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Pre-Release Hollow Knight: Silksong — Pre-release Discussion Thread

at some point "it's a tiny team" becomes "then maybe they should hire more people" when you're struggling to finish off a sequel to a game that sold millions of copies

the team size here is a choice not an immutable fact of life
okay but who says they're struggling?
taking time and struggling are two different things, especially if you want a polished, quality release
 
at some point "it's a tiny team" becomes "then maybe they should hire more people" when you're struggling to finish off a sequel to a game that sold millions of copies

the team size here is a choice not an immutable fact of life
more people means more managing to get visions to align. a small team can move with purpose and without bullshit

the difference is that it takes time. you are not owed speed!
 
okay but who says they're struggling?
taking time and struggling are two different things, especially if you want a polished, quality release

more people means more managing to get visions to align. a small team can move with purpose and without bullshit

the difference is that it takes time. you are not owed speed!

fair but I keep seeing the team size being brought up as an excuse and it reminds me of when people do it with Game Freak

you can prefer a specific team size all you want but ultimately at this point it's a choice they've actively chosen to make
 
My biggest fear for silksong is that hollow knight already felt too big and bloated as a game, and if the huge development time for silksong is because they’re trying to outdo hollow knight by making it even bigger and with so much content then I don’t think I’m going to enjoy it that much. That’s why scope creep was my biggest concern and the lack of presence in the past 2 years definitely doesn’t help easing my fears.
 
imagine if hiring more people magically solved problems

this is a small outfit we're talking about, not an entrenched corporate disaster factory

believe me. I'm familiar. hiring more people means changing strategy and structure, and it's often to significant detriment if you're creatively-focused.

when you have to add like ten people to equal one more you and manage how they navigate the project... it becomes a mess! at that point, of course just taking longer with your current team makes sense!!

and besides — they literally did hire more playtesters at the start of the project to even out and eventually replace Graig's role as he slowly phased out to work on his own game.
 
fair but I keep seeing the team size being brought up as an excuse and it reminds me of when people do it with Game Freak

you can prefer a specific team size all you want but ultimately at this point it's a choice they've actively chosen to make
as an excuse??

excuse for what, exactly??

they have a small team and they're taking time and that is by design.

you want it faster! sure!

but what in that is binding?? why are you owed??

making games takes time!!
 
and here we have everyone losing their shit becauae it didn't show up at something it may or may not have been at with absolutely zero expectation set from the team for it

they are working on it and that is the information you get to have

everything else is us spitballing and shitposting

there is no lever
 
I think there'd be a bit less anxiety if Team Cherry at the very least did some kind of yearly or every six months update to explain how things are going.
They're certainly not forced to do it but I'd think it'd help alleviate needless speculation.
they've had an update every single year and people have shouted WELL THAT DOESN'T COUNT
 
as an excuse??

excuse for what, exactly??

they have a small team and they're taking time and that is by design.

you want it faster! sure!

but what in that is binding?? why are you owed??

making games takes time!!

I mean they've given release timelines in the past and blown past them without any communication

to be clear when I say people use it as an excuse in this case what I mean is I see the team size being used as something to bludgeon people expressing dissatisfaction with that with
 
I don’t have a horse in this race since I thought the first game was crap anyway, but I think a smaller team makes sense for a game like Hollow Knight.

Pokemon is a big, supposedly ambitious open world 3d game, hollow knight is a pretty tight, 2d game with a strong vision. Too big a team could definitely mess that up.
 
My biggest fear for silksong is that hollow knight already felt too big and bloated as a game, and if the huge development time for silksong is because they’re trying to outdo hollow knight by making it even bigger and with so much content then I don’t think I’m going to enjoy it that much. That’s why scope creep was my biggest concern and the lack of presence in the past 2 years definitely doesn’t help easing my fears.
I mean a lot of it's optional! I'd say a solid several of us think that's not "bloat" but an interesting and vast world!

and again, they aren't even aiming bigger — they're aiming for same feel-size. and taking the time and care to make it feel as good and interesting as Hollow Knight did.

so if you didn't like Hollow Knight's size, you'll probably be equally annoyed here, but that's their development process and in keeping with Hollow Knight.

they've always referred to their worldbuilding as a "kind of controlled scope creep" — so this was always the process.

for me, they're artisans — those leashed expansions tie the world together even better, and tend to amplify the storytelling of the world. I love the results of their process. and I trust them.

I would only want them to release what they're happy with, what they've forged in the crucible. wouldn't you?
 
I mean they've given release timelines in the past and blown past them without any communication
they literally haven't though

not once

the game has been delayed one time from an expectation they did not directly set, and likely did not want Xbox to set.

and even then — they told everyone before that deadline.
 
I mean a lot of it's optional! I'd say a solid several of us think that's not "bloat" but an interesting and vast world!

and again, they aren't even aiming bigger — they're aiming for same feel-size. and taking the time and care to make it feel as good and interesting as Hollow Knight did.

so if you didn't like Hollow Knight's size, you'll probably be equally annoyed here, but that's their development process and in keeping with Hollow Knight.
I mean we don’t know that, that’s why I’m speculating based on the amount of time they’ve taken without giving us any updates. If the game ends up in a similar size as hollow knight it’s going to be fine even if I would prefer a more tight experience. I just fear that after 5 years they might’ve gone too far with trying to outdo their previous game by making it more expansive by adding too much stuff and we could end up with a worse designed game because of it, especially since the biggest selling point of hollow knight at release was that it had a gigantic world while only costing 10$. You might’ve full faith on team cherry but I don’t and it wouldn’t be the first time an indie dev studio released a worse sequel because of scope creep.
 
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they literally haven't though

not once

the game has been delayed one time from an expectation they did not directly set, and likely did not want Xbox to set.

and even then — they told everyone before that deadline.

i'd call this pretty direct even if they aren't literally the ones that said it, especially since there's also a screenshot in this thread of them literally reposting the 12 months thing in their discord







FWW0jxuXwAE8HMn




I don't really have a horse in this since it isn't a game i'm personally interested in but if someone wants to be upset over the game still not being out 2 years after that i'd call that pretty reasonable

and if someone wants to use the team size as a bludgeon against someone being upset over it i'd call that pretty lame
 
at some point "it's a tiny team" becomes "then maybe they should hire more people" when you're struggling to finish off a sequel to a game that sold millions of copies
why are the original team obligated to expand when they like doing what they do and have no reason to rush their game out?

some of yall are acting like big publishers who force devs to release games before they're ready. again, an indie dev who have made a very successful game and are working on a sequel and taking their time has no reason to release their game before they want to.
 
they've had an update every single year and people have shouted WELL THAT DOESN'T COUNT
their blog on their website or their kickstarter hasn't been updated since 2019 which I think would be a better avenue to directly address their fans while sharing some small behind the scene tidbits. If I google "Silksong update" it's pretty hard to see concrete info besides "development is continuing" which goes without saying.

as an example I think Toby Fox and his team do a great job for example to update people on Deltarune development either on their website or twitter once in awhile and I think this helps avoid needless conspiracy theories. Tho tbf Toby expanded his dev team which might give him more breathing room but I'm doubtful it's that much bigger than Team Cherry current staff.

also no need to use caps lock when having reasonable conversations.
 
also no need to use caps lock when having reasonable conversations.
maybe our conversations are more reasonable here but I've seen soooo much bullshit, only increasingly

and as a small game developer... it really makes me feel like I shouldn't even bother!

that caps lock is reflective of shit I've seen in the community and the sense of entitlement to their progress that seems grueling and common

i'd call this pretty direct even if they aren't literally the ones that said it, especially since there's also a screenshot in this thread of them literally reposting the 12 months thing in their discord





FWW0jxuXwAE8HMn


I don't really have a horse in this since it isn't a game i'm personally interested in but if someone wants to be upset over the game still not being out 2 years after that i'd call that pretty reasonable

and if someone wants to use the team size as a bludgeon against someone being upset over it i'd call that pretty lame


so here's how I think that went.

xbox: we're gonna announce gamepass day one so give us yr footage bby — when do you think you'll be on the town?

team cherry: uhh we don't want to announce a date yet

xbox: ok but if u had 2 guess

team cherry: aiming for H1 2024?

xbox: cool bye

xbox show: HERE'S OUR CORNUCOPIA AMIGOS

xbox tweetlord: hey fuckos! guess what! you can play these within the year!

simo (now a playtester, discord-creator): we got a new trailer from xbox, gonna post and pin the tweet

team cherry: ohhhh fuck

simo: hey uh. people are asking about this and I'm not sure what to tell them

team cherry: so remember when Nintendo decided to say "coming soon" when we said nothing of the sort

simo: yeah

team cherry: well... xbox kinda ran with our internal target that we specifically didn't intend to announce

simo: fuck

team cherry: you can say that it's our intent I guess since we're sort of cornered on it now, but cherry time is the only time and we'll say what we mean when we're ready to say it. hopefully in that window.

simo: will do

blog on their website or their kickstarter hasn't been updated since 2019 which I think would be a better avenue to directly address their fans while sharing some small behind the scene tidbits. If I google "Silksong update" it's pretty hard to see concrete info besides "development is continuing" which goes without saying.

sure, true — but taking everything I've said into account, can you see how their initial cadence for 2019 kind of created a problem with no good solution?

I don't blame them for backing off, especially when they released a lot of info early on for a game they want to be mostly surprise and discovery

since then, they've tried to direct those efforts to a wider approach — which is better from a marketing perspective. everyone on their blog is already following them. outreach is much more valuable.

first, we had interactive riddles in the wider discord that revealed new characters — an audience-boosting thrill ride

then, we had the full feature in Edge magazine — again, a different tine of the trident, which revealed a ton of info about development, including screenshots

then, behind the scenes, it expands to both Playstation and Xbox, and we get audience-widening hits like the brand-new gamepass trailer

so they've been dusting around the edges, waiting til they've got the goods ready before launching a full campaign

there's a strategy here, and it really is a sound one in the wider sphere of marketing, even if you don't like it

they don't want to waste the reveals that they already want to be sparing with on blog posts — they want to grow the audience with them, before things go full-throttle with a release date announcement

Toby Fox's updates are direct and earnest, sure! that team does a good job with them. but that priority is a choice like any other. so is Team Cherry's approach.

and if someone wants to use the team size as a bludgeon against someone being upset over it i'd call that pretty lame

I feel like "bludgeon" is an unfair characterization of describing a reality that many people are willfully ignoring. be annoyed if you want. I will continue to be annoyed at the annoyance from a different perspective. dunk on my shit all you want, but don't expect me to not come back with why I think what I think and why I find the dunks in question frustrating

and as someone with chronic illness and a disabled partner, I'm finding your usage of "lame" pretty lame too
 
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The thing is, Team Cherry could put out a blog post explaining what's been the hold up - even if it's as simple as "these things, they take time" - without revealing a single thing about the game and that would end a significant portion of the hysteria right then, but they've still been radio silent outside of some leaked ratings a full year from their delay. As someone who's grown increasingly sick of the constant yelling about Silksong (ESPECIALLY over Indie World), it's hard to not feel bitter over it.
 
The thing is, Team Cherry could put out a blog post explaining what's been the hold up - even if it's as simple as "these things, they take time" - without revealing a single thing about the game and that would end a significant portion of the hysteria right then, but they've still been radio silent outside of some leaked ratings a full year from their delay. As someone who's grown increasingly sick of the constant yelling about Silksong (ESPECIALLY over Indie World), it's hard to not feel bitter over it.
but they did. They said that the game is still in development as of valentine's day. Which wholly tracks with what they said before and should not come as a surprise.

it's immensely frustrating that the fervor around it leads to people being dicks. like shitposting is its own thing but yeah, the chatcrowding and unchecked howls are disproportionate.

but... you really can't blame Team Cherry for that, lmao!
 
but they did. They said that the game is still in development as of valentine's day. Which wholly tracks with what they said before and should not come as a surprise.

it's immensely frustrating that the fervor around it leads to people being dicks. like shitposting is its own thing but yeah, the chatcrowding and unchecked howls are disproportionate.

but... you really can't blame Team Cherry for that, lmao!
Oh yeah I recognize it's irrational, but like I said it's hard not to feel that way sometimes. Even the "haha clown makeup" shitposting has worn thin after so many years. For the blogpost, I was thinking of them getting a little deeper into the weeds, like "there's a mechanic we don't want to talk about that's been a drag on development, but otherwise things are fine" or "the workload of porting to so many platforms at once has been much more than anticipated". You can only say "development is ongoing" so many times until people start appending "and we're stuck in a really bad rut" to it.
 
Oh yeah I recognize it's irrational, but like I said it's hard not to feel that way sometimes. Even the "haha clown makeup" shitposting has worn thin after so many years. For the blogpost, I was thinking of them getting a little deeper into the weeds, like "there's a mechanic we don't want to talk about that's been a drag on development, but otherwise things are fine" or "the workload of porting to so many platforms at once has been much more than anticipated". You can only say "development is ongoing" so many times until people start appending "and we're stuck in a really bad rut" to it.
Yeah. An official, not through the grape vine, blog post saying "it's still being worked on, have a nice artwork here, getting it where we want it took longer in addition to wanting to get it finished out to all platforms unlike hollow knight, thanks for your understanding."

Nintendo knows that. When a Zelda gets pushed back we get official communication. With MP4 they even sad: development restarted, being clear that it's not a 1-2 year delay ("restart development from the beginning").
 
but they did. They said that the game is still in development as of valentine's day. Which wholly tracks with what they said before and should not come as a surprise.

it's immensely frustrating that the fervor around it leads to people being dicks. like shitposting is its own thing but yeah, the chatcrowding and unchecked howls are disproportionate.

but... you really can't blame Team Cherry for that, lmao!
I don't see a blog post, press release, etc. Wasn't it on their discord? Far from proper communication...

(YouTube does have a ton of bad videos to silksong.. clickbait and doomposting.)
 
It'll be done when it's done and Team Cherry will communicate an update when they feel their progress warrants one.

Some of you are wearing clown makeup 24/7 because a video game is in development.
 
reasons the game has taken a while:

hornet too tall

ZbkHkyB.jpg


unacceptable goombas

bze5alo.jpeg


too busy drawing fan art

88ZBAed.jpeg


distracted by juggling

ALxonwz.jpeg


838y56V.jpeg


also worth noting that William had a kid, but I don't have a funny quote for that
 
reasons the game has taken a while:

hornet too tall

ZbkHkyB.jpg


unacceptable goombas

bze5alo.jpeg


too busy drawing fan art

88ZBAed.jpeg


distracted by juggling

ALxonwz.jpeg


838y56V.jpeg


also worth noting that William had a kid, but I don't have a funny quote for that
"Unacceptable goombas" is now a phrase that'll live rent free in my brain
 
And there's apparently yet another kickstarter login from Team Cherry. Surely all these recent logins after a long period without any mean something!
but @sadsquid, why didn't they make a

[ P R E S S . R E L E A S E ]​

about logging into their Kickstarter?!
 
It means you are hallucinating and forgot to take your meds. Silksong isn't real.
hey now, this seems a little insensitive to the "hallucinating and forgot to take their meds" community (me)

this is a joke
 
To be honest, I do suspect that something has gone really wrong from a development perspective. The approach to marketing between 2019 and 2022 Xbox E3 compared to the complete and utter radio silence in the past 2 years is uh... quite different? Before you had irregular interviews, blog updates and so on which just gave a general idea of "they're working on it and have good ideas". Now there's nothing besides a tweet from last year saying that they broke their publishing deadline with Microsoft and earlier this year that it's still in development (but only after people got upset at the lack of communication again). The silence is well, noteworthy considering at least one of the three people at TC is specifically hired to be their social media manager.

Do keep in mind, we have a reference on how you can communicate "hey, were still alive, this is more or less where we're at, keep your hype contained even if this is taking longer than I planned for" from other indie developers. Toby Fox isn't a one man show (he's also about as private an individual these days as Team Cherry is + the size of his team more or less is equivalent to TC), but the ~1-2 a year cycle of update newsletters does give confidence that Deltarune is both being worked on and that it'll probably turn out fine.

Silksongs complete radio silence however does not inspire that same confidence. It really suggests to me like the project went off the rails somewhere (some people have pointed to the Unity debacle pretty much only because it's the only time TC ever said anything in the past couple years). Considering that Silksong is a part of the original games Kickstarter (the original stretch goal was a Hornet campaign in HK itself, it got changed to a full blown extra game), the original backers do/should have a right to know more about what's going on.
 
lol, i wonder how yall feel when artists/creators aren't pressured by time or money in other mediums. sometimes things just take a lot of time and get delayed without something going wrong or being in development hell.
As a big fan of the band Tool and the author George R.R. Martin, I think I might be just attracted to things that just take a long time

Edit: I've often wondered what it's like to be a big fan of something like Pokémon, in which you're guaranteed at least one thing every single year. Must be nice.
 
8OxTAHb.jpeg


alright y'all it's been real but I'm not doing this again
I mean, with respect, you haven't really been refuting that part. The difference in communication between up until 2022 Xbox E3 and what happened afterwards is pretty staggering. There's a pretty heavy difference between Kickstarter updates, blog posts and magazine interviews vis-a-vis extremely sporadic single line tweets of the "it's in development" variety occurring about once a year. One indicates confidence and shows ideas of where development is heading, the other well... doesn't.

You're rebuking the idea of no communication, but that's not really uh, the problem? It's that the communication itself is inadequate.

I'll be happy when the game comes out (even if it's announced like next week in a Direct or something), but this kind of communication collapse over this period of time usually signifies trouble in paradise.

lol, i wonder how yall feel when artists/creators aren't pressured by time or money in other mediums. sometimes things just take a lot of time and get delayed without something going wrong or being in development hell.
Except when you have already taken people's money, you're also kinda required to keep backers informed about what you're doing. Silksong is a part of the Hollow Knight Kickstarter - people both backed and bought the game in part of the future Kickstarter promises.

The last "official" communication from Team Cherry in terms of Silksong progress (as in, actual progress and talking about the game, not a tweet from Leth) is from 2022 at Xbox' E3 where they had the big cinematic trailer. Ever since then, radio silence.

I'm used to projects taking a while, but TC has shown just a bit too much of their hand to let the hype run out of control and they've stuck their head in the sand instead of trying to stem the tide. That's a fault of their own making.
 
lol, i wonder how yall feel when artists/creators aren't pressured by time or money in other mediums. sometimes things just take a lot of time and get delayed without something going wrong or being in development hell.

Speaking from personal experience, not being pressured by time/money/bosses can be either a blessing or one of the worst things for a project, making things drag and completely lose focus.

Hoping that hasn't happened here, I trust them to deliver a great game,
 
One indicates confidence and shows ideas of where development is heading, the other well... doesn't.
I guess for me that's a lot more "we're on the path, we've shown you as much of the path that we're willing to spoil in this phase, and we're saving the next prepared wave for actual release date."

like, if they had hoped to release by June 2023 — they probably have assets prepared for the lead-up path.

Rather than use what's prepared for pre-release now — making it much less effective when they need it — they're keeping their heads down to round out the rest with the reassurance that they're in the works.

Like to me, the shape of the marketing plan is taking the delay from their hopes as expressed to Xbox into account... but their way of doing that is hunkering down.

but people were furious about the slow burn information well before that, even if it's effective for their cadence.

I'm sure that things came up in polishing and testing. That I have no doubt about. But they planned on that — I'm certain — and it's just taking longer as they adjust around that while weaving any loose ends and good adjustments in.

It's a lot harder to be testing for five plus platforms at once, especially as a small team — they've likely been close but are in that difficult limbo state that can run years past expectation. I've been there on shit much simpler than games.

It's likely they've resolved what bugs they can and are hammering out validation with all the platform-holders, which is a grueling back-and-forth even with just one console. think about how Stardew Valley's update has taken extra months for console even though it's "done"!

so. given all of that — this is a departure, but not a doom and gloom one. it's immediately in line with what we know about the process and where they're at.

a team that spent a lot of time on social would tweet about it, yeah. but that's never really been their style.

if they offer a new character or screenshot — when they want to carefully limit for surprise factor — it takes it out of their launch portfolio (repeated info does worse)

I am damn near certain they have so much ready to share that they're sitting on, waiting for approval and / or final plausibly-resolvable bugs to be handled, and aren't rushing it out to update later like most other teams.

the cadence shift is in keeping with a strategy that matches their style. I really truly don't think it means "it's all over" or "something went awfully wrong." these are, for better or worse, regular steps in the process, taking the time that they take.
 
Except when you have already taken people's money, you're also kinda required to keep backers informed about what you're doing. Silksong is a part of the Hollow Knight Kickstarter - people both backed and bought the game in part of the future Kickstarter promises.
fair enough, but the hollow knight kickstarter was backed by a grand total of 2,158 people and i really don't think they're the ones who are out there acting like they're entitled to updates. the backers are actually getting a whole brand new game for free, when they were originally just promised DLC. i think that's a pretty good trade off for having to wait. not only that, team cherry already waaaay overdelivered on their kickstarter campaign, by adding many of the stretch goals that weren't achieved into the game for free.

i don't want to defend team cherry on this (and i don't think they need defending in the first place), but i'm just confused by some of the reactions here and elsewhere on the internet. it is frustrating if you've been waiting for news on this game, but that's where it should end, frustration. the anger and entitlement coming from some people is getting a bit ridiculous.
 
I guess for me that's a lot more "we're on the path, we've shown you as much of the path that we're willing to spoil in this phase, and we're saving the next prepared wave for actual release date."
I guess? If anything I can respect how much you're able to infer from the lack of communications. It's just hard for me to have much faith in this whole thing when I've seen other game developers completely fall apart due to endless delays; when ~20% of the indies in your steam library are stuck in early access forever because the developer just stopped updating for years, claimed they were working on things and then made one final update declaring bankruptcy (or boredom), it's a bit hard to keep believing that this is all part of some master plan the devs are cooking up.

It also doesn't really change that their communications are particularly terrible though; even if you put aside Toby Fox, someone like Edmund McMillen (who also is working on a game with no clear release date, Mewgenics) is still able to keep talking about his game and assuring people that the work being done on it is actually well, being done. Meanwhile Team Cherrys statements over the past 2 years have both been the absolute minimum, only offer their word for it (rather than having anything to show), were both purely reacting to their fanbase almost deciding to give up on them (that's the only reason they even said anything this year; both their subreddit and their discord started assuming the game was dead because there were no communications at all) and in general make me so ambivalent towards Silksong that I'm mentally in the spot of "I'll probably like it when it's out, but like, never ever announce a game until you're ready to sell it ever again".

Heck, even ConcernedApe was pretty open about why the delays were taking so long; most people are perfectly understanding if the reason Silksong is currently being held up is because of platform holders. Like I can sit here and pull up many other examples of semi-solo devs (except for a few cases, very few indie games are truly solo dev work) who are dealing with systems more complicated than them or facing the reality of how difficult game dev is, and yet all of them do manage to at least ensure that their fanbases aren't turning into rabid lunatics because they're saying jack shit. People are understanding of delays (to an almost absurd degree), but you need to communicate about those things.
 
Team Cherry have every right to take their time and not communicate if they want. We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes in development.

But I also have the right to be annoyed and no longer support them if I don't like how they've been operating.

This is an entertainment product they're presumably trying to sell me. Doing the bare minimum in terms of communication to keep me and others on board would seem to be in their interests. I'm willing to wait for things, but you can't take this piss with the way you go about it. After the Xbox stuff I personally feel like we're past that point by now. It's just tiresome.

Nintendo had it right when they announced that MP4 had restarted development. If you've announced something and your fans are anticipating it, but it threatens to take way longer than expected, just let people have a rough idea of where you're at, that's all we ask. They don't HAVE to, and we're not entitled to anything, but... it's just not much to ask.
 
I don't even think there's a comparison between the waits/communication for Silksong and Prime 4. Silksong has two trailers, and a full demo over the last five years. Prime 4 over seven years has a lone piece of artwork, them saying "We're canning it and starting over with Retro," five years ago, and "We're still working on it" three years ago.
 
I don't even think there's a comparison between the waits/communication for Silksong and Prime 4. Silksong has two trailers, and a full demo over the last five years. Prime 4 over seven years has a lone piece of artwork, them saying "We're canning it and starting over with Retro," five years ago, and "We're still working on it" three years ago.
I think the main difference is how they've managed expectations.

Prime 4 was announced with a CGI logo, nothing more, with "now in development for nintendo switch." Then, when people were first expecting to see it, they announced the restart of development. It's only now that we're reaching the limit of "where is the game," anticipating a reveal soon. The expectation set was "this is a long way away but exists."

Silksong, on the other hand, got revealed with a full fleshed trailer, and soon after a playable demo showcasing multiple areas. I don't know about you, but this sets the expectation of "nearly done." Then they give a release window of a year, which they have now missed by a year, with no clarification of "oh this should be a few months away, we're just polishing" or "we're still a few years out, we've decided to add a bunch more content." So the radio silence leads to speculation for everything, because there's no frame of reference.

On the former, I can understand it taking the time up until now. For the latter, without any reset of expectations By the devs after the reveal, e3 demo, riddles, 1 year announcement, feel's like its perpetually stuck in "almost there" territory.

For me, I'm just tired.
 


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