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StarTopic Nintendo General Discussion |ST Oct. 2021|

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Potential Hot Take: Ocarina of Time having specific emulation issues show why Nintendo can't/won't drop everything all at once, even if they didn't have to worry about licensing/rights issues.
 
I’ve been thinking about it: This N64 stuff is clearly rushed. The NES/SNES NSO stuff, if I remember correctly, was based off the emulation work they did for the Classic Mini consoles, so they already had a head start. N64 had no such luxury. Even with the work done on Super Mario 64 for 3DAS, clearly the year between was not enough time to truly get the N64’s emulation up to snuff.

Genesis seems pretty good tho!
 
Oregano said:
Potential Hot Take: Ocarina of Time having specific emulation issues show why Nintendo can't/won't drop everything all at once, even if they didn't have to worry about licensing/rights issues.
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The key point here for me is they haven't actually bothered - or been able (?) - to fix the specific issues Ocarina has even while going for a staggered approach. I mean sure, I can see what you're saying and agree that dropping everything at once - or dropping a large number of games at once - surely increases the chances that some of them will have issues. But in this case one of their premier games has been added to the service with noticeable issues even with their current staggered approach.
 
Derachi said:
I’ve been thinking about it: This N64 stuff is clearly rushed. The NES/SNES NSO stuff, if I remember correctly, was based off the emulation work they did for the Classic Mini consoles, so they already had a head start. N64 had no such luxury. Even with the work done on Super Mario 64, clearly the year between was not enough time to truly get the N64’s emulation up to snuff.

Genesis seems pretty good tho!
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I was about to post something similar. No way to know about the development of this but there's some glaring oversights here that make it look quite shoddy, especially compared to the NES and SNES apps.

edit: To take away some of the "armchair developer" edge off my post, I wanna add that obviously N64 emulation is more difficult so some hiccups are to be expected. I'm just surprised that they released it in this state instead of giving it some more time in the oven. Hopefully they'll continually update the emulator and fix at least some of the more glaring issues.
 
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MisterSpo said:
The key point here for me is they haven't actually bothered - or been able (?) - to fix the specific issues Ocarina has even while going for a staggered approach. I mean sure, I can see what you're saying and agree that dropping everything at once - or dropping a large number of games at once - surely increases the chances that some of them will have issues. But in this case one of their premier games has been added to the service with noticeable issues even with their current staggered approach.
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Ahh, but as part of the initial drop it wasn't staggered. Check mate. =P
 
Hentz said:
Kind of shocking when you look at how much they charge for the N64 emulation and the quality of what delivered
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I wouldn't say I'm "shocked", more like mildly disappointed but not nearly enough for it to keep me from having a great time with these games I love
 
Is this the first instance of them making one single emulator for a platform, rather than an individual emulator for each rom which they used to do on Wii and Wii U VC?
 
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Red Monster said:
im looking forward to playing sonic 2 with the snes controller

im such a rebel
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Screen_Shot_2019-01-17_at_4.22.43_PM.jpg
 
bellydrum said:
I wouldn't say I'm "shocked", more like mildly disappointed but not nearly enough for it to keep me from having a great time with these games I love
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I know, I'm seeing all of this outrage whilst I'm sat here having a great time playing the games. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the outrage (especially on Twitter and other gaming boards) was coming from people who haven't actually played the games.
 
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Hentz said:
Kind of shocking when you look at how much they charge for the N64 emulation and the quality of what delivered
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I don’t think Nintendo had some internal formula for quality of emulation-to-price ratio or anything like that. The end goal here was “get more money from the consumer,“ not “determine a good price for the quality of this product.”
 
Feels like almost time for Capcom to drop some new MH trailers. They usually show something MH related monthly.
 
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I agree it seems rushed. I wouldn't be surprise if 100% of the work done on these games was after 3DAS.
 
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Derachi said:
I don’t think Nintendo had some internal formula for quality of emulation-to-price ratio or anything like that. The end goal here was “get more money from the consumer,“ not “determine a good price for the quality of this product.”
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By asking for that much money, the least they could’ve done is give us quality emulation.
 
Hentz said:
Kind of shocking when you look at how much they charge for the N64 emulation and the quality of what delivered
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On one hand you are right, on the other hand, most of the price for the expansion pack definitely comes from the Mega Drive/Genesis app and the third party games that comes with it (Castlevania, Contra...)

But yeah, still a bad look when N64 app is definitely the star of the service and that it cost that much to get it.

Honestly, I imagine Nintendo reps don't even realize the issues. Regular folks won't notice it either and most of us wouldn't have noticed if we weren't told, so I guess it explains why. We were sold 10$ piece those also badly emulated N64 games back on Wii U after all. (And some of them, like Paper Mario and OoT/MM, in 50hz only for us European folks lol)
 
Coco said:
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This game looks so pretty, I'm so hyped.

I'm having a baby in December so a turn based strategy RPG is going to be perfect for me. I am imagining a lot of sleepless March nights staying up with the baby and this game :LOL:
 
In the midst of all this I almost forgot about the N64 controller... which was just shipped. Should hopefully have it by the end of the week.
 
Hentz said:
By asking for that much money, the least they could’ve done is give us quality emulation.
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I mean, you’re right in that it is, as it stands, a bad value. But as discussed above, this was clearly a rushed job. NES/SNES, outside of being significantly less difficult to emulate, had a lot of the work done for them through the NES/SNES Classic Minis. As @bellydrum said above, it’s safe to assume a lot of the work done here was done in the year between 3DAS and now. A year to develop a whole catch-all emulator for a system as complex as N64 is no small feat. I think the main issue now, going forward, is whether or not they’re going to fix the existing issues. My gut says they will. They already got bombarded by bad press regarding the price, and now they’re getting bombarded by bad press regarding the quality. As you said: for that price, the least they could do is deliver better emulation than the Wii was doing.
 
Red Monster said:
im legitimately scared to see how Era is behaving this morning irt the n64 stuff
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I wouldn’t know. But it’s probably predictable, I say it’s a mix of...

-Legitimate criticism from
Fans
-people who have no interest in anything Nintendo happy to see it being a mess
-hyperbole and tiny bit of mis-information
  • console warriors
  • some memes
  • some Twitter examples.
  • probably the worst part, cynical posting from people.

All and all, could’ve been avoided if Nintendo released it in a better state.
 
Red Monster said:
im legitimately scared to see how Era is behaving this morning irt the n64 stuff
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Seeing the online reactions makes me so glad this place exists. People have been doing "It's CURRENT_YEAR, how can Nintendo do this???" for like 20 years now. Move on. It's not even like the service is perfect or above criticism, but the insane hysteria where people have to act like not only are the games completely unplayable but it's also an insult to 'consumers' and an egregiously predatory business practice. Some people are incapable of using the word "Nintendo" in a sentence without the word "anti-consumer".

People take video games way too seriously. I just want to play and discuss games, not ponder the morality of Nintendo business practices.
 
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I'm gonna be real with you all, I'm having a great time with N64 online. If it weren't for Twitter and me checking some big game boards, I would not have noticed anything was wrong. Do I want Nintendo to fix the big issues (fog/texture/controller pak emulation)? Of course. Who doesn't want the best product available?

But it's just amazing how incredibly negative gaming spaces have become. I've been seeing it called "irredeemably awful" and that's just ridiculous. I'm happy this board exists because it does help put things back in perspective - things are definitely not as bad as what I'm seeing.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
The Era meta-discussion is a bit unnecessary IMO. Getting away from it was the entire point of this board (among others).
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Yep. Again, I legitimately forgot it existed for a few days because I have here and install base to get my forum fix. I'm happy to not be reminded of it.
 
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Nintendo are just getting with the times. Launching things in a botched state and fixing them after you've taken payment for it is simply how big-budget gaming works these days.
 
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Honestly I'm still going to get the Expansion Pack but I might wait on trying to play OOT for the first time until there is a patch. I definitely have Genesis games I want to play anyway as I have no nostalgia for the N64 (my nostalgia would be for the PS1 from that generation). Would be nice to see a fix for the Controller Pak vs Rumble Pak thing.
 
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This is captured from a Japanese Nintendo 64. The texture is correct for the Japanese version of the game (which is what that NSO shot was taken from), though the reflections are indeed missing - which I think is likely related to the transparency issues.
 
I’m looking to finally upgrade my surround sound receiver for one that has HDMI but I wanna be sure it’s switch compatible. Does anyone have any recommendations?
 
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Somebody get to the Water Temple in the other regional versions of OOT and take a damn screenshot!

I'm still in 'work' (i.e. drinking coffee, posting here, and slowly editing some stuff...)
Mandos said:
First 6 are easy
  1. 1080
  2. Banjo Kazooie
  3. Custom Robo
  4. Custom Robo V2
  5. Diddy Kong Racing
  6. Donkey Kong 64
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My issue with this list is the lack of Banjo-Tooie. I hope Nintendo have secured as many Rare games as possible for this.
 
Derachi said:
I mean, you’re right in that it is, as it stands, a bad value. But as discussed above, this was clearly a rushed job. NES/SNES, outside of being significantly less difficult to emulate, had a lot of the work done for them through the NES/SNES Classic Minis. As @bellydrum said above, it’s safe to assume a lot of the work done here was done in the year between 3DAS and now. A year to develop a whole catch-all emulator for a system as complex as N64 is no small feat. I think the main issue now, going forward, is whether or not they’re going to fix the existing issues. My gut says they will. They already got bombarded by bad press regarding the price, and now they’re getting bombarded by bad press regarding the quality. As you said: for that price, the least they could do is deliver better emulation than the Wii was doing.
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I don't think "bad press" means really anything to these big companies. It's always a losing point in discussion so I'm not sure why people keep bring it up. Same with Youtube negative votes and Twitter comments. These companies know that people have short attention spans and they'll just move onto the next outrageous thing in a matter of days. By this time next month, we'll be seeing a ton of hype comments about the next drop of N64 games.

Not saying Nintendo shouldn't continue to improve the emulation and I'm not saying they won't, I just don't think bad press has really any impact on that sort of thing. The reality is that for 95% of people, the emulation is probably good enough, millions of people will want the AC expansion, and the high cost is actually not that high to most people as the internet makes it out to be.
 
Dopply said:
I'm gonna be real with you all, I'm having a great time with N64 online. If it weren't for Twitter and me checking some big game boards, I would not have noticed anything was wrong. Do I want Nintendo to fix the big issues (fog/texture/controller pak emulation)? Of course. Who doesn't want the best product available?

But it's just amazing how incredibly negative gaming spaces have become. I've been seeing it called "irredeemably awful" and that's just ridiculous. I'm happy this board exists because it does help put things back in perspective - things are definitely not as bad as what I'm seeing.
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Yeah, while I'm definitely disappointed with the current situation, it certainly isn't some earth-shattering atrocity. I wish it were better, but it doesn't change the fact that plenty of people, hardcore and casual alike, are gonna have a good time with this emulation setup. I think what's contributing to the negativity is the fact that its tied to a price-hike, which got people's expectations up. In this case, the price hike is more likely due to having to license Sega Genesis stuff, but people are still gonna view the N64 emulation through the lens of that price increase.
 
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Mandos said:
First 6 are easy
  1. 1080
  2. Banjo Kazooie
  3. Custom Robo
  4. Custom Robo V2
  5. Diddy Kong Racing
  6. Donkey Kong 64
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8-12 are mostly known since we have three out of the five confirmed (although exact spots on the list unconfirmed)

8. F-Zero X
9.
10.
11. Kirby 64
12. Mario Golf

Maybe....
-Excitebike 64
-Gex
-Goldeneye (It ain't happening but I'm throwing it on the list)
-Glover
-Harvest Moon 64
-Hydro Thunder
-Jet Force Gemini

Anything else would be out of left field IMO. I didn't throw Hey You Pikachu because of the microphone functionality.
 
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Mandos said:
First 6 are easy
  1. 1080
  2. Banjo Kazooie
  3. Custom Robo
  4. Custom Robo V2
  5. Diddy Kong Racing
  6. Donkey Kong 64
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I don't think Diddy Kong Racing is a lock unfortunately, we'll see.
We know Nintendo aimed to release Blast Corps on Wii U VC (with Banjo Kazooie too), so it's probably that instead.
(Smash Ultimate was supposed to have Blast Corps spirits too)
 
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Yeah, I do think there's a bit of a disconnect here in that N64 alone isn't necessarily what's going to drive people to this subscription. Even though I'm an enormous nerd and look forward to Mega Drive and N64 titles on my Switch, the Animal Crossing expansion was the tipping point for me. It's not something I'm fussed about buying and keeping because I don't know how much I'll use it, but given I can get a heavily discounted sub, it makes the difference between jumping in and waiting it out before caving when F Zero X is added.
 
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Dopply said:
I'm gonna be real with you all, I'm having a great time with N64 online. If it weren't for Twitter and me checking some big game boards, I would not have noticed anything was wrong. Do I want Nintendo to fix the big issues (fog/texture/controller pak emulation)? Of course. Who doesn't want the best product available?

But it's just amazing how incredibly negative gaming spaces have become. I've been seeing it called "irredeemably awful" and that's just ridiculous. I'm happy this board exists because it does help put things back in perspective - things are definitely not as bad as what I'm seeing.
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Yeah, I’m kinda in this camp. I’ll acknowledge that it could be better, but I’m still looking forward to playing through Ocarina of Time again. I think the one thing I really do think they need to address is the Controller Pak issue. Graphical issues are one thing but the Controller Pak thing is like, a functionality problem.

I was hoping, going into this, that they’d make the DEFINITIVE versions of N64 games. Include Rumble AND Controller Pak support, maybe even go as far as 64DD support! Just REALLY give the N64 as much love as possible. I suppose I was maybe a tad optimistic lol
 
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