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Pre-Release The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Pre-Release Discussion Thread

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I feel like it doesn't have to be either/or. The Divine Beasts could have been fully fledged dungeons along with the shrines. It's not like there isn't precedent for a beloved Zelda game having only four main dungeons (though to be fair, Majora's Mask does sometimes catch a bit of flak for that). Even better, the Divine Beasts were optional (kind of), so you wouldn't even have had to do them if you don't like traditional dungeons.

Of course, there's the argument that the main reason we got 120 shrines was because they didn't have to put as much thought into the Divine Beasts as they would have had to with a more traditional dungeon. I don't know exactly how many shrines we would have to trade for a more traditional dungeon, but it's probably a lot. And less shrines means less stuff to discover, which would make the world feel emptier. Maybe the world would have had to be smaller, too...

I definitely want some traditional dungeons back, but it's interesting to think about this stuff because it kinda gives you a glimpse into the train of thought of the developers. The huge world is a big selling point, so we have to populate it with something. And if we need to make so many shrines, we don't have the resources left over to make proper dungeons. Everything is connected like that. It's pretty interesting.
 
brainchild said:
The original OST is absolutely brilliant. I love the classic Zelda themes but BOTW's felt mature and sophisticated. If that's not a real soundtrack then I don't know what is.

But I suspect you're referring to the way the soundtrack was implemented in the game. That's a scene direction issue, not a soundtrack issue. The actual tracks in the OST are excellent, even though you probably don't have as many opportunities as previous Zeldas to listen to the tracks in-game.
Click to expand...
Nail on the head. Consider this: every Divine Beast has unique music WITH additional layers per terminal unlock. Time between terminals is just a few minutes, and a Divine Beast is done and dusted within the hour. Not to mention the Attack on... tracks.


Shrines make up the bulk of dungeons in BotW, with the player spending hours upon hours there. Yet there's only one single music track for them all.

Made a video on the issue last year, and am sure they'll have it fixed for the sequel.
 
Clix said:
And finally, why would you get shit on for a BoTW defense thread? It’s pretty much highly regarded and had way more proponents for the shrines and durability and the loop than it does naysayers. Like I think it’s safe to say the game resonated with most, so not sure why you’d get shit on.
Click to expand...

Nickle said:
You might have gotten hate for a "defense of BotW" thread because it's one the most popular game of all time and got huge critical acclaim. It's like making a thread called "The Beatles are actually a really good band".
Click to expand...
I think it is out of date to say the game is so widely acclaimed. Still very acclaimed sure, but not to the exalted level of five years ago. There has been a definite reassessment since. For a game with such a hyperbolic reception, some of the cooling was natural, but I think it goes beyond that.

Pretty much everything about the game has been subject of criticism and not just from day 1 haters. Story, music, characters, dungeons, combat (especially durability), enemies, side quests, collectibles. What's left? Artstyle I suppose.
Why are the hopes/predictions discussions for the sequel like 90% "fix this thing in BOTW"? How can a game so apparently broken also be considered so great?

I really think the game's legacy will not be that strong. Just look at this recent discussion on changing perceptions. The game may have won over the crowd, but it's not holding it. At some point saying that the game really is that great will be the hot take. It's probably coming sooner than you think if BOTW2 does "fix" things.

I expect, rather appropriately I guess, it will have a legacy similar to the original. Important in that it redefined things, but ultimately in hindsight just a prototype for better games that built off it. "Tech demo" as said in the above link.

That's not my view of the game, but my assessment of where the wider mood towards the game is going.
 
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catonkatonk said:
I can't speak for that person, but I prefer the shrines, at least in theory.
Breath of the Wild's gameplay loop was so addictive because it was snappy. You were never doing the same thing for long. You could spend a hundred hours in Hyrule and the pace would never lag because every quest, every shrine/beast, every journey to any destination, every nugget of gameplay, everything, is shorter than 40 minutes at the high end.
In previous Zelda games, I'd be having the time of my life exploring the overworld, uncovering secrets, figuring out cryptic riddles, etc., and then suddenly I'm in a dungeon. And I have to navigate through a labyrinthine network of rooms, fighting scrub enemies and shooting eye-shaped switches for the next hour. And I better do it in that single sitting, because if I go away and come back, I'll never remember where I was or what I was doing.

I feel like the shrines had the strongest puzzle content in series history, and they did it without killing the pace the or demanding a time commitment. The divine beasts took my favourite Zelda dungeon elements (whole-dungeon puzzles like the Water Temple, which, actually, is my favourite traditional Zelda dungeon), and cut out the fat. Vah Naboris rules.
I like that there were few enemies there, too. Being assaulted by a bunch of fuckin bats while you're trying to push a block isn't enjoyable to me. Zelda enemies generally aren't challenging, they're just a waste of time.

Shrines did leave something to be desired in terms of theming and atmosphere, sure. And I think their clean design makes the solutions to puzzles a bit too obvious because there's no environmental redirects - IE, if there's a pool of water, it's important and you need to use that pool of water for something. But the theory behind them is rock solid. Finding a shrine was like finding a wonderful little treat, and that can only happen if there's 120 of them dotted around the landscape.
Now, if you take Breath of the Wild, and you add, like, more Divine Beast-sized "dungeons" that are themed to the environment and have unique music and all of that? I wouldn't object. But not a the expense of the shrines.
Click to expand...
I hate to say it.. but I kind of agree with this. However! I never want to see the shrine/beast theming again.
  • Give me a rainforest dungeon and "shrines" in Faron.
  • Give me a water dungeon and shrines in Lanayru.
  • Give me a desert dungeon and shrines in the desert.
  • Give me a fire/lava dungeon and shrines in Eldin.
  • Give me an ice dungeon in Hebra, etc etc.

Don't bore me with the same aesthetics throughout the game.
 
manfromthedam said:
Nail on the head. Consider this: every Divine Beast has unique music WITH additional layers per terminal unlock. Time between terminals is just a few minutes, and a Divine Beast is done and dusted within the hour. Not to mention the Attack on... tracks.


Shrines make up the bulk of dungeons in BotW, with the player spending hours upon hours there. Yet there's only one single music track for them all.

Made a video on the issue last year, and am sure they'll have it fixed for the sequel.
Click to expand...
Lekkere video pik
 
The "terminal" approach to dungeon design works fine as a substitute for a lack of item-based progression like you would see it older Zelda games. I really just think it comes down to expanding the size of the space you need to find them in. Imagine the terminal approach in something like the Lakebed Temple, it would be pretty good because that dungeon is so huge. As it is, the Divine Beast size makes all the terminals a bit too close together and makes the whole dungeon experience feel a bit cut-off.
 
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I pray every day that Zelda doesn't return back to traditional dungeons, even Elden Ring was so much worse when you started getting funnelled through archaically game-designed castles.

Just take Hyrule Castle from BotW and make that the standard for the others. They should feature lots of mysteries and puzzles, but otherwise be free to explore.
 
catonkatonk said:
I can't speak for that person, but I prefer the shrines, at least in theory.
Breath of the Wild's gameplay loop was so addictive because it was snappy. You were never doing the same thing for long. You could spend a hundred hours in Hyrule and the pace would never lag because every quest, every shrine/beast, every journey to any destination, every nugget of gameplay, everything, is shorter than 40 minutes at the high end.
In previous Zelda games, I'd be having the time of my life exploring the overworld, uncovering secrets, figuring out cryptic riddles, etc., and then suddenly I'm in a dungeon. And I have to navigate through a labyrinthine network of rooms, fighting scrub enemies and shooting eye-shaped switches for the next hour. And I better do it in that single sitting, because if I go away and come back, I'll never remember where I was or what I was doing.

I feel like the shrines had the strongest puzzle content in series history, and they did it without killing the pace the or demanding a time commitment. The divine beasts took my favourite Zelda dungeon elements (whole-dungeon puzzles like the Water Temple, which, actually, is my favourite traditional Zelda dungeon), and cut out the fat. Vah Naboris rules.
I like that there were few enemies there, too. Being assaulted by a bunch of fuckin bats while you're trying to push a block isn't enjoyable to me. Zelda enemies generally aren't challenging, they're just a waste of time.

Shrines did leave something to be desired in terms of theming and atmosphere, sure. And I think their clean design makes the solutions to puzzles a bit too obvious because there's no environmental redirects - IE, if there's a pool of water, it's important and you need to use that pool of water for something. But the theory behind them is rock solid. Finding a shrine was like finding a wonderful little treat, and that can only happen if there's 120 of them dotted around the landscape.
Now, if you take Breath of the Wild, and you add, like, more Divine Beast-sized "dungeons" that are themed to the environment and have unique music and all of that? I wouldn't object. But not a the expense of the shrines.
Click to expand...

OP said they couldn't speak for me but basically said almost word for word what I would have hahaha. Thank you, saved me time. I literally could not have explained it better.
 
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I understand the complains people have with Breath of the Wild, but I'll never relate to the fix being "go do the same thing the other twenty games did already".
Zelda doesn't need to be so constrained.

I'll put my cards on the table here and share my Next Gen "Dungeon" Idea:
You discover a small village nestled in the midst of mountains on all sides, next to a dried up lake. On the other side of a lake is a cave opening with a heart piece that you can't get to because the opening juts out and you can't climb upside down. The townfolks are having a bad time: The lake was their primary source of water. It was fed from a spring located within a mountain, but that spring has somehow been diverted to the other side of the mountain, flooding the farmland on the other side (to you, it was just a lake when you arrived). Some people have gone up to try and find out what's happening, but they've never returned.
The mountain itself is host to a complex, interconnected network of caves - some artificial, indicating a mining past - however there are multiple (as in, 10-15) entrances and exits, from the foot to the summit. You must get in there, find the source of the water, and redirect it. Blocking your way are various cave-ins that your bombs can't destroy. Luckily the miners left behind barrels of TNT. In carrying these, though, your mobility is limited and you can't defend yourself, so actually figuring out how to get the TNT to the target is a puzzle in itself. Upon finding the spring, you discover it's been rerouted by an artificially created channel with beams bearing an upside-down sheikah logo. You now have to find a way to use the physics system in the game to get the water where you want to go. You also have to use the water to turn gears and weigh down switches to open gates. The direction of the flow will affect the gears. There is a miniboss located somewhere here: A bioluminescent thing with thin tendrils and no sense of sight.
And there is a boss: A giant spider. However this spider isn't sitting in some room waiting for you to kill it. No, it roams the cave network freely, hunting its prey (you). It does have a nest, and cocooned in its webs are NPCs from the village that you can free (and one of them is a shopkeep that sells unique armour!). The spider itself is a formidable opponent with a large health pool that can one-shot you. Luckily, it also can't see, so if you stand still, maybe it will walk past you, or maybe it will prod you for signs of life. There's many ways of killing it. Like with a TNT barrel. Or there's a few places where you can use your physics abilities to trigger a cave-in right on top of it - you just have to use sound to lure it under the correct pile of rocks. Or you can find it when it is in its nest and set the whole fuckin place on fire. Maybe it won't die entirely and will scurry out of there, in flames with low-health. Or you can just fight it normally if you're good enough. Or you can not kill it at all and solve the puzzles in a state of continual terror.
So as you're doing all this, the world is changing around you: The lake is filling back up, the farmlands are absorbing the remaining water residue. Once you've fully diverted the water, the lake is full, and you can swim to the other side to get your heart piece. All of this is optional and out of the critical path, a massive gameplay nugget to be "discovered" by the curious player.

To me, that's Zelda to the core. It's not a "dungeon", but it contains all the hallmarks of what makes a good dungeon while still feeling like something completely new in the series. Innit.
 
I read all the replies and I'm going to reply back with some thoughts that swirl around that in certain ways reach several of the earlier subjects. (Eh?)

My favorite game has always been Ocarina of Time, it was the biggest timesink (barring Banjo Kazooie) from my childhood and it gave me the biggest sense of an adventure any game has ever given me. Why?

I believe it is the contrast of the overworld vs. The dungeons. There was always a certain weight on my quest that made every little step meaningful. Whether I was looking for hidden goodies or progressing a side- or the mainstory. The outside felt really open and the day-night transition gave it a whole new atmosphere. That was until I reached a dungeon. All of a sudden everything I knew about the world wasn't relevant anymore because I was in an entire new world, worlds that made me feel very claustrophobic, I literary felt the pressure of the dungeons. When venturing all the wonders and dangers the dungeon gave me I was relieved to finally be outside again. Ready for a fresh new adventure out in the open. Zelda has always felt fresh because of the quickly changing atmospheres imo.

Then we have BotW, a game that made me rethink Zelda. In a way BotW is an infinite better game but not a better execution of the Zelda formula (obviously as it was stepping away from that) I grew to love BotW for the sense of adventure it gave me out in the open all over again but after my quest was nearly done that world kinda collapsed all of a sudden. BotW missed something that Ocarina of Time had and I think it's in the contrast of the experience.

In OoT we had: Overworld-Villages-Dungeons
In BotW we had: Overworld-Villages

I don't count the divine beasts as Dungeons because of the fact that they were just machines out in the open, thematically boring I also felt no pressure as I could exit at any time I pleased. This is where I expect BotW 2 to smash it out of the park once again + "The Sky" will be more important as ever before.

BotW was the first step in a new direction so I have really high expectations of the new entry. I hope they can bring back all the varying themes in full glory, so that it will feel like the biggest adventure ever all over again. I have faith in the team, Zelda has always been the pinnacle of gaming to me.

Underwater swimming would be a nice bonus as well so we can traverse in truly all directions: Sky-Land-Sea

Can't wait. Stelletje Koekwauzen
 
Last edited:
catonkatonk said:
I understand the complains people have with Breath of the Wild, but I'll never relate to the fix being "go do the same thing the other twenty games did already".
Zelda doesn't need to be so constrained.

I'll put my cards on the table here and share my Next Gen "Dungeon" Idea:
You discover a small village nestled in the midst of mountains on all sides, next to a dried up lake. On the other side of a lake is a cave opening with a heart piece that you can't get to because the opening juts out and you can't climb upside down. The townfolks are having a bad time: The lake was their primary source of water. It was fed from a spring located within a mountain, but that spring has somehow been diverted to the other side of the mountain, flooding the farmland on the other side (to you, it was just a lake when you arrived). Some people have gone up to try and find out what's happening, but they've never returned.
The mountain itself is host to a complex, interconnected network of caves - some artificial, indicating a mining past - however there are multiple (as in, 10-15) entrances and exits, from the foot to the summit. You must get in there, find the source of the water, and redirect it. Blocking your way are various cave-ins that your bombs can't destroy. Luckily the miners left behind barrels of TNT. In carrying these, though, your mobility is limited and you can't defend yourself, so actually figuring out how to get the TNT to the target is a puzzle in itself. Upon finding the spring, you discover it's been rerouted by an artificially created channel with beams bearing an upside-down sheikah logo. You now have to find a way to use the physics system in the game to get the water where you want to go. You also have to use the water to turn gears and weigh down switches to open gates. The direction of the flow will affect the gears. There is a miniboss located somewhere here: A bioluminescent thing with thin tendrils and no sense of sight.
And there is a boss: A giant spider. However this spider isn't sitting in some room waiting for you to kill it. No, it roams the cave network freely, hunting its prey (you). It does have a nest, and cocooned in its webs are NPCs from the village that you can free (and one of them is a shopkeep that sells unique armour!). The spider itself is a formidable opponent with a large health pool that can one-shot you. Luckily, it also can't see, so if you stand still, maybe it will walk past you, or maybe it will prod you for signs of life. There's many ways of killing it. Like with a TNT barrel. Or there's a few places where you can use your physics abilities to trigger a cave-in right on top of it - you just have to use sound to lure it under the correct pile of rocks. Or you can find it when it is in its nest and set the whole fuckin place on fire. Maybe it won't die entirely and will scurry out of there, in flames with low-health. Or you can just fight it normally if you're good enough. Or you can not kill it at all and solve the puzzles in a state of continual terror.
So as you're doing all this, the world is changing around you: The lake is filling back up, the farmlands are absorbing the remaining water residue. Once you've fully diverted the water, the lake is full, and you can swim to the other side to get your heart piece. All of this is optional and out of the critical path, a massive gameplay nugget to be "discovered" by the curious player.

To me, that's Zelda to the core. It's not a "dungeon", but it contains all the hallmarks of what makes a good dungeon while still feeling like something completely new in the series. Innit.
Click to expand...
I like this. I have always been a fan of "dungeons that aren't dungeons"
 
0
catonkatonk said:
I understand the complains people have with Breath of the Wild, but I'll never relate to the fix being "go do the same thing the other twenty games did already".
Zelda doesn't need to be so constrained.

I'll put my cards on the table here and share my Next Gen "Dungeon" Idea:
You discover a small village nestled in the midst of mountains on all sides, next to a dried up lake. On the other side of a lake is a cave opening with a heart piece that you can't get to because the opening juts out and you can't climb upside down. The townfolks are having a bad time: The lake was their primary source of water. It was fed from a spring located within a mountain, but that spring has somehow been diverted to the other side of the mountain, flooding the farmland on the other side (to you, it was just a lake when you arrived). Some people have gone up to try and find out what's happening, but they've never returned.
The mountain itself is host to a complex, interconnected network of caves - some artificial, indicating a mining past - however there are multiple (as in, 10-15) entrances and exits, from the foot to the summit. You must get in there, find the source of the water, and redirect it. Blocking your way are various cave-ins that your bombs can't destroy. Luckily the miners left behind barrels of TNT. In carrying these, though, your mobility is limited and you can't defend yourself, so actually figuring out how to get the TNT to the target is a puzzle in itself. Upon finding the spring, you discover it's been rerouted by an artificially created channel with beams bearing an upside-down sheikah logo. You now have to find a way to use the physics system in the game to get the water where you want to go. You also have to use the water to turn gears and weigh down switches to open gates. The direction of the flow will affect the gears. There is a miniboss located somewhere here: A bioluminescent thing with thin tendrils and no sense of sight.
And there is a boss: A giant spider. However this spider isn't sitting in some room waiting for you to kill it. No, it roams the cave network freely, hunting its prey (you). It does have a nest, and cocooned in its webs are NPCs from the village that you can free (and one of them is a shopkeep that sells unique armour!). The spider itself is a formidable opponent with a large health pool that can one-shot you. Luckily, it also can't see, so if you stand still, maybe it will walk past you, or maybe it will prod you for signs of life. There's many ways of killing it. Like with a TNT barrel. Or there's a few places where you can use your physics abilities to trigger a cave-in right on top of it - you just have to use sound to lure it under the correct pile of rocks. Or you can find it when it is in its nest and set the whole fuckin place on fire. Maybe it won't die entirely and will scurry out of there, in flames with low-health. Or you can just fight it normally if you're good enough. Or you can not kill it at all and solve the puzzles in a state of continual terror.
So as you're doing all this, the world is changing around you: The lake is filling back up, the farmlands are absorbing the remaining water residue. Once you've fully diverted the water, the lake is full, and you can swim to the other side to get your heart piece. All of this is optional and out of the critical path, a massive gameplay nugget to be "discovered" by the curious player.

To me, that's Zelda to the core. It's not a "dungeon", but it contains all the hallmarks of what makes a good dungeon while still feeling like something completely new in the series. Innit.
Click to expand...
i enjoy your zelda fan fiction
 
0
catonkatonk said:
I can't speak for that person, but I prefer the shrines, at least in theory.
Breath of the Wild's gameplay loop was so addictive because it was snappy. You were never doing the same thing for long. You could spend a hundred hours in Hyrule and the pace would never lag because every quest, every shrine/beast, every journey to any destination, every nugget of gameplay, everything, is shorter than 40 minutes at the high end.
In previous Zelda games, I'd be having the time of my life exploring the overworld, uncovering secrets, figuring out cryptic riddles, etc., and then suddenly I'm in a dungeon. And I have to navigate through a labyrinthine network of rooms, fighting scrub enemies and shooting eye-shaped switches for the next hour. And I better do it in that single sitting, because if I go away and come back, I'll never remember where I was or what I was doing.

I feel like the shrines had the strongest puzzle content in series history, and they did it without killing the pace the or demanding a time commitment. The divine beasts took my favourite Zelda dungeon elements (whole-dungeon puzzles like the Water Temple, which, actually, is my favourite traditional Zelda dungeon), and cut out the fat. Vah Naboris rules.
I like that there were few enemies there, too. Being assaulted by a bunch of fuckin bats while you're trying to push a block isn't enjoyable to me. Zelda enemies generally aren't challenging, they're just a waste of time.

Shrines did leave something to be desired in terms of theming and atmosphere, sure. And I think their clean design makes the solutions to puzzles a bit too obvious because there's no environmental redirects - IE, if there's a pool of water, it's important and you need to use that pool of water for something. But the theory behind them is rock solid. Finding a shrine was like finding a wonderful little treat, and that can only happen if there's 120 of them dotted around the landscape.
Now, if you take Breath of the Wild, and you add, like, more Divine Beast-sized "dungeons" that are themed to the environment and have unique music and all of that? I wouldn't object. But not a the expense of the shrines.
Click to expand...
About the shrines, I don't know if my brain is too hardwired to solve this type of puzzle more easily but my feeling was the same of solving those good physic puzzle games(usually mobile). Indeed there's some satisfaction but it's too forgetable at the same time. Except for the shrines where the puzzle was in the overworld, I have almost zero recollection of them. While on tradional dungeons there's this idea of understanding a central mechanism by navigating through several room, and that works the best for me. That said the divine beasts tried to do something like this but imo it didn't work. But in this case it's probably due to repetition because because I remember enjoying the first one I finished.

You used one word that summarize BOTW, "addictive". I spent more than 500 hours with the game alongside two playthroughs. The game is really fun(probably the best Zelda in this aspect together with ALBW), the systems are really addictive, you are always wanting for more. But imo being fun isn't enough and being addictive isn't necessarily a quality. A lot of the games out there that are heavilly criticized for grinding. But people only grind because they get some satisfaction from it. Sometimes because of the reward or sometimes because the process itself is fun.

Sometimes I saw myself on the top of mountains grinding for ore and reflecting about what am I doing of my life. Is this the best way to spend my free time? Why am I doing this on a Zelda game? Why can't I stop playing this game?

I miss that feeling of finishing a dungeon and thinking "now I am done with this game for today" or "what interesting actitivities I can find in the overworld with my new items". As I said in some other posts, I believe those addictive systems only exist to justify the size of the world. You can't populate a world of this size with unique stuff(gameplay and content wise). So you need to create systems that will keep the player entertained or that are easier to scale(people create new content in a fast manner). It isn't a BOTW only problem, I feel like this about most of the best open world games out there. As I say, being open isn't the problem but this size seems to be unsustainable. Also that's why I really wanted them to iterate on ALBW concept.

Though BOTW highs are top notch. And I really see potential on the sequel.
 
manfromthedam said:
Nail on the head. Consider this: every Divine Beast has unique music WITH additional layers per terminal unlock. Time between terminals is just a few minutes, and a Divine Beast is done and dusted within the hour. Not to mention the Attack on... tracks.


Shrines make up the bulk of dungeons in BotW, with the player spending hours upon hours there. Yet there's only one single music track for them all.

Made a video on the issue last year, and am sure they'll have it fixed for the sequel.
Click to expand...

Bro, I had no idea you were using this username here, haha. How are you?

And yes, I completely agree with you, as usual.
 
balgajo said:
About the shrines, I don't know if my brain is too hardwired to solve this type of puzzle more easily but my feeling was the same of solving those good physic puzzle games(usually mobile). Indeed there's some satisfaction but it's too forgetable at the same time. Except for the shrines where the puzzle was in the overworld, I have almost zero recollection of them. While on tradional dungeons there's this idea of understanding a central mechanism by navigating through several room, and that works the best for me. That said the divine beasts tried to do something like this but imo it didn't work. But in this case it's probably due to repetition because because I remember enjoying the first one I finished.

You used one word that summarize BOTW, "addictive". I spent more than 500 hours with the game alongside two playthroughs. The game is really fun(probably the best Zelda in this aspect together with ALBW), the systems are really addictive, you are always wanting for more. But imo being fun isn't enough and being addictive isn't necessarily a quality. A lot of the games out there that are heavilly criticized for grinding. But people only grind because they get some satisfaction from it. Sometimes because of the reward or sometimes because the process itself is fun.

Sometimes I saw myself on the top of mountains grinding for ore and reflecting about what am I doing of my life. Is this the best way to spend my free time? Why am I doing this on a Zelda game? Why can't I stop playing this game?

I miss that feeling of finishing a dungeon and thinking "now I am done with this game for today" or "what interesting actitivities I can find in the overworld with my new items". As I said in some other posts, I believe those addictive systems only exist to justify the size of the world. You can't populate a world of this size with unique stuff(gameplay and content wise). So you need to create systems that will keep the player entertained or that are easier to scale(people create new content in a fast manner). It isn't a BOTW only problem, I feel like this about most of the best open world games out there. As I say, being open isn't the problem but this size seems to be unsustainable. Also that's why I really wanted them to iterate on ALBW concept.

Though BOTW highs are top notch. And I really see potential on the sequel.
Click to expand...
Great post. There’s a disconnect I’ve felt with a lot of modern games that I couldn’t quite pinpoint, but you’ve articulated it really well here. The type of gameplay loop I’ve always personally preferred is when I can sit down for a session of 30 or 60 minutes and in that timespan focus on accomplishing a particular, substantial task, where by the end I feel like I’ve made some real progress. And I’ve also never found the idea of extremely long or “endless” games appealing. But many modern games tend to be focused on a gigantic playtime that is filled up with a sort of cyclical grind of small, similar tasks.

One example of this that stood out to me was when I played Super Mario Sunshine and Odyssey, both for the first time within a year of each other. And while there’s no doubt that Odyssey is the more polished game and there were times Sunshine left me extremely frustrated, overall Sunshine felt more memorable to me. With Odyssey, I could play for half an hour, get fifteen moons, and an hour or two later I could remember almost nothing that I had done. While with Sunshine, I might spend half an hour just trying to get one or two shines, and when I got them I felt quite satisfied. The experience of working for them has stuck in my mind and makes me look back on the game more fondly.

It’s not that I hate these modern games. I still enjoyed Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey and Fire Emblem: Three Houses (which I feel also fits into this category). But I think it’s this distinction that makes them not quite reach the heights of earlier games in the series for me. And clearly I am in the minority, because these games are hugely popular and tons of people consider them the best the series have ever been. But that’s how I feel, at any rate.
 
Trailer looks amazing. The tone seem more serious than BoTW from the tapestry and just the visuals.
I love the name. Can't wait to see what it's for.

My guess by rewatching it is, at 30 seconds we see some kind of figure levitating with 7 things floating around it. They look like tears but with the Zonai tribe spiral. This is maybe not intentional but that would be fun if they explained what happened to that tribe.

After rewatching again, as they reveal the title in the end, we see the "tears" on top of two people which one is probable Zelda and the other one looks like a Queen of some sort, maybe of said Kingdom.

I loved the floathing plane.

And seems so far that the game will indeed spend a lot of time in the same map which looks altered. Idk how i feel about that still has it might just kill the envy to play Botw again if the game is just better.
 
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The floating lands seem to be from the ground on present time. Wonder if that's where the underground portions are.

I mean, the holes left by them. Interesting that the theory of Great Plateau being moved really makes sense with this movement of big bodies of earth.
 
Selarmor said:
My only guess is that it's "tears" as in "rips" and that the floating islands are pieces of locations from previous games?
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Yeah but that doesn't mean anything either. Bill was probably just making some excuse up so the reporter would just stop asking I guess.

Also, imagine showing this in the UK stream. Tears of the Kingdom lol.
 
Selarmor said:
My only guess is that it's "tears" as in "rips" and that the floating islands are pieces of locations from previous games?
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Yeah, I mentioned this in the other thread but they don't care about story spoilers, and even IGN didn't interpret that quote like that. Knowing that Zelda titles usually refer to a key game concept or mechanic (and that being what Trinen referred to), I'm also reading "tears" as "rips." Maybe there's portals around Hyrule.

Death Mountain has the same effect coming out of its maw as can be seen under the castle. Guess it's a dungeon again?
 
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Box art

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There's a green swirly thing right next to the stable at the bottom of this screenshot, as well as another one in the forest above the ravine on the right. Could be fast travel spots or a portal to the sky, or even shrines. They are meant to be seen from a distance, so they must have some importance.
 
UnassumingLocalGuy said:
Great post. There’s a disconnect I’ve felt with a lot of modern games that I couldn’t quite pinpoint, but you’ve articulated it really well here. The type of gameplay loop I’ve always personally preferred is when I can sit down for a session of 30 or 60 minutes and in that timespan focus on accomplishing a particular, substantial task, where by the end I feel like I’ve made some real progress. And I’ve also never found the idea of extremely long or “endless” games appealing. But many modern games tend to be focused on a gigantic playtime that is filled up with a sort of cyclical grind of small, similar tasks.

One example of this that stood out to me was when I played Super Mario Sunshine and Odyssey, both for the first time within a year of each other. And while there’s no doubt that Odyssey is the more polished game and there were times Sunshine left me extremely frustrated, overall Sunshine felt more memorable to me. With Odyssey, I could play for half an hour, get fifteen moons, and an hour or two later I could remember almost nothing that I had done. While with Sunshine, I might spend half an hour just trying to get one or two shines, and when I got them I felt quite satisfied. The experience of working for them has stuck in my mind and makes me look back on the game more fondly.

It’s not that I hate these modern games. I still enjoyed Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey and Fire Emblem: Three Houses (which I feel also fits into this category). But I think it’s this distinction that makes them not quite reach the heights of earlier games in the series for me. And clearly I am in the minority, because these games are hugely popular and tons of people consider them the best the series have ever been. But that’s how I feel, at any rate.
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We got too good on understating the human behavior and at knowing how to keep people engaged on our products. A games competes not only with other games but also with instagram, tiktok, netflix for peoples attention. And like those products, it's pretty common for me to play some games, have a good time with them but in the end comes this bitter sensation of having wasted my time.
 
balgajo said:
The floating lands seem to be from the ground on present time. Wonder if that's where the underground portions are.

I mean, the holes left by them. Interesting that the theory of Great Plateau being moved really makes sense with this movement of big bodies of earth.
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Maybe a few places have risen up like the castle but I don't think most of it is, it has its own architecture style.
And you can obviously get there by reversing time on fallen pieces of it.
 
WestEgg said:
Basically every Zelda title feels weird until you get used to it.
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Yeah.

The problem is that after 3 years of title guessing that often jokingly uses the "X of the Y" structure, it's impossible for me to take such a title seriously right now.
 
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Stinky Horse said:
Maybe a few places have risen up like the castle but I don't think most of it is, it has its own architecture style.
And you can obviously get there by reversing time on fallen pieces of it.
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Maybe I'm reading too much into in. But in the climbing shot the piece of land had some roots on it. So I assumed it came from the surface.
But there are also tree in the floating lands so I make sense to have roots anyway....XD
 
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Nickle said:
NSwitch_TheLegendOfZeldaTearsOfTheKingdom_09.jpg

There's a green swirly thing right next to the stable at the bottom of this screenshot, as well as another one in the forest above the ravine on the right. Could be fast travel spots or a portal to the sky, or even shrines. They are meant to be seen from a distance, so they must have some importance.
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Nothing to do with the swirl. But just realized that the green symbol on the surface is the princess/maiden one but rotated on the cameda perspective.
 
We should have mini-dungeons and big dungeons.

But I really don't think traditional dungeons from the classic Zelda games will really work. I think that formula still has potential, but it will need some tweaks to not repeat the mistakes that even OoT and MM made.
 
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brainchild said:
Bro, I had no idea you were using this username here, haha. How are you?

And yes, I completely agree with you, as usual.
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Haha, we had interactions here previously so though you'd noticed, but I am semi-undercover here so makes sense. Doing well, so happy that Zelda is there! Also on the lookout for some new composing work, would love to have something to sink my teeth into. One minute of new Zelda music will tide me over for the month though ;) .

How are you doing these days?

WestEgg said:
Box artView attachment 705
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Oohh where did you get this? Interesting looking for sure!
Zedlars said:
The whole thing just gives me Studio Ghibli vibes, especially with the title. I love the direction they are taking with this! <3

e3c700b20ae575eefeb71b7506390497--piano-anime-sky-art.jpg
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They upped the Ghibli vibes for sure! It was in the music too, they had synthesizer subtly in the background of the orchestra to add sparkle, which is a Hisaishi staple.

Overall I LOVE how TotK has a more vibrant and energetic vibe compared to the solemn BotW. Despite similar art styles they've gone for quite the different vibe. More mystical, magical and colourful.
 
Nickle said:
NSwitch_TheLegendOfZeldaTearsOfTheKingdom_09.jpg

There's a green swirly thing right next to the stable at the bottom of this screenshot, as well as another one in the forest above the ravine on the right. Could be fast travel spots or a portal to the sky, or even shrines. They are meant to be seen from a distance, so they must have some importance.
Click to expand...
The fact we still have wild long haired link and this link tells me theres two dimensions/times at play and maybe these transport us from one to the other.
 
The tear vessel thing on the artwork seem like scrolls in the first shot when Link open the huge door.

He seems to have 4 of them but only two are activated.

Wamb0wneD said:
The fact we still have wild long haired link and this link tells me theres two dimensions/times at play and maybe these transport us from one to the other.
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Yep, seem like it.
 
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Watched the trailer a few times, slowly beginning to see several things Zeltik & co. Can have a fieldday with.

We the the owl deity on the tapestry and in the next shot a floating Zelda above the energy of darkness, to the right of Zelda is standing a humanoid figure...? We can only see it partly.

The owl deity is making 7 symbols float, 7 collectibles perhaps? Akin to the medallions from OoT. In a scene after we see Zelda holding hands with someone unknown, above them an orb holding 2 of those symbols from earlier. I am now thinking of an ancient depication of the Triforce or something that has to do with its power.

But wait, that is not Zelda, the girl has a Sheikah symbol looking at her eye. Then again... The pointy ears.

Is that an Eye on Link's shield?

Nintendo with the eyes again...

Link seems to be carrying a pouch with vials or something?

...what the hell is seeping out of the volcano?

For such a short trailer there's a lot to dissect.
 
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