies. Would be hard to find red varieties down there.
fourfourfun
Le bébé
I'd like to challenge this postition!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I honestly only sorta agree on the Rito dungeon with you, which I found pretty tedious to clear but the boss fight was pretty cool (even if it was a bit of an annoying fight for me).
Loved the buildup to the Goron Dungeon, diving into the depths straight from Mt Doom, just after piloting a glider to kill some dragon thing was pretty epic. Also I just thought the whole tour through Goron Village was fun. Also thought the dungeon was the most complex so far (haven't gotten to Gerudo yet), as the whole minecart stuff definitely required some spatial thinking... except if you're too dumb like me and just kinda cheese it but that's fun too. The bossfight was a bit on the weaker side but I think I enjoyed the fight more than Rito (though that one felt more "epic")
Zora dungeon has been my favourite so far, really enjoyed the water puzzles and the buildup within Zora village. Also was just nice to see Sidon again
I didn't mind the boss all that much, it was kinda gimmicky and Sidon's ability kinda sucks but nothing that can't be solved with water fruit arrows or one or two hydrant zonai devices xD
Overall, all the dungeons felt like a huge step up from the Divine Beasts which basically all had the same gimmick and featured a recoloured version of the same boss.
Zora dungeon has been my favourite so far, really enjoyed the water puzzles and the buildup within Zora village. Also was just nice to see Sidon again
I didn't mind the boss all that much, it was kinda gimmicky and Sidon's ability kinda sucks but nothing that can't be solved with water fruit arrows or one or two hydrant zonai devices xDOverall, all the dungeons felt like a huge step up from the Divine Beasts which basically all had the same gimmick and featured a recoloured version of the same boss.
D
Deleted member 2181
Guest
So, in general, the lead-up to all of the dungeons is great. They had the same idea in Breath of the Wild, but I think they're more evenly executed here. So I won't be talking about that anymore, I want to talk about the dungeons specifically.
I'm not as keen as most people seem to be about Zelda dungeons in general. I find them kind of tedious. I really liked the Divine Beasts in Breath of the Wild, but felt their execution was uneven. Naboris was probably my favourite Zelda dungeon period, very clever design. In contrast, the Rito dungeon was, basically, nothing.
The dungeons in Tears of the Kingdom... have the exact same format as the beasts in Breath of the Wild. I find the talk about them being dramatically better in that sense to be really confusing. It's the same thing. The one that I did find to be dramatically better was the Goron one. I really really love the Goron one. But I think that's because I did it "properly", meaning that I progressed in a linear fashion from terminal to terminal, using the minecart system. This truly felt like an old Zelda dungeon in an open-air format, because there was like, a narrative to it almost. But it seems most people just climb everywhere or use Zonai devices, so, like, idk.
Here's the thing though. I feel there was no reason for the dungeons to have the same structure as the beasts. That was a format that was created for Breath of the Wild and made sense in that game. That entire game is about going to four different points in any way you please, right? Tears of the Kingdom already makes major concessions towards linearity. The caves are largely linear. The shrines are frequently three-room gauntlets that you progress sequentially. If it was just one dungeon that had the "activate the four/five thingies", then, cool. But all of them? Really? Why though??
And that samey progression is made worse because I feel the manner you traverse them isn't as dramatically different either. Like even though Ruta and Naboris have the same progression structure, they feel very different because of their central gimmick. But the non-Goron dungeons in Tears of the Kingdom felt the same.
Which is interesting when compared to how other people describe these things. I think the theming really does go a long way for people, but it turns out to be something I don't care about at all.
Although to bring up the Goron one again.. That one did have a more eerie atmosphere which I appreciated.
I'm not as keen as most people seem to be about Zelda dungeons in general. I find them kind of tedious. I really liked the Divine Beasts in Breath of the Wild, but felt their execution was uneven. Naboris was probably my favourite Zelda dungeon period, very clever design. In contrast, the Rito dungeon was, basically, nothing.
The dungeons in Tears of the Kingdom... have the exact same format as the beasts in Breath of the Wild. I find the talk about them being dramatically better in that sense to be really confusing. It's the same thing. The one that I did find to be dramatically better was the Goron one. I really really love the Goron one. But I think that's because I did it "properly", meaning that I progressed in a linear fashion from terminal to terminal, using the minecart system. This truly felt like an old Zelda dungeon in an open-air format, because there was like, a narrative to it almost. But it seems most people just climb everywhere or use Zonai devices, so, like, idk.
Here's the thing though. I feel there was no reason for the dungeons to have the same structure as the beasts. That was a format that was created for Breath of the Wild and made sense in that game. That entire game is about going to four different points in any way you please, right? Tears of the Kingdom already makes major concessions towards linearity. The caves are largely linear. The shrines are frequently three-room gauntlets that you progress sequentially. If it was just one dungeon that had the "activate the four/five thingies", then, cool. But all of them? Really? Why though??
And that samey progression is made worse because I feel the manner you traverse them isn't as dramatically different either. Like even though Ruta and Naboris have the same progression structure, they feel very different because of their central gimmick. But the non-Goron dungeons in Tears of the Kingdom felt the same.
Which is interesting when compared to how other people describe these things. I think the theming really does go a long way for people, but it turns out to be something I don't care about at all.
Although to bring up the Goron one again.. That one did have a more eerie atmosphere which I appreciated.
My take on dungeons:
I never really minded the Divine Beasts sharing the same layout and aesthetics. For me their only real weakness was the bosses. TotK delivered much better dungeon bosses, both in terms of creativity and difficulty. And again, I didn't mind that the dungeons had a similar structure where you have to go activate five things. I find all of them markedly different, and I tackled each one in distinct ways. I think the Zelda team hit a nice balance between linearity and openness. The last thing I want is for dungeons to become overly linear, which I feel hurts the point of the game. I had the same reservations for, say, RDR2's mission design.
I never really minded the Divine Beasts sharing the same layout and aesthetics. For me their only real weakness was the bosses. TotK delivered much better dungeon bosses, both in terms of creativity and difficulty. And again, I didn't mind that the dungeons had a similar structure where you have to go activate five things. I find all of them markedly different, and I tackled each one in distinct ways. I think the Zelda team hit a nice balance between linearity and openness. The last thing I want is for dungeons to become overly linear, which I feel hurts the point of the game. I had the same reservations for, say, RDR2's mission design.
balgajo
Koopa
I also feel like this. While I love old dungeons I don't want them to necessarily repeat old 3d Zelda formats(I love botw hyrule castle for example). But copying the same structure of botw dungeons was too much for me. No reason for doing that.
To be honest I'm not fan of the dungeons lead up at all. Most of times you were just following the arrow on each new goal. You reach the dungeon in a very linear way and the dungeon is pretty open. My favorite approach would be quite the contrary. A very open way to reach the dungeon and dungeons with a more tight design.
To be honest I'm not fan of the dungeons lead up at all. Most of times you were just following the arrow on each new goal. You reach the dungeon in a very linear way and the dungeon is pretty open. My favorite approach would be quite the contrary. A very open way to reach the dungeon and dungeons with a more tight design.
LegendHero
Tektite
I'm not trying to say BotW and TotK are the end-all, be-all of everything in Zelda, obviously every Zelda game has it's strengths and weaknesses, but I think the degree to which the dungeons are diminished compared to previous games is massively overstated. The dungeons of some previous games are bigger in the sense of needing to walk more, but neither the puzzles nor the bosses were actually more difficult than the ones in BotW or TotK. That's not to say the more linear and ponderous pacing of older dungeons is a bad thing, I think it has it's benefits, but I don't find them more difficult at all in puzzles or bosses.
Honestly, yeah. Even with BotW I disagreed with the notion that the dungeons had been massively downgraded.
LegendHero
Tektite
Yeah. The fact that the shrines and divine beasts were aesthetically similar and so are the phantom Ganons is a reasonable complaint, but Zelda bosses have always been easy(even in the NES games I find that fighting the bosses is mostly a problem if you've used a lot of your resources in the dungeon itself, rather than the bosses themselves being incredibly challenging) and the puzzles aren't really simpler either, it's more that navigating the dungeon is easier and takes less time. Which again, for pacing reasons I can understand the complaint, and I guess some people like Game Maker's Toolkit think navigating the dungeon is actually more important than the puzzles or combat. But the way the people who hate on the open air games talk about it, you'd think the games have been dumbed down, which just isn't the case.
The dungeons in the open-air games also still have great music, and the divine beasts don't feel exactly the same even if architecturally they are, because each one operates differently and is in a different place. Flying high in the sky in Vah Medoh isn't the same as crawling around Vah Rudania in the crater of Death Mountain. I'm glad they did more to differentiate them in Tears of the Kingdom, but there's more aesthetic value to the divine beasts than some people are willing to admit.
browneyes84
Moblin
Can someone help me with a potential sequence break in the Gerudo area?
So I got to the Kara Kara bazaar, did a side mission there, then headed towards Gerudo Town, on the way I got side tracked and found Riju trying to use her lightning power on test dummies. It felt weird to just stumble on her like this before reaching Gerudo Town, but I spoke to her and ended up defending the bazaar from some Gibdos. Did I miss something earlier? I looked online and a guide seemed to suggest I missed a big chunk of the main Gerudo quest at the Town itself and underground??
Gerudo spoilers: I don’t think you’d be locked out of anything significant, there’s basically just an alternate underground route to the ruins where Riju was training. I’m more curious how that affects the sidequest, honestly.
Apopheniac
Monolith Soft action game truther
- Pronouns
- he/him/his
They would've told you at Gerudo Town to go find Riju. You still need to go to Gerudo Town anyway to continue that quest line.
browneyes84
Moblin
I might load an earlier save and head to Gerudo Town before running into Riju
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Holy shit, I did that cave after I beat the Gerudo storyline and I’m just now realizing that I was probably “intended” to do it to wind up at Riju lol.
Instead I just warped to the top of the town and paraglided over to her lol.
No wonder I felt the Gerudo lead up was disappointing, I missed a whole puzzle cave in it
Instead I just warped to the top of the town and paraglided over to her lol.
No wonder I felt the Gerudo lead up was disappointing, I missed a whole puzzle cave in it
Hmm well you could do that, would be interesting to see the differences
I was thinking about doing the same but (Gerudo spoilers) I wanted to explore the cave hahaha.
merp
Manakete
- Pronouns
- He/him
You sound like a Zelda YouTuber now.
Stilt Village
GBA
I don't think this was ever the complaint, it was always about them being short and underwhelming in comparison rather than too easy. The old 3D Zeldas were very easy games. Though BotW/TotK dungeons are also "simpler" in that part of them being smaller is mostly due to cutting out entire aspects of previous Zelda dungeons, like how there's barely any combat, and they can't really build on the same idea over time like the dungeons from the later Zeldas due to their nonlinear structure. This doesn't necessarily mean "easier", I think the finicky and unguided/unpredictable nature of the open air/chemistry puzzles often makes up for any lost complexity in terms of puzzle difficulty, and (some of) the bosses are far more dangerous than anything in a previous 3D Zelda game.
I have to say though, they vary in size and structure quite a bit in TotK, which makes them feel lacking in a confident direction similar to the kingdoms in Odyssey. But I thought the smallest one (water) was actually the most fun, because it was focused entirely on interesting puzzles and didn't bother with watered down navigation at all. The one that most resembled a traditional Zelda dungeon (lightning) I found compared really poorly to similar dungeons from past games.
Peleo
Boo
- Pronouns
- He / Him / His
Are they an example of a good or bad variety?
D
Deleted member 4720
Guest
The likelikes and gleeoks you mean? I would say good. I am not sure actually the extant to which they work with the chemistry system (can they be put to sleep) but i felt with botw, the main enemy types were rather similar in bring a sort of humanoid creature. I would like to see more environmental enemies like the likelikes. I certainly am not a zelda enemy directory, so maybe i imagine something like a thorn bush that snaps closed when link walks over it, or maybe a stone enemy that congeals around links feet and make his movement sluggish. I would say they are going in the right direction, and a lot of the chemistry interactions with likelikes (havent experimented with the gleeoks much) feel useful and like they reward the player's cleverness
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So I was taking my deliberately meandering route around Hyrule, not intending to progress the main quest any further, just knocking off the handful of shrines I'd previously missed, when I accidentally progressed things.
I was trotting through Kakariko Village with my horse on autopilot, just letting a friend see the world, when I noticed a quest market above Tauro's head. Of course, dozens of hours ago, I'd passed through the village and realised I couldn't visit the floating ruin that was cordoned off. Guess I'll be checking that out tomorrow.
I'm working on my TotK pick-up lines with my wife.
"Hey, just call me President Hudson, cause you help me stand proudly and firmly"
"Hey babe, are you Hestu? Cause let the expansion begin"
Not much success.
"Hey, just call me President Hudson, cause you help me stand proudly and firmly"
"Hey babe, are you Hestu? Cause let the expansion begin"
Not much success.
"Do you have enough stamina to handle the Master Sword?"
Huh, interesting, I thought the water dungeon was the weakest and the lightning dungeon was the strongest.
LegendHero
Tektite
That's the thing, I don't think the previous dungeons really did build on the same idea over time in the way you're suggesting. At least, not anymore than how Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom do between dungeons and shrines/caves. I really can't think of too many times in previous Zeldas where you realized an item could be used in a way that was different than you initially assumed, besides the Iron Boots being magnetized in Twilight Princess and a few other scattered instances. Usually once you acquire the item you kinda know how it's going to be used throughout the game, which is why I actually find myself more impressed with the physics and chemistry systems of the new games and the abilities you acquire in them. I found myself surprised at how those could be utilized for some time.
D
Deleted member 2181
Guest
One old school Zelda thing I really like about Tears of the a Kingdom is that you'll occasionally come across something that you have no idea how to solve. Like a locked door that doesn't open. And the clue is in some hidden book halfway across the map. Feels good.
And I love that it's not item-gated. It's knowledge-gated. I think this is something they can really expand on. Might be a good way to "gate" story beats in an open world without restricting freedom, for example. They do sort of do this in the sense that you don't initially know where the final boss is or how to get there.
It could also be used to let us skip the godamn tutorial if we want to!
And I love that it's not item-gated. It's knowledge-gated. I think this is something they can really expand on. Might be a good way to "gate" story beats in an open world without restricting freedom, for example. They do sort of do this in the sense that you don't initially know where the final boss is or how to get there.
It could also be used to let us skip the godamn tutorial if we want to!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, the
water temple
Stilt Village
GBA
I'm not referring to item use, which did get revolutionized (or, well, it would be, if we still had items I guess). I'm talking about how say, Forbidden Woods introduces the idea of needing to take out these eyeball vines blocking a door by throwing a big nut at them. Then it introduces platforms you move by using the deku leaf on fans. Then you need to use those platforms to get the nut to the door. And as the dungeon goes on you have to keep doing this, finding more and more ways to take out the vines with the different tools available, often crossing over with mechanics used in other puzzles. Earlier Zelda games would kind of just fill a lot of the rooms with random puzzles, but from Wind Waker on this sort of design became a focal point, although Wind Waker itself generally wasn't fantastic at it.
TotK does often like to have a bunch of puzzles with the same mechanic in the same general area, like how mirror puzzles are associated with the Gerudo region, but the main difference is that it tends to shy away from developing them in difficulty or complexity because it's almost never able to guarantee that this isn't the first time a player has seen this mechanic. You can have a shrine about using cars to cross lava flows and a shrine about using hydrants to cross lava flows, but you can't have a shrine bringing the two concepts together and combining them, because then it could be the first one you play between the three. This leads to most mechanics in the game feeling like they never get pushed very far in what they can do, despite often being capable of doing a much greater variety of things than mechanics in previous Zeldas.
A big reason I found the Lightning Temple underwhelming is that it uses the mirror mechanic just like Spirit Temple or WW Earth Temple, but it makes the weakest use of it since OoT. At its most involved, you're never manually placing more than one mirror, and never reflecting light off more than two or three total I think. And they barely touched on using the light against enemies. After each previous game to use this mechanic (OoT, MM, WW) did progressively more with it, this was a straight regression, and it was mechanically worse because of how finicky placing the mirrors just right could be. I am aware of at least one place in the game with a more involved mirror puzzle than any in the dungeon though, and I'm not sure how to feel about that.
balgajo
Koopa
I liked those moments too!
Jahranimo
Bounty Hunter
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Started playing this again and now I'm back on the shrine hunt. I think I have almost every one on the surface but a few more.
Then it's to the skies I go!
Edit: I underestimated how many I missed on the surface and...overestimated how many are in the sky?
Then it's to the skies I go!
Edit: I underestimated how many I missed on the surface and...overestimated how many are in the sky?
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This game is crazy, yesterday I just wanted to explore the shores at the south and, apart of finding a dozen of Koroks, I got a special helmet, helped the Monster Hunting Squad against some pirates, found a shrine quest involving a special horse...Gameplay is incredibly varied: Sometimes I'm using a vehicle to move around or take a Korok somewhere, other times I'm shield-surfing, or using rockets or bombs to climb, or fighting (apart of the Monster Squad fight I also found 2xHinox, 1 Lynel and 1 electric Gleeok), or carefully scanning the surroundings for a Korok, solving a Korok puzzle, finding a hidden cave (I found one that you have to enter from below!)...The highlight yesterday was accompaning Farosh on a trip through the Depths: I got on just as it was going below and stayed with it until it resurfaced again (BTW, this made my abandoned horse despawn so I had to go get it from a stable again, I didn't know this could happen).
This is the game of the forever!
This is the game of the forever!
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juuso
Koopa
As far as I can tell, I'm missing just two shrines (or 6, but probably not 10). I know the location for one of them, but the other one I have no clue about. I feel like I've done like a dozen Rauru's Blessings back to back, as the shrines that I haven't yet found are the ones that are more difficult to find in general, and they just tend to be Rauru's Blessings. I like the shrines a lot in this game so it's a bit disappointing, but I understand that finding the shrine itself is the puzzle for them.
I think I'll find the remainings shrines and then head for the final boss. I'm sure I'll get distracted by a million other things along the way, but I'm at least not motivated to start finding all the caves, wells or anything like that. I'm slightly put off by the game telling you how many of them there are, as to me there are too many in the same way as there are too many Korok seeds, and I just kind of wish I didn't even know.
I think I'll find the remainings shrines and then head for the final boss. I'm sure I'll get distracted by a million other things along the way, but I'm at least not motivated to start finding all the caves, wells or anything like that. I'm slightly put off by the game telling you how many of them there are, as to me there are too many in the same way as there are too many Korok seeds, and I just kind of wish I didn't even know.
futurehawk
Boo
Yes i liked more the buildup rather than the dungeon itself.I honestly only sorta agree on the Rito dungeon with you, which I found pretty tedious to clear but the boss fight was pretty cool (even if it was a bit of an annoying fight for me).
Loved the buildup to the Goron Dungeon, diving into the depths straight from Mt Doom, just after piloting a glider to kill some dragon thing was pretty epic. Also I just thought the whole tour through Goron Village was fun. Also thought the dungeon was the most complex so far (haven't gotten to Gerudo yet), as the whole minecart stuff definitely required some spatial thinking... except if you're too dumb like me and just kinda cheese it but that's fun too. The bossfight was a bit on the weaker side but I think I enjoyed the fight more than Rito (though that one felt more "epic")
Zora dungeon has been my favourite so far, really enjoyed the water puzzles and the buildup within Zora village. Also was just nice to see Sidon again
Overall, all the dungeons felt like a huge step up from the Divine Beasts which basically all had the same gimmick and featured a recoloured version of the same boss.
And Rito buildup was amazing absolutely
Next and final step is Gerudo for me
This game is endless fun!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
On the topic of dungeons, agreeing with the general consensus of which is the weakest and the strongest, the thing I was wishing time and time again, and that I think would have make them seem way better, is that, after doing the "activate four things", instead of going to the final boss, to unlock a second part of the dungeon which would eventually lead to the boss. That way, not only the dungeons would be bigger and have more puzzles, but they could efectively expect you to have prior knowledge of the thematic puzzles and, as so, make harder variants of them - the classic permutations old school dungeons did because they were linear but open air can't because they can't presume prior knowledge. A second part doesn't have to be as big or time-consuming as the first one, but just offer two or three puzzles - but I think that would provide a bigger sensation of scale and enjoyment.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh my.
You can use the Master Sword to play tennis with Ganon?! How didn't I thought of it?
Wait what
- Pronouns
- He/Him
browneyes84
Moblin
Having a ton of fun in the Gerudo questline, everything about it is great, so far at least. The hero power you get to use is very cool.
Really loving the build up to all these dungeons. I think the dungeons themselves could still be improved a lot, but the lead up to them has been excellent. I love how they've all been pretty different from each other in terms of what you're doing.
Really loving the build up to all these dungeons. I think the dungeons themselves could still be improved a lot, but the lead up to them has been excellent. I love how they've all been pretty different from each other in terms of what you're doing.
This really is the sequel to BotW, there's always stuff you don't know
Christo750
Source of the Right Arm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
yeah i agree with this. these games are flooded with resources and they need more resource drains, tbh. gleeoks depend on you draining your resources, and I still think TOTK could've used a few more of then. Dodongos with bomb flowers, digdoggers with shields, Manhandlas and Aquamentus with arrows, etc.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, gang, I'm exploring the Depths beneath Faron and
I've just activated a lightroot and noticed a deeply suspicious structure on the map. It doesn't look like a mine or boss arena or colosseum; am I right to suspect this could be connected to the Fifth Sage? If so, I'd rather avoid it and do things 'in order'. I've passed through Kakariko so I know that Tauro is waiting for me in Faron at the Skyview Tower, and I also know there's still the thunderstorm above Faron to investigate. I'd rather do it all than mess things around.
Horror Kid
Bob-omb
Yeah, follow your gut feeling then.
- Pronouns
- He/him
You can do the Fifth Sage early, but you'll very much know you're doing it early. Finding a conspicuous structure in Depths will not on its own unlock the questline.
Giancarlo
Nintendo intulit risum in omnibus
diamonds not only sell pretty good in the game, but they are essencial for us to craft the Champions weapons in the game.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sure, but I've found a lot of them through ordinary play and exploration. Such a complex, involving questline could definitely stand to have a more unique reward.
