StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[Vanillalite]

I personally don't think Nintendo will play up the power angle much at all. For example, I don't think "Mario Kart in 4K" is what will make a successful campaign to market Switch 2 or the next Mario Kart game. I expect Nintendo will mention that the console goes up to 4K as one distinguishing factor from Switch, but I figure it'll be a subheader or embedded in a sentence in most marketing materials while the headline will be something we currently don't know.

If the major difference between Switch and Switch 2's hardware is performance and there isn't something unique at the system level that distinguishes them, then I think Nintendo will really have to have some killer exclusive games lined up to get some significant traction outside of the hardcore who aren't already getting their graphics fixes from the more capable PS5, XSX, and gaming PCs. I'm imagining Nintendo's goal is to have another console that sells 100M+, and I think they'd need that irresistible software to hook the families saying "we already have a Nintendo with Mario at home."

However, maybe I'm misreading the average Switch consumer. People upgrade their phones every few years. Perhaps there are a large number of people out there who would want the new one because it exists and their current Switch is old.

It’s more that like other big selling systems such as the PS2 or DS, the Switch user base is a wide swath of players.

I DO think a ton of parents won’t be quick to just rush to pick up another one right away. It also won’t matter cause there will be enough other Switch players ready to make the jump if Nintendo continues to deliver on the software. The people who have had their current systems since pre pandemic might be more ready to jump ahead.

Then once a lot of that base has systems it’ll be a few years in so it won’t be like those same parents are immediately turning around to buy a new system. When 2026 or 2027 rolls around it will have been a few years for everyone who’s bought a switch already.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

even if Switch sucessor have a massive leap, this will not result in a massive increase in assest details, since most of Nintendo franchises follow a cartoony art style, will a massive leap be felt on a Mario/Legend of Zelda game? no it will not

Cartoony or photoreal, smoother edges and less blurry textures are a noticeable and positive change, and it's not the case that one has already hit a ceiling while the other hasn't, especially since things will be seen at higher resolutions than ever before. Super Mario Redacted will see a big increase in asset quality over Odyssey, just as Odyssey does over Galaxy.

Is doing two separate upscales, one a "dumb upscale" from 2.5K to 4K or whatever, really going to result in a better IQ than just using DLSS ultra performance?

I don't think that's the suggestion--but rather that doing something like "1200p with no RT > 4K" could produce a less messy image than "720p with so-so RT > 4K".

 

[Dark Cloud]

I can’t wait to play Super Mario Redacted on the next system.

Just joking around haha

 

[lieeiusex]

I think it's currently too risky to include very unique designs on the Switch successor, with mobile devices being so small, anything too fancy can have an impact on device reliability, and if the new "gimmick" isn't as popular as expected, there's no room for modification. On the other hand, there are a lot of new generations of Nintendo gamers out there who aren't necessarily expecting a new major function.
Adopting Labo and Ring Fit Adventure is a much safer approach, with the Switch successor just needing to iterate on performance and slightly add some sensors to the new joycon. That way, with accessories like Labo and Fitness rings, Nintendo has more leeway to show off all sorts of different ideas. And if these new gameplay ideas with accessories don't work well, the Switch successor itself can still be promoted with more performance.
The difficulty of third-party development also needs to be taken into account, rather than expecting them to adapt new gameplay ideas, they should be given a no-hassle environment to develop in.

 

[fwd-bwd]

Whether the Switch NG will introduce any new gimmicks, I have absolutely no idea. That said, I don’t think the latest Furukawa interview with the NHK indicated that there’s any sort of mandate for “new ways to play”.

Unless the CEO of your publicly-traded company is a billionaire edgelord, their press quotes are measured and fine-tuned for institutional investors and security analysts. They certainly are not dog-whistling signaling anything to the fans through these documented remarks. With that in mind, let’s look at the NHK quote again (machine translation with my edits):

We are not focusing on any particular technologies at the moment, but we are conducting various research and development on the latest technologies. Rather than pursuing the latest technologies, what is very important to our company is how the gameplay itself will change when we introduce a new technology. If we are convinced that our customers will experience a fresh surprise by adopting this technology, we will research it voraciously and invest when necessary.

These are not the type of languages to tantalize enthusiasts with “new gameplays”, but a firm communication to investors and analysts “stop asking us about VR, metaverse, NFTs, or any latest get-rich-quick technologies” or expecting us to launch a new console “focusing on [these] particular technologies”. We are not Ubisoft or Square Enix, thank you very much.

This has been their product strategy in recent years, and the talking point was repeated in many occasions.

Furukawa on metaverse (2023):

But though we sense its potential, we also believe it will not be easy to clearly define what kinds of fun and surprises it can provide to consumers. We might consider something if we can find a way to express it with a Nintendo like approach – which is to say, one that is easily understood by many consumers – but I believe that this would be difficult at the present time.

Furukawa when asked about NFT and metaverse (2022):

But at this point in time, there is no easy way to define specifically what kinds of surprises and enjoyment the metaverse can deliver to our consumers. As a company that provides entertainment, our main emphasis is on ways to deliver fresh surprises and fun to our consumers. We might consider something if we can find a way to convey a “Nintendo approach” to the metaverse that many people can readily understand, but we do not think that is the situation at the present time.

Note that he pointedly ignored the NFT inquiry.

Lavoué on VR (Nintendo France Managing Director, 2018):

If you look at VR headsets, I doubt they can appeal to the mainstream. Consumers are not patient with entertainment if you’re not able to deliver an all-inclusive package. […] And what novelty would we bring compared to our competitors? If we do the exact same thing than everyone else, we’re bound to die because we are smaller than them.

Miyamoto on VR (2016):

But we want families to play together, and virtual reality (which requires players to be closed off from the real world) doesn’t really fit well there. We also like people playing for a long time, and it’s hard to do that in VR.

Fils-Aime on AR/VR (2015):

For Nintendo, we always go beyond the tech to make sure that the experiences we do are fun and they’re social, and I think those are the two key opportunities today on the VR/AR space. Are they both fun and social? I don’t think that’s there yet. […] We’re going to continue to do our own internal experiments, but we don’t believe it’s ready for prime time yet.

Miyamoto when asked about virtual reality (2015):

We’re quite interested in it, but at the same time, Nintendo’s philosophy is that we create products that are going to be played with everyone in the living room. And we don’t feel that virtual reality is a good fit for that philosophy.

This is not to say that Nintendo will never go full tilt into metaverse, VR, Web3, or whatever tech bubble du jour is. Some of these quotes are quite old after all. They however do signify a consistent philosophy governing their approach to new technologies, and as late as Aug. 3, Furukawa was still saying that Nintendo isn’t focusing on any specific new technologies. So if the Switch NG is to come with a new hook/gimmick, I think it wouldn’t be a big swing that some may be hoping for, but smaller/simpler techs which Nintendo is able to make “surprising and fun”.

 

[Terrell]

"The Switch you love, made better in every possible way" is all that needs to be said from a marketing standpoint, when one considers how it's STILL selling. And I believe the interpretation by @fwd-bwd is likely a correct one. And using that interpretation, while I am sure there will be iterative changes and minor new additions, Switch is still the ideal method for their content delivery to deliver "surprises and enjoyment". We're in year 7 and there's still plenty of gas in the Switch tank as it is, so delivering a new but VERY similar platform merely to extend Nintendo's long-term viability to deliver their own and 3rd-party experiences should be all that is currently necessary. Anything else, which will be delivered at minimal cost increase to hardware, will be a bonus, not a corporate mandate.

One thing we definetly need back in the next system is the chad Wii U Pro Controller's battery life.

80 hours was insane.

I had to charge that king maybe 3 times a year tops.

Switch Pro Controller is using a 3DS battery to get 40 hours transmitting via Bluetooth 4.1.

Bluetooth 5 is pretty well all but assured for the next hardware (for some reason, likely cheaper part cost, the Lite actually already has BT5 capability in its Wi-Fi/BT combo chip) and a new Pro Controller with BT5 receiver chip means it will benefit greatly from the same power-saving tech in BT5. So they could do nothing but change the Bluetooth receiver chip and get another 10-20 hours out of the Pro Controller battery, more than likely.

So good news, you'll likely get your wish either way!

 

[Wockio]

Posted on a fake 4chan leak thread

 

[Goblin_knight]

Posted on a fake 4chan leak thread

Its just another shitpost in a sea of shitposts in yet another fake Switch 2 leak thread which there are hundreds of on that site. Completely disregard it LOL

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Long read, you are warned, TL;DR at end maybe?:


Possible that switch 2 is to the switch what the GameBoy Advance was to the GameBoy/Color line.

A refined and polished platform.

I’m unsure what the unique Element of those GameBoy systems (all) was though, it only offered portable play to my knowledge. Though I guess since no one else was really doing that it was fine. There were other platforms at the time, like the WonderSwan and the GameGear and whatnot, but the GameBoy line was quite successful. It ceased when they had a competitor enter the portable atmosphere that they ruled over.



But then now you have that again, only one actual major portable platform with other smaller platforms in the pool, but none that would comes close to the size and notoriety of the Switch family of systems.

So it doesn’t seem like they are pressed to create a DS (Nintendo DSiXL my beloved) moment to garner better attention against a potentially fierce competitor. I’ll explain why…


Sony is releasing a portable device that will be used for playing games of course, however it’s for an incredibly small niche that doesn’t register for the scope Nintendo would be operating in, so it may be a wash in their eyes due to the Popularity of Cloud gaming in general.

There are Smartphones however that would need to be accounted for, these outsell and will outsell anything Nintendo produces in a year or two. What Nintendo would take 7 years to do, smartphones would take significantly less and there is a gaming audience available on those platforms. Games such as Genshin Impact make an incredible amount, Honkai Star Rails makes a lot, CoD Mobile is another popular game.

Perhaps if they garner the interest of “this can do that but better, same format, and has other goodies” it would be used to their benefit. Smartphones won’t outpace Drake by any notable degree for several years, so it’ll have a hard time even emulating it. Unless Drake is incredibly slow and low in performance but that’s anyone’s guess.

Portable PCs are geared for a specific niche of enthusiasts that prefer portable gaming (and other things) in a method that’s easily configurable. AMD is able to offer APUs that perform really well and at a nice and reasonable power envelope to which it makes it permissible. There’s dozens of Indie startups meant for this and the biggest of these portable PCs comes from Valve, aka the Steam Deck. Steam Deck eclipses these smaller startups in popularity and selling power. However, unless you enjoy tinkering with settings to get your desired quality, these devices aren’t for you. Hence a niche of enthusiasts.



Quite honestly, you can eliminate multiple elements that could push for them to change the wheel in order to gain attention…. If we ignore the elephant that exists in the room.


The Nintendo Switch is a bit of a problem, Nintendo would need to address the pressing issues of that console that by the time the new system releases, would have sold >145M units.

They would also have to give something that gives a sense of freshness over the previous platform.

And the system occupies the slot of “Home Console” for Nintendo even if it is a Portable Console. So while it is already different to the expected river flow of the PS and the XBox systems, aka they flow the same, the switch offers a different avenue.

Tip it too much in one direction that it is alien, and they get something new and fresh but is it too new and fresh? Does it alienate the massive consumer base? Simply playing games is not enough, playing the old great games is also not the only factor in this equation.

Barely tip it and the only major offer being “better faster system” and you end up with a scenario that you aren’t sure how much your audience actually cares for that or, if they feel like it’s a worthy upgrade all around. If it’s too similar, they won’t see much of a reason especially as they don’t tout performance that much for their selling point in their products. Part of this is due to the fact that they don’t know how to make “way stronger system with all these features and whistles!!!!” interesting without backfiring for them later on.

They’ll need to address it elegantly.

Performance isn’t a high bar really since it’s coming from the switch. It’s what most people see when they first open it, it’s what the software (games) do with the hardware that goes “Woooah! Wait whaaat?? That’s sooo cool! Huhhhh?! Wow!! Aahhhhh, just what I need” or something.

This is the Joycons most likely, the tablet and the dock can be altered in a way that looks really interesting while still keeping its core element: a tablet and a dock for outputting for a TV


Joycons though? Those are able to add while still keeping the basics of a controller.

But this is simply me speculating.


TL;DR?: Simply put, the switch is a “problem” in the sense that they have a big console that is popular and they need to usurp it. There are other portable console like devices, even Sony is releasing one but this is like the WonderSwan and GameGear to the GameBoy family, ie, not relevant to Nintendo so they won’t care, and I am not sure how far APUs will go in performance in the next couple of years for it to be a concern, aka I am not sure if there will be APUs on the market doing 10-20TFLOPs and have 8-16 Cores for 16-32 threads or run at +4GHz in a portable form factor unless they try really hard especially to emulate the Switch 2… I mean they got Phoenix but that’s not as efficient as the Van Gogh…but… well whatever, I think this point is clear.

And these are super niche anyway, they are not for the mass market and won’t be doing too much like with the switch that was broken into and emulated.

The switch and switch 2 are and will be different from the other popular consoles from Microsoft and Sony so it already checks a check mark on a list of “stand out or death”.

Smartphones would be more of a concern, but even at the pace they evolve, they won’t be the same as the switch was in 2017 and will be behind in performance for many years probably for like ever where it matters. They will have something that pulls in people that play those intensive games as a “superior place”, rather than using on phones, it’ll be a smaller platform but also a cheaper platform for a good experience. Portable but also better. People forget, but even though you can get high performance on phones for these intensive mobile games, you seriously need to spend for that. Low end phones struggle here.

And finally, well? I think I addressed it in the TL;DR beginning, they need to have something that is just right.



Switch is the equivalent to the PlayStation 1, Switch 2 will be the equivalent to the PlayStation 2 or the equivalent to the XBox One to the 360. If they do it right, the selling potential will absolutely soar high. Really high.

If they miss it, it’ll decline. I mean, even if it declines in the same metric, it’ll still be around 100M. But, it’s a careful game and they need to balance it.


(Worst TL;DR ever, I know I’m sorry)

 

[Multiverse]

A.I should be the new gimmick. It is exploding right now. DLSS is A.I. We know that’s part of the new Switch. The marketing should lean into that.

They could also implement ChatGPT or similar Large Language Model (custom self-built or 3rd party) on an OS level for the new Switch. Or even build a game around it.

 

[Eclissi]

How much hope do we have of robust leaks from the GDC?

 

[Thombias]

Ah, something's bouncing around in my head and I must type it down.

So, sometimes we mention, 'Hey, there'll be some PS5-generation games that can be theoretically cut down in assorted ways to get ported to the NG". Usually it's in these general terms; no particular games or examples of modifications. So I figure, occasionally during downtimes, it'd be interesting to shoot the breeze about specific games.

Granted, it's probably too early for this, so this really falls under the category of "File it away, and pull it back out during later downtime in the thread", but the talk of the town right is Baldur's Gate 3. It would be neat to eventually get a NG port, wouldn't it? Not like Larian's ideologically opposed since there's Divinity: Original Sin II. (also, no, I'm not playing it; my PC's not up to snuff. Nor do I have a PS5. My interest in a theoretical NG port is therefore at least partially selfish )
For those who missed it, I did write up a kneejerk reaction to benchmarks/performance review.
And towards the end, I shoehorned in this:


My question to the thread, particularly those playing through the game right now (some of you are, right!?):
Let's say the decision gets made to try to port it to the NG. What kind of changes/cuts do you think would be necessary to make it possible? What sort of tricks do you have in mind?

And if we can't get much going just yet, this can always be revisited in a month or two as long as BG 3 is still hot stuff
(at least it adds something to the list of reoccurring conversation topics!)

Well, realistically speaking it's 100% safe to assume Baldur's Gate 3 will not be released on a physical cart on the Switch 2. The PC version is already ~90GB in size and when the download was finished on Steam it had to compile another 30GB worth of shaders seperately on my system. I don't know how all of this could be scaled down to fit on a 64GB cart. (which will likely be the highest storage carts available on Switch 2) I guess we'll have to wait for the PS5 version to see how much data of it are just the different texture resolutions and effects for the usual PC graphics customization.

But storage issues aside the game will very likely be able to run on the Switch 2, it's not as resource intensive as many might think. The game is slow, the camera usually on a top-down view (atleast on PC) so not much to render at once. The combat is turn based, so not much CPU resources needed for AI and such and there aren't many effects going on at the same time for the most part (unless you do things like setting up traps for enemies with a bunch of explosives). I can hold 100-120fps pretty consistently on my Ryzen 5600X & RTX 3060 Ti build while having DLSS enabled on performance mode at 1440p. I think Switch 2 will be able to run medium settings at native 1080p 30fps just fine, or maybe even at 1440p with DLSS performance mode, but of course still 30fps.

It's worth mentioning that i was only able to tell the amount of storage used for shader compilations because the Steam download progress actively showed it to me after it finished the 90GB download. I haven't played a DX11 game in years so i don't know if this is normal behavior but if it is, then i'm glad the game wasn't developed on DX12 because that API is utter GARBAGE. DX11 just works, no shader compilation stutters and performance issues in general to speak of. It's super refreshing after all these DX12 UE4 Triple-A dumpsterfire PC ports over the last few years.

Okay i might've gone off-topic a little there, but i just needed to let that last part out.

 

[Pennington]

I'm betting on Nintendo replacing physical buttons with haptics and virtual on-screen buttons and merging the joy con tech with the console body. That gives a lot of novelty and game design possibilities with each game having a tailored set of inputs. It unifies the device, thereby reducing parts, cost and physical failure points (ie joy con drift). I also think they could stream directly to a dongle behind the TV or maybe directly to it, effectively cutting out the dock middleman and giving the console more versatility in which room setups it can accommodate. All these changes (removing physical buttons, combining controller with console, rethinking the dock concept) contribute to an impression of paring back and integrating, which would make such a device easily distinguishable from the old Switch, while still continuing with its hybrid concept.

 

[Hermii]

A.I should be the new gimmick. It is exploding right now. DLSS is A.I. We know that’s part of the new swicth. The marketing should lean into that.

They could also implement ChatGPT or similar Large Language Model (custom self-built or 3rd party) on an OS level for the new switch. Or even build a game around it.

I don't think they're going to market DLSS, in the end it's just another optimization trick. A great one, but still.

 

[Vantell]

How much hope do we have of robust leaks from the GDC?

GDC or Gamescom?

 

[Bonejack]

On the topic of cross-gen games, the example with MP 4 is less like Nintendo saying "Due to the dev restart, plan and develop this game also with ReDraketed ind mind", but more like "Okay this releases so late on Switch, make sure it runs and looks good there, and then make it look a bit better on the next system, we might as well release it on both."

Found this meme on Discord and I have to say, I relate to the North American River Otter a lot.

Do we expect Switch 2nd Gig to have the same semiconductors as the Switch 1 or does it not matter?

Otters have one advantage over us here though. I bet neither of us knows how to open shellfish shells with rocks on their belly.

I sure as heck don't know.

They were never going to announce it at Gamescom. No one expected them to do so. Nintendo's presence at Gamescom is minimal -- in terms of show presence and even media meetings.

The only info that will come with Gamescom in relation to Switch 2 is what media hear in discussion with dev/pub partners via private discussions.

As a Gamescom "veteran", also having been in enough business area closed meetings stuff there, i tried to tell the people, but they never listened.

Deckard Cain mode

Seriously, german NoE branch always treats Gamescon as nothing but a big advertisment for their current line-up. Wouldn't be surprised if even Everybody 1-2-Switch has a big presence at their booth.

If there's anything "Nintendo announcement" related to Gamescom, it's going to be an Indie Showcase around the Gamescom time, not at Gamescom though.

GDC or Gamescom?

If i'm not missing any recent news, there hasn't been a GDC in Europe (which was in the same week as Gamescom back then) since ... 2016, i think?

 

[Armoured_Bear]

even if Switch sucessor have a massive leap, this will not result in a massive increase in assest details, since most of Nintendo franchises follow a cartoony art style, will a massive leap be felt on a Mario/Legend of Zelda game? no it will not, only more stable 30/60fps will be felt, no OMG, look how good the water textures is on the next 3D Mario/Legend of Zelda

You really, really should look at the likes of Ratchet and Clank and Sackboy's Adventure on PS5.

The "only realistic games benefit from powerful hardware" is complete and utter nonsense, I've no idea why it keeps appearing.

 

[Pokemaniac]

These cross-gen discussions are admittedly weird to see if Nintendo's history is anything to go by. They've literally never had a real cross-gen period in any of their home consoles, let alone their handhelds where we were actually given original titles for a couple of months rather than downgraded versions from their next generation offerings. I don't see any reason for this to change, especially when considering the power jump we're dealing with.

This take is sort of missing the forest for the trees. Nintendo is known to keep releases for their systems going for as long as the audience is there and they are able, regardless of if they're handhelds or home consoles. Sometimes, this results in true "cross-gen" releases, but historically these have been limited by the realities of releasing games across multiple systems of widely divergent capabilities. Apply that trend to an environment where they may not even have to port the games to the more powerful system to leverage its power (and even if they do, the majority of their existing code should work as is), and it creates a "cross-gen period" where functionally everything that's still releasing on the older system is also contributing to the newer one's library.

 

[OniLgnd]

I'm sorry but I really hope that Nintendo doesn't do anything with VR. I still think there is a lot of potential with VR, but the PSVR2 has really proven that the interest is just not there yet for most people. I don't know what it is going to take for VR to get broad appeal, but I don't think it is happening anytime soon, and I would hate for Nintendo to invest time into something that doesn't have proven staying power.

 

[Pokemaniac]

A.I should be the new gimmick. It is exploding right now. DLSS is A.I. We know that’s part of the new swicth. The marketing should lean into that.

They could also implement ChatGPT or similar Large Language Model (custom self-built or 3rd party) on an OS level for the new switch. Or even build a game around it.

DLSS is not something Nintendo is ever going to mention by name outside of talks at developer conferences. If it's doing its job, it shouldn't be noticed.

Also, ignoring, for a moment, the complete lack of utility of a system level LLM, those are usually run on server grade hardware for a reason. The first L stands for "large".

 

[maidhhc]

It's funny to remember how convinced most of us were several years ago that this was coming out very! soon!

If only we knew then that it would be late 2024

 

[Dude_lookinatleak]

A.I should be the new gimmick. It is exploding right now. DLSS is A.I. We know that’s part of the new swicth. The marketing should lean into that.

They could also implement ChatGPT or similar Large Language Model (custom self-built or 3rd party) on an OS level for the new switch. Or even build a game around it.

IMAGINE an Animal Crossing game with ChatGPT integration!

 

[abcfsk]

IMAGINE an Animal Crossing game with ChatGPT integration!

It would be a disaster, yeah

 

[Eclissi]

GDC or Gamescom?

Gamescom, sorry.

Not announcement, sure.

But leaks?

 

[Mildudon]

But storage issues aside the game will very likely be able to run on the Switch 2, it's not as resource intensive as many might think. The game is slow, the camera usually on a top-down view (atleast on PC) so not much to render at once. The combat is turn based, so not much CPU resources needed for AI and such and there aren't many effects going on at the same time for the most part (unless you do things like setting up traps for enemies with a bunch of explosives). I can hold 100-120fps pretty consistently on my Ryzen 5600X & RTX 3060 Ti build while having DLSS enabled on performance mode at 1440p. I think Switch 2 will be able to run medium settings at native 1080p 30fps just fine, or maybe even at 1440p with DLSS performance mode, but of course still 30fps.

 

[Thombias]

So? Witcher 3 exists on Switch.

 

[IamPeacock]

I'm sorry but I really hope that Nintendo doesn't do anything with VR. I still think there is a lot of potential with VR, but the PSVR2 has really proven that the interest is just not there yet for most people. I don't know what it is going to take for VR to get broad appeal, but I don't think it is happening anytime soon, and I would hate for Nintendo to invest time into something that doesn't have proven staying power.

I agree.

I'm very into VR because of the immersion and I do believe it has the potential to go mainstream (not replacing flatscreen gaming. But the tech isn't quite there yet for Nintendo.

We need smaller headsets that are comfortable to wear and faster hardware.
VR is very demanding and needs strong hardware.

You can't have TotK on a mobile chipset in VR.

 

[Multiverse]

DLSS is not something Nintendo is ever going to mention by name outside of talks at developer conferences. If it's doing its job, it shouldn't be noticed.

Also, ignoring, for a moment, the complete lack of utility of a system level LLM, those are usually run on server grade hardware for a reason. The first L stands for "large".

The new switch has no internet confirmed? I meant OS level not just hardware. It could pull stuff from the cloud as well doing it on-device.

A.I assisted guides on a system level. Trivia, facts, guides about any games on your device. The eshop should have recommendation system based on the games you‘ve played. There are so many implementations of AI even outside of LLM.

I‘m sure Nintendo can come out with something even better than this. These are just some of the ideas off the top on my head rn.

I’m saying A.I because that’s the only “gimmick” that is commercially viable and marketable to the masses right now certainly 1000x more than something like VR.

 

[ILikeFeet]

You really, really should look at the likes of Ratchet and Clank and Sackboy's Adventure on PS5.

The "only realistic games benefit from powerful hardware" is complete and utter nonsense, I've no idea why it keeps appearing.

People constantly mistake what they can see (the lack of polygons and "detailed" textures) and mistake that for absence of increased fidelity.

 

[kvetcha]

So? Witcher 3 exists on Switch.

Nevertheless, the game in its current state is bending over the most powerful PC CPUs on the market. So your statements re: the game being light on CPU because the combat is turn based don’t really hold water.

The real interesting data point will be seeing how PS5 holds up in these areas.

 

[Bait02]

I'm sorry but I really hope that Nintendo doesn't do anything with VR. I still think there is a lot of potential with VR, but the PSVR2 has really proven that the interest is just not there yet for most people. I don't know what it is going to take for VR to get broad appeal, but I don't think it is happening anytime soon, and I would hate for Nintendo to invest time into something that doesn't have proven staying power.

There are fair reasons not to want Nintendo to do anything with VR but I don't think PSVR2 is one of them.
PSVR 2 has only proven there is no interest for a 600$ device on top of a 500$ device without a clear long-term release roadmap or any killer app.

 

[Thombias]

Nevertheless, the game in its current state is bending over the most powerful PC CPUs on the market. So your statements re: the game being light on CPU because the combat is turn based don’t really hold water.

The real interesting data point will be seeing how PS5 holds up in these areas.

Truth be told, i am very slow in this game and only close to reaching Act 2 after 40ish hours, i'm just taking my time with things but also my work naturally takes away a lot of my free time, motivation and energy so i essentially can only play during weekends. But based on what i've read from many users on Reddit is that later acts don't seem to be as optimized as Act 1, and a bunch of posts from users were saying that Act 3 feels rushed even.

It won't stop me from playing through the game, but to be honest, this whole situation kinda screams Witcher 3 launch to me. That game was also terribly optimized at launch on consoles and only got much better over the years after many patches. Looking at how actively Larian Studios has been patching the game since the PC release (There's already 4 patches!) i think it's safe to say that Baldur's Gate 3 will be very stable and performant in a year or so.

If there's enough demand, i can totally see a Switch 2 port happening by the time they improved the performance of the later acts on PC and PS5 so a Switch 2 port becomes more possible. It'll probably be made by a different studio, Saber Interactive comes to mind who did the Witcher 3 Switch port but i can also see Panic Button (Doom Eternal + a few others) doing it as well. This will likely be years after the game's original PC release though.

My point is, a BG3 Switch 2 port shouldn't be turned down just because it seems unrealistic based on how badly a late game part performs at launch on a wildly different architecture. The Switch has gotten plenty of ports that we assumed would be impossible on these specs & architecture and yet here we are with games such as Doom 2016 & Eternal, Wolfenstein 2 & Youngblood, Witcher 3, No Man's Sky, Dying Light and Hellblade all running on an underpowered Nintendo handheld hybrid. Yes the graphical quality of these ports is debatable, but that doesn't change the fact it IS possible if your throw enough money, time and most importantly talent at it.

 

[kvetcha]

Truth be told, i am very slow in this game and only close to reaching Act 2 after 40ish hours, i'm just taking my time with things but also my work naturally takes away a lot of my free time, motivation and energy so i essentially can only play during weekends. But based on what i've read from many users on Reddit is that later acts don't seem to be as optimized as Act 1, and a bunch of posts from users were saying that Act 3 feels rushed even.

It won't stop me from playing through the game, but to be honest, this whole situation kinda screams Witcher 3 launch to me. That game was also terribly optimized at launch on consoles and only got much better over the years after many patches. Looking at how actively Larian Studios has been patching the game since the PC release (There's already 4 patches!) i think it's safe to say that Baldur's Gate 3 will be very stable and performant in a year or so.

If there's enough demand, i can totally see a Switch 2 port happening by the time they improved the performance of the later acts on PC and PS5 so a Switch 2 port becomes more possible. It'll probably be made by a different studio, Saber Interactive comes to mind who did the Witcher 3 Switch port but i can also see Panic Button (Doom Eternal + a few others) doing it as well. This will likely be years after the game's original PC release though.

My point is, a BG3 Switch 2 port shouldn't be turned down just because it seems unrealistic based on how badly a late game part performs at launch on a wildly different architecture. The Switch has gotten plenty of ports that we assumed would be impossible on these specs & architecture and yet here we are with games such as Doom 2016 & Eternal, Wolfenstein 2 & Youngblood, Witcher 3, No Man's Sky, Dying Light and Hellblade all running on an underpowered Nintendo handheld hybrid. Yes the graphical quality of these ports is debatable, but that doesn't change the fact it IS possible if your throw enough money, time and most importantly talent at it.

I agree we’ll likely see it on the next Switch, I was just pushing back a little on the idea of the game not being demanding, at least in its current state.

 

[LemonLime]

IMAGINE an Animal Crossing game with ChatGPT integration!

Aw man, Tom Nook called me a slur…

 

[Link_enfant]

Posted on a fake 4chan leak thread

If it doesn't launch next year then it's for this year and they're going to take everyone by surprise.
Prepare for an imminent reveal.


Yes, I'm out.

 

[quelseydilla]

A.I should be the new gimmick. It is exploding right now. DLSS is A.I. We know that’s part of the new swicth. The marketing should lean into that.

They could also implement ChatGPT or similar Large Language Model (custom self-built or 3rd party) on an OS level for the new switch. Or even build a game around it.

Firstly, I don't think the current usage boom of AI has been commercially viable long enough for Nintendo to even consider integration into the console itself.

Secondly, AI has a lot of ethical questions as to what data it's trained from, but also whether it's usage takes jobs away from other creators. I know Blizzard has gotten mixed responses to their patent/plans to use AI.

Will AI be implemented in some way(s) eventually? Probably, but man I kinda hope not. Personally, at least.

 

[mjayer]

If it doesn't launch next year then it's for this year and they're going to take everyone by surprise.
Prepare for an imminent reveal.


Yes, I'm out.

To be fair, I just can't see this thing launching in 2025 and not be a big L for Nintendo. Dragging their feet for that long? Seems like business malpractice imo.

 

[Multiverse]

Firstly, I don't think the current usage boom of AI has been commercially viable long enough for Nintendo to even consider integration into the console itself.

Secondly, AI has a lot of ethical questions as to what data it's trained from, but also whether it's usage takes jobs away from other creators. I know Blizzard has gotten mixed responses to their patent/plans to use AI.

Will AI be implemented in some way(s) eventually? Probably, but man I kinda hope not. Personally, at least.

Should we raise "ethical concerns" about DLSS? Do we even know where the images it was trained on are from? Should Nintendo not use DLSS due to “ethical reasons”?

If they are willing to use DLSS, I don’t see why they wouldn’t use the others.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Should we raise "ethical concerns" about DLSS? Do we even know where the images it was trained on are from? Should Nintendo not use DLSS due to “ethical reasons”?

If they are willing to use DLSS, I don’t see why they wouldn’t use the others.

yes we do. they're trained on 16K renderers of the games

Firstly, I don't think the current usage boom of AI has been commercially viable long enough for Nintendo to even consider integration into the console itself.

Secondly, AI has a lot of ethical questions as to what data it's trained from, but also whether it's usage takes jobs away from other creators. I know Blizzard has gotten mixed responses to their patent/plans to use AI.

Will AI be implemented in some way(s) eventually? Probably, but man I kinda hope not. Personally, at least.

the biggest problem with AI like ChatGPT in games is that it's not exactly controlled. people talk about the good spontaneous moments, but the problem for developers is that they can't be recreated, causing people to miss moments. and then there's the feedback loop when you start training models on generated content. it doesn't turn out well, to say the least

 

[ProngoLuvr]

AI-generated game guides and trivia sound like a disaster waiting to happen imo. LLMs like ChatGPT aren't primarily designed to give you factural information; their main purpose is just to write like a real person would. Google would probably be more useful for guides and trivia than a Nintendo AI ever could be, anyway.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Posted on a fake 4chan leak thread

Next system's "code name" has not been revealed to NOA

I guess in internal discussions NOA just has to make up names like we have been.

I don't know how all of this could be scaled down to fit on a 64GB cart. (which will likely be the highest storage carts available on Switch 2)

64GB is already possible on Switch. If any of the reports of using a new media are true, surely it's not ONLY about speed.

I'm betting on Nintendo replacing physical buttons with haptics and virtual on-screen buttons and merging the joy con tech with the console body. That gives a lot of novelty and game design possibilities with each game having a tailored set of inputs. It unifies the device, thereby reducing parts, cost and physical failure points (ie joy con drift).

I don't think an entire console body haptic touch screen advanced enough that most people don't automatically hate it compared to buttons is going to be a cost saver.

 

[ILikeFeet]

AI-generated game guides and trivia sound like a disaster waiting to happen imo. LLMs like ChatGPT aren't primarily designed to give you factural information; their main purpose is just to write like a real person would. Google would probably be more useful for guides and trivia than a Nintendo AI ever could be, anyway.

ain't even gotta wait

 

[Mobius]

ain't even gotta wait

Those answers are so corny

 

[Thraktor]

Ah, something's bouncing around in my head and I must type it down.

So, sometimes we mention, 'Hey, there'll be some PS5-generation games that can be theoretically cut down in assorted ways to get ported to the NG". Usually it's in these general terms; no particular games or examples of modifications. So I figure, occasionally during downtimes, it'd be interesting to shoot the breeze about specific games.

Granted, it's probably too early for this, so this really falls under the category of "File it away, and pull it back out during later downtime in the thread", but the talk of the town right is Baldur's Gate 3. It would be neat to eventually get a NG port, wouldn't it? Not like Larian's ideologically opposed since there's Divinity: Original Sin II. (also, no, I'm not playing it; my PC's not up to snuff. Nor do I have a PS5. My interest in a theoretical NG port is therefore at least partially selfish )
For those who missed it, I did write up a kneejerk reaction to benchmarks/performance review.
And towards the end, I shoehorned in this:


My question to the thread, particularly those playing through the game right now (some of you are, right!?):
Let's say the decision gets made to try to port it to the NG. What kind of changes/cuts do you think would be necessary to make it possible? What sort of tricks do you have in mind?

And if we can't get much going just yet, this can always be revisited in a month or two as long as BG 3 is still hot stuff
(at least it adds something to the list of reoccurring conversation topics!)

I'd say there's a reasonable chance of Switch NG getting Baldur's Gate 3. On the GPU side of things the game isn't all that demanding, relatively speaking. With everything maxed out at native 4K with DLAA I can get around 45fps on an RTX 3070, and I'm getting a solid 60fps with the same settings on DLSS quality mode (I think 70fps+ if I disable the frame rate cap). With significantly lowered settings and internal resolution I wouldn't be surprised to see it hit 30fps on Switch NG, which is fine for a game like that.

The CPU side would probably be trickier, as it reportedly gets quite CPU intensive in the third act, which I haven't got to yet. I believe this is due to the AI workload of so many NPCs, so I wonder if it's possible to run this asynchronously from rendering, running AI updates less frequently while keeping the rendered frame rate smooth.

 

[quelseydilla]

Those answers are so corny

This has been a Hairspray reference

 

[D36]

Otters have one advantage over us here though. I bet neither of us knows how to open shellfish shells with rocks on their belly.

I sure as heck don't know.

Give me a rock and a clam and I'll show those otters who's boss!

 

[D36]

Whatever Mario game we get for Switch 2 is gonna hit real different after Martinet stepping down.

 

[Lancelot]

This take is sort of missing the forest for the trees. Nintendo is known to keep releases for their systems going for as long as the audience is there and they are able, regardless of if they're handhelds or home consoles. Sometimes, this results in true "cross-gen" releases, but historically these have been limited by the realities of releasing games across multiple systems of widely divergent capabilities. Apply that trend to an environment where they may not even have to port the games to the more powerful system to leverage its power (and even if they do, the majority of their existing code should work as is), and it creates a "cross-gen period" where functionally everything that's still releasing on the older system is also contributing to the newer one's library.

That's the thing, most of those releases Nintendo likes to keep going are not downgraded versions from next gen titles, they don't really do that past giving you backwards compatibility to keep running what's left in the tank of the existing console. I personally don't see a reason for this to change beyond the occasional remaster and paid upgrade. Their studios have moved on for the most part, like they always do.

 

[Thraktor]

Ah, something's bouncing around in my head and I must type it down.

So, sometimes we mention, 'Hey, there'll be some PS5-generation games that can be theoretically cut down in assorted ways to get ported to the NG". Usually it's in these general terms; no particular games or examples of modifications. So I figure, occasionally during downtimes, it'd be interesting to shoot the breeze about specific games.

Granted, it's probably too early for this, so this really falls under the category of "File it away, and pull it back out during later downtime in the thread", but the talk of the town right is Baldur's Gate 3. It would be neat to eventually get a NG port, wouldn't it? Not like Larian's ideologically opposed since there's Divinity: Original Sin II. (also, no, I'm not playing it; my PC's not up to snuff. Nor do I have a PS5. My interest in a theoretical NG port is therefore at least partially selfish )
For those who missed it, I did write up a kneejerk reaction to benchmarks/performance review.
And towards the end, I shoehorned in this:


My question to the thread, particularly those playing through the game right now (some of you are, right!?):
Let's say the decision gets made to try to port it to the NG. What kind of changes/cuts do you think would be necessary to make it possible? What sort of tricks do you have in mind?

And if we can't get much going just yet, this can always be revisited in a month or two as long as BG 3 is still hot stuff
(at least it adds something to the list of reoccurring conversation topics!)

I'd say there's a reasonable chance of Switch NG getting Baldur's Gate 3. On the GPU side of things the game isn't all that demanding, relatively speaking. With everything maxed out at native 4K with DLAA I can get around 45fps on an RTX 3070, and I'm getting a solid 60fps with the same settings on DLSS quality mode (I think 70fps+ if I disable the frame rate cap). With significantly lowered settings and internal resolution I wouldn't be surprised to see it hit 30fps on Switch NG, which is fine for a game like that.

The CPU side would probably be trickier, as it reportedly gets quite CPU intensive in the third act, which I haven't got to yet. I believe this is due to the AI workload of so many NPCs, so I wonder if it's possible to run this asynchronously from rendering, running AI updates less frequently while keeping the rendered frame rate smooth.

Actually, I realised that this is a good opportunity to test out Intel's new Presentmon performance capture tool. I just did a few quick tests of BG3 under some different settings, which are relatively positive on the GPU front. Here are the clock speeds and GPU busy times reported for the different settings:

4K Low - 1800MHz - 12.2ms
4K Medium - 1780MHz - 16.2ms
4K High - 1770MHz - 18.5ms
4K Ultra - 1780MHz - 19.2ms

If we were to assume Switch NG's GPU was running at 1.1GHz in docked mode, and rendering at 1080p internal, then a crude pixels-per-Tflop comparison would indicate a GPU time of 19.1ms on the low setting, which is well within the realm of 30fps. Even Ultra would come to 29.8ms, although this is excluding the time taken for DLSS, and again is a very crude calculation in the first place (not to mention the scene I used to benchmark may be nowhere near the most intensive in the game). Still, I think it would be reasonable to expect somewhere between low to medium settings would be viable on Switch NG at 30fps with a 1080p internal resolution and DLSS up to 4K or thereabouts. CPU is still a different matter, though.

 

[Deleted member 5146]

Whatever Mario game we get for Switch 2 is gonna hit real different after Martinet stepping down.

If they're going in the direction of a cinematic universe - which it looks like they are - I can see them consolidating the software and wider media sides by sharing the voice actors, so maybe it's likely that the next 3D Mario features the Super Mario Bros. 2023 cast

On a side note, when that Zelda movie comes out, it would be incredibly disappointing not to have Matt Mercer as the Big G